Why does your avatar look like the guy just let loose an incredibly wet fart in the elevator?
And 20gbs for audio? Nobody is going to use that. Most people use tv speakers. Unless they gpt that 10.1 atmos beauty then most companies ain't gonna focus too much on audio.
.... pssssst... yes, I have a secret you must know... you know the Audio processor the XSX has that offloads spatial audio calculations? Sssh, not so loud they will hear us....
.... it reads from main RAM too and may consume bandwidth... You are now part of the Illuminati that know that sound data is not pulled from thin air but uses data stored in RAM, welcome brother/sister/etc...
.... pssssst... yes, I have a secret you must know... you know the Audio processor the XSX has that offloads spatial audio calculations? Sssh, not so loud they will hear us....
.... it reads from main RAM too and may consume bandwidth... You are now part of the Illuminati that know that sound data is not pulled from thin air but uses data stored in RAM, welcome brother/sister/etc...
But yes when some hype the Tempest engine, dont forgot it takes 20gbs of your memory. Is it worth for the final effects and going to tv speakers?
Granted the UE5 demo sounded good even from YT and monitor speakers.
But yes when some hype the Tempest engine, dont forgot it takes 20gbs of your memory. Is it worth for the final effects and going to tv speakers?
Granted the UE5 demo sounded good even from YT and monitor speakers.
The 20gbs is an indicator of how much compute the unit can chew through. Doesn’t mean it’s a constant reservation. Really it tells us it can do some serious business, whether sound or other complex calculations.
So, we're not only back to using absolute differences in peak performance, we now convert the delta to a previous architecture (based on? IPC?) in order to inflate it further?
And of course, a relative memory bandwidth difference which is also relatively smaller than last gen is huge!
Of note, a thread that was about someone's take on the IO throughput got derailed into anything else.
So, we're not only back to using absolute differences in peak performance, we now convert the delta to a previous architecture (based on? IPC?) in order to inflate it further?
And of course, a relative memory bandwidth difference which is also relatively smaller than last gen is huge!
Of note, a thread that was about someone's take on the IO throughput got derailed into anything else.
In comes a new tweet from a former PlayStation developer, who says to have heard from several developers that Microsoft’s console is the superior console and that the power difference between the Xbox Series X and PS5 is quite shocking.
A former Sony dev has taken to Twitter to comment on the PS5 and Xbox Series X power difference, saying that the difference is quite shocking.
wccftech.com
also, its not only About TFLOPS, PS5 has a variable frequency for CPU and GPU.
XSX is sustained for both. Also, XSX has a higher memory bandwidth.
and much more CUs for RT
Also, the CPU clock is higher
Oh, Chris Garnell, who is not in gaming industry for more than 10 years. And his tweets are very toxic for some reason. Anyway, regarding difference in some area.....
Regarding variable frequencies, worst case scenarios in games happens rarely, and if that happens, downclock is pretty minor. But so often mentioned variable frequencies and throttling CPU is pretty much related to cross gen games :
There's likely more to discover about how boost will influence game design. Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core. It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores. However, this doesn't sound like a boost solution, but rather performance profiles similar to what we've seen on Nintendo Switch. "Regarding locked profiles, we support those on our dev kits, it can be helpful not to have variable clocks when optimising. Released PS5 games always get boosted frequencies so that they can take advantage of the additional power," explains Cerny.
CPU in SMT is 3% higher on XSX 3.6 vs 3.5 in PS5
GPU is 18% difference. But if rumours are correct about 64 ROPS for both, PS5 has a higher pixel fill rate.
XSX:
52 TMUs x 4 x 1.825 GHz ~ 379.6 billion ray ops per second
PS5:
36 TMUs x 4 x 2.23 GHz ~ 321.12 billion ray ops per second
XSX:
64 x 1.825 GHz ~ 116.8 billion pixels per second
PS5:
64 x 2.23 GHz ~ 142.72 billion pixels per second
Yes, XSX GPU has a higher numbers of CUs, but PS5 GPU is clocked higher. Despite difference in RAM speed, of course RAM speed ( but for 10 GB ) is higher on XSX because it needs to feed 12TF , but RAM speed per TF is similar on both ( btw. don't forget that if game on XSX will use more than 10 GB, RAM speed will drop ).
