Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Bowdz said:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/7926723/1

All hope abandon ye who enter here.
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...........

ibx3X3Rz8aGgX5.gif


What is this. What am I reading. What the fuck. Who are these people.
 
Futurevoid said:
I'll be in the minority then and say I liked the Synthesis ending. Thought it was a pretty interesting choice at the finale and while you could spend time poking holes at it, I was fine with the higher power explanation of the Reapers existence.
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Marleyman said:
The synthesis ending makes the most sense to me. It is the next step in evolution and will ultimately lead to a galaxy that doesn't need Reapers any longer.
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Also what I chose. Made the most sense and was the most "game changer" of the three.
 
Marleyman said:
The synthesis ending makes the most sense to me.
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Yep. The exact reason I chose it. Destroying the Reapers didn't seem logical after the revelations explained. The control option also felt wrong even if the Illusive Man was proven right in the end. I didn't think my Shepard would want that power.
 
Shepard said:
Yes, but the reapers saw a pattern that synthetics will try to wipe organics (even if only by organics fault). If the Quarrian/Geth battle isn't enough to prove it, I think of it as a prelude of days to come.
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Irony being all conflict with the geth post Quarian attempted genocide was a consequence of Reaper meddling. They warred with Sovereign because he conned them. They chose the Reapers because Quarians, organics, decided out of nowhere to start a war.

The Geth as any form of evidence to support space kid's claims aren't flimsy at best, they don't exist at all.
 
alerus said:
And I already countered your first. The Geth never wanted war. The Quarians in their fear started it and didn't know how to end it. Once it was over, every sign pointed to things being okay. Do you have some reason to conclude that it will inevitably end in the Geth rebelling and killing everyone or are you just going to baselessly assert this as true?

With regards to the "solution" you're making a false dilemma. You're supposing that the only options that could possible exist are that synthetics not only rebel, but eliminate all organic life, or kill all advanced organic life every 5000 years. That's absurd. There are any number of other options available. One being that Reapers aren't killers but police making sure nothing gets genocidal. Another should be patently obvious to you because it's already in the game: synthesis. Yet some how star child thought the deaths of trillions was a better plan 'A' when another was right there all along.

The real absurdity here though, is these are just easy ideas that come to us. We're talking about a god-like being way beyond our intelligence and you honestly think they couldn't do anything better than this? That is unbelievably narrow minded.
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Catalyst and the Reapers never thought the organics were developed enough to acquire the synthesis phase as, like they say in the game, this is an evolved, superior state. Being able to complete the Crucible and effectively counter the invasion was what they needed to recognize the organics advancement.
 
Shepard said:
Catalyst and the Reapers never thought the organics were developed enough to acquire the synthesis phase as, like they say in the game, this is an evolved, superior state. Being able to complete the Crucible and effectively counter the invasion was what they needed to recognize the organics advancement.
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Yep. Space Kid says that Shepard even being there is a huge deal.
 
24957.jpg


Great. Now when I prep some tea and add honey, I'll be reflexively thinking of Tali sweat. First straws, now tea.

I'm becoming a creeper against my will.

Riposte said:
The fact people get so upset over Ashley's "space racism" makes me lol.
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Upset? Nah. Annoyed at her wasting a roster spot in ME1. But at least she had some defining traits, which is why I killed Kaiden.
 
Shepard said:
Catalyst and the Reapers never thought the organics were developed enough to acquire the synthesis phase as, like they say in the game, this is an evolved, superior state. Being able to complete the Crucible and effectively counter the invasion was what they needed to recognize the organics advancement.
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Our bad, bro! We were wrong. Why don't you just jump into the laser!

ElFly said:
Nope, the guy mentions that the fanbase is unhappy with the ending, and speculates (lol) that EA might release a new ending via dlc.
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I don't like his speculation on DLC.
 
ace3skoot said:
Wrex attacked shep! it was self defence, Also it kind of bugged me that mordin did a 180 in ME3 he did a terrible thing for the right reasons, the genophage had to stay it was in the best interest of the galaxy...of cause had i of known in the end everyone would be screwed over/killed/stuck on a jungle planet I probably need not of bothered :p
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Yeah that bugged me as well. I mean Mordin made a pretty solid case in ME2 I thought. Yes some of it was trying to convince himself, but most of it made logical sense to me. So when in ME3 he pretty much just seemed to have changed his mind for shits and giggles it annoyed me. Add on top of that him telling Wrex that i deleted the data as well. I mean fuck him on that. Changing his mind is one thing, but did he really have to snitch on me as well.

