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[Caleranatior]

I've still got no real idea who I'm voting for other than who I'm NOT voting for. So, I'm watching some news channels, and they're not really helpful right now either. UK Politics is terrible - it never seems to be we're the best party, it always seems to be the parties saying how bad the other parties are.

How does that help anyone.

This may or may not help but it's still worth a watch anyway (by everyone I'd say)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIrCOfDbL_E

 

[CCS]

Yeah, I was thinking Green Party but feel like it's a 'wasted vote' which doesn't help at all if everyone is thinking that. I used to vote Labour, but switched to Lib Dem last time (and felt betrayed that they sided with Cons). I'm no real political expert, so maybe I didn't understand the Lib Dem decision entirely.

That is the problem with the Greens under FPTP, unless you live in Brighton all voting for them will do is increase their legitimacy by raising their share of the vote, but sadly it won't give them any more MP's.

 

[Real Hero]

Yeah, I was thinking Green Party but feel like it's a 'wasted vote' which doesn't help at all if everyone is thinking that. I used to vote Labour, but switched to Lib Dem last time (and felt betrayed that they sided with Cons). I'm no real political expert, so maybe I didn't understand the Lib Dem decision entirely.

Labour says they will reduce uni fee's although it might not be as much as you want/hope

 

[Tak3n]

From the BBC

and that is exactly what he will say in another 5 years....

the guy was a idiot, like him or loathe him Gove was forcing through changes, but then sacked because the election was coming....

and replaced with, well a nothing MP who does not have a opinion on anything as far as I can tell

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Anyone check out the Sun today?

How many positive Tory stories are littered throughout?

 

[kmag]

From the BBC

That actually sounds vaguely threatening.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Not really, I shouldn't be voting for the person who's 'scared' me the most into voting for them. I should be voting for the person/party that is going to look after me and the country. It should be someone you trust and has your best interests in mind. Unless this was a joke comment that has went right over my head haha

Hehe, yep that was meant to be sarcy

For reals though, I don't know if any party is pledging (or even cledging) to do most of what you're after there, but I'd recommend the Greens. Even if they don't have much of a chance of winning where you are (and they don't tend to do that well up North), I'm one of those 'at least send the right message' people.

That is the problem with the Greens under FPTP, unless you live in Brighton all voting for them will do is increase their legitimacy by raising their share of the vote, but sadly it won't give them any more MP's.

I'm not in Brighton, and I've got the luxury of actually voting for the Greens and having a chance of them winning! Bookies are now giving the Greens odds of 5/1 in Bristol West (down from 100/1 last year) after an Ashcroft poll showed them on 25% of the vote here. Sadly, this is very much the exception though, as you say.

 

[PJV3]

From the BBC

I can almost taste the bullshit, his years as a Spin doctor at Carlton have served him well.
He's up there with Blair in the oily stakes.

 

[Goodlife]

I'm reading over the Manifestos on the BBC website now, but I don't think there's many parties even looking at what I'd be interested in.

- Increased funding for social projects such as sports in 'deprived areas', healthy eating programs for school children and their parents, etc
Sounds like Sure Start to me (I loved Sure Start)
http://www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/...-to-restore-sure-start-centres-to-family-hubs

- A pledge to protect current funding for Council Sports Facilities (Gyms, Sports Halls, Youth Clubs, etc) offering after school activities and events.
Honestly not sure of anything specific, but sounds most like something Greens would like

- Funding for charities that provide services (such as PE, Healthy Lifestyles, etc) to schools and groups
No idea

- A pledge to look into and pressure the Premier League to subsidies ticket prices so the 'average fan' can return and watch football at the stadiums
Honestly don't think any party would be able to tackle this. PL are a private company and a very very very successful private company. I don't think the government could do anything.
A supporters group putting pressure on their club would probably be the best course of action.

- A pledge to protect net neutrality and to stop the policing of the internet started by David Cameron
Anyone but Tories?

- Tax Breaks for UK Game Developers
I'm sure someone else on this board might be able to give you a better idea? The Tories gave tax breaks IIRC, but not sure of the other parties stance?

- Uni Fees Reduced (even though I've graduated)
Labour have said they'll reduce them. Greens have said they'll abolish them

- A pledge to focus interests of the country outside of London (I have no real basis for this one other than feeling like all investment is centered around the South - Yes I'm a Northern Monkey!)

Not sure of any specific policies, all parties will talk about the need to do this.

