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[EatChildren]

Nobody really knows what happened in ME2 with the whole deal as if I remember correctly Drew is credited as a lead writer in the credits for ME2. All that can really be said is that Drew stepped down from lead in ME2 but definitely worked on the game to some extent.

Walters wrote Wrex and Garrus in ME1 I believe. He wrote Aria and TIM in ME2. He also wrote Garrus's mission and story arc in ME2. Weekes wrote Garrus's dialogue on the Normandy. In ME3 he wrote the intro level, most of TIM's dialogue, Vega, and the final ending segment.

If anything, ME2 is a good example of a game that had a larger scope than BioWare could deliver. Based on the numerous recorded and cut dialogue encounters, I figure they wanted more freedom on who you could recruit and where. Somewhere along the lines they realised this wasn't working, or they didn't have enough time, and had to reel it in, segmenting the game into 'acts' defined by each Collector related mission. Hence why the main story's plot feels quite...empty.

If Walters wrote what you say, then I feel he is a much more competent writer when he's doing what the rest of the team does: writing individual characters and specific story arcs that exist outside of the core narrative.

That's where he seems to lose the plot (literally): delivering an entire game's worth of narrative. Both the intro and the end were the weakest, most rushed and plot hole riddled points of the game.

 

[sTeLioSco]

Mass Effect 3 Ending Deconstruction

It should be obvious, but this post is going to be complete and total spoilers for Mass Effect 3. Also, most of what I say here is just a re-hash of points that have been made elsewhere. The problems with the ending are very obvious, and I don’t think it takes a keen analysis or a deep understanding of the Mass Effect lore to uncover these issues.

The truth is, my nitpicking skills are wasted on this, and I don’t have a lot to add to the conversation. I’m writing this mostly to get it off my chest.

And to deflect the likely objections: Yes, the rest of the game is often quite good, and there were many “fanservice” moments where players got things they had been hoping / waiting for since the original game. But right now we’re talking about the ending to Mass Effect 3, which I rank as the worst ending I’ve ever personally played. Worse than KOTOR 2. Worse than Neverwinter Nights 2. It fails thematically, it fails logically, it fails at basic coherence, and it fails to be consistent with what has come before.

I know it’s childish and melodramatic when fans say, “This new thing has RUINED this series FOREVER!” I don’t want to go that far, but I will say it’s done a lot of damage. I just finished a re-play of Mass Effect 1, and it’s shocking just how many things seem stupid, contrived, inconsistent, or pointless now that I know how they turn out.

And no, I’m not a believer in the “indoctrination theory“. I think that would be better than the ending we got, but I don’t think it it was ever intended by the writers. This theory involves an incredible level of subtle symbolism, which goes against just how ham-fisted the rest of the story is. To wit: If these writers thought Shepard was indoctrinated in the last stage of the game, we would know it.

another article,full here:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=15395#more-15395

 

[Jarmel]

If anything, ME2 is a good example of a game that had a larger scope than BioWare could deliver. Based on the numerous recorded and cut dialogue encounters, I figure they wanted more freedom on who you could recruit and where. Somewhere along the lines they realised this wasn't working, or they didn't have enough time, and had to reel it in, segmenting the game into 'acts' defined by each Collector related mission. Hence why the main story's plot feels quite...empty.

If Walters wrote what you say, then I feel he is a much more competent writer when he's doing what the rest of the team does: writing individual characters and specific story arcs that exist outside of the core narrative.

That's where he seems to lose the plot (literally): delivering an entire game's worth of narrative. Both the intro and the end were the weakest, most rushed and plot hole riddled points of the game.

I would say he's a competent character writer but an absolutely lousy lead writer. He didn't have a strong idea where he wanted to go with the overarching narrative. That is where Drew's absence is most felt I would say. Drew had in ME1 a clear vision of the universe and not only the components of it but also the underlying themes of tragedy. Drew most likely would not have had a design sheet that stated "Brave New World and Matrix". I also think Bioware should seriously invest into some quality editors.

