-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
May 7th | UK General Election 2015 OT - Please go vote!
- Thread starter Volotaire
- Start date
- Status
CyclopsRock
Member
I don't understand what you mean when you say "a large shortfall they'll fill by getting councils to sell off" - a shortfall in budgets? But the whole point is that they're only selling the expensive ones anyway, right?
Edit: Sorry, I getcha. It's the expensive ones where they make the money to pay for the replacements. But surely this still means there'll be a shortfall in council homes, rather than budgets, since - whatever the value of the property - selling it nets them revenue (at the expense of a council house).
One of the themes of this election I've noticed is that if there is a left-wing media cabal secretly brainwashing the people, it must be asleep.
The have to pay the housing associations (which are private businesses they're strongarming into having to sell) the discount the Right to Buyers are getting. That money needs to come from somewhere. They intend in the future for that money to come from the sale of council houses (and also for that money to cure cancer/put a man on the moon) but as they cannot turf folk out to sell there's going to be a very big lag in received revenue. That money also has to replace the sold off council stock.
The initial cost of the RTB policy is being put at £4.5 billion to £6.5 billion. The proceeds from sell off the council stock comes in at £3.5 billion to £4.5 billion.
CyclopsRock
Member
Righto, gotcha. Cheers¬
The FT certainly don't like Labour, but they're not willing to piss their economic credentials up the wall to get a Tory government by saying things are a good idea when they are not.
They've also got some of the best analysts in the sector. David Allen Green is probably this country's best newspaper columnist.
I'm having a hard time understanding how the Tories policy announcements are even less plausible that UKIPs so far.
Internet censorship? Genuinely unworkable nonsense.
NHS funding? Completely uncosted.
Right-to-buy? Economically illiterate.
At least UKIP have generally been putting out policy announcements on smaller scale things they might actually be able to do, like electoral reform and sensible policies like zero VAT rating feminine hygiene products.
What bizzaro world is this? The main thing about UKIP was always that being made up of blustering Telegraph readers they were completely incompetent.
If I didn't think it was way too smart I'd wonder if Cameron had decided to try and kill off his competitors for Tory leadership. Javid got sent out twice in major interviews to get slaughtered, the Tory machine has given up defending Shapps, now May this morning for the same thing. Next week I'm half expecting Boris to be rolled out on some suicidal policy like gassing old people or something.
Internet censorship? Genuinely unworkable nonsense.
NHS funding? Completely uncosted.
Right-to-buy? Economically illiterate.
At least UKIP have generally been putting out policy announcements on smaller scale things they might actually be able to do, like electoral reform and sensible policies like zero VAT rating feminine hygiene products.
What bizzaro world is this? The main thing about UKIP was always that being made up of blustering Telegraph readers they were completely incompetent.
If I didn't think it was way too smart I'd wonder if Cameron had decided to try and kill off his competitors for Tory leadership. Javid got sent out twice in major interviews to get slaughtered, the Tory machine has given up defending Shapps, now May this morning for the same thing. Next week I'm half expecting Boris to be rolled out on some suicidal policy like gassing old people or something.
CyclopsRock
Member
Cameron doesn't care about his competitors. Even in the best case scenario where he stays as PM he'll be going in 2017 at the latest (this appears to be a largely open secret amongst the Tory press). Sure, maybe he'll do some manouvring to help his successor closer to the time but this is a massively dangerous way of doing that (not to mention the fact that Sajid, being as young as he is, won't be affected by this in any significant way).
It was more a joke about the Cabinet's performance than anything else.
But I do think Javid is done after this week.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
In their green energy bit, they compare three countries with a combined population of 17 million to the UK. Then they neglect to mention that Scotland makes up just under 50% of its energy through renewables. Good job, Greens.
That's depressingly thin and high level, even compared to Labour's effort.
CyclopsRock
Member
#HASHTAG
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
I have to admit that I was nervous when I heard about the RTB extension, thinking it could be a bit of a game changer but it would appear that it's standard Osborne shambles policy and will end up hurting them.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
One question I have for the Greens is to elaborate what they mean by "a rapid transition to a zero-carbon sustainable economy".
The SNP had the balls to come out in 2011 and get laughed at when they set out their vision to have Scotland 100% renewable by 2020. But here we are in 2015 with almost 50% of our electricity coming from renewables.
