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Mass Effect |OT| Alien love in an elevator
- Thread starter Mr. Spinnington
- Start date
Wow, such a letdown for me. I made the mistake of buying a 360 for this and blue dragon. BLue Dragon was just too kiddy, and Mass effect is simply not as deep as a bioware game should be. It feels like all my choices seem to have very little impact at all into the story. Granted I am 4 hours in. But don't make the same depth as bioware's pc games. It is very dumbed down.
Lostconfused
Member
And it all comes back to BG2 again.
Lostconfused
Member
So answer me this, why is neverwinter nights ignored?
I mean common
DnD rule set - check
Forgotten Realms - check
Named after a city - check
Multiple expansions - check
Released only on PC - check
I mean common
DnD rule set - check
Forgotten Realms - check
Named after a city - check
Multiple expansions - check
Released only on PC - check
Lostconfused
Member
Kintaro said:
Well its just that the argument seems to go BG2 the game that bioware made for PC is much better then anything on consoles, conveniently ignoring NWN. Thus the reasoning that they dumbed it all down for the consoles is somewhat faulty. Maybe its just that BG2 was their high point and they will never reach something like that again.
Edit: Oh and Bioware isn't involved with NWN2.
Lostconfused
Member
Monk said:
Oh yes it is a great tool set and it spawned many mods, but then again the same can be said for Bethesda.
But wasnt NWN supposed to be their next big game after BG2, so why didn't it live up to such a gold standard.
JayDubya said:Weak story - check.
I am not defending NWN, i am just saying that bioware didnt suddenly turn to shit or they are making sacrifices just because they are making console games.
Lostconfused said:
Fair enough.
I actually think KotOR was great, but it did obviously sacrifice complexity for mainstream accessibility, and volume of content for cinematic flair.
The saving grace of KotOR was that it was well worth replaying many times over.
With a new game + mode and all those achievements, I'm reasonably confidant Mass Effect will be at least as replay-worthy as KotOR.
I don't expect Mass Effect to match up with BG2.
I AM hoping Dragon Age will be more along those lines, however.
Lostconfused
Member
Monk said:
Well i guess you haven't seen some of the mods for morrowind. But really this isn't your original argument.
JayDubya said:
KOTOR was worth replaying because of the choices and the classes, by adding NEW GAME+ i don't see how they can achieve anything less then something equal like that (unless they really screw up the story, but all indicators point to no on that one).
Lostconfused said:
Yes, i have. As far as i know, there uis a user createde island people can dl? Am i wrong? Other than that there is nothing but hacks and ui mods as far as i know. Infact TWO user created campaigns were so popular bioware bought the rights to them and sold them as addons.
EDIT: Anyway, i'll drop it. If you cant see that they have compromised their games due to the console userbase, i dont think there is anything i can really prove that will convince you otherwise.
Lostconfused
Member
Monk said:
NVM on the first part.
I wasnt arguing with you about pc to console transition, but about NWN and how you ignore it (and still do) and not about the aurora tool set.
Lostconfused
Member
Monk said:
Ok so bioware quit making games after BG2, got it.
Lostconfused
Member
Monk said:I never said that, they made console games after all.
Yeah, but i was getting at that NWN wasn't a game, and considering the whole structure of the game it was a really lazy attempt.
Monk said:
I don't think it's about the games being "console games," though. Didn't Bioware specifically say they'd never create a game with as much content as BG2 after its release or something to that effect? And haven't they made PC games since with the same "problems" in Jade Empire and Mass Effect that you're citing here?
plaidtopia
Member
Not that anyone probably cares to watch due to HUGE spoilers (I'm staying away), the guy who's been entertaining the Rock Band thread the past two days with a live stream of his gameplay has now moved on to Mass Effect:
mms://stream.vg/waffle
Obviously, watch at your own risk.
mms://stream.vg/waffle
Obviously, watch at your own risk.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Great! But....plaidtopia said:
the conversations seem "bit" boring and generally love long lines of discussion in RPGs :/
Maybe its because I have missed all the character developement etc. but still
edit:
HAHA oh wow, the player in the stream kept shooting civilians with her rifle and ran to a discussion with a certain blueskinned woman. Womans reaction was just "oh hello, thank you for everything you have done!" Cracked me up
Monk said:
I don't think we'll ever get a game like BG2 again sadly. The difference now is game worlds as unique and full of characters as BG2s can't be generated in a 3D setting without a company spending thousands of hours putting it all together.