 

[sTeLioSco]

and an article for the entitled terrorists

BioWare Ruined Video Games

This is not a post about how the ending of Mass Effect 3 was terrible and how they deserve to burn for what they committed to disc. This isn’t a post about how an entitled mass decided to petition BioWare to change that ending, nor is it a post about that guy and how he complained to the FTC because he didn’t like the end of a story.

This is a post about how BioWare ruined everything.

Ray Muzyka issued a statement today in response to those who were voicing their discontent. Instead of just saying something like “I’m sorry you didn’t like it guys,” or “hey, it was written like that because,” Muzyka said that they will make changes to the ending of Mass Effect 3. Cries of “We won!” can already be heard from NeoGAF and Reddit and that FTC guy is happier than a pig in shit.

Not a bug with how the game functioned, he stated they would address the concerns that would give more closure to the story of Mass Effect. Instead of sticking by their original script and design document, they bowed to the vocal minority and gave these people a voice they don’t deserve. There’s a reason the feds don’t negotiate with terrorists: it doesn’t do anyone any good.

If terrorists see that when their peers demand a bus, they get a bus, the next guy to take over a bank will want the bus too. “But you gave it to that last guy, ” they’ll whine. Now, when the ‘passionate’ and ‘vocal’ gamers dislike something, they’ll band together and beat their fists against whatever building is closest to try and bring it down. This group of people is but a small subset of the hundreds of thousands of players who bought the title. As Penny Arcade’s Ben Kuchera wrote, “most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there’s a controversy at all.”

......
......

http://splitkick.com/bioware-ruined-video-games/

 

[Minion101]

So penny arcade removed any posts linking back to or quoting the original text Patrick Weekes? I can see BSN doing that on their own forums but why would penny arcade?

 

[HarryHengst]

and an article for the entitled terrorists

BioWare Ruined Video Games

This is not a post about how the ending of Mass Effect 3 was terrible and how they deserve to burn for what they committed to disc. This isn’t a post about how an entitled mass decided to petition BioWare to change that ending, nor is it a post about that guy and how he complained to the FTC because he didn’t like the end of a story.

This is a post about how BioWare ruined everything.

Ray Muzyka issued a statement today in response to those who were voicing their discontent. Instead of just saying something like “I’m sorry you didn’t like it guys,” or “hey, it was written like that because,” Muzyka said that they will make changes to the ending of Mass Effect 3. Cries of “We won!” can already be heard from NeoGAF and Reddit and that FTC guy is happier than a pig in shit.

Not a bug with how the game functioned, he stated they would address the concerns that would give more closure to the story of Mass Effect. Instead of sticking by their original script and design document, they bowed to the vocal minority and gave these people a voice they don’t deserve. There’s a reason the feds don’t negotiate with terrorists: it doesn’t do anyone any good.

If terrorists see that when their peers demand a bus, they get a bus, the next guy to take over a bank will want the bus too. “But you gave it to that last guy, ” they’ll whine. Now, when the ‘passionate’ and ‘vocal’ gamers dislike something, they’ll band together and beat their fists against whatever building is closest to try and bring it down. This group of people is but a small subset of the hundreds of thousands of players who bought the title. As Penny Arcade’s Ben Kuchera wrote, “most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there’s a controversy at all.”

......
......

http://splitkick.com/bioware-ruined-video-games/

Ahaha, keep on making an idiot out of yourself, 'game journalists'.

 

[Chinner]

it's a shame that videogame journalists loyalty is to the publisher and not their readers, but i guess thats where the money is.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

and an article for the entitled terrorists

BioWare Ruined Video Games

This is not a post about how the ending of Mass Effect 3 was terrible and how they deserve to burn for what they committed to disc. This isn’t a post about how an entitled mass decided to petition BioWare to change that ending, nor is it a post about that guy and how he complained to the FTC because he didn’t like the end of a story.

This is a post about how BioWare ruined everything.

Ray Muzyka issued a statement today in response to those who were voicing their discontent. Instead of just saying something like “I’m sorry you didn’t like it guys,” or “hey, it was written like that because,” Muzyka said that they will make changes to the ending of Mass Effect 3. Cries of “We won!” can already be heard from NeoGAF and Reddit and that FTC guy is happier than a pig in shit.

Not a bug with how the game functioned, he stated they would address the concerns that would give more closure to the story of Mass Effect. Instead of sticking by their original script and design document, they bowed to the vocal minority and gave these people a voice they don’t deserve. There’s a reason the feds don’t negotiate with terrorists: it doesn’t do anyone any good.

If terrorists see that when their peers demand a bus, they get a bus, the next guy to take over a bank will want the bus too. “But you gave it to that last guy, ” they’ll whine. Now, when the ‘passionate’ and ‘vocal’ gamers dislike something, they’ll band together and beat their fists against whatever building is closest to try and bring it down. This group of people is but a small subset of the hundreds of thousands of players who bought the title. As Penny Arcade’s Ben Kuchera wrote, “most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there’s a controversy at all.”

......
......

http://splitkick.com/bioware-ruined-video-games/

" This isn’t a post about how an entitled mass decided to petition BioWare to change that ending,"

Oh wait, yeah it is.

 

[Raxus]

it's a shame that videogame journalists loyalty is to the publisher and not their readers, but i guess thats where the money is.

I does explain why no game ever goes below a 6-7 everywhere.

Them hats made of money.

 

[MC Safety]

As Penny Arcade’s Ben Kuchera wrote, “most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there’s a controversy at all.”

But I'd wager a great lot of them who finished the game are puzzled, disappointed, confused, or angered about how it ended.

The outrage is coming from a small subset of the game community. But that doesn't mean Mass Effect's ending is good.

I does explain why no game ever goes below a 6-7 everywhere.

Them hats made of money.

And it's not moneyhats but a combination of a sort of mass hysteria, an inability to separate quality from hype, and a dearth of critical thinking/writing ability.

I don't want to point fingers at my former co-workers, but one of them suggested his major issue with Mass Effect 3 was its broken quest log. When you can be, ah, that dismissive of a game's problems in favor of blind and overeager worship, you know you've made it as a hardly exceptional video game critic.

 

[Tony Redgrave]

But I'd wager a great lot of them who finished the game are puzzled, disappointed, confused, or angered about how it ended.

The outrage is coming from a small subset of the game community. But that doesn't mean Mass Effect's ending is good.

I'm pretty sure of this as well.
I've always liked how , when someone bashes the argument of some "vocal minority" they assume the "silent majority" agree with them, there are many people who are going to be disappointed and/or frustrated with the ending but they don't go into Internet sites etc...that much.

 

[Shake Appeal]

"Most people probably didn't notice how bad it was" is not an adequate defence of anything.

 

[dragonelite]

We should make a front called.
"If games are Art stop making fucking day 1 dlc or dlc ever"

Because im not sure but have writers and painters ever released a unfinished book/painting to later sell you the unfinished parts?

But i think we already have had this kind of discussion.

 

[dragonelite]

"Most people probably didn't notice how bad it was" is not an adequate defence of anything.

Most people have a difficult time doing simple arithmetic after they are finished with school.
Im talking about simple arithmetic not algebra.

 

[Rebel Leader]

The people in the thread asking "if ME3 controversial ending will prevent them...."(sorry on wii but you know the thread)" have no idea. May Magic Child have.... NO MERCY on their souls >=)

 

[Arjen]

The people in the thread asking "if ME3 controversial ending will prevent them...."(sorry on wii but you know the thread)" have no idea. May Magic Child have.... NO MERCY on their souls >=)

It's like looking at myself in the past, i couldn't believe it was that bad, i mean i suffered trough Lost, BSG and Sopranos. I think i saw it all, but when the credits roll, oh man, i never felt so bad about an ending before.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Anyone have a screencap or text of Weekes' post? thanks

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

It's like looking at myself in the past, i couldn't believe it was that bad, i mean i suffered trough Lost, BSG and Sopranos. I think i saw it all, but when the credits roll, oh man, i never felt so bad about an ending before.

