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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Right, but was DAII's shit storm really as big as this? Was it a huge controversy and debate plastered over every single major website? Is it the topic of conversation among the industry pr, to the point of being the source of jokes among some non-BioWare developers (see: April Fools)? Did the forums absolutely explode with the fan reaction that we're seeing (cupcakes, charity, etc)?

DAII had a shit storm, and though I could be wrong, I don't think it came close to what we're seeing now.
I'm aware of the difference, but they've already shown a defensive stance on the issue. If they want to change anything, it'll be too little too late.

I also think the difference is that DAO fans knew how bad DAII would be, so we had time to prepare for shit mountain. Not only that, but it was also the second game in the trilogy, so it was expect to be a streamlined version of the universe, like ME2. In this case, ME3 turns into a train wreck at the last minute. (Though it's not exactly perfect it was doing fine.)

Maybe this situation is worse because the DA fans who got burned before are also ME fans, and they have decided not to take this kind of shit from BW anymore. :D

That would actually be kinda fun.

Also: DA2 was "just get it done". They had an insanely short timeline to deal with. Plus, in the context of a year-long dev time, it was pretty solid. But why they chose to up the graphics in that timeline, I'll never know.
Some of the same things could be said about ME3. I think we've all pointed out areas where the game needed to cook some more. ME3 is of course overall more successful than DA2, which was just all kinds of fucked up. I think DA2's graphics were upped because it could handle DX11.

I still hope they release a texture pack for ME3, but it won't happen.
 
Man, I'm not talking about the image as a whole or a company projected image. I'm talking about statements like "Bioware honestly doesn't give a fuck about making the best product possible", and how poorly and inaccurately they explain the apparent problems.

This post of yours already does a better job of detailing why you feel the way you do and where the problems lie.



And this is binary, boring thinking that holds no weight in an interesting, analytical discussion of the rights and wrongs of a business, a business made up of people, people making creative and executive decisions, these decisions the cause of your opinions in the first place.

And honestly? I think it's dumb, and a cheap cop out, because it holds nobody, the individuals responsible for mistakes, responsible for their mistakes. It's umbrella of blame that solves nothing.

I really DON'T think Bioware gives a fuck about making the best product possible because they DIDN'T. If it meant that much to them, they'd have executed better. That is bit of a simplification but as a company, they have shown over the past few years that they care less and less about putting out the best product possible to us as consumers. You can subjectively believe that they care so very deeply, but that certainly doesn't change some of the big mistakes they've made.

If you want to go after 'the man' rather than 'the people', then you have to know who was in charge of what, and what their decisions actually were. I could start picking out names of Bioware staff who I THINK are in charge of certain decisions, but if I don't actually know, then am I not placing blame on the innocent? And if you believe that we should place blame on individuals, then shouldn't you start by naming who is responsible, or trying to find out? Otherwise it's a moot point.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
They've definitively been defensive, but their defence involved the company CEO issuing a public statement that something was being developed to (as they hope) address the very criticisms of fans. Their defensiveness has been defending their decisions as is, and poorly understanding (or outright ignoring) most of the criticisms towards the narrative and writing.

As I've said, I expect their 'game content initiatives' to, by large, fix nothing, adding more fluff and exposition to the shit that will forever be shit, but they're putting themselves out there to address the criticism.

They are making some changes/additions, and the CEO had to make a public address to confirm this. That's a pretty big deal, and shows they can't just sweep it under the rug. Someone, somewhere up in the EA/BioWare chain of command, isn't happy with how this is playing out.

And I think that though DAII's response wasn't anywhere near as big as this that yeah, the scale of this response is a "fool me twice" situation. Double burned, double pissed.

I really DON'T think Bioware gives a fuck about making the best product possible because they DIDN'T. If it meant that much to them, they'd have executed better. That is bit of a simplification but as a company, they have shown over the past few years that they care less and less about putting out the best product possible to us as consumers. You can subjectively believe that they care so very deeply, but that certainly doesn't change some of the big mistakes they've made.

If you want to go after 'the man' rather than 'the people', then you have to know who was in charge of what, and what their decisions actually were. I could start picking out names of Bioware staff who I THINK are in charge of certain decisions, but if I don't actually know, then am I not placing blame on the innocent? And if you believe that we should place blame on individuals, then shouldn't you start by naming who is responsible, or trying to find out? Otherwise it's a moot point.