The beauty with old games, especially using the Infinity Engine is the user didn't expect too much in the way of graphics, now users expect rediculous animation, amazing backgrounds, high-res characters, fully voice acted parts and that all comes at a price, which is time and money. If it doesn't have these things, the game won't sell.
That's my feeling anyway. Personally I wish Bioware would go back to the old Infinity Engine and make a new Balders Gate. :lol
Monk said:
Are u sure? I suggest you to complete the game (if possible in 2 different ways/char) before say that
Of course it's a game much more accesible but this don't mean no depth
Look at their facial movements, look at their eyes. You see BioWar's signature in everythings.
Finally I suppose that the twist plot, if there is, it will be near the end.
Can anyone post-prestige class answer this?
Does the prestige talent override the class talent? For example, if I'm a Vanguard (class talent = bonus to shotgun) and I switch to Nemesis, I read that the Nemesis talent overwrites the Vanguard talent. Since Nemesis lacks a Shotgun bonus, would my Shotgun skill effectively decrease once I become a Nemesis?
Those are exactly my thoughts, for all the time they have to spend on graphics, back then they could spend alot of that time on content.FFChris said:
Btw, you guys should read this: the history of bioware
Pretty nice article. They call Dragon Age, a "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate. That game was barely on my radar until i read that.
Hey, I have a question which might be crucial for me, to buy this game -
Do you guys who have played, or play the game, notice a Perry Rhodan-ish feeling?
I was wondering that, because Perry Rhodan is one of my favourite Sci-Fi stories, and it'd be an instant buy, if the atmosphere of the game comes close to the PR-books.
Do you guys who have played, or play the game, notice a Perry Rhodan-ish feeling?
I was wondering that, because Perry Rhodan is one of my favourite Sci-Fi stories, and it'd be an instant buy, if the atmosphere of the game comes close to the PR-books.
syllogism said:
In relation to gameplay, there isn't a lot really. There is a lot about the world there though.
The spiritual successor to Balders Gate, I fail to see how that can be bad. Though it doesn't seem to be based on D&D rules. Hopefully this will come to the 360, if not, my PC might have to be upgraded to support it.
Alrighty. Found out more info on classes, abilities, and the other point of interest I was asking about. Spoilered for those that insist.
Other fun facts, shamelessly stolen from Brimmstone's post on Gamespot's forums.
Paragon / Renegade Mechanical Affects
Class Talent Tree Info
Soldier Talents:
Soldier, Pistol (4 points to unlock Shotgun), Assault Rifle (7 points to unlock Sniper Rifle), Combat Armor (6 points to unlock First Aid), Assault Training (6 points to unlock Fitness)
Engineer Talents:
Engineer, Pistol (6 points to unlock Basic Armor), Decryption (7 points to unlock Hacking), Electronics (4 points to unlock Damping), First Aid (5 points to unlock Medicine)
Adept Talents:
Adept, Basic Armor (5 points to unlock Pistol), Throw (6 points to unlock Lift), Warp (7 points to unlock Singularity), Barrier (4 points to unlock Stasis)
Infiltrator Talents:
Infiltrator, Pistols (5 points to unlock Sniper Rifle), Tactical Armor (6 points to unlock Fitness), Electronics (4 points to unlock Damping), Decryption (7 points to unlock First Aid)
Vanguard Talents:
Vanguard, Pistol (6 points to unlock Shotgun), Assault Training (x points to unlock Tactical Armor), Throw (7 points to unlock Lift), Warp (4 points to unlock Barrier)
Sentinel Talents:
Sentinel, Throw (7 points to unlock Lift), Barrier (6 points to unlock Stasis), Decryption (4 points to unlock Electronics), First Aid (5 points to unlock Medicine)
* * *
Interestingly, this does NOT match up with the Galactic Codex Entry for Fields of Discipline.
