INDOCTRINATION
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
INDOCTRINATION
Apophenia Overload
Member
I'll say it again: it's dumb how Cerberus is the big villain below the Reapers. It makes a former terrorist network into a supervillain army like COBRA (though to be fair ME 2 already did that), and then turns them from COBRA into a superpower capable of screwing with governments who are already mobilizing for war. ME 3 should have had you fighting every race's equivalent of Cerberus. ME 1 and 2 had more enemy variety than this game.
MASS EFFECT
Hey, what if this is the secret? Once we've accumulated enough worldwide Effective Speculation Assets Bioware will release the REAL ending DLC.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Note: Sorry, this is quoted from waay back in the previous thread.
But why should you believe the self righteous dick of a glowing child is correct that it's the final evolution? He's a jerk as well, and Shepard just stands there, la la la. The only time in the conversation you can question him, he basically dismisses your statement and you just go along. "you have choice... MORE THAN YOU DESERVE" Jeepers, it's like the developers talking to me there.
Anyway, my point is that you are altering the structure of every living thing in the galaxy, making everybody the same despite the fact one of the themes of the game is diversity. All because the little boy said it was the final evolution? Plus you're not even allowed to talk to the little boy to find out what synthesis will fully do.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I never understood why people hate the Matrix sequels so much. In particular the fact that every scene except the Architect was shown pre-release made that scene (and the implied betrayalton of the 'feelgood movie' it was starting to become) brilliant from my point of view. I thoroughly enjoyed the Architect spelling out what was fully to be expected but nobody had considered: that 'the One' was an exception like any other, one could be predicted and ultimately, dealt with.
Of course, if choice was the problem, then at least one screen should have shown Neo choking the Architect or pulling a 'jump into' on him, but oh well.
I can understand why people found certain elements of revolutions problematic though, since the extended universe products like 'enter the matrix' were just assumed. I still own that game and was pleased with it at the time though, so I had no issue with it.
Except that Trinity death scene, where someone I the theater at some point shouting: "Just frigging die already, woman!" and the entire room laughed at it. That could have been better, obviously.
brianmcdoogle
Member
Shepard died for somebody's sins but not mine.
Cant disagree with this. Though id argue that its as simple as this:
Have all of your crew survive? You have better chance of defeating the reapers. With each character that died, somewhere along the line your forces at the end of me3 take a hit too.
Variability in who dies at the end of me2 isn't really a problem when implementing it within the final battle and how strong your forces are.
Net_Wrecker
Member
So this is officially the "Nanomachines" of the Mass Effect series?
Wondered same thing , then space casper started his lines and all thoughts turned to rage
heliosRAzi
Banned
Did you get a full refund or partial?
how did they not rip off their own ending
how
i mean the rest of the game's plot was a ripoff of me2
swap squadmate loyalty with species loyalty
swap the collectors with the reapers
ta da
all they had to do was rip off their own ending too
shepard gets to build up his army then tell it what to do and which fleet does what
like you get a choice of which race is going to lead the hammer push, and if youre a dumbass youll pick like a salarian squad or if youre smart youll pick the krogan
maybe theres a task where the only way to get the best outcome is to use the rachni, which means you had to have saved them
but nah
like four dropships worth of human guys do everything
the end
BuckRobotron
Member
Tokubetsu
Member
Everything after Marauder Shields' failed but valiant attempt to stop you? SPACE MAGIC.
Giant baby reaper unicorn. Stick to the theme, bioware!
Full. 59.99. All I did was select "product different from website" and click refund. No lengthy exposition in thr comment box.
Takamura-San
Member
I don't feel that TIM was ruined.
The way he acted and his goal at the end of ME3 fall in line with the ending of ME2.
Tokubetsu
Member
I never understood why people hate the Matrix sequels so much. In particular the fact that every scene except the Architect was shown pre-release made that scene (and the implied betrayalton of the 'feelgood movie' it was starting to become) brilliant from my point of view. I thoroughly enjoyed the Architect spelling out what was fully to be expected but nobody had considered: that 'the One' was an exception like any other, one could be predicted and ultimately, dealt with.
