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[leadbelly]

The Spectator is the right wing version of The New Statesmen, simple as that really. And the direction of traffic is far more Speccie --> Tory than the other way. They have a lot of great writers, many of whom weren't right wing.

Yeah. It is a perfectly respectable magazine.

It's a weird argument to make though really. Looking on the wikipedia page for the Guardian, I find this:

Founded in 1821 by John Edward Taylor in Manchester with backing from the non-conformist Little Circle group of local businessmen, The Manchester Guardian replaced the radical Manchester Observer, which championed the Peterloo Massacre protesters. The paper currently identifies with social liberalism. In the last UK general election in 2010, it supported the Liberal Democrats, who went on to form a coalition government with the Conservatives. In the current UK general election, it endorses the Labour Party. [7] The paper is influential in the design and publishing arena, sponsoring many awards in these areas.

And of course they do.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/20...ves-its-support-to-labour-in-general-election

That's what I took issue with really. He was saying that it should be dismissed because it has a Tory bias. but what he was really saying is it is a 'conservative' magazine, therefore I am going to dismiss the argument. Only, the article had nothing to do with it really. I just posted it as a reference to what I was talking about. Ed Miliband has stated that he will make 'Islamophobia' a crime. He hasn't gone into detail, but the issue people have with that is, 'Islamophobia' has always been a vague and ill-defined term. That in itself makes criminalising it problematic.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

 

[Jezbollah]

^^ Indeed. Happy Final Day, folks.

I'm actually looking forward to tomorrow - if only to get away from the fucking media stories for a few hours before the proper madness starts at 9pm.

 

[anonymous_abc]

So time to place our bets?

CON 35%
LAB 34%
LDEM 10%
UKIP 12%
GRN 5%

 

[Spaghetti]

considering spoiling my MP ballot but voting legitimately for local council, hm...

 

[jimbobsmells]

No offence to any Londoners here, but this is why a lot of people outside London hate you.

Of course, I personally don't believe this is anyway representative of what you all think.

But when people see this, it's another thing that'll feed that perception.

I get that, but you'd be wrong to lump us all together like that. Like cyclops said there is a huge amount of people basically living in poverty here. That being said, my colleague was getting excited over his new wine fridge yesterday. So there's that.

The front page in the standard continued on the next page and started talking about protecting 'wealth creators'. Jesus I swear that bollocks is the new 'trickle down'.

Gonna play it safe and vote for Conservatives. Honestly, I don't trust Labour with their spending plans. I think the Tories did really well during the recession and wouldn't want Labour screwing it up now.

I think they did fantastically well in a strategic sense. Cut cut cut as much as you can, then go all Keynesian for the last couple of years to make sure you have some positive growth around election time. They'll do the same again if they get in.

 

[Ashes]

So time to place our bets?

CON 35%
LAB 34%
LDEM 10%
UKIP 12%
GRN 5%

Will be interesting to see how the Greens end up doing.

 

[phisheep]

What I would like: pleasant night watching the results come in and accumulate a decisive result one way or the other
What will actually happen: results all over the place, total media clusterfuck
Conclusion: go to bed immediately after the BBC exit poll, catch up with clusterfuck about 6am

What I would like: Conservative/LibDem coalition
What will actually happen: results all over the place, total political clusterfuck
Conclusion: go to bed immediately after BBC exit polls, catch up with clusterfuck about next Wednesday

 

[brain_stew]

It's interesting that some of that some of the speculation has moved to a LIB-LAB coalition with nationalists passing a queen's speech. As a Lib Dem voter it's my preference but I'm not sure the numbers add up.

Having said that outside of a full on Labour - SNP coalition (which is of course impossible) a working majority looks impossible any which way you run the numbers, so it's likely the most stable government possible.

The two weeks following the election are set to be more interesting than the campaign itself, and I can see things getting very ugly.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

I think they did fantastically well in a strategic sense. Cut cut cut as much as you can, then go all Keynesian for the last couple of years to make sure you have some positive growth around election time. They'll do the same again if they get in.

CONservatives.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

So time to place our bets?

CON 35%
LAB 34%
LDEM 10%
UKIP 12%
GRN 5%

C'mon son, make with the seat predictions.

