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[Guerrillas in the Mist]

There's a wonderful image of a UKIP supporter in some comment section or other complaining that they live in Spain and nobody speaks English but I can't find it unfortunately.

Oh my god, if that's true...

I remember reading about a UKIP bloke meeting ex-pats in Spain to tell them that they'd make sure they're safe when we "leave" Europe. But obviously hundreds of thousands of pensioners that make no effort to learn the language benefit the Spanish economy in a way that hard-working, tax-paying Bulgarians don't over here.

 

[kmag]

Last month YouGov ran a poll to find out whether people thought extending the right to buy to housing association tenants (the policy announced by the Conservatives today) last month. Some 39% of respondents said it was a bad idea, 34% said it was a good idea, and the rest did not have a view.

Vote winnah!

 

[Humidex]

Tuesday's front pages.

Just like the old days right at the end of Newsnight!

 

[Jezbollah]

Conservative Party Election Manifesto 2015

 

[D4Danger]

The more I think about this Right to Buy policy the worse it gets. One of the bigger problems with housing in this country is the lack of affordable social housing, so to resolve this the Tories want to remove social housing. Bizarre.

It's the worst policy at the worst time. This country desperately needs affordable housing and their big idea is to sell of what we have and then make sure they're protected from the tax man when they hand it down. It's outrageous.

 

[kmag]

It's the worst policy at the worst time. This country desperately needs affordable housing and their big idea is to sell of what we have and then make sure they're protected from the tax man when they hand it down. It's outrageous.

It says a lot the only housing group they can find to support it, is onemillionhomes who are ran by the wife of a Tory MP.

 

[pulsemyne]

So they resurrect right to buy, one of the worst ideas ever, and boast about it as their somewhat main manifesto idea? It's....I'm sorry I just cannot find the words.

 

[kmag]

IFS on the Tory Manifesto

One thing the prime minister didn’t make too much of but did say, was that he was reaffirming a commitment to getting the overall budget into surplus by 2018. That implies something really dramatic - and we’re talking tens and tens of billions of pounds worth of spending cuts or tax increases even before you start to think about some of the promises that we’ve heard on the National Health Service, on increasing the personal tax allowance.
So what you got was a lot of the good stuff of course - more money for childcare, more money for the health service and so on - but absolutely no detail on the bad stuff, which is there’s going to have to continue to be really big cuts on welfare spending, really big cuts in local government spending, really big cuts in all the other bits of spending which haven’t been specifically protected.

 

[Mindwipe]

Conservative Party Election Manifesto 2015

Man is that thing ugly. Seriously, I thought the Tory party had money, could they not find a graphic designer who was willing to work for them?

Also the civil liberties section is fucking terrifying.

Note that the commitment to scrap the HRA now doesn't include withdrawing from the ECHR (some wag has probably pointed out that's not actually possible). So everything in the HRA would still apply, but now the government would have to take every case to court under their Bill of Rights, and then again to the ECHR which would inevitably overrule it, with two sets of costs. Achieving nothing but spending a fortune in the process.

*Headdesk*

 

[Uzzy]

It'd achieve exactly what's wanted, lots of press coverage about the great and noble British Supreme Court being overruled by those terrible bureaucratic tyrants at the ECHR.

 

[War Peaceman]

The conservative party manifesto is insane. Not just disagreeable, but completely bonkers. Completely wrongheaded and incoherent.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Can someone give the cliff notes on what they say about civil liberties?

Thanks!

 

[Mindwipe]

It'd achieve exactly what's wanted, lots of press coverage about the great and noble British Supreme Court being overruled by those terrible bureaucratic tyrants at the ECHR.

Surely at some point even the dumbest of people will point out the Tories have been the government for five years and haven't done it. It would just make them look weak and inept, and hand votes to UKIP. That's the last thing the Conservatives should want given the leadership has committed to campaigning to staying in Europe.

 

[Jezbollah]

I just had a chance to look at the Greens "manifesto".

Did they really release that and expect anyone to take them seriously?

It reminds me of my woodwork GCSE exam of a box I knocked up in 1hr one lunchtime after spending the six months prior playing top trumps.

 

[Mindwipe]

Can someone give the cliff notes on what they say about civil liberties?

Thanks!

"Extremist" groups who don't even advocate violence will be banned. Previously mentioned mass censorship online to protect children. Very wide ranging security services powers. More attacks on legal aid.

And this gem from Cameron's opening statement.

"Other parties might be wary of causing offence, or of being criticised by those who see every single measure as an affront to their civil liberties. I know the threats. I have to make the judgement calls needed to tackle them. And I know this above all: our generation must fight the threat of Islamist extremism with the same resolve and tenacity as any threat Britain has faced before. Because this is the Conservative party – and we will never take risks with our nation's security."

 

[FlammableD]

That YouGov Nowcast thing is interesting. My constituency shows up as leaning right on every item, but somehow ends up voting Lib Dem over the Tories.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Surely at some point even the dumbest of people will point out the Tories have been the government for five years and haven't done it. It would just make them look weak and inept, and hand votes to UKIP. That's the last thing the Conservatives should want given the leadership has committed to campaigning to staying in Europe.

Presumably those same people will point out that they've been in coalition with a party that's very pro-ECHR?

 

[Mindwipe]

Presumably those same people will point out that they've been in coalition with a party that's very pro-ECHR?

That's the only plausible thinking, but it's tactically inept or insane.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

The longer this goes on the more it the future of the country depends on kippers holding their nerve and voting for their party and not the Tories.