The CPU and GPU share the same bus to the same pool of RAM on both the Series X and PS5. There's no way around that. Only when the CPU is doing literally nothing can the GPU utilize the full bandwidth on either one (except it won't have any work to do because the CPU is what queues up work, so that's quite literally never going to happen.)
As I stated above, if you assume the CPU needs the same 48GB/s on both, then you have 400GB/s remaining on the PS5 or about 39.1GB/s/TF for the 10.23TF PS5 (which is a pretty meaningless measure but it's what you're considering here.) On the Series X you have 480GB/s left or about 39.7GB/s/TF for the 12.1 TG CPU. They're in pretty much the same shape at these rates.
The reason why 48GB/s of bus traffic for the CPU on Series X costs you 80GB/s of the theoretical peak GPU bandwidth is because it's tying up the whole 320-bit bus to transmit only 192 bits of data per cycle from the slower portion of RAM we've been told will be typically used by the CPU. 48GB / 192 bits * 320 bits = 80GB of effective bandwidth used to make that 48GB/s available. This is because only six of the ten RAM chips can contribute to that additional 6GB over and above the 10GB of RAM that can be accessed more quickly when all ten are used in parallel.
Not entirely. The 48GB/s bandwidth used by the CPU uses the narrower bus width, so it has an outsized impact on the overall bandwidth available. The 48GB/s used by the CPU reduces the available bandwidth to fast RAM by 80GB/s, leaving 480GB/s rather than the 512GB/s in your analysis. That leads us to:
... which suggests that the two are comparably balanced for significant CPU workloads and GPU utilization. Of course there are a host of factors we don't know about ranging from caching effectiveness to memory latency that could further complicate the picture. Ability to effectively utilize GPU resources, impact of clock speed on non-CU aspects, etc. Armchair analysis only goes so far, and real-world benchmarks in the form of actual games are going to be far more meaningful.
Bandwidth is expressed as GB/s, or capacity to transfer data over the course of a second. You are then telling me that the number of times a CU will be executing instructions over the course of a second is not a factor in how much bandwidth it will need over that same second. How does that...
www.resetera.com
And the biggest difference between the two is, of course, in SSD.
PS5 SSD is 129% faster than XSX SSD
XSX SSD is 56% slower than PS5 SSD
PS5 SSD speed is 229% of XSX's SSD speed
XSX SSD speed is 43% of PS5's SSD speed
But yes when some hype the Tempest engine, dont forgot it takes 20gbs of your memory. Is it worth for the final effects and going to tv speakers?
Granted the UE5 demo sounded good even from YT and monitor speakers.
also, its not only About TFLOPS, PS5 has a variable frequency for CPU and GPU.
XSX is sustained for both. Also, XSX has a higher memory bandwidth.
and much more CUs for RT
Also, the CPU clock is higher
He is not completely wrong , the Series X has the stronger parts, it has more BHP to talk in car terms.
What PS5 does is increase efficiency of the power available , so that it’s better utilized , but it can never produce 12 TF of power with a 10 TF gpu, same goes for memory bandwidth, cpu clock speed etc ..
you can’t make up the loss in CUs with only a faster GPU clock for example.
Some calculations will benefit of course.
but who says MS api and architecture isn’t also about maximizing all available hardware parts?
What are you smoking? Lol. You only need a notebook to run the UE5 demo with the same amount of detail at 1440p@40fps. XSX will easily run it at a higher res. Stop being to delusional.
And STOP with this stupid narrative that XSX means last-gen jaguar based games and PS5 is the only platform on this planet to have nextgen visuals.
This is ridiculous.
He is not wrong , the Series X has the stronger parts, it haS more BHP to talk in car terms.
What PS5 does is increase efficiency of the power available , so that it’s better utilized , but it can never produce 12 TF of power with a 10 TF gpu, same goes for memory bandwidth, cpu clock speed etc ..
That's all well and good, but console warriors are using the variable frequency as basis for disinformation regarding the PS5 peak performance. They are spinning it into a false claim that "it is not really 10TF". This is when the 10TF or 12TF is for a peak computation scenario, which neither machine does all the time anyway.
In context Cerny said upto but dont forget GPU requirements, so he was saying what the max ability of tempest engine was capable with 120 sound sources was my take. Unlikely practically.
What are you talking about? Everything I wrote comes from the official spec sheet from Sony and MS.