Still though I liked him so shooting him in the back and the aftermath of that was one of the best parts of ME3. It had to be done though the Krogan's natural birth rate is massively unsustainable in my opinion.

Though of course the shitty ending made all those choices null and void pretty much.
 
EatChildren said:
Irony being all conflict with the geth post Quarian attempted genocide was a consequence of Reaper meddling. They warred with Sovereign because he conned them. They chose the Reapers because Quarians, organics, decided out of nowhere to start a war.

The Geth as any form of evidence to support space kid's claims aren't flimsy at best, they don't exist at all.
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Yes, but the initial Geth-Quarrian fight had nothing to do with the Reapers, and the geth almost decimated the quarrians. I agree that, at that moment in the game there wasn't any synthetics forces trying to destroy the organics. But that could have happened in another cycle, and they just decided to decimate everyone before the synthetics become developed enough to create a stronger opposition.
 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1&sle=true said:
2. "Without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics."

A) Why not simply destroy the synthetics instead? The Reapers leave synthetics untouched, which would seem to run counter to their stated goal. Synthetics have indefinite lifespans and could persist into the next cycle to threaten future organic species! Destroying organics while leaving synthetics alone is not conducive to the stated purpose of the Reapers.

B) On Virmire Sovereign specifically states that civilizations develop "along the path we desire". In other words, the Reapers created the Mass Relay and Citadel so as to dictate the manner in which organic races develop technologically - but not in a way which would prevent or prohibit them from creating synthetics... the problem which necessitates the entire scenario.

Essentially: "You develop in a way that is dictated by us except for the thing you do which necessitates us controlling your development." If the Child's explanation is true it creates a circular fallacy of such absurdity that it sounds like an intentional joke.

C) His argument is logically fallacious. A synthetic intelligence possesses the same self-determination as an organic and is therefore not predisposed to any particular behavior simply by virtue of his physiological makeup. It is equally as likely, if not more so, that organics kill other organics. "Chaos" resulting from intra-organic conflict is far more prevalent and persistent than any conflict between synthetics and organics.

The only instance of synthetic-organic conflict in this "cycle" was a result of heinous acts on the part of organics - the Quarians' enslavement and subsequent attempted genocide of the Geth. Despite the irrational hostility towards the Geth these organics displayed, the Geth deliberately chose to allow the Quarians to flee Rannoch because they no longer posed a threat.
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I think that sums up why the Catalyst is a stupid piece of shit.
 
Shepard said:
Catalyst and the Reapers never thought the organics were developed enough to acquire the synthesis phase as, like they say in the game, this is an evolved, superior state. Being able to complete the Crucible and effectively counter the invasion was what they needed to recognize the organics advancement.
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First of all, I see you haven't provided an argument for why synthetics and organics cannot possibly ever get along and inevitably ends in death. Are you conceding that you have no basis for this belief?

Second of all, it has nothing to do with organics being advanced enough. It's space magic that affected everything, all life and all synthetic life. Even the plants got synthesized! This has absolutely nothing to do with people needing to be advanced enough.

Third of all, you didn't address the fact that you're making a false dilemma.
 
Shepard said:
Catalyst and the Reapers never thought the organics were developed enough to acquire the synthesis phase as, like they say in the game, this is an evolved, superior state. Being able to complete the Crucible and effectively counter the invasion was what they needed to recognize the organics advancement.
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Then what does the Crucible have to do with synthesis if the ability was with the ghost kid (who is the Citadel) all along?
 
Shepard said:
Yes, but the initial Geth-Quarrian fight had nothing to do with the Reapers, and the geth almost decimated the quarrians. I agree that, at that moment in the game there wasn't any synthetics forces trying to destroy the organics. But that could have happened in another cycle, and they just decided to decimate everyone before the synthetics become developed enough to create a stronger opposition.
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But you're only assuming that to be true. You're taking what the Catalyst says as truth. You've been indoctrinated.
 
Zomba13 said:
A) Why not simply destroy the synthetics instead? The Reapers leave synthetics untouched, which would seem to run counter to their stated goal. Synthetics have indefinite lifespans and could persist into the next cycle to threaten future organic species! Destroying organics while leaving synthetics alone is not conducive to the stated purpose of the Reapers..
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I am going to try to answer this. They don't destroy the synthetics because their ultimate goal is to merge them, per the Synthesis Ending. They wanted a cycle of organics that were worthy of this next step, and this cycle was it.
 