I can't really debate this with you if you're going to put BioWare under one big umbrella of "they don't give a fuck about products". If you want to feel that way fine, you've made your point and I see the angle you want to take. But it's an angle I cannot side with, agree with, or debate against, because we don't see eye-to-eye. You want to view BioWare as a single entity and hold that entity responsible. Fair enough. I'd rather dig a bit deeper than that. EG: I'm happy with the writing work provided for 90% of Mass Effect 3. I am not happy with the ending. I am not happy because Walters and Hudson made some fucking bad decisions by themselves. I hold them entirely responsible, and direct my criticism there way.

Them not attending the PAX panel I feel is an example of other people sharing my stance directing similar criticism right at them.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Dammit between this and the GoT episode tonight you guys are making me want to try out my steam copy of Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition. Never even installed it.
 

Tajin

Banned
Come on people. Bioware isn't exactly the top tier developer of hyper-polished AAA games so many people make them out to be.

At least not anymore.

The difficult part is how they tread so close to greatness. But hey, what do you expect from a company that peaked out 10 years ago?
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Sending Weekes and then tweeting all about it was a shitty, shitty move.

A very shitty move. Throwing him to the wolves. Give it a month tops and he'll either be fired, or demoted further until they force him out of the company.

I'm sure you never generalize companies into monolithic entities, EC.

I'm sure I do it all the time, but I try to catch myself doing so and, where I can, direct criticism at the appropriate individuals. In this case, as I have pointed out, I am happy with a notable portion of this product's quality, and dissatisfied with very specific parts. Specific parts that can be attributed to specific individuals.

Thus it would be kind of fucking stupid and dishonest for me to whine about the entity that is BioWare when I've already established and know the people who I hold responsible for the problems.
 

Aaron

Member
I wonder how Drew K. feels about the ending, since being a novelest he should have a better understanding in how a narrative goes together. Probably thinks it's a shit burger, but doesn't want to say so, and burn any bridges with his former company.
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Dammit between this and the GoT episode tonight you guys are making me want to try out my steam copy of Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition. Never even installed it.
Do it.

Some people don't like it because it's derivative for Tolken and stuff, but remember to play it for the characters, who are, imo, very well-written and engaging throughout the journey.

A very shitty move. Throwing him to the wolves. Give it a month tops and he'll either be fired, or demoted further until they force him out of the company.
Maybe someone at the BSN will provide him with a basket of cupcakes shaped like Mordin.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Have they ever, though? Bioware is pretty much known mainly for its world-building. I mean, I've never had a Bioware game with combat that absolutely blew me away.

Umm yes? As if combat is the only aspect of gameplay or the only aspect that decides if you are an great dev.
 
I Really thought Kai Leng was going to be a squad mate... I thought I saw a spoiler that he was. Was disappointed. It seemed like in the books he was getting tired of TIM's shit a bit, so it would have been a cool addition. Oh well.

I actually really really really enjoy ME3's gameplay lol.


Up there with top-tier TPS as far as I'm concerned.
Yea and people say, "It's no gears!" but I felt it more satisfying then gears. Due to fighting cerberus/geth is more interesting then Locust.
 
I Really thought Kai Leng was going to be a squad mate... I thought I saw a spoiler that he was. Was disappointed. It seemed like in the books he was getting tired of TIM's shit a bit, so it would have been a cool addition. Oh well.


Yea and people say, "It's no gears!" but I felt it more satisfying then gears. Due to fighting cerberus/geth is more interesting then Locust.

I honestly - besides Javik - don't know why they included new party members in the game to begin with.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
I Really thought Kai Leng was going to be a squad mate... I thought I saw a spoiler that he was. Was disappointed. It seemed like in the books he was getting tired of TIM's shit a bit, so it would have been a cool addition. Oh well.


Yea and people say, "It's no gears!" but I felt it more satisfying then gears. Due to fighting cerberus/geth is more interesting then Locust.

Gears has no biotics or tech powers but overall i think Gears controls better.
 
I Really thought Kai Leng was going to be a squad mate... I thought I saw a spoiler that he was. Was disappointed. It seemed like in the books he was getting tired of TIM's shit a bit, so it would have been a cool addition. Oh well.

He was such a poorly developed character. I guess he has some ridiculous backstory and all that from the books, but in the game only he's just some guy who works for Cerberus and that's all you ever learn about him.
 

Moaradin

Member
I hate gears shaky cam. I think the combat was more satisfying in this game, and a lot of that is because of the powers and squad management.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
I honestly - besides Javik - don't know why they included new party members in the game to begin with.

Probably because they wrote themselves into a weird place having everyone able to die. Frankly, in a series with player choice over deaths, I think they got carried away. Its too hard to keep track of it and it ends requiring you to sacrifice too much just to satisfy the fact that so and so may have died.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
I honestly - besides Javik - don't know why they included new party members in the game to begin with.