Same here, before the ending I thought all people were overreacting, I even stated it in the amazon thread. It couldnt be worse than a dream sequence finale or some shit like that.
But then the reality hit me at 6am in the morning that horrible day, with a game I had enjoyed do much, the fucking 4 minute star child ruining the whole saga.

Dont take me wrong, I still love the 3 mass effect games, and im not going to sell them or some shit like that, becuase I had some of my favourite times in gaming with them, but that ending is just, arg.

 

[Salaadin]

It's like looking at myself in the past, i couldn't believe it was that bad, i mean i suffered trough Lost, BSG and Sopranos. I think i saw it all, but when the credits roll, oh man, i never felt so bad about an ending before.

I thought everything was blown out of proportion until I beat it. The funny thing is that it didnt really set in until a few hours after and then, as each day went by, I disliked it more and more. I think thats because I started reading about the theories and broken lore, plot holes, etc. The lameness of it really shows.

Off topic but I loved BSG. Start to finish, ending included.

 

[danwarb]

If the Space Kid/Reaper was manipulating Shepard in the end to get him to do anything but destroy them, then I'm fine with most of the ending as it is.

Would've liked a better explanation for the Reapers.

 

[Haunted]

I don't even know if I'd agree with the common sentiment that only the ending sucks and all the 30 hours before it are amazazing.

I didn't like most of the story and mechanical elements that ME3 brought to the table.
Story:

• Crucible + Catalyst: They constantly stress the scale and importance of the project but don't provide the setup or context necessary to appreciate it as such, which ultimately unmasks it as the shallow deus ex machina inserted by the writers it really is.
• Kai Leng: Terrible character. ME's version of Jar-Jar Binks. Annoying and out of place.
• The Illusive Man: Completely forgotten for a large part of the story after being so integral in ME2, suddenly appearing at the end only to be thrown aside 5 minutes later. What a waste of a potentially interesting villain.
• Shepard's reaction to the kid and the dreams: These hokey attempts at characterisation caused a pretty heavy disconnect with "my" Shepard. My renegade Shep is a colonist dick and doesn't give a shit about either that kid, or earth for that matter. ME3 seems more like Bioware's Shepard than previous games which is probably the biggest offense of them all.

Mechanics:

• War Assets: reducing pretty much all of your choices to numbers in a green progress bar. What a terrific way to reduce and dampen the impact of pretty much every potentially interesting choice made in the game. Was thrilled to find Zaaed in my game (one of my favourite ME2 characters) only to have him disappear into my progress bar as a "25". What shit.
• Benny Hill Reaper Chase on the Galaxy Map: Pretty silly, inoffensive (since it's easily circumvented), but you do have to wonder why they thought this would add to the experience at all. Similarly misdirected as adding tower defence to Assassin's Creed.
• Scanning minigame redux: WHY!? Well, it's better than in ME2 (so is jabbing needles into my dick though), but still a meaningless and ultimately boring time-waster. Made even worse due to the lack of feedback in some star systems, was ting even more time.

Nitpicking aside, ME3 feeds off the setups in the first two games, runs with some and squanders others. Provides the strongest shooting mechanics but the most shallow/limited roleplaying mechanics in the series.

High production values ensure that I can't really call it a bad game and I still liked my time with it, but it's definitely one of these cases where the longer you think about it, the worse all the small problems get and add up.

 

[Arjen]

Nah, i still feel the rest of the game is amazing.
That mission on Tuchanka might even be one of my favorite missions ever.

 

[Moaradin]

Nah, i still feel the rest of the game is amazing.
That mission on Tuchanka might even be one of my favorite missions ever.

Pretty much all the main missions (Tuchanka, Rannoch, etc.) are the best in the series.

 

[Derrick01]

In ME3 he wrote the intro level, most of TIM's dialogue, Vega, and the final ending segment.

So what you're saying is he has no writing ability whatsoever. Those are the worst parts of the game right there.

 

[Jintor]

They're not all amazing in and of themselves though, they're amazing because they're the climax points of a series-long narrative.