I always imagined the Quarian suits were kind of like stillsuits. Not to keep water in, so a different purpose, but because they are always on to keep everything else out. They are described as kind of musky, stillsuits.

















INCEPTION HORN



We are now the BSN!!!
 
Shepard said:
Catalyst and the Reapers never thought the organics were developed enough to acquire the synthesis phase as, like they say in the game, this is an evolved, superior state.
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That's exactly the argument Saren uses: "The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine, intertwined, a union of flesh and steel, the strength of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH4E_wpgtlA

Synthesis is a Reaper delusion used to weaken resistance. It's not a superior state. It's a state of surrender to the Reapers, which is death.
 
Marleyman said:
I am going to try to answer this. They don't destroy the synthetics because their ultimate goal is to merge them, per the Synthesis Ending. They wanted a cycle of organics that were worthy of this next step, and this cycle was it.
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But what if this cycle wasn't worthy? And we lost to the reapers and the Geth were left alone? They'd have 50,000 years to advance and by the Catalysts logic destroy all organic live in the universe ever.
 
Shepard said:
Yes, but the initial Geth-Quarrian fight had nothing to do with the Reapers, and the geth almost decimated the quarrians. .
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If you watch the consensus thing, they tell you that geth acutally stop pursuing quarian, and they chose to live in isolation.

quarian, no matter how you look at it, are in the wrong.
 
SerArthurDayne said:
I always imagined the Quarian suits were kind of like stillsuits. Not to keep water in, so a different purpose, but because they are always on to keep everything else out. They are described as kind of musky.




INCEPTION HORN BWAAAAAAAAAAAM



We are now the BSN!!!
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Fixed for the sound designer in all of us.
 
Futurevoid said:
I'll be in the minority then and say I liked the Synthesis ending. Thought it was a pretty interesting choice at the finale and while you could spend time poking holes at it, I was fine with the higher power explanation of the Reapers existence.

Two points I did want to comment on:

- To those arguing that synthetic and organic life proved it could get along in the form of EDI, etc. and calling that a "hole", the series establishes the Geth right off the bat as an example of the relationship between organic and synthetic life. The Prothean reinforces this with the story of the synthetics in his cycle and his complete mistrust of the Geth and any synthetic life form.

The Catalyst has thousands of years and innumerable cycles of evidence to make the assertion that the two can't coexist. An isolated incident here or there in the form of characters getting along is meaningless in the face of generations of experience. As the player, whether you "buy" into that is subjective. I was fine with it though I can see where some would see some perceived contradictions and why some would be bothered by it.

- i.e. the Reapers destroying organic life to save it being stupid and counter productive. Did folks actually listen to the Catalyst? The Reapers harvest and maintain the existence of those destroyed species. I took it to mean that they are the sum parts or a catalog/record of the DNA for each of the species they have wiped out. In the view of the Catalyst, they are preserving order while maintaining the "uniqueness" of each species all the while ascending the younger species to take their place. An imperfect solution as the Catalyst even admits once Shephard appears to change things....

Those are my thoughts at least and outside of the squad members being on the Normandy at the end (which is a bit of hole), I came away very satisfied with the finale.
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The Geth are a passive group of synthetics and everything they did was out of self defense. Legion himself said they never left the Perseus veil not because they couldn't but because they didn't want cause any conflict. They completely understood why the Quarians did what they did and let them go. The heretics are their only example of being violent and guess what they don't exist anymore.

Javiks description of synthetics is interesting because they aren't synthetics like the Geth they are cyborgs who rose up against the Protheans. They fought back against salvery not some bizarre sense of superiority.
 
Marleyman said:
I am going to try to answer this. They don't destroy the synthetics because their ultimate goal is to merge them, per the Synthesis Ending. They wanted a cycle of organics that were worthy of this next step, and this cycle was it.
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I'm pretty sure the synthesis ending has nothing to do with synthetic/AIs. Even if there were no Geth or any other robotic force, you'd still be a walking android. They don't affect the synthesis part of it. No one is merged, it's more like the next step of evolution, though it's not possible save for Space Magic.
 
alerus said:
First of all, I see you haven't provided an argument for why synthetics and organics cannot possibly ever get along. Are you conceding that you have no basis for this belief?