Not too much help from me

 

[CCS]

I'm not saying that Labour are perfect and open and don't try and spin things, but the Tories are really taking being condescending, patronising cunts to a whole new level at this election.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Thanks for the pointers, I'm taking a look at the Green and Labour candidates in the area. I've had a leaflet from the Labour candidates, but strangely none from the Greens (so I guess even they know they get little joy up in the North-East).

I did an internet quiz.

Who am I to argue with the internets.

 

[suedester]

Anyone check out the Sun today?

How many positive Tory stories are littered throughout?

Have you checked out the Mirror? I imagine its the same for Labour.

 

[Tak3n]

Ignore his incessant need to throw in as many long words as he can, I actually am impressed by this post

Russell Brand

We Can Change Whatever We Want




May 6, 2015


A mate who I trust said to me;
“You know what this election boils down to? Who do you want to be protesting against on May 8th?
Or whenever they finish counting, negotiating and posturing?

David Cameron and a Tory coalition or Ed Miliband and one led by Labour?”

I suppose, implicitly my argument has always been – the Tories – let them wrench out the organs of the nation with such ferocity and contempt that usually phlegmatic people are dragged into the war against the establishment by the dreadful, eviscerating G-force.

The conservatives are such cinematic villains, the Etonian gits with their Freudian slips; the “West Villa United” supporting, “career-defining”, Darth Vader toffs. If you’re auditioning for heads on spikes “come the great day”, there’s no competition.

Like the fierce and exciting Nicola Sturgeon, or anyone with ears, I thought the difference between the two main parties was insufficient. Ed Miliband’s campaign manager, David Axelrod – a more appropriate name for a spin-doctor it’s difficult to imagine – he may as well be called Zach Huxter, is the bloke who delivered unto us Barack Obama; a tidal wave of potent promise that became a drab damp patch of disappointment. If that doesn’t induce a sigh of impotent lassitude you’ve got more “Yes We Can optimism” than Rolf Harris’s art dealer.

In the episode of The Trews in which I interviewed Ed Miliband there is no Damascene moment. I did not tumble back in a white beam of enlightened reverie, scales falling, realising that the Westminster machine, with a different pilot will serve ordinary people. We decided to endorse Labour before we approached them for the interview.

The simple truth is I don’t have a “ready to wear” system of government to offer people on May 8th and neither does anyone else I’ve yet spoken to.

My fundamentalist abstemiousness became untenable because of mates making practical pleas of varying import;

1. “My brother has MS, if the Tories get in, his independent Living Fund will be cut and he’ll have to go in a home or move into mine…”
2. “My kids can’t do a production at school because of budget cuts…”
3. “My daughter can’t go to university because we can’t afford to pay a student loan back…”
4. “Our drug treatment day care program is being shut down due to cuts…

In the grand scheme of Revolution these are small problems, I agree, small problems that can be somewhat assuaged with the small solution of getting rid of the Tories.

Ultimately what I feel, is that by not removing the Tories, through an unwillingness to participate in the “masquerade of democracy”, I was implicitly expecting the most vulnerable people in society to pay the price on my behalf while I pondered alternatives in luxury.

The reason I didn’t suggest it sooner is because, twerp that I am, I have hope. I really do believe that real, radical change is possible that the tyranny of giant, transnational corporations can be ended, that ecological melt-down in pursuit of imaginary money can be arrested and reversed, that an ideology that aspires to more than materialism, individualism and profit can be realised and practiced.

People that know a lot more about this than me, and probably you, advised me that we’ll be better off rucking with a Labour government than a Conservative one – if that strikes you as a pitiful choice, more sympathetic I could not be – but some people are facing much worse dilemmas than reneging on a puritanical political stance.

Does this country need a radical new political movement? An equivalent of Syriza in Greece or Podemos in Spain? It feels like it does and when the next administration fails to deliver because of the limitations of parliamentary politics I’ll happily participate in setting it up. With you.

Do we need an international confederation of new political alliances that are committed to real change, real democracy, a revolutionary alternative to capitalism? That can challenge the IMF, WTO, WBO and all the other global acronyms so portentous and phony they may as well be the wrestling federations they sound like? Of course we do, my schedule’s pretty clear, I’ll join in. Will you?

What Ed Miliband said on The Trews that seemed positive is that his government will be responsive to activism and campaigning. That will be pretty easy to evaluate quickly. Are media monopolies being broken up? Are the urgently needed houses being built? Is austerity continuing? Is the NHS still being privatised? Are we still blaming immigrants, the disabled and disadvantaged for massive economic problems that they can’t have created? Is domestic policy being dictated by unelected elites in the financial and corporate world?