Political parties - especially smaller ones - should have a vision. This vision should go beyond the "oh we'll do this, we'll do that, and this will happen" short-term electioneering that established parties can safely carry out. If the Greens had any sense they'd be setting out 5-to-10 year plans and visions for how they will transform the country, not just upload a brochure filled with soundbites and hashtags.
The SNP had the balls to come out in 2011 and get laughed at when they set out their vision to have Scotland 100% renewable by 2020. But here we are in 2015 with almost 50% of our electricity coming from renewables.
Political parties - especially smaller ones - should have a vision. This vision should go beyond the "oh we'll do this, we'll do that, and this will happen" short-term electioneering that established parties can safely carry out. If the Greens had any sense they'd be setting out 5-to-10 year plans and visions for how they will transform the country, not just upload a brochure filled with soundbites and hashtags.
CyclopsRock
Member
I don't even care much about "affordable" homes. Just build more homes. Their initial price is basically irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and if it puts developers off actually putting spades in the ground, scrap it. More supply will inevitably put prices down, even if it's only because people who already have homes are moving into these plush nice new ones. Someone's gotta live in their old house.
I think the lesson of the campaign is kind of the opposite. The Greens have actually tried the hard but necessary long term vision stuff with the minimum income and lower working week proposals and got laughed at. It's probably best not to discuss them at election time. Long term planning doesn't happen there. You should focus on stuff you'd do in the first two years of government.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I mean, yes, but the cheaper these homes are to build, the more the government can build on a set budget, meaning the greater the increase in supply is.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Good to see there's a strong push back against this idiotic and shortsighted policy.
Hopefully they'll be grilled by the various TV talking heads throughout the day and the rest of the week...barring any other spectacularly stupid policy they might have in the wings.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
wow
Miles Quaritch
Member
CyclopsRock
Member
Yeah but at that point, the "affordability" is with the government, not whoever ends up with the house. Typically "affordable housing" means that it costs x% of the average local cost (or whatever). I'm not just talking about the government, either.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Whenever I read "I’m going to be blunt" I know I'm in for a treat, but this article just goes places I didn't know that could still exist in mainstream politics.
I am literally without speech.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
The two are obviously related, though. A house which is affordable to the government is unlikely to be the sort of house which can command a top tier price on the market.
CyclopsRock
Member
I think he's being pretty generous by refering to that as an "article". Also, I think any time someone talks about having "the Negro problem", perhaps they're looking in the wrong place for "solutions".
CyclopsRock
Member
I dunno, man. Location location location. A lot of what makes a house price its price is its location. Two houses on opposite sides of town might be basically identical but one might cost double the amount of the other. The disparity is even greater in London, and in small distances. A two bedroom Georgian flat in Clerkenwell or Mayfair will set you back the best part of a million quid. 3 miles away the exact same flat on my road (or, as I like to call it, "prostitute murdering territory" thanks to all the Ripper guided tours that go past my flat) would be a third of that. And these are both in Zone 1!
IMO it all depends on what land gets used to build em.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Jesus Christ...
CyclopsRock
Member
It's the Big White Book.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
While I understand that setting out grandiose plans and visions (especially the utopian ideals of the Green party) in election season is just asking to be eviscerated by the mainstream media, there is a lack of "hows" and "whens" in this manifesto. That and I can't help but feel that this Green manifesto is the end result of a group project by some 2nd-year university students who're studying politics and marketing.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Thank the jesus that they're this hopeless, I was worried about the manifesto launch last night but it would appear that they've ballsed that up too.
CyclopsRock
Member
Yeah, I agree. The problem with the grandiose, sweeping stuff is that there are so many variables that you can't give the required details which means it gets laughed at and picked a part. If you're going to tone it down and pick your battles, you can afford to get the specifics and the next-5-years stuff right, but it seems they've abandoned the big picture without actually benefitting from the more specific and succinct requirements of smaller policies.
It's also aimed at people with a very short attention span, apparantly.
It's a bit OT, but I often wonder how these tub-thumping nationalists view our occupation of numerous foreign countries.
It's OK for "us" to be in "their" countries, but not for them to be in ours?, bizarre logic.