So, what's different?
* Soldier had Fitness as a starter and Assault Training as an unlockable - that flip-flopped.
* Engineer has been changed a bit, perhaps just the names - instead of "Shielding and Reverse Engineering," they get "Damping and Hacking" as unlockable talents. Infiltrator also gets Damping instead of Shielding, now.
* Vanguard no longer gets Fitness. Instead, they get Assault Training.
* Sentinel used to have Electronics as a prereq for Decryption. Now, it's the other way around.
Specialized Classes
You put ranks in these specialized class talents to get passive improvements in specific areas. Shock trooper is ideal for me.
Shock Trooper (Soldier, Vanguard) - Shock troopers are highly trained killing machines; they excel in all combat situations.
Increase health
Increase damage protection
Improve Immunity (Fitness) *
Improve Barrier *
Improve Adrenaline burst (Assault Training) *
* If applicable. Soldiers don't get Barrier, and Vanguards don't get Fitness*
Commando (Soldier, Infiltrator) - Commandos rely on lethal efficiency and precision strikes rather then brute force to eliminate their opponents.
Increase weapon damage
Improve Immunity (Fitness)
Improve Marksman (Pistol)
Improve Assassination (Sniper Rifle)
Operative (Engineer, Infilitrator) Operatives are masters at manipulating their environment to maximum advantages.
Reduce recharge time for Tech abilities
Improve Overload
Improve Sabotage
Medic (Engineer, Sentinel) Medics combine tech and healing abilities to boost the efficiency of the entire squad.
*These details are sketchy*
Reduce recharge time for healing talents
Improve First Aid
Improve Neural Shock
Nemesis (Adept, Vanguard) The Nemesis is a biotic specialist who uses mass effect fields to inflict heavy damage against opponents.
Increase duration and damage for all biotic abilities
Improve Warp
Improve Lift
Bastion (Adept, Sentinel) Bastions use Biotics for defense or for opponent immobilization.
Reduce recharge time for biotic abilities
Improve Barrier
Improve Stasis (allows you to attack foes in stasis fields!)
You put ranks in these specialized class talents to get passive improvements in specific areas. Shock trooper is ideal for me.
Shock Trooper (Soldier, Vanguard) - Shock troopers are highly trained killing machines; they excel in all combat situations.
Increase health
Increase damage protection
Improve Immunity (Fitness) *
Improve Barrier *
Improve Adrenaline burst (Assault Training) *
* If applicable. Soldiers don't get Barrier, and Vanguards don't get Fitness*
Commando (Soldier, Infiltrator) - Commandos rely on lethal efficiency and precision strikes rather then brute force to eliminate their opponents.
Increase weapon damage
Improve Immunity (Fitness)
Improve Marksman (Pistol)
Improve Assassination (Sniper Rifle)
Operative (Engineer, Infilitrator) Operatives are masters at manipulating their environment to maximum advantages.
Reduce recharge time for Tech abilities
Improve Overload
Improve Sabotage
Medic (Engineer, Sentinel) Medics combine tech and healing abilities to boost the efficiency of the entire squad.
*These details are sketchy*
Reduce recharge time for healing talents
Improve First Aid
Improve Neural Shock
Nemesis (Adept, Vanguard) The Nemesis is a biotic specialist who uses mass effect fields to inflict heavy damage against opponents.
Increase duration and damage for all biotic abilities
Improve Warp
Improve Lift
Bastion (Adept, Sentinel) Bastions use Biotics for defense or for opponent immobilization.
Reduce recharge time for biotic abilities
Improve Barrier
Improve Stasis (allows you to attack foes in stasis fields!)
Other fun facts, shamelessly stolen from Brimmstone's post on Gamespot's forums.
Paragon / Renegade Mechanical Affects
Background
Earthbound - Grants a Renegade point bonus
Spacer - Grants Paragon point bonus
Colonist - Grants part Paragon and part Renegade point bonus
Psychological Profile
Ruthless - Grants a Renegade point bonus
War Hero - Grants Paragon point bonus
Sole Survivor - Grants part Paragon and part Renegade point bonus
Paragon Level bonuses
5% - Opens 2 charm ranks, gives 1 free charm point
25% - Opens 2 charm ranks, gives 1 charm point, 10% first aid cooldown
50% - 10% Bonus health
75% - Achievement, opens 2 charm ranks, gives 1 free charm point and 5% reduction in cooldown on all powers.
Renegade Level Bonuses
5% - Opens 2 intimidate ranks, gives 1 intimidate point
25% - Opens 2 intimidate ranks, gives 1 intimidate point, 10% reduction in weapon powers cooldown
50% - 1 health regeneration per second
75% - Achievement, opens 2 intimidate ranks, gives 1 intimidate point, 5% increase in damage/duration on all weapons and powers
Earthbound - Grants a Renegade point bonus
Spacer - Grants Paragon point bonus
Colonist - Grants part Paragon and part Renegade point bonus
Psychological Profile
Ruthless - Grants a Renegade point bonus
War Hero - Grants Paragon point bonus
Sole Survivor - Grants part Paragon and part Renegade point bonus
Paragon Level bonuses
5% - Opens 2 charm ranks, gives 1 free charm point
25% - Opens 2 charm ranks, gives 1 charm point, 10% first aid cooldown
50% - 10% Bonus health
75% - Achievement, opens 2 charm ranks, gives 1 free charm point and 5% reduction in cooldown on all powers.
Renegade Level Bonuses
5% - Opens 2 intimidate ranks, gives 1 intimidate point
25% - Opens 2 intimidate ranks, gives 1 intimidate point, 10% reduction in weapon powers cooldown
50% - 1 health regeneration per second
75% - Achievement, opens 2 intimidate ranks, gives 1 intimidate point, 5% increase in damage/duration on all weapons and powers
Class Talent Tree Info
Soldier Talents:
Soldier, Pistol (4 points to unlock Shotgun), Assault Rifle (7 points to unlock Sniper Rifle), Combat Armor (6 points to unlock First Aid), Assault Training (6 points to unlock Fitness)
Engineer Talents:
Engineer, Pistol (6 points to unlock Basic Armor), Decryption (7 points to unlock Hacking), Electronics (4 points to unlock Damping), First Aid (5 points to unlock Medicine)
Adept Talents:
Adept, Basic Armor (5 points to unlock Pistol), Throw (6 points to unlock Lift), Warp (7 points to unlock Singularity), Barrier (4 points to unlock Stasis)
Infiltrator Talents:
Infiltrator, Pistols (5 points to unlock Sniper Rifle), Tactical Armor (6 points to unlock Fitness), Electronics (4 points to unlock Damping), Decryption (7 points to unlock First Aid)
Vanguard Talents:
Vanguard, Pistol (6 points to unlock Shotgun), Assault Training (x points to unlock Tactical Armor), Throw (7 points to unlock Lift), Warp (4 points to unlock Barrier)
Sentinel Talents:
Sentinel, Throw (7 points to unlock Lift), Barrier (6 points to unlock Stasis), Decryption (4 points to unlock Electronics), First Aid (5 points to unlock Medicine)
* * *
Interestingly, this does NOT match up with the Galactic Codex Entry for Fields of Discipline.
So, what's different?
* Soldier had Fitness as a starter and Assault Training as an unlockable - that flip-flopped.
* Engineer has been changed a bit, perhaps just the names - instead of "Shielding and Reverse Engineering," they get "Damping and Hacking" as unlockable talents. Infiltrator also gets Damping instead of Shielding, now.
* Vanguard no longer gets Fitness. Instead, they get Assault Training.
* Sentinel used to have Electronics as a prereq for Decryption. Now, it's the other way around.
BrokenSymmetry
Member
bcn-ron said:
Yes, it can. For me, in a story-driven game, "depth" is for a big part determined by how much a game is able to convey the emotions of the characters. Facial animation is a very big part of that. Especially in an RPG where you have to feel that the decisions you make in the game are actually important to the other characters in the game.