If the answer is yes then you know that democracy in its current form is near redundant, that we are not offered reasonable alternatives and that parties that try to, like the Greens are stymied to the point irrelevance by ancient electoral architecture.

My position will not have changed on May 8th, I’ll be doing my best to amplify movements I believe in, from housing, to trade unions, football fan campaigns, social enterprises, digital activism, student occupations, organic agriculture, crypto-currencies; the same things I’m doing today, the things I’ve been learning about for the last 18 months; since I said I don’t vote on the telly.

My recommendation that people vote Labour is an optimistic punt that the degeneration of Britain will be slowed down and the lives of the most vulnerable will be a little more bearable than they’d’ve been under the Tories.

Nothing more ambitious than that.

It will take serious activism, committed action comparable to the sacrifice of those whose memories are continually evoked as a spur for us to vote. The women who died for that right, the people all over the world branded terrorists and imprisoned or executed for demanding democracy.

I fully understand that real change, real democracy is not something that can be palmed off in a booth twice a decade, a crossed box and crossed fingers. Democracy is for life, not just elections.

 

[Par Score]

Yeah, I was thinking Green Party but feel like it's a 'wasted vote' which doesn't help at all if everyone is thinking that. I used to vote Labour, but switched to Lib Dem last time (and felt betrayed that they sided with Cons). I'm no real political expert, so maybe I didn't understand the Lib Dem decision entirely.

This really does come down to what's going on in your constituency.

If you're in a safe seat, I'd vote Green based on what you've said are your priorities, because your vote was already wasted by our shit system. (This is what I did, because they weigh the Labour vote round my way)

If you're in a Lab/Lib or Lab/Con marginal, for the love of god hold your nose and vote Labour. This election is tight beyond tight, and if you don't want the Tories, every extra Labour seat is crucial.

Ignore his incessant need to throw in as many long words as he can, I actually am impressed by this post

Russell Brand

That is a good read from Brand, but:

My fundamentalist abstemiousness became untenable because of mates making practical pleas of varying import;

Fucking hell.

 

[CyclopsRock]

This is precisely what government is for, though! Looks like the housing supply is low...build more. Poor infrastructure? Get it fixed. Issues in schools, help them deal with it.

You don't deal with problems like this by sweeping it up into a cupboard and sticking a chair under then handle on the door and praying it goes away. The entire reason that these immigrants are handing over tax is to create these improvements! If you, as a government, have an issue with immigration it is because you, as a government, are failing to pay attention to what your job exists to do.

If the Minister for transport suggested we solve traffic problems by banning all new car sales, and saying you couldn't use a motorway until your car was 2 years old we'd laugh at them so hard the commons would probably crumble. On the other hand if they suggested road improvement programmes, and better access to public transport they'd be lauded.

Some of the problems can be sorted out by increasing supply (let's not say government, eh?) like increasing the numbers of hospital beds etc. It needs to do this with an increasing population either way, so yes, they can do that. There are certain things they can't do - like easing road congestion - in a lot of cases but that, too, isn't about "immigration" so much as it is about an increasing population without the ability to infinitely widen roads. That's all true, however the uneven distribution of immigration makes these problems significantly worse in some parts of the country than others - and whilst you can argue that the government should do this or the government should do that, it remains the case that as long as they are not doing this or that, this increase in population is affected some people in a negative way - again, you can't just hand-wave this away by telling people they need to educate themselves.

But beyond that, there are some negative aspects that come specifically from the fact that immigrants are immigrants (as opposed to simply because they represent an increased population) - things like languages in classrooms slowing down progress, a lack of social integration leading to fractured communities (which is a problem that gets intensified when you have areas with lots of people from the same country or culture who largely remain - socially - within that section of their local community. This limits their English speaking skills which in turn limits their job prospects - as an example, the Bangladeshi community in the UK has almost half its entire membership living within a few square miles of London and they have an unemployment rate 4 or 5 times higher than the White-British people in the same area, who are mostly also poor, which has obvious negative impacts for the local area. I live in Tower Hamlets btw, the high street's a right shit hole.) You also get other "social" problems like all that Trojan Horse school stuff which tends not to happen in areas with a more diverse mixture of races - the "problem" here isn't immigration, it's poor integration but, again, you can't hand-wave the problems this creates away.

And finally, the government can't get rid of the fact that with increased labour supply comes lowered wages. It's uniformly the case that as supply outweighs demand, the value of the supply goes down. In some areas this is great, like with NHS staff where, as you say, without immigration we'd be stuffed. In other areas, like the Creative Industries (which I work in), immigration enriches London's primacy in Europe and ensures that we're the go-to place for creative products within the EU (because most countries aren't big enough for their own industries so the talent congregates in one place - typically London) which is good for the wider industry. But there are also people that lose out. I'm not sure where you live, but when was the last time you went into Pret and was served by an British person? Yes, "they do the jobs British people don't want to do" etc etc but if you're an unskilled British person or perhaps just not very talented, it's impossible to imagine that this effectively limitless competition doesn't drive down your wages - and there's nothing the government can do about that. If you're a from a skilled trade like Plumbing, electrician etc, the competition has massively gone up to their detriment. Again, these are changes that benefit most people but - like globalisation - the people it negatively affects bear the brunt for those that benefit.

Also, on another note, lol:

 

[nib95]

Ignore his incessant need to throw in as many long words as he can, I actually am impressed by this post

Russell Brand

Not a bad letter at all, and as theatrical as it is, I do understand where he's coming from. He's essentially opted for a lesser of two evils stance that so many of us do, but only to soften the blow whilst he continues his grants roots political activism.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

This really does come down to what's going on in your constituency.

If you're in a safe seat, I'd vote Green based on what you've said are your priorities, because your vote was already wasted by our shit system. (This is what I did, because they weigh the Labour vote round my way)

If you're in a Lab/Lib or Lab/Con marginal, for the love of god hold your nose and vote Labour. This election is tight beyond tight, and if you don't want the Tories, every extra Labour seat is crucial.

Yeah where I live is a pretty Labour safe area, with a few CON and maybe one Lib.

 

[Real Hero]

omg

 

[King_Moc]

Not too much help from me

I believe Labour said they would make football clubs include fans on the board, so they would at least have to listen. Might make no difference, but it's a start.

 

[Goodlife]

This really does come down to what's going on in your constituency.

If you're in a safe seat, I'd vote Green based on what you've said are your priorities, because your vote was already wasted by our shit system. (This is what I did, because they weigh the Labour vote round my way)

The only difference this time round is that the Tories will try and play the "legitimate" card a LOT.
So if Labour win less seats than them (likely) they will say they aren't in a legitimate position to form a government etc etc.

If the popular vote (which has no bearing on elections) is in Labours favour, then they can at least use that card to try and shut up the Tories.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

omg

Phrasing, Dave!

 

[PJV3]

omg

Kamikaze Cameron.

 

[jimbobsmells]

I feel like I'm in a legitimate position to kick Cameron square in the nuts.

Is that how it works?

 

[CharmingCharlie]

Ignore his incessant need to throw in as many long words as he can, I actually am impressed by this post

Russell Brand

Google really needs to add a "Russell Brand" option to their translator. At any rate I can't see his opinion having much of an effect on anyone even those that can understand his bullshit.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

5 Million Doorstep Conversations? Not one of those buggers came to my door, it's all clean and friendly too!

 

[nib95]

Also, on another note, lol:

I lol'd. If only they went with a photo with a more sinister smile.

 

[Hellers]

Nice to see Yougov using such non-biased and definitely not misleading questions in their polls

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I did the other vote quiz (https://voteforpolicies.org.uk)

Really surprised how close all the parties are in North Tyneside based on this 1 Online Quiz. It seems I'm still sort of Lib-Dem based at heart too, with a bit of Labour and Green. Hmm.

 

[CCS]

I did the other vote quiz (https://voteforpolicies.org.uk)




Really surprised how close all the parties are in North Tyneside based on this 1 Online Quiz. It seems I'm still sort of Lib-Dem based at heart too, with a bit of Labour and Green. Hmm.

I guess the problem there is that a Lib Dem government would suit you best, but a Labour government would be better than another Conservative/Lib Dem coalition?

 

[Hasney]

Nice to see Yougov using such non-biased and definitely not misleading questions in their polls

Man, I could do with a new horse. I vote the former.

 

[giant_frying_pan]

My predictions:

Con: 274
Lab: 265
SNP: 55
Lib: 29
DUP: 10
Sinn: 4
Plaid: 4
SDLP: 3
UKIP: 2
Green: 1
Respect: 1
Ind: 1
Speaker: 1

Anyone check out the Sun today?

How many positive Tory stories are littered throughout?