Mine is:

CON 290
LAB 270
SNP 45
LIB DEM 18
UKIP 3
GREEN 2

 

[anonymous_abc]

C'mon son, make with the seat predictions.

Thing is that requires some voodoo shit right there.

CON 282
LAB 275
SNP 52
LIB DEM 25
UKIP 2
GREEN 2

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Thing is that requires some voodoo shit right there.

CON 282
LAB 275
SNP 52
LIB DEM 25
UKIP 2
GREEN 2

True, true, but that's why it's so interesting. I want to see if any Gaffer can nail it

 

[CyclopsRock]

I think the LDs will do better than ya'll think for reasons that have nothing to do with data and everything to do with my arse:

CON 285
LAB 262
SNP 48
LIB DEM 32
UKIP 2
GREEN 1

 

[MrChom]

CON 278
LAB 270
SNP 42
LIB DEM 28
UKIP 5
GREEN 1

I think we'll almost certainly see it staying within 5-10 seats at the top, and I think Scotland has a likelihood of not being as SNP as reported.

 

[Kathian]

Con 275
Lab 275

For the lulz

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I think the LDs will do better than ya'll think for reasons that have nothing to do with data and everything to do with my arse:

CON 285
LAB 262
SNP 48
LIB DEM 32
UKIP 2
GREEN 1

See, my arse was shocked with how badly the Lib Dems have collapsed in my local constituency, and so my arse (rightly or wrongly) extrapolated that to national level.

 

[hepburn3d]

Optimistic
CON 275
LAB 292
SNP 48
LIB DEM 14
UKIP 0
GREEN 1

Pessimistic
CON 285
LAB 252
SNP 48
LIB DEM 32
UKIP 12
GREEN 1

Realistic
CON 275
LAB 272
SNP 48
LIB DEM 20
UKIP 14
GREEN 1

I'll be glad to have Thursday over with. I can't stand the media any more and the hate from the right towards the left is disgusting. I'm all for people having their views but to disrespect others because you're so determined to get your way is sickening to me.

 

[Jezbollah]

Con: 285
Lab: 270
SNP: 43
LD: 29
UKIP: 2
Green: 1
Others: 20


One DEAD CERT prediction: People will be kicking off about the polls closing and queues because they didnt bother to organise their time to vote tomorrow. Happened last time, will happen this time.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Realistic

UKIP 14

U wot m8

 

[hepburn3d]

U wot m8

Yea ok maybe my pessimism is blinding me a bit here. If the vote was based on proportional representation I would stick by that though.

 

[Tak3n]

Optimistic
CON 275
LAB 292
SNP 48
LIB DEM 14
UKIP 0
GREEN 1

Pessimistic
CON 285
LAB 252
SNP 48
LIB DEM 32
UKIP 12
GREEN 1

Realistic
CON 275
LAB 272
SNP 48
LIB DEM 20
UKIP 14
GREEN 1

I'll be glad to have Thursday over with. I can't stand the media any more and the hate from the right towards the left is disgusting. I'm all for people having their views but to disrespect others because you're so determined to get your way is sickening to me.

UKIP are never getting 14 seats...

 

[MrChom]

One DEAD CERT prediction: People will be kicking off about the polls closing and queues because they didnt bother to organise their time to vote tomorrow. Happened last time, will happen this time.

Anyone in the queue at time of poll closure gets to vote this time after a change to voting regs in 2013. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-england-32292408

 

[Tak3n]

Ed Miliband on Radio 5 right now


Refusing to answer any questions on about what will happen if he does not get a majority....

However he just said he will put forward a queens speech with all of his manifesto

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Yea ok maybe my pessimism is blinding me a bit here. If the vote was based on proportional representation I would stick by that though.

If it was via PR they'd get 90-odd.

 

[Jezbollah]

Anyone in the queue at time of poll closure gets to vote this time after a change to voting regs in 2013. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-england-32292408

Cheers - and thank god.

 

[Tak3n]

Ed Miliband


"I simply can not do a deal with the SNP because of their stance on independence"

 

[MrChom]

Ed Miliband


"I simply can not do a deal with the SNP because of their stance on independence"

This talk from all sides just confounds me.