Sony said their clocks are variable and DF also said that if the GPU is running at the max value, the CPU has to be throttled:
Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core.
So, throttling CPU to ensure max GPU. On the other hand, if devs would NOT be throttling the CPU they could not ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core.
It is right there. Or are you saying that DF is lying?
Also, the other stuff I Mentioned is correct and comes directly from
The spec sheets:
XSX has a higher memory bandwidth.
and much more CUs for RT
Also, the CPU clock is higher
That's all well and good, but console warriors are using the variable frequency as basis for disinformation regarding the PS5 peak performance. They are spinning it into a false claim that "it is not really 10TF". This is when the 10TF or 12TF is for a peak computation scenario, which neither machine does all the time anyway.
But why do Devs need to throttle the CPU to ensure a sustained GPU clock?
Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core.
Throttling the CPU is at the beginning of the Gen not a huge problem, because games are still designed with jaguar in mind, but soon enough, when nextgen only games arrive, devs can't just throttle the CPU to have a sustained GPU core.
What are you talking about? Everything I wrote comes from the official spec sheet from Sony and MS.
Sony said their clocks are variable and DF also said that if the GPU is running at the max value, the CPU has to be throttled:
So, throttling CPU to ensure max GPU. On the other hand, if devs would NOT be throttling the CPU they could not ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core.
It is right there. Or are you saying that DF is lying?
Also, the other stuff I Mentioned is correct and comes directly from
The spec sheets:
these are all facts, right from the spec sheet.
But why do Devs need to throttle the CPU to ensure a sustained GPU clock?
Throttling the CPU is at the beginning of the Gen not a huge problem, because games are still designed with jaguar in mind, but soon enough, when nextgen only games arrive, devs can't just throttle the CPU to have a sustained GPU core.
This has all been explained and debunked many, many pages ago.
And while the PS5 clocks are technically classed as "variable" there's a lot more to it than that. Have a watch of Cerny's PS5 talk. It's fascinating.
In context Cerny said upto but dont forget GPU requirements, so he was saying what the max ability of tempest engine was capable with 120 sound sources was my take. Unlikely practically.
What are you talking about? Everything I wrote comes from the official spec sheet from Sony and MS.
Sony said their clocks are variable and DF also said that if the GPU is running at the max value, the CPU has to be throttled:
So, throttling CPU to ensure max GPU. On the other hand, if devs would NOT be throttling the CPU they could not ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core.
It is right there. Or are you saying that DF is lying?
Also, the other stuff I Mentioned is correct and comes directly from
The spec sheets:
these are all facts, right from the spec sheet.
But why do Devs need to throttle the CPU to ensure a sustained GPU clock?
Throttling the CPU is at the beginning of the Gen not a huge problem, because games are still designed with jaguar in mind, but soon enough, when nextgen only games arrive, devs can't just throttle the CPU to have a sustained GPU core.
This is the bit from Digital Foundry that you're referring to:
Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core. It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores. However, this doesn't sound like a boost solution, but rather performance profiles similar to what we've seen on Nintendo Switch. "Regarding locked profiles, we support those on our dev kits, it can be helpful not to have variable clocks when optimising. Released PS5 games always get boosted frequencies so that they can take advantage of the additional power," explains Cerny.
They're saying that on the dev kits developers are currently using power profiles that favour the GPU, which makes sense considering their games/engines are designed to work with the weak jaguar cores. When developing proper next gen games they will be using different profiles (if needed) to help them optimise their code.
It's also been made clear that these profiles can only be used during development to help with the optimisation process, they also sound optional based on Cerny's quote.
So the developer doesn't have the capability to 'throttle' back the PS5's GPU or CPU in their released game, the PS5 will react to whatever work is required. The profiles are just used to help optimisation during development, if needed.
It will also be very rare that a game needs 100% of the CPU and GPU power for a sustained period of time, so anyone suggesting that the PS5 will be constantly in trouble and throttling back its GPU is wrong. Confirmed in the same Digital Foundry article:
"Developers don't need to optimise in any way; if necessary, the frequency will adjust to whatever actions the CPU and GPU are performing," Mark Cerny counters. "I think you're asking what happens if there is a piece of code intentionally written so that every transistor (or the maximum number of transistors possible) in the CPU and GPU flip on every cycle. That's a pretty abstract question, games aren't anywhere near that amount of power consumption. In fact, if such a piece of code were to run on existing consoles, the power consumption would be well out of the intended operating range and it's even possible that the console would go into thermal shutdown. PS5 would handle such an unrealistic piece of code more gracefully."