If I had no emotional investment in Mordin, Thane, Tali or Legion those missions would have kind of come right out of nowhere and meant not a lot. As it stands they're not developed sufficiently on their own in 3; it's all spillover character love from 2.

It's still pretty fucking good though.

 

[Moaradin]

They're not all amazing in and of themselves though, they're amazing because they're the climax points of a series-long narrative.

If I had no emotional investment in Mordin, Thane, Tali or Legion those missions would have kind of come right out of nowhere and meant not a lot.

There are lots of amazing smaller moments too. Liara's time capsule and the Garrus shooting contest are probably the two most popular ones.

Did the writer who did LotSB have any involvement in the character dialogue? I felt it had the same great quality a lot of the times.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Pretty much sums up my feelings, Haunted. When I think of the game's story, it's a big blur, really. Tuchanka and Rannoch stand out, and I liked some of the character interactions, but the rest is pretty much... just there.

Such a shame. The genophage cure and Legion's death are perfect Mass Effect moments, where everything - the music, the dialogue, the visuals - just clicks. but the rest of the story is so damn poor that I'm not sure I'll ever replay the game again. A true ending, where assets would have amounted to more than mere numbers, would indeed have made most of these grievances go away.

The gameplay is still fun, and I still play multiplayer once in a while. But this game could have been so much more.

Did the writer who did LotSB have any involvement in the character dialogue? I felt it had the same great quality a lot of the times.

He wrote the party banter, IIRC.

 

[Jintor]

I am honestly tempted to do another runthrough just to take Javik and Garrus with me everywhere. Javik because he will troll the shit out of people. Garrus because his voice actor is boss and Garrus himself is also boss.

 

[Sojgat]

I thought everything was blown out of proportion until I beat it. The funny thing is that it didnt really set in until a few hours after and then, as each day went by, I disliked it more and more. I think thats because I started reading about the theories and broken lore, plot holes, etc. The lameness of it really shows.

Off topic but I loved BSG. Start to finish, ending included.

BSG ending was my previous worst of all time until Mass effect 3. Similar experiences where something I loved was ruined in the final moments to the point where I never want to revisit it.

 

[Trey]

KL and Jar Jar Binks aren't even close to the same thing.

 

[Haunted]

Yes absolutely, the party banter and some of the character writing are outstanding (again). I feel that Mordin is one of the most interesting characters Bioware has ever created, and can stand as a poster boy of good writing and characterisation in games. Very good.

KL and Jar Jar Binks aren't even close to the same thing.

They're both annoying and feel out of place, that's enough to draw the similarity. A sword-wielding space assassins might sound fun on paper, but he is completely misplaced considering the tone of the game. He could've been a boss in Deus Ex or something.

 

[Zomba13]

We should make a front called.
"If games are Art stop making fucking day 1 dlc or dlc ever"

Because im not sure but have writers and painters ever released a unfinished book/painting to later sell you the unfinished parts?

But i think we already have had this kind of discussion.

I really honestly am confused by all the people saying that the game is art and you don't change art. I mean, they do know about the day one DLC and the advert at the end asking you to buy more DLC that is coming right?

 

[.GqueB.]

and an article for the entitled terrorists

BioWare Ruined Video Games

This is not a post about how the ending of Mass Effect 3 was terrible and how they deserve to burn for what they committed to disc. This isn’t a post about how an entitled mass decided to petition BioWare to change that ending, nor is it a post about that guy and how he complained to the FTC because he didn’t like the end of a story.

This is a post about how BioWare ruined everything.

Ray Muzyka issued a statement today in response to those who were voicing their discontent. Instead of just saying something like “I’m sorry you didn’t like it guys,” or “hey, it was written like that because,” Muzyka said that they will make changes to the ending of Mass Effect 3. Cries of “We won!” can already be heard from NeoGAF and Reddit and that FTC guy is happier than a pig in shit.

Not a bug with how the game functioned, he stated they would address the concerns that would give more closure to the story of Mass Effect. Instead of sticking by their original script and design document, they bowed to the vocal minority and gave these people a voice they don’t deserve. There’s a reason the feds don’t negotiate with terrorists: it doesn’t do anyone any good.