I believe the classic racist/imperialist line is "bringing civilization to the savages", or something to that effect.
CyclopsRock
Member
My experience is actually that most are remarkably un-hypocritical on this point. They either take the idea of "it's their country, leave them to it" or "I don't care about other countries, I care about my country." Which is ignorant, but not actually hypocritical.
Is this official? Surely even UKIP wouldn't stand for this? Unless this guy is just a member and not standing for any seats?
Negro problem? What is this 1930s Germany?
killer_clank
Member
New TNS-BMRB Poll:
CON - 34% (+4)
LAB - 31% (-1)
UKIP - 14% (-5)
LDEM - 9% (+1)
GRN - 5% (+1)
CON - 34% (+4)
LAB - 31% (-1)
UKIP - 14% (-5)
LDEM - 9% (+1)
GRN - 5% (+1)
They don't stand for it publicly, maybe.
I love the fact that the post is followed by a banner that says "The Common Sense Party".
10/10
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I cringed a bit at the hashtags. And will cringe even more if their
When I lived in Japan (on a landing pass, so I wasn't supposed to work) I got paid essentially £20 an hour to help a Japanese businessman I met brush up his English skills. If I tell the average man on the street about that, their response is usually: "that's awesome"/"good on you"/"I wish I could do that"/etc. But if you ask them about some Latvian dude who came here legally and has a NI number and everything...
Okay, so the latest I've heard is that it's created by a far-right "troll" (read: racist). UKIP are aware of the blog, though haven't yet done anything about it. I'll go and edit it out of the post so as not to spread misinformation.
There's a wonderful image of a UKIP supporter in some comment section or other complaining that they live in Spain and nobody speaks English but I can't find it unfortunately.
The Green Party actually has a proper, full length, detailed manifesto. It's just hidden. It's at https://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/manifesto/Green_Party_2015_General_Election_Manifesto.pdf
It's much more detailed. Sadly that means some of it is completely contradictory and absolutely insane.
It's much more detailed. Sadly that means some of it is completely contradictory and absolutely insane.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I thought this would be the case.
I've just read the btinternet and hotmail email addresses on the second page and I'm ready to give up reading already. Was it too hard to give them professional-looking green party email addresses or link to their twitter accounts? If the shit won't get you a GAF account, it sure won't get you into Westminster.
Hmm what to believe, the grim picture painted by the Autumn statement/March Budget or the land of milk, honey and bj's painted by the Tory super giveway manifesto.
The Tories obviously think we have a reputation for fiscal competence lets see how far we can push it. It's all a bit desperate sounding. Vote for me, no? Free childcare. Still no? Buy your house. Oh, you don't rent a housing association home. Er, you on minimum wage? No income tax evah! Pay for it? Labour crashed the economy don't you know.
The Tories obviously think we have a reputation for fiscal competence lets see how far we can push it. It's all a bit desperate sounding. Vote for me, no? Free childcare. Still no? Buy your house. Oh, you don't rent a housing association home. Er, you on minimum wage? No income tax evah! Pay for it? Labour crashed the economy don't you know.
CyclopsRock
Member
Oh my god, this is too good (and you can see why they haven't made the PDF so that you can copy and paste the contents, at least from the browser):
"How about the chance for a Europe of self-reliance rather than free trade and indiscriminate growth?"
There's so much wrong in such a short sentence.
- What does "self-reliance" mean when you're referring to an entire continent?
- Growth, like gun fire, has the ability to be "indiscriminate", and this is apparantly a bad thing.
- I'm sure the rest of Europe would like to hear about all this indiscriminate growth, it may be interesting to them.
This is aside from their explanationless disdain for free trade (yet peculiar attachment to the free movement of people, as if the two aren't fundamentally the same thing).
"How about the chance for a Europe of self-reliance rather than free trade and indiscriminate growth?"
There's so much wrong in such a short sentence.
- What does "self-reliance" mean when you're referring to an entire continent?
- Growth, like gun fire, has the ability to be "indiscriminate", and this is apparantly a bad thing.
- I'm sure the rest of Europe would like to hear about all this indiscriminate growth, it may be interesting to them.
This is aside from their explanationless disdain for free trade (yet peculiar attachment to the free movement of people, as if the two aren't fundamentally the same thing).
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked