Mass shooting at Brown campus in progress

Just had the weirdest reaction to this.

Saw the post and instantly thought "On a Saturday?", like there's some rule that you can't have mass shootings on the weekend.

Fucking horrible to say, but there's a feeling of desensitization happening and there shouldn't be. This should be and is a shocking event that should never happen and never be normal.

I hope the suspect is down.
 
falconhoof said:
Just had the weirdest reaction to this.

Saw the post and instantly thought "On a Saturday?", like there's some rule that you can't have mass shootings on the weekend.

Fucking horrible to say, but there's a feeling of desensitization happening and there shouldn't be. This should be and is a shocking event that should never happen and never be normal.

I hope the suspect is down.
Click to expand...

Not alone. I had a similar thought, although mine was more along the lines of "It's a school. There's a shooting on a Saturday? Oh, well, it's a college, so I guess the dynamic is a little different." Too nonplussed.

I remember a car ride... last year(?) I had with a friend where we were listening to the radio and heard news break on a shooting and I said something along the lines of
"Isn't that the second one this week?"
"Yeah."
"... It's fucked how unimpressed I am by this."
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
As an avid gun owner I don't even know what the answer is to stop this now with the huge number of guns and violent people on our streets
Click to expand...

Even though i an pro stricter gun laws or even completely ban them, these people are mentally unstable and they could very well make multiple types of bombs that are as lethal.
 
Embearded said:
Even though i an pro stricter gun laws or even completely ban them, these people are mentally unstable and they could very well make multiple types of bombs that are as lethal.
Click to expand...
I am all for tighter gun laws problem is the criminals aren't going to care and there is just no way to get all guns off our streets now

Like I say I don't know what the right answer is, I am afraid this country is too far gone in this regard

winjer said:
I know you will disagree a lot. But the answer is gun control.
Click to expand...

As in take them away from everyone?

100% would cause a Civil War here
 
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winjer said:
I know you will disagree a lot. But the answer is gun control.
Click to expand...

Even if they started restricting sales tomorrow (with psych and criminal checks) there are TONS of guns in the hands of population already:

The U.S. has more civilian-owned guns than people, with estimates around 400-500 million firearms, or roughly 120 guns per 100 people, the world's highest rate, though only about a third of Americans own guns, with many owning multiple, and nearly half of households having at least one
Click to expand...

But I think it would still be better than leaving the system in current state.
 

December 13, 6:05pm:

At 4:22 p.m., we alerted our campus to an active shooter incident near Barus & Holley Engineering. We informed our community to shelter in place by locking doors, silence phones and stay hidden until further notice. This remains an active crime scene, and law enforcement continues to search for the suspect. The situation is ongoing, and all members of the community should continue to shelter in place.

We are very sorry to share that we have confirmed reports of multiple shooting victims, but we are not able to share their condition. They have been transported to local hospitals.

Our first priority is the safety of our community and coordinating closely with local law enforcement and medical personnel to ensure their safety. We are working immediately to determine who was in the building at the time of the shooting. We had multiple exams scheduled in that building from 2 pm to 5 pm. We can confirm that support services are on site.

Senior administrative leaders from across the university are convened in emergency command to mobilize ongoing response and support for our community. We are establishing support for our community and families.

We have been and continue to be very grateful to law enforcement and emergency medical personnel. We have relocated students to get support services at a secure location.

Please continue to take all steps to remain safe. Follow the instructions of law enforcement personnel and avoid the area.
 
winjer said:
I know you will disagree a lot. But the answer is gun control.
Click to expand...
It is not. The US has existed for 250 years with the same gun culture since the nation was founded but mass shootings didn't become a real problem until the last 20 or so years. This coincides with a number of changes to how crime is punished and mental health treatment is no longer required or involves mandatory confinement

What I'm saying is the guns have been here all along but the mass shootings only became a problem more recently, so maybe let's understand why and fix what caused those to happen
 
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Unknown Soldier said:
It is not. The US has existed for 250 years with the same gun culture since the nation was founded but mass shootings didn't become a real problem until the last 20 or so years. This coincides with a number of changes to how crime is punished and mental health treatment is no longer required or involves mandatory confinement
Click to expand...

Mass shootings became a thing since the 70s.
Not that there wasn't gun violence before. For example, during the prohibition.
 
Sad. And sending love and thoughts to the effected and their families ❤️

Tough to see as someone on the outside of these crazy events. It always amazes me that stricter gun control doesn't seem to ever gain much traction. Or certain weapons aren't restricted

I mean I am not saying take them away. As that's never going to happen.

I just see these horrific events and nothing seems to get done (and arm everyone I wouldn't say is a solution, as that's pretty much what it looks like just now)
 
winjer said:
Mass shootings became a thing since the 70s.
Not that there wasn't gun violence before. For example, during the prohibition.
Click to expand...
You might be interested to know that in the decades of the 1980's and 1990's there were few mass shootings but a large number of serial killers. Since then serial killings have become infrequent but mass shootings have become more frequent

Also there are specific reasons why there might have more gun violence during the Prohibition period and the Vietnam War period and I'll leave it as an exercise for you guys to understand why

BTW the most prevalent form of domestic terrorism in the 1970's wasn't shootings. It was bombings. Google for Weather Underground and you'll learn about a very obscure bit significant part of American history of that era
 
Unknown Soldier said:
You might be interested to know that in the decades of the 1980's and 1990's there were few mass shootings but a large number of serial killers. Since then serial killings have become infrequent but mass shootings have become more frequent

Also there are specific reasons why there might have more gun violence during the Prohibition period and the Vietnam War period and I'll leave it as an exercise for you guys to understand why

BTW the most prevalent form of domestic terrorism in the 1970's wasn't shootings. It was bombings. Google for Weather Underground and you'll learn about a very obscure bit significant part of American history of that era
Click to expand...

You didn't understand. Mass shootings started in the 70s.
I didn't say they peaked during that period.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
They did not. You literally just brought up the 1920's (Prohibition) as an example of a period with a lot of mass shootings
Click to expand...

Are you trying to misconstrude what I said just for the sake of it?
I said mass shootings in the US began in the 70s.
And the reference to the prohibition was as an example to say that there was gun violence before.
 
Press conference going on now

2 confirmed dead, 8 in critical condition

Shooter still at large

Edit- from Brown.edu

December 13, 6:34pm:

We are providing an update to the active shooting situation. We are very sorry to share that we have confirmed reports of two deceased victims from the active shooting situation at the Barus & Holley engineering building.

There are eight additional victims in critical, but stable condition at the hospital. There remains a shelter in place order. The shooter or shooters still are not in custody at this time. Law enforcement is active in the area.

We know there is a lot of fear and concern and uncertainty in the community right now. Law enforcement is actively working to identify the deceased victims, and the hospital personnel also are working to identify those transported to the hospital.

As a reminder, please continue to take all steps to remain safe. Follow the instructions of law enforcement personnel and avoid the area. The safety of our community is foremost.

Any students or Brown community members who were in Barus & Holley at the time of the incident are being asked to contact police if they already have left Barus & Holley.
 
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winjer said:
Are you trying to misconstrude what I said just for the sake of it?
I said mass shootings in the US began in the 70s.
And the reference to the prohibition was as an example to say that there was gun violence before.
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I am not. I'm merely stating facts which contradict your position on gun control

I'm going to be honest here. The US owns 50% of the world's guns held by civilians, the aforementioned 400 million or so. Which is more than the population of the whole country. If guns were directly correlated to crime, then the US must surely have 50% of the world's crime? Well, it doesn't. Not even close. So clearly the presence of guns has little to do with the presence of crime? Maybe there are other factors involved?

About 32% of Americans own at least 1 gun. Roughly 43% of Americans live in a household with a gun. That's nearly half of all Americans, living in a household with a gun. And yet while it is true that America has mass shootings, in other countries instead of mass shootings they have mass casualty attacks caused by car rammings. This is especially a problem in Europe. In fact Europe has car ramming mass casualty attacks more often than America has mass shootings. So is the solution "car control"? Should we start banning cars to prevent these attacks?

America is the world's most wealthy and economically successful country because of its unique culture of individualism, freedom, and ambition. Part of that culture since founding is the right for ordinary citizens to own firearms with few restrictions. The US is the only country on Earth which codifies the right to bear arms into its founding document. The Founding Fathers were quite explicit when they stated the right to bear arms is critical to the maintenance of a free democratic state, even with all the drawbacks of ordinary citizens having weapons of war. Look at the governmental structure of China, the current superpower which compete with he US, for an example otherwise. Look at what is happening in Europe for an example of what happens when citizens have zero power to check the government's power. The US is also the country responsible for 25% of the world's GDP. This is not coincidence. American exceptionalism exists because of the nation's ideals which are quite different from almost every other nation on the Earth and it happens that part of these ideals also involves citizens owning firearms

I'm not going to say much more because I don't want to be banned today but the reality is America is what it is because of it's founding ideals, one of which happens to be enshrinement of the US Second Amendment. 250 years later, the unique US gun culture remains as strong as it was since the nation was founded. If you think the 32% of Americans, fully 1 in 3, who own guns will just willingly arbitrarily give them up when firearms ownership is such an integral part of the nation's culture then I have some cheap bridges to sell you. So maybe we should look for real solutions to the problem of mass shootings?
 
winjer said:
Another mass shooting.
The USA really need to do something about these tragic events.
Click to expand...
Guns and culture. Gun violence in the US will always be off the charts vs other western countries unless they can change. But they wont. It's so common it's a norm. It's not even gun violence like robbing banks or gangs or drug deals gone bad, but school and shopping mall kinds of shootings which are wacko. Going Postal is another one where a pissed off employee goes on a revenge spree back back at the company shooting their old boss or even just randomly shooting any coworker standing nearby. Another USA kind of thing. And always gun related.

Heck, there's probably more gun violence and mass shootings in the US (absolute numbers and per capita ratios) than lots of poorer countries.
 
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StreetsofBeige said:
Guns and culture. Gun violence in the US will always be off the charts vs other western countries unless they can change. But they wont. It's so common it's a norm. It's not even gun violence like robbing banks or gangs or drug deals gone bad, but school and shopping mall kinds of shootings which are wacko. Going Postal is another one where a pissed off employee goes on a revenge spree back back at the company. Another USA kind of thing.

Heck, there's probably more gun violence and mass shootings in the US (absolute numbers and per capita ratios) than lots of poorer countries.
Click to expand...

Both statements are not correct. Absolute numbers is Brazil. Per capita, multiple countries are worse, including Mexico and several Central American nations. This is why El Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele built his giant prison and put the entire nation's gang members in jail, which curiously enough caused crime to basically evaporate in that country overnight. An interesting lesson for the rest of the world...
 
Unknown Soldier said:

Both statements are not correct. Absolute numbers is Brazil. Per capita, multiple countries are worse, including Mexico and several Central American nations. This is why El Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele built his giant prison and put the entire nation's gang members in jail, which curiously enough caused crime to basically evaporate in that country overnight. An interesting lesson for the rest of the world...
Click to expand...
Never said USA is the highest.

In your link, it has limited countries as those charts might only show 20-30. And pending the year they even got the stats in the wrong columns. But assuming the data is still good, USA might be lower per capita than some south american or Carribean countries, but compare USA to European countries or Canada. Like night and day. USA will be a solid 4-5 per 100,000 gun deaths. European and Canada will be maybe 1 or a fraction of a pt.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
I am not. I'm merely stating facts which contradict your position on gun control

I'm going to be honest here. The US owns 50% of the world's guns held by civilians, the aforementioned 400 million or so. Which is more than the population of the whole country. If guns were directly correlated to crime, then the US must surely have 50% of the world's crime? Well, it doesn't. Not even close. So clearly the presence of guns has little to do with the presence of crime? Maybe there are other factors involved?

About 32% of Americans own at least 1 gun. Roughly 43% of Americans live in a household with a gun. That's nearly half of all Americans, living in a household with a gun. And yet while it is true that America has mass shootings, in other countries instead of mass shootings they have mass casualty attacks caused by car rammings. This is especially a problem in Europe. In fact Europe has car ramming mass casualty attacks more often than America has mass shootings. So is the solution "car control"? Should we start banning cars to prevent these attacks?

America is the world's most wealthy and economically successful country because of its unique culture of individualism, freedom, and ambition. Part of that culture since founding is the right for ordinary citizens to own firearms with few restrictions. The US is the only country on Earth which codifies the right to bear arms into its founding document. The Founding Fathers were quite explicit when they stated the right to bear arms is critical to the maintenance of a free democratic state, even with all the drawbacks of ordinary citizens having weapons of war. Look at the governmental structure of China, the current superpower which compete with he US, for an example otherwise. Look at what is happening in Europe for an example of what happens when citizens have zero power to check the government's power. The US is also the country responsible for 25% of the world's GDP. This is not coincidence. American exceptionalism exists because of the nation's ideals which are quite different from almost every other nation on the Earth and it happens that part of these ideals also involves citizens owning firearms

I'm not going to say much more because I don't want to be banned today but the reality is America is what it is because of it's founding ideals, one of which happens to be enshrinement of the US Second Amendment. 250 years later, the unique US gun culture remains as strong as it was since the nation was founded. If you think the 32% of Americans, fully 1 in 3, who own guns will just willingly arbitrarily give them up when firearms ownership is such an integral part of the nation's culture then I have some cheap bridges to sell you. So maybe we should look for real solutions to the problem of mass shootings?
Click to expand...

When I stated that mass shootings started in the 70s, that is a mere historical fact.
And that there was gun violence before, is another fact, it just that the reason for it was different.

You can talk all you want about how many people have guns. But the reality is that the USA has to choose between gun control, or continue to have mass shootings regularly.
It's clear that the USA so far, has chosen to keep their guns and their mass shootings.

Yes, other countries have car ramming's. These are terrorist attacks, committed by Muslims. The reasoning for mass shootings and terror Islamic attacks are significantly different.
That is why in Europe Christmas events have been cancelled, or the ones that have not yet been canceled require placing concrete barriers to mitigate Muslim terror attacks.
 
look, if they didn't do anything after so many kids that's killed over the years, there's really not going to be a solution to this that they're willing to take. gun "culture" IS part of US culture and while I support the 2nd amendment, I had always support strong gun restrictions and regulations too. but people who like guns and people who sell guns will always give some excuses to say it's useless or it's stepping on their rights or something. anything but to take the first step in trying to improve this situation. I understand it's not just a matter of guns too. it's also a mental health issue and a mix of a lot of other issues combine. but you have to start working on it instead of making excuses. at this point, I had learn to just keep my mouth shut and just live with it and be glad that I don't have kids to worry about these sorta things over.
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
I am all for tighter gun laws problem is the criminals aren't going to care and there is just no way to get all guns off our streets now

Like I say I don't know what the right answer is, I am afraid this country is too far gone in this regard



As in take them away from everyone?

100% would cause a Civil War here
Click to expand...

It's not the criminals who are doing these types of shootings, it's mentally and emotionally challenged average people having a bad day. You won't stop bad people from getting guns ever, but you might stop the average person from easily getting one on some impulse.

I don't have the answer either, but America is a strange place where the right to carry and own a fire arms is > human life. Most first world countries don't have this issue. I wonder why?
 
Ozzie666 said:
I don't have the answer either, but America is a strange place where the right to carry and own a fire arms is > human life. Most first world countries don't have this issue. I wonder why?
Click to expand...
Go to a Buffalo Sabres game.

Just to prove how wacky gun violence is and they got to protect people in case something weird happens, you dont just get cops outside the arena keeping an eye on things and acting as traffic cops controlling cars.

As you walk towards the arena, you literally got military guys holding assault rifles standing by their military vehicle parked on the sidewalks like it's a warzone.

Never seen that ever in Toronto walking to the downtown dome or arena to watch baseball, hockey or basketball.
 
EviLore said:
Click to expand...


Shit...not this crap again.
If this end up being another case of mentally unstable people on internet or social agenda person, they gonna need to take drastic actions. Because this will end up becoming a trend.
 
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StreetsofBeige said:
Go to a Buffalo Sabres game.

Just to prove how wacky gun violence is and they got to protect people in case something weird happens, you dont just get cops outside the arena keeping an eye on things and acting as traffic cops controlling cars.

As you walk towards the arena, you literally got military guys holding assault rifles standing by their military vehicle parked on the sidewalks like it's a warzone.

Never seen that ever in Toronto walking to the downtown dome or arena to watch baseball, hockey or basketball.
Click to expand...

When most your citizens are packing heat and some automatic weapons, you need to escalate your law enforcement response. I don't recall that being too much an issue at the arena, but Bills games yes. Canadian's aren't packing much heat.
 
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