Stolen from Twitter:

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I guess the problem there is that a Lib Dem government would suit you best, but a Labour government would be better than another Conservative/Lib Dem coalition?

Yeah that's the issue entirely, knowing that they formed with the Conservatives last time. If they've announced they'd form a Government with Labour I wouldn't feel as reluctant to vote for them again (but I know that's not how it really works).

 

[CCS]

Yeah that's the issue entirely, knowing that they formed with the Conservatives last time. If they've announced they'd form a Government with Labour I wouldn't feel as reluctant to vote for them again (but I know that's not how it really works).

I'm in a similar boat, in that I would consider the Lib Dems but I absolutely don't want a Tory government, so I won't vote for a party that might support them.

 

[Tak3n]

Tories and Lib Dem reps on Sky News...

The constituently rule book, says the party with fewest votes and seats should not take power, and would not have a legitimate government, even though the rules of parliament means they could

 

[Goodlife]

The only difference this time round is that the Tories will try and play the "legitimate" card a LOT.

Tories and Lib Dem reps on Sky News...

The constituently rule book, says the party with fewest votes and seats should not take power, and would not have a legitimate government, even though the rules of parliament means they could

See.

 

[Maledict]

Tories and Lib Dem reps on Sky News...

The constituently rule book, says the party with fewest votes and seats should not take power, and would not have a legitimate government, even though the rules of parliament means they could

We have a consitutional rule book now? First I've heard of that...

The party that gets the largest number of seats should have the *first* opportunity at forming a government. I don't disagree with that, and the Lib Dems saying they will negotiate with the largest party first makes absolute sense to me.

But it doesn't mean the second largest gets no chance at all. That's simply untrue and actually very damaging to the nation and our system of government - yet again the Tories are playing absurdly short term ploys that will, in the long run, fuck us up.

 

[Hellers]

Tories and Lib Dem reps on Sky News...

The constituently rule book, says the party with fewest votes and seats should not take power, and would not have a legitimate government, even though the rules of parliament means they could

Does everyone have popcorn ready for when Dave tries to pass a Queen's Speech without enough votes?

 

[Mr. Luchador]

David Cameron with a legit LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOY JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENKINS would be interesting.

 

[King_Moc]

Tories and Lib Dem reps on Sky News...

The constituently rule book, says the party with fewest votes and seats should not take power, and would not have a legitimate government, even though the rules of parliament means they could

Fewest votes and seats...

That needs clarification, as Labour could very easily get less seats but more votes.

 

[Clear]

Ignore his incessant need to throw in as many long words as he can, I actually am impressed by this post

Russell Brand

The only big word you need to know when dealing with Brand is dilettante.

 

[Hellers]

Fewest votes and seats...

That needs clarification, as Labour could very easily get less seats but more votes.

Absolute bollocks does not need clarification

 

[Mr Git]

Also, on another note, lol:

Bahahaa! Fucking hell, my tea is now everywhere.

 

[Goodlife]

Does everyone have popcorn ready for when Dave tries to pass a Queen's Speech without enough votes?

Exactly. What do they expect to happen?

 

[PJV3]

Cameron gets to go first at forming a government because he's the current PM, This largest party nonsense is getting annoying. If Labour can gain control of the Commons then it doesn't matter what Clegg or the Sun thinks.

 

[N7Commander95]

Labour have said though they'll just try for minority government.

I love it. When the Tories don't get what they want, they will actively DEFY the constitution to try and bullshit there way into power

 

[Hellers]

Exactly. What do they expect to happen?

Dunno. Maybe he expects the vast weight of manufactured public opinion will make Labour and the SNP magically support a Tory/LD government.

Can't see it happening myself although stranger things have happened

 

[CCS]

How many of you guys are going to stay up all night for the election?

 

[Hellers]

How many of you guys are going to stay up all night for the election?

God no. Most of the night nothing happens and the news channel coverage would make me want to go on a killing spree. Far better to wake up fresh the next morning see the results and grab the popcorn ready for the next few weeks of shit until it's all sorted.

 

[Jezbollah]

How many of you guys are going to stay up all night for the election?

I'll probably be up most if not all the night.

 

[CCS]

God no. Most of the night nothing happens and the news channel coverage would make me want to go on a killing spree. Far better to wake up fresh the next morning see the results and grab the popcorn ready for the next few weeks of shit until it's all sorted.

I'm grabbing a case of beer and a ton of pizza and spending 12 hours staring at BBC news. The joys of being a student.