I am not Scottish, I am a dyed in the wool unionist of the highest order....but the SNP are likely to be the bulk of the views of the people of Scotland. I'm not saying bring them in and make Salmond DPM....but for major parties to refuse to deal with them entirely only serves to further their cause. By taking Scottish political will and blocking it you are already saying they have no place in the union. By all means say no formal coalition....but to refuse ANY deal at all....

 

[jimbobsmells]

No deal as long as they want independence... Which is more important to Ed - the union, the views of the Scottish electorate or his desire to be PM?

 

[Tak3n]

This talk from all sides just confounds me.

I am not Scottish, I am a dyed in the wool unionist of the highest order....but the SNP are likely to be the bulk of the views of the people of Scotland. I'm not saying bring them in and make Salmond DPM....but for major parties to refuse to deal with them entirely only serves to further their cause. By taking Scottish political will and blocking it you are already saying they have no place in the union. By all means say no formal coalition....but to refuse ANY deal at all....

I agree 100% it is like they are saying to the Scottish people, you have fucked with the status quo, but we are still going to ignore you...

They are about to come the 3rd largest party, potentially double the size of the Lib-Dems, but all parties are refusing to acknowledge them

 

[MrChom]

If it was via PR they'd get 90-odd.

Yup, full PR based on the BBC Poll of Polls says the following:

Con 221
Lab 215
UKIP 91
LD 52
Green 33
Others 39

Pretty much guaranteeing the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and Northern Irish parties would vote against reform to this, and maybe even to larger STV constituencies.

Also, this might be more fair...but by god it would be a MESS to govern, and is dangerously close to a Con/UKIP/DUP government of my nightmares....

 

[PJV3]

This talk from all sides just confounds me.

I am not Scottish, I am a dyed in the wool unionist of the highest order....but the SNP are likely to be the bulk of the views of the people of Scotland. I'm not saying bring them in and make Salmond DPM....but for major parties to refuse to deal with them entirely only serves to further their cause. By taking Scottish political will and blocking it you are already saying they have no place in the union. By all means say no formal coalition....but to refuse ANY deal at all....

Labour will be constantly under attack from the media, the government would get bogged down and probably fold under the pressure. I think Ed should/might talk to the SNP, but it's going to be easier to just manage his own party.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Yup, full PR based on the BBC Poll of Polls says the following:

Con 221
Lab 215
UKIP 91
LD 52
Green 33
Others 39

Pretty much guaranteeing the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and Northern Irish parties would vote against reform to this, and maybe even to larger STV constituencies.

Also, this might be more fair...but by god it would be a MESS to govern, and is dangerously close to a Con/UKIP/DUP government of my nightmares....

Other countries manage just fine with similar results. It's not as if FPTP is currently producing nice and easy stable majorities and I don't see that changing any time soon.
I would be more than willing to accept a high number of UKIP parliamentarians if it means the UK finally get's its act together and introduces a fair PR type system.

 

[Par Score]

There are something ridiculous like 8 polls due today/early tomorrow morning, including from 'gold standard' pollsters ICM and IPSOS-MORI.

Make or break time.

 

[MrChom]

Other countries manage just fine with similar results. It's not as if FPTP is currently producing nice and easy stable majorities and I don't see that changing any time soon.
I would be more than willing to accept a high number of UKIP parliamentarians if it means the UK finally get's its act together and introduces a fair PR type system.

Very true, and I do support a fairer system, but it's going to create a very uncomfortable adjustment period where we need to work out how to coalition properly....we've had a taste and it's been bad so far...apparently we need to coalition harder!

 

[Cyd0nia]

This talk from all sides just confounds me.

I am not Scottish, I am a dyed in the wool unionist of the highest order....but the SNP are likely to be the bulk of the views of the people of Scotland. I'm not saying bring them in and make Salmond DPM....but for major parties to refuse to deal with them entirely only serves to further their cause. By taking Scottish political will and blocking it you are already saying they have no place in the union. By all means say no formal coalition....but to refuse ANY deal at all....