Of course, if choice was the problem, then at least one screen should have shown Neo choking the Architect or pulling a 'jump into' on him, but oh well.
I can understand why people found certain elements of revolutions problematic though, since the extended universe products like 'enter the matrix' were just assumed. I still own that game and was pleased with it at the time though, so I had no issue with it.
Except that Trinity death scene, where someone I the theater at some point shouting: "Just frigging die already, woman!" and the entire room laughed at it. That could have been better, obviously.
I'm a bit biased because I'm HUGE Matrix fan, but I agree. The only problem I've ever had with the sequels was what you pointed out. Trinity's death scene was way too fucking long. It needs to lose like three minutes of runtime.
Apophenia Overload
Member
I think the main problem with them is that they got tripped up in their own lore (similar to the Star Wars prequels), thus becoming less accessible to non-fan audiences, which should be a big no-no in cinema. And their lore got more esoteric and mystic, the dialogue more incomprehensible without fan-written analysis online, which most people simply aren't going to read. Compared to the first film, the sequels' stories were simply weaker, and they were simply lesser films. Though, A.V. Club recently wrote an article in defense of them.
heliosRAzi
Banned
You should probably post that in the main Amazon thread. Why did you want to return it? Because of the ending?
Why would the reapers build an elevator that ended in hard vacuum?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(continual disclaimer: I still haven't played ME3)
It flabbergasts me that the ending sequence of ME3 (not even the ending, just the pre-ending sequence) apparently doesn't demonstrate a wide variance based on all of the work you've been doing up until then. That was like one of the best parts of ME2. That was one of the only things I liked about ME2!
Sigh.... it's true. All the colors of the friggin' rainbow.
Crossing my fingers the DLC will be an epic battle against Harbinger with all the forces of the Galaxy at your side.
Instead it'll be something on Omega as the rumors are indicating.
Upon mission completion you'll get 200XP and ANOTHER WAR ASSET.
Apophenia Overload
Member
Anyone have any comments on my points on TIM or Cerberus?
Tokubetsu
Member
I really don't buy that the TIM from ME2 would let himself be indoctrinated. He would have failsafes in place, backup plans etc etc. Most of all, he would not keep a fucking reaper in the same station as the one he operates out of when he knows full well what even a decommisioned/"dead' one is capable of.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Reapers don't need to breath
His actions were in line, but his character was ruined because of the fact that we had allllllllll this buildup for TIM and he goes out with such a whimper. That's called low return. Terrible. He just gets shot by a basically dead Shep and then that's it.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
So funny "4 dropships of humans", loving this thread
Takamura-San
Member
I don't think is a question of letting himself being indoctrinated. I think like Saren on ME1 they felt that they were in full control of their actions while at the same time they were loosing they will. Even TIM's turn to good was in par with Saren's change of heart once you hit all the blue dots in ME1.
TIM played with fire when trying to harvest the reapers technology and got caught in a web.
This is a terrible |OT| first post. Where is Marauder Shields? Where is indoctrination video? What is the screen writer's musing about the ending?
Can a mod fix it? Do your job EatChildren.
Marauder Shields is there.
Tokubetsu
Member
I still don't buy it. Even though he might have been a bit arrogant, TIM was tempered by an intelligence network that rivaled and may have been BETTER than the shadow broker's. Here is a man who knew all the cards that everyone held. He would not let himself get indoctrinated. He would have that reaper in some secret location, it would indoctrinate everyone stationed there and he would go "Oh shit, well, fuck. Nuke it from orbit" and chalk it up to another failed experiment before proceeding to some other angle.
Net_Wrecker
Member
We're talking about the same dev who didn't even bother to do a text based epilogue describing what became out all the character's you've met along the way, and instead use War Assets to determine which random building gets knocked over in a cutscene. As it is now, variables mean nothing.
But that's not high art, and avant-garde. Get with the program, dood.