If they go back to the Tories that slim labour lead evaporates, and we're left with a minority Tory government. Possibly propped up again by the lib dems.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

"Extremist" groups who don't even advocate violence will be banned. Previously mentioned mass censorship online to protect children. Very wide ranging security services powers. More attacks on legal aid.

And this gem from Cameron's opening statement.

Christ, that sounds more terrible than I imagined it would.

Just what is their problem with legal aid? Do they want people to just meekly accept whatever happens and let their employers off with discrimination and whatever else?

Sigh...

 

[Mindwipe]

Christ, that sounds more terrible than I imagined it would.

Just what is their problem with legal aid? Do they want people to just meekly accept whatever happens and let their employers off with discrimination and whatever else?

Sigh...

Yes? Fair trials are pretty expensive and inconvenient to an authoritarian state.

 

[industrian]

That YouGov Nowcast thing is interesting. My constituency shows up as leaning right on every item, but somehow ends up voting Lib Dem over the Tories.

Is it a rural area with a few towns? With said towns having a college/university campus or otherwise student-y places?

 

[CyclopsRock]

That's the only plausible thinking, but it's tactically inept or insane.

I dunno. Saying "We wanted to do this last time but coalition meant we couldn't. We still want to do it." isn't that mental.

 

[RedShift]

I'm on my phone so I can't link it but I saw a pretty funny clip on Twitter of Michael Gove. Someone asks him if it's too late to win the election and (presumably mishearing) he cheerfully says 'yes!' and walks off.

 

[jimbobsmells]

Christ, that sounds more terrible than I imagined it would.

Just what is their problem with legal aid? Do they want people to just meekly accept whatever happens and let their employers off with discrimination and whatever else?

Sigh...

It allows those bothersome little plebs to bring expensive and tiresome action against respectible party donors such as myself. Action, I might add, they couldn't have afforded otherwise.
Civil liberties are an inconvenience, away with them all I say.
Did he mention the right to turf out private tenants at will? I lobbied for that one.

 

[D4Danger]

I'm on my phone so I can't link it but I saw a pretty funny clip on Twitter of Michael Gove. Someone asks him if it's too late to win the election and (presumably mishearing) he cheerfully says 'yes!' and walks off.

https://twitter.com/feedthedrummer/status/587969413611159552

 

[danowat]

Going back to the RTB scheme for a minute.

The ONS lists socially rented housing at 4.1 million people, and privately rented housing at 4.2 million.

So what about those 4.2 million chumps in private rented housing who don't qualify for socially rented housing?, they get left in the middle again, those that work for a living, but don't earn enough to buy a house, and earn to much to qualify for social housing.

 

[King_Moc]

"Extremist" groups who don't even advocate violence will be banned. Previously mentioned mass censorship online to protect children. Very wide ranging security services powers. More attacks on legal aid.

And this gem from Cameron's opening statement.

Trying to win their right wing core voters back from ukip, I see.

 

[Mr Git]

I know the threats. I have to make the judgement calls needed to tackle them.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Going back to the RTB scheme for a minute.

The ONS lists socially rented housing at 4.1 million people, and privately rented housing at 4.2 million.

So what about those 4.2 million chumps in private rented housing who don't qualify for socially rented housing?, they get left in the middle again, those that work for a living, but don't earn enough to buy a house, and earn to much to qualify for social housing.

I suspect they'd say "That's what Help To Buy is for."

 

[danowat]

I suspect they'd say "That's what Help To Buy is for."

Didn't work the last time they did it, won't work this time.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Didn't work the last time they did it, won't work this time.

Depends what you mean by "work", really. It makes it easier to get a house, which is the point. Both this and Right to Buy Mrk II: Revenge of Thatcher will push up house prices thus reinforcing the need for what amounts to government subsidies for housing, so neither actually solve the problem.

 

[D4Danger]

Going back to the RTB scheme for a minute.

The ONS lists socially rented housing at 4.1 million people, and privately rented housing at 4.2 million.

So what about those 4.2 million chumps in private rented housing who don't qualify for socially rented housing?, they get left in the middle again, those that work for a living, but don't earn enough to buy a house, and earn to much to qualify for social housing.

now imagine when they also sell those 4.1m socially rented houses and there's nothing for anyone. The next generation (the ones after the ones that got fucked by this last time) will have even less choice and opportunities as social housing is flipped, privately rented and/or handed down and there's nothing to replace it because who is going to build low cost housing for the dirty poors? It's as broad an attack as I can imagine right now. It literally fucks everyone except those who can afford to buy right now..

 

[Mindwipe]

I dunno. Saying "We wanted to do this last time but coalition meant we couldn't. We still want to do it." isn't that mental.

I think it's crazy because you're just storing problems up for yourself come EU referendum time, and because anti-Europe sentiment doesn't mean votes for the Tories, it means votes for UKIP.

 

[FlammableD]

Is it a rural area with a few towns? With said towns having a college/university campus or otherwise student-y places?

Not particularly. Heart of London/Surrey commuter territory: https://yougov.co.uk/#/constituency/455/nowcast/

 

[Norwegian_Imposter]

The conservatives seem really lost this time around

 

[CyclopsRock]

Not particularly. Heart of London/Surrey commuter territory: https://yougov.co.uk/#/constituency/455/nowcast/

Heh, I knew it'd be there. That's where I grew up. Burstow showed us around the House of Commons on a school trip once.

 

[kitch9]

Oh my god, if that's true...

I remember reading about a UKIP bloke meeting ex-pats in Spain to tell them that they'd make sure they're safe when we "leave" Europe. But obviously hundreds of thousands