Second of all, it has nothing to do with organics being advanced enough. It's space magic that affected everything, all life and all synthetic life. Even the plants got synthesized! This has absolutely nothing to do with people needing to be advanced enough.
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Karl2177 said:
Then what does the Crucible have to do with synthesis if the ability was with the ghost kid (who is the Citadel) all along?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96CczhHtqgY
from 16:00 on: "you have choices, more than you deserve, the fact that you're standing here proves it."
 
When/why did the BWAAAAAAAAAAAM get so popular? Reaper noise, Inception, UMVC3 opening. Is there a reason? I mean, it is fun to just BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM sometimes.
 
Zomba13 said:
But what if this cycle wasn't worthy? And we lost to the reapers and the Geth were left alone? They'd have 50,000 years to advance and by the Catalysts logic destroy all organic live in the universe ever.
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Don't know but an organic getting as far as Shepard did was evidence enough for the Catalyst.
 
Shepard said:
Yes, but the initial Geth-Quarrian fight had nothing to do with the Reapers, and the geth almost decimated the quarrians. I agree that, at that moment in the game there wasn't any synthetics forces trying to destroy the organics. But that could have happened in another cycle, and they just decided to decimate everyone before the synthetics become developed enough to create a stronger opposition.
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But the only reason that happened was because the Quarians started genocide. The geth faught entirely in self defence. And even once defeated, the Geth let retreating Quarians go, as they saw no reason being wiping them out.

If organics need preserving its because they're dumb fucks likely to get themselves killed, either trying to genocide peaceful robots, or blowing each other up.

And if thats the case then fuck 'em. Preserve the synthetics.
 
The illusive man controlling shepard at the end can be explained cause cerberus was making experiments on controlling indoctrination.

Chances are that whatever mechanism they discovered was implanted on TIM, and he used it to make shepard shot anderson.

Of course in the end it doesn't work against the reapers themselves (which would have been another venue for an decent ending that wasn't used) but it explains why shepard is forced to do stuff.
 
hateradio said:
I'm pretty sure the synthesis ending has nothing to do with synthetic/AIs. Even if there were no Geth or any other robotic force, you'd still be a walking android. They don't affect the synthesis part of it. No one is merged, it's more like the next step of evolution, though it's not possible save for Space Magic.
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How doesn't it?
 
EatChildren said:
But the only reason that happened was because the Quarians started genocide. The geth faught entirely in self defence. And even once defeated, the Geth let retreating Quarians go, as they saw no reason being wiping them out.

If organics need preserving its because they're dumb fucks likely to get themselves killed, either trying to genocide peaceful robots, or blowing each other up.

And if thats the case then fuck 'em. Preserve the synthetics.
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In that I agree with you. The thing is: wiping synthetics and they can be rebuild, wipe organics and they're gone for good. The catalyst wants to maintain a balance.
 
One point that was brought up in the google doc that I really did actually find interesting was "what's to stop the new synthetic/organic hybrids from creating new pure synthetics? Does any new robot built suddenly magically turn into a cyborg?"

In that regard, how does this solution permanently stop the possibility of the singularity event still having the chance to occur in the future?

The illusive man controlling shepard at the end can be explained cause cerberus was making experiments on controlling indoctrination.

Chances are that whatever mechanism they discovered was implanted on TIM, and he used it to make shepard shot anderson.

Of course in the end it doesn't work against the reapers themselves (which would have been another venue for an decent ending that wasn't used) but it explains why shepard is forced to do stuff.
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IIRC, that research was only said to have succeeded on husks, or at the very least, those already in tune with reaper signals. While it's possible TIM reverse-engineered indoctrination, how could he possibly broadcast it to hit Shepard and Anderson in such a manner on the citadel?

Probably more lazy writing on Bioware's part, but it does allow for SPECULATION.
 
PsychoWARD23 said:
No, that's actually good, it'll get more support that way.
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It is unfeasible, Bioware (and certainly not EA if they need to pay for it!) has no intention of changing the ending, and as EatChildren has pointed out: it will not remove that initial emotional rollercoaster that the ending, sadly, created.

It might make amends, and at least give new players past that point a franchise worth playing, but since the galactic reset is pretty much final, there is little chance the publisher and developer would actually do this.

The equation is a bit as follows: DLC income lost + lost income on ending debat versus income gained (next to nothing?) by new ending + DLC income, which has now become unpredictable because fans might remain sour, even after a fix.

So no, business wise, they will just cancel the DLC and move on. No fix will ever be made.
Sorry to be such a downer on it, but that a reality you can count on.
(shepard always was... too idealistic)
 
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