Takamura-San
Member
Yet at the same time, the ability to indoctrinate people is not something you delegate to someone else to test out.
Apophenia Overload
Member
I understand that, but I think it's kinda lame that he just turns into a human version of Saren. I know it's just my own fanfiction/headcanon, but I think it'd be cooler if TIM was a complex and tragic enough character that everything he did was under his own will, it's just his actions were inevitably going to benefit the Reapers (who are simply so far beyond our comprehension that yeah playing with fire is going to get you caught in their web). So Harbinger and the rest were letting him continue to do so, amused, because despite his character and ego he was still helping their cause. They were simply going to Indoctrinate him at the last moment when they no longer needed him to act willfully under his own power.
Any comments on my criticism of Cerberus?
MMM yo
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
well, they did have far less time to write and prepare the sequels than they did for the original movie. The drop in quality (which I personally do not agree with, but oh well) is to be reasonably expected. And the Matrix was always an esoteric story. If people only caught on to that later on, that's not the movies' mistake. You can't force a movie to make you interpret it 'correctly'.
That is not to say that the creator doesn't have the responsibility to communicate his message in a clear manner, but there are limits to what you may expect the author to be capable of.
(think about the last shot of Inception, which Nolan thought would communicate something completely different from what the viewer took from it)
btw: I would have vastly preferred the Daikatana Kai Leng in your avatar over '90's runaway boy' that we ended up with.
Tokubetsu
Member
I guess my thing is I just don't like the idea of TIM as a big bad at all. I think it would have been a bolder move to make TIM sort of smaller villain in ME3. He's actively working against you throughout the game but before the end, the reaper experiments fails (maybe has shepard help resolve it?), he realizes that humans/the universe isn't going to win the like this, and acknowledges that Shepard might have the better idea. He then pools resources with Shepard this one time/last time.
Then maybe going forward, you could have Cerberus as a big bad in sequels/extended universe stuff and TIM back to his Pro-Human ways.
This kinda goes back to me not wanting to just explain reapers and keeping them as the unkowable cthulu like old ones thogh so yea. It's just whatever. I'm ranting with too muche coffee in me.
Then maybe going forward, you could have Cerberus as a big bad in sequels/extended universe stuff and TIM back to his Pro-Human ways.
This kinda goes back to me not wanting to just explain reapers and keeping them as the unkowable cthulu like old ones thogh so yea. It's just whatever. I'm ranting with too muche coffee in me.
Because if they hadn't built it we would have lost a ham-fisted Jesus Shepard elevation metaphor.
HarryHengst
Member
This is now my favourite thread on the forums. :3
Why were there so many other bodies there? They went over this in the game.
The Citadel is a reaper juicer.
Tokubetsu
Member
Also love how Shepard can't muster enough strength to press some buttons on a console and basically dies from loss of blood, but somehow has enough energy to get back up once the elevator shows up, and have an entire conversation with starchild before walking 30+ meters to some beams. Space Magic.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
SAY IT RIGHT OR DON'T SAY IT AT ALL
The worst part is that the OT for the game itself hasn't even hit 15k posts.
:lol
Someone needs to make a gif of the INCEPTION dog but with INDOCTRINATION with Marauder Shields' face 'shopped on.
Apophenia Overload
Member
I think to go along with that idea each race should have their own version of Cerberus. Turian militarist special-ops divisions who decide the only solution for survival is to embrace the Reapers, maybe made up of officers who once served with Saren. Salarian scientists who decided the same thing, who hypothesize the best chance that organics have is to become consumed the Reapers, hoping to establish some sort of independent entity within their hive mind. Asari and Hanar cultists who are basically devil worshippers because they believe the Reapers are stronger than their traditional gods/the Enkindlers. Volus who just want to make a quick buck selling out their organic brethren. The possibilities are endless! There should be all sorts of dangerous groups getting Indoctrinated and serving the Reapers.
Instead we just get humans, humans, and humans, when the whole point of Mass Effect is that humans are not as militarily powerful as the alien races.