I'm from north west England and I agree wholeheartedly. The Tories and labour campaigned for continued support of FPTP and for Scotland to remain in the Union, and the moment they can't form a majority, they both start bending over backwards looking for sneaky deals and ways to run a minority government rather than work with the MPs sent to Westminster by Scotland.

I am disgusted by it to be honest. In a civil war it makes me feel I'd side with the Scots, who at least aren't two faced shitlords desperately clinging to the status quo.

 

[jimbobsmells]

http://gu.com/p/485pk
I don't always agree with monbiot but I like this.

 

[Protome]

Ed Miliband


"I simply can not do a deal with the SNP because of their stance on independence"

It's so absurd. SNP having more power in Westminster would make a second Independence referendum less likely. A deal with Labour which says "No independence referendum while this deal is around" would be one of the first things SNP would accept, it's why they haven't talked about Independence at all this election.

 

[CyclopsRock]

What kind of natty system of PR leads to the SNP having no seats? What boundaries were they using?

Edit: oh they were under "other"! Sorry I'm a silly billy.


There's a woman opposite me on the Tube with a "baby on board" badge. Can you buy those? Asking for a friend.

 

[Tak3n]

fairly eye opening statement on why FPTP is wrong


UKIP based on current polls will have roughly 4 million votes, and will probably end up with 1 MP

SNP will get under 2 million votes yet will have 50 MP's

 

[MrChom]

Edit: oh they were under "other"! Sorry I'm a silly billy.

Yup, the BBC Poll of Polls sadly lacks the ability to view prediction numbers for anything lower than the Green vote.

 

[anonymous_abc]

fairly eye opening statement on why FPTP is wrong


UKIP based on current polls will have roughly 4 million votes, and will probably end up with 1 MP

SNP will get under 2 million votes yet will have 50 MP's

yea it's utterly utterly indefensible...

 

[CyclopsRock]

Hey guys, you know what would help? If you chose a random vote instead.

Also CityAM has come out for the Tories. GAME OVER, MAN!

 

[anonymous_abc]

Hey guys, you know what would help? If you chose a random vote instead.

 

[PJV3]

Also CityAM has come out for the Tories. GAME OVER, MAN!

Never heard of them, the bloke who hands out the Socialist worker at St George's said don't vote Tory, so there.

 

[Juicy Bob]

fairly eye opening statement on why FPTP is wrong


UKIP based on current polls will have roughly 4 million votes, and will probably end up with 1 MP

SNP will get under 2 million votes yet will have 50 MP's

I really want to see the voting system reformed in the UK because of how it works against minor parties, but then I really hate the idea of UKIP having so many MPs, which they would get if we used a different system.

Am I a hypocrite?

 

[Walshicus]

Yup, full PR based on the BBC Poll of Polls says the following:

Con 221
Lab 215
UKIP 91
LD 52
Green 33
Others 39

Pretty much guaranteeing the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and Northern Irish parties would vote against reform to this, and maybe even to larger STV constituencies.

Also, this might be more fair...but by god it would be a MESS to govern, and is dangerously close to a Con/UKIP/DUP government of my nightmares....

PR would also drive a change in behaviour of voters. Tactical voting goes away and more single issue parties are created and return MPs.

PR might be messy, and we risk giving real power to shitlords like Farage. But ultimately it's fairer.

Alternative vote should have been the stepping stone...

 

[Helloween]

I worried. My voting card hasn't shown up via post yet... is that normal?

 

[PJV3]

I really want to see the voting system reformed in the UK because of how it works against minor parties, but then I really hate the idea of UKIP having so many MPs, which they would get if we used a different system.

Am I a hypocrite?

There will be a realignment, i can vote for real left wingers, the swivel eyed loons will also get represented. It's fair, but you have to take the rough with the smooth.

The worst outcome for me would be 600 left wing parties who can't get their act together.

 

[Tak3n]

I really want to see the voting system reformed in the UK because of how it works against minor parties, but then I really hate the idea of UKIP having so many MPs, which they would get if we used a different system.

Am I a hypocrite?

kind of, you can not have one without the other, but I am a great believer in debate, by making sure parties like UKIP or even the BNP to some extent never get fair representation, you are trying to use democracy as a disguise to actually drown out large swathes of peoples opinion