They needed more for sure people to use for people who botched the suicide in 2. Liara and the Virmire survivor were the only 2 they had for sure.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
He was such a poorly developed character. I guess he has some ridiculous backstory and all that from the books, but in the game only he's just some guy who works for Cerberus and that's all you ever learn about him.

You mean a dick head space ninja who works for cerberus. The thing is, if he had been introduced in 1 or 2 i think they would have let you kill him in the game he was first in thus creating the same problem. I dont think they could have resisted having a boss fight with him to satisfy the player instead of holding off.
 

Moaradin

Member
You can kill the virmire survivor in ME3 also before he/she becomes a full squad mate. It wouldn't be possible to have only Liara as a squad member so they needed at least 1 more.
 

Hartt951

Member
I actually really really really enjoy ME3's gameplay lol.


Up there with top-tier TPS as far as I'm concerned.
Agreed. I love Gears and yes it controls better but I wouldn't say by much. I'm been playing the shit out of MP cause I love the gameplay. Biotics are awesome.
 

rozay

Banned
He was such a poorly developed character. I guess he has some ridiculous backstory and all that from the books, but in the game only he's just some guy who works for Cerberus and that's all you ever learn about him.
He seemed to be involved a lot more in the story in the leak, working against you at every step, feeding Ashley/Kaidan false information to turn them against you. He was a complete little shit in the finished game.

I almost facepalmed when the achievement for beating him was "Defeat an old adversary." There was no where near enough development in his character to classify him as that.
 

Dany

Banned
You can kill the virmire survivor in ME3 also before he/she becomes a full squad mate. It wouldn't be possible to have only Liara as a squad member so they needed at least 1 more.

The least amount of squadmates you can have in this game is Liara, Vega and EDI.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
You can kill the virmire survivor in ME3 also before he/she becomes a full squad mate. It wouldn't be possible to have only Liara as a squad member so they needed at least 1 more.

Yeah, I meant from a starting scenario though. If they didn't have James/Javik they couldn't have had the Virmire survior get hospitalized.
 
He was such a poorly developed character. I guess he has some ridiculous backstory and all that from the books, but in the game only he's just some guy who works for Cerberus and that's all you ever learn about him.

Yea really. Which made me feel he'd become a squadmate even more -- so they could flesh out his story/reasons more.
 
Yea, the internet getting Weekes fired. ("He got himself fired!") Yea, whatever. Finally get some insight on the whole thing and bloggers spread it around and fuck him over.
 
Sending Weekes and then tweeting all about it was a shitty, shitty move.

If he is the guy who went on record saying he didn't like the ending, isn't he in some sense a friendly face for PAX audience? It would be a bit unfair for PAX attendees to rip him a new one when he didnt have an hand in the ending and went on record saying it sucked?

So maybe it's a way of trying to get the panel to be not too inflammatory or something.

edit: I finally read his post. It's not as damning as some make it out to be. It's harsh but not inflammatory, critical but respectful of casey hudson. I don't know how the big shots would react to it. I would guess not so well, though.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Yea, the internet getting Weekes fired. ("He got himself fired!") Yea, whatever. Finally get some insight on the whole thing and bloggers spread it around and fuck him over.

Its the internet. Not a fucking secret clubhouse where nothing leaves these walls. Its whats so great about twitter. If its something that could get you in trouble maybe you shouldnt share it with the whole fucking world.
 
Its the internet. Not a fucking secret clubhouse where nothing leaves these walls. Its whats so great about twitter. If its something that could get you in trouble maybe you shouldnt share it with the whole fucking world.

Ohhh bitch bitch bitch. I'm not saying it's sacred, just sucky. Not being able to speak about something you are working on is a pain in the ass, especially when it's under so much fire.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
If he is the guy who went on record saying he didn't like the ending, isn't he in some sense a friendly face for PAX audience? It would be a bit unfair for PAX attendees to rip him a new one when he didnt have an hand in the ending and went on record saying it sucked?

So maybe it's a way of trying to get the panel to be not too inflammatory or something.

He was the one that outed it being Mac and Casey IIRC. Either way, I hope the fans don't tear him up as he was a part of the best ME3 moments. It's completely fucked up that neither of the two that did the ending are going, they know damn well it's all people are going to ask about.
 

Gartooth

Member
Sad that Weekes, the writer that worked on some of the best moments in ME3, is getting set ablaze. Meanwhile Walters who made the worst contributions to the series in terms of writing, seems to be getting along just fine as far as we know.
 
Its sucky and he should know better. You are putting your thoughts into a public place of ideas. What do you expect?

What did I expect? For the internet to fuck him over. And it sucks.

Fine, I'll join with you. Fuck him! He should have known better bastard! KILL HIM!
 
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