If terrorists see that when their peers demand a bus, they get a bus, the next guy to take over a bank will want the bus too. “But you gave it to that last guy, ” they’ll whine. Now, when the ‘passionate’ and ‘vocal’ gamers dislike something, they’ll band together and beat their fists against whatever building is closest to try and bring it down. This group of people is but a small subset of the hundreds of thousands of players who bought the title. As Penny Arcade’s Ben Kuchera wrote, “most of the people who played Mass Effect 3 have no idea there’s a controversy at all.”

......
......

http://splitkick.com/bioware-ruined-video-games/

Doesn't this depend on the developer though? I think Bioware may be fucked moving forward because they've been shown to cave but another developer may be able to stick to their guns better and not give fans what they want (if the fans, of course, are unhappy).

This is like saying a terrorist demanded a bus in France and got a bus, then another terrorist demanded a bus in the United States and got a bus because of the fact that the terrorist in France got the bus so the United States was required to give in. It doesn't work that way. Every developer will react differently to such challenges. This isn't going to be some industry wide thing I'm sure.

 

[Arjen]

So, i'm going trough the Final Hours app, and i agree the IT doesn't seemed to be planned at all, i still think this is weird though.

In both scenes your squadmates are obviously dead, so the jungle planet scene makes no sense at al if they step out. It's kinda hard to believe they would overlook such a thing.

 

[Sojgat]

What happens to the artistic integrity argument if this turns out to have been planned all along. FFXIII-2 has downloadable endings and Mass Effect armor DLC. Conspiracy?

 

[.GqueB.]

I am honestly tempted to do another runthrough just to take Javik and Garrus with me everywhere. Javik because he will troll the shit out of people. Garrus because his voice actor is boss and Garrus himself is also boss.

He was always the worst on my team. I have no idea how to use him. My combo was always Ashley or James + whatever support character I needed for the mission:

Liara for reapers
EDI for Cerberus
Tali for the Geth/Cerberus
Javik for the lulz

Garrus was always useless. Maybe it was because I was Biotic.

 

[Rapstah]

So, i'm going trough the Final Hours app, and i agree the IT doesn't seemed to be planned at all, i still think this is weird though.

In both scenes your squadmates are obviously dead, so the jungle planet scene makes no sense at al if they step out. It's kinda hard to believe they would overlook such a thing.

Your squadmates only die if you have low EMS in the final game, and in those cases they haven't been reliably documented to step out of the ship.

 

[Trey]

They're both annoying and feel out of place, that's enough to draw the similarity.

It's not, and even if it were, Kai Leng fits in about as much as Thane does from a lore standpoint. Whether he's annoying to you or not is your preference. Furthermore, he's simply an antagonist who does TIM's bidding. His character is a complete cliche (which is also next to nothing) and is suitable because you kill him on merely your third brief encounter. It's not like KL was an offensive fish person that got significant screen time.

 

[Patryn]

What happens to the artistic integrity argument if this turns out to have been planned all along. FFXIII-2 has downloadable endings and Mass Effect armor DLC. Conspiracy?

Except that we have evidence from multiple sources that it's not a conspiracy, and the ending is exactly what was planned to be the ending.

You might as well ask what you'd do if you had a unicorn.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

In a different note, Im going to give a big thumps up for how the romance relation was handed in ME3. At last it feels that the romance is part of the whole game and not only a small part, something I always hated in games like mass effect or Persona. Yeah you got the cutscene, how the character liked you in that scene and then nothing, puff. The charcter doesnt behave any different in the rest of the game, nor the other NPC knew about the realtion.

In ME3, you knew from start to finish that the character you romanced was in love with you, because all the dialogs and interactions changed throught the game, not only that but also other NPCs knew about it.

I know that for some people its only a trivial thing, but I think it added a great inmmersion during the game and it felt great.
Now I know that kind of interactions are possible (I thought the developers didnt want to add them becuase it was too time consuming and possibly expensive for them to do) and Im looking forward to other games trying to emulate that feel.