My reasoning is ps5 first party games will be made for zen2, superfast SSD and will use the highest quality assets and therefore look better. Ps5 SSD can steam very high assets unlike no other SSD. Proof ? Go watch Ue5 demo.
And i gave reasons, no need to call people morons, try something that argues the point instead of the hyperbole and ad hominem, that just makes you look moronic
I will state it again, games made with highest quality ultra assets from super fast SSD and for Zen2 will look a gen above stuff targeted at HDD and Jaguar.
Stop linking to this post.
No developers or amd engineers have verified what librebrave typed up.
He is trying to spin a 'plausible sounding' story about activity-based hardware customisation created by Sony and thus why PS5 can run 95% of the time at 2.23ghz.
It is a just another tale, another movement.
At least wait for DF to ask tougher questions in the next round of unveil.
My reasoning is ps5 first party games will be made for zen2, superfast SSD and will use the highest quality assets and therefore look better. Ps5 SSD can steam very high assets unlike no other SSD. Proof ? Go watch Ue5 demo.
And your reasoning is what ? Terrafloppies ?
And i gave reasons, no need to call people morons, try something that argues the point instead of the hyperbole and ad hominem, that just makes you look moronic
I will state it again, games made with highest quality ultra assets from super fast SSD and for Zen2 will look a gen above stuff targeted at HDD and Jaguar.
You're not a dev. Everything you spouted is guessimates and armchairing based no zero facts or gameplay footage. Nobody has even seen any 1st party exclusives for either platform yet. Godfall sure didn't impress anyone with it's crossgen graphics.
Your post is not with reality. Its fanboy wishful nonsense. "Looking an entire gen ahead of XSX"? That sounds so hyperbolic and stupid, it's not even worth responding to.
Wait, so Hellbade 2, Fable 4, The Initiatives new game, The Coalitions new game, etc are all crossgen and using jaguar still? Is that what you're saying?
You conventiently left out that you were talking cross gen games exclusively.
Stop linking to this post.
No developers or amd engineers have verified what librebrave typed up.
He is trying to spin a 'plausible sounding' story about activity-based hardware customisation created by Sony and thus why PS5 can run 95% of the time at 2.23ghz.
It is a just another tale, another movement.
At least wait for DF to ask tougher questions in the next round of unveil.
You're not a dev. Everything you spouted is guessimates and armchairing based no zero facts or gameplay footage. Nobody has even seen any 1st party exclusives for either platform yet.
Your post is not with reality. Its fanboy wishful nonsense. "Looking an entire gen ahead of XSX"? That sounds so hypbolic and stupid, it's not even worth responding to.
Of course i am not a dev, Your not a dev either, and ? Of course its prediction, but we have an example already
That is using fast SSD, and zen2, and ps5, and it looks better than anything else shown so far by miles, including Gears5 on XSX and including the last XSX show.
So what I am predicting is based on the reality we have seen already, its in the video above, its real....
The only guesstimate is how many games will use similar tech, but it exists and is very very real.
Of course i am not a dev, and of course its prediction, but we have an example already
That is using fast SSD, and zen2, and ps5, and it looks better than anything else shown so far by miles, including Gears5 on XSX and including the last XSX show.
So what I am predicting is based on the reality we have seen already, its in the video above, its real....
Bro, you're comparing a next gen tech demo to cross gen AA games and a current game that was ported in 2 wk to the XSX untouched!
Wait until you see XSX 1st party games being built specifically for XSX like Playground's new Fable, The Initiatives new game, Hellblade 2 etc that will be using the very engine used in that tech demo. Nanite is a game changer
There is a reason why MS has a dedicated 1st party E3 event in July
Bro, you're comparing a next gen tech demo to cross gen AA games and a current game that was ported in 2 wk to the XSX untouched!