 

[Sojgat]

Except that we have evidence from multiple sources that it's not a conspiracy, and the ending is exactly what was planned to be the ending.

You might as well ask what you'd do if you had a unicorn.

I know

 

[UnluckyKate]

God that Vega/Garrus pun battle had my dying

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

You know...it's not so much the ending that is terrible...although it's definitely not good.

It's the effort they invested on certain aspects of the game that is so fucking terrible. There are things present that they clearly just phoned it in.

and for the "art" thing.

SOME games are art.

Bioware games will NEVER be art.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Well....atleast the ending lived up to the name of the game..


Look at how many therads there are. :lol

 

[GuardianE]

I just finished the ending last night. Digested it for a bit.

Then I went into this thread, read through some of it, and came across the Indoctrination Theory: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1&sle=true#

Forgive me, as I'm sure this has been rehashed several times, but as a general consensus, why do people believe that the Indoctrination Theory isn't an appropriate interpretation? I think that a lot of the above document's more subtle observations can be chalked up to poor writing/planning/nitpicking, but there are several specific points that stand out to me as impossible to be coincidence (Black veins on screen, Shepard's gunshot wound, the Child's dialogue being spoken by Shep/Femshep at the same time, etc.)

Also, what does your EMS actually change for the final confrontation?

 

[Trey]

Please don't start this "which games are art?" bullshit. That debate is a plague on this industry.

 

[Derrick01]

I just finished the ending last night. Digested it for a bit.

Then I went into this thread, read through some of it, and came across the Indoctrination Theory: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1&sle=true#

Forgive me, as I'm sure this has been rehashed several times, but as a general consensus, why do people believe that the Indoctrination Theory isn't an appropriate interpretation? I think that a lot of the above document's more subtle observations can be chalked up to poor writing/planning/nitpicking, but there are several specific points that stand out to me as impossible to be coincidence (Black veins on screen, Shepard's gunshot wound, the Child's dialogue being spoken by Shep/Femshep at the same time, etc.)

Also, what does your EMS actually change for the final confrontation?

People tend to discredit the indoctrination theory because

1) It gives Bioware more credit than they deserve. It assumes they planned this out from the beginning when Mac Walters is a hack and when...

2) We have proof from previous statements and that ipad app that the ending we got is what they intended. They wanted a way to permanently close the series, or at least make it incredibly tough to make a sequel. The main Bioware team wants to move on to other stuff.

 

[KingItachi]

I just finished the ending last night. Digested it for a bit.

Then I went into this thread, read through some of it, and came across the Indoctrination Theory: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1&sle=true#

Forgive me, as I'm sure this has been rehashed several times, but as a general consensus, why do people believe that the Indoctrination Theory isn't an appropriate interpretation? I think that a lot of the above document's more subtle observations can be chalked up to poor writing/planning/nitpicking, but there are several specific points that stand out to me as impossible to be coincidence (Black veins on screen, Shepard's gunshot wound, the Child's dialogue being spoken by Shep/Femshep at the same time, etc.)

Also, what does your EMS actually change for the final confrontation?

with 5000+ EMS Anderson can be saved and if you choose destroy option you see shep gasp for breath in a scene

 

[Patryn]

with 5000+ EMS Anderson can be saved and if you choose destroy option you see shep gasp for breath in a scene

Nope, nope, nope.

Anderson dies no matter what. He can be saved from execution if you're used either Paragon and/or Renegade options in every single one of your prior conversations with the TIM. You talk TIM into committing suicide. But he still dies after talking with Shep. But that stuff has nothing to do with the EMS.

 

[NightAntilli]

You know...it's not so much the ending that is terrible...although it's definitely not good.

It's the effort they invested on certain aspects of the game that is so fucking terrible. There are things present that they clearly just phoned it in.

and for the "art" thing.

SOME games are art.

Bioware games will NEVER be art.

What games would you consider art then, and what do those game have that BioWare games don't? And don't forget that ME3 had the shortest development cycle of all of them.