Wait until you see XSX 1st party games being built specifically for XSX like Playground's new Fable, The Initiatives new game, Hellblade 2 etc that will be using the very engine used in that tech demo. Nanite is a game changer
There is a reason why MS has a dedicated 1st party E3 event in July
If MS develops games targeted at XSX and lockart and not at Jaguar and HDD then they will be better by default yes. Lets wait and see if thsoe games have Xb1 versions and PC versions with HDD
A former Sony dev has taken to Twitter to comment on the PS5 and Xbox Series X power difference, saying that the difference is quite shocking.
wccftech.com
also, its not only About TFLOPS, PS5 has a variable frequency for CPU and GPU.
XSX is sustained for both. Also, XSX has a higher memory bandwidth.
and much more CUs for RT
Also, the CPU clock is higher
Damn, you will be disappointed nextgen, there will be no way, that there will be a PS5 game that will look a GENERATION ahead than ALL XSX games lol. no freaking way.
how delusional do you have to be to believe that, and this GENERATIONAL LEAP only because of SSD/IO, whereas EVERYTHING ELSE of the hardware is inferior. lol
Impossible.
This is really sad, that people are so delusional.
Damn, you will be disappointed nextgen, there will be no way, that there will be a PS5 game that will look a GENERATION ahead than ALL XSX games lol. no freaking way.
how delusional do you have to be to believe that, and this GENERATIONAL LEAP only because of SSD/IO, whereas EVERYTHING ELSE of the hardware is inferior. lol
Impossible.
This is really sad, that people are so delusional.
I said there will be a generational leap becasue of SSD and Zen2 over hard drive and Jaguar targeted games and games on XSX that dont use really high assets.
I stick by it, lets wait and see. I have altready seen how games can look so its too late
I said there will be a generational leap becasue of SSD and Zen2 over hard drive and Jaguar targeted games and games on XSX that dont use really high assets.
I stick by it, lets wait and see. I have altready seen how games can look so its too late
I gotta give Sony credit. They looked outside the box for something to give them a true advantage, and it sounds great.
Now I'm wondering how long 3rd parties focus on lowest common denominator. I can only speak for myself, but if first party games take full advantage and 3rd party games don't and it's noticeable compared to the first party games, I'll probably be avoiding any such 3rd party games. The benefits just sound way to good compared to historical differences.
My reasoning is ps5 first party games will be made for zen2, superfast SSD and will use the highest quality assets and therefore look better. Ps5 SSD can steam very high assets unlike no other SSD. Proof ? Go watch Ue5 demo.
Dear oh dear. You should change your name to geordieChimp...
Anyway, The highest quality assets that surpass the bandwidth of the XsX or a PCs SSD will just take a smidge longer to load in. The only difference will be increased LOD for the PS5.
Until we have UE5 games running side by side, you can't make definitve statements. Think about it instead of blabbering on with things that ou don't know about
I said there will be a generational leap becasue of SSD and Zen2 over hard drive and Jaguar targeted games and games on XSX that dont use really high assets.
I stick by it, lets wait and see. I have altready seen how games can look so its too late
My reasoning is ps5 first party games will be made for zen2, superfast SSD and will use the highest quality assets and therefore look better. Ps5 SSD can steam very high assets unlike no other SSD. Proof ? Go watch Ue5 demo.
And your reasoning is what ? Terrafloppies ?
And i gave reasons, no need to call people morons, try something that argues the point instead of the hyperbole and ad hominem, that just makes you look moronic
I will state it again, games made with highest quality ultra assets from super fast SSD and for Zen2 will look a gen above stuff targeted at HDD and Jaguar.
Of course i am not a dev, Your not a dev either, and ? Of course its prediction, but we have an example already
That is using fast SSD, and zen2, and ps5, and it looks better than anything else shown so far by miles, including Gears5 on XSX and including the last XSX show.
So what I am predicting is based on the reality we have seen already, its in the video above, its real....
The only guesstimate is how many games will use similar tech, but it exists and is very very real.
you don’t really think this argument holds up, do you? A 30fps tech demo with no AI versus a port of an older game? Epic didn’t say it was an exact match, but did say this same demo looks “awesome“ on series X and PC.
let’s at least wait and see how some AAA games look on the Series X before jumping to any conclusions. I’m personally very interested in Hellblade and Halo Infinite’s tech.
We talking in compare power of the audio chips and your argument is chip with similar function exists before... ok let's not talk also
of GPU and CPU as both exists before.
.
wccftech.com
www.eurogamer.net
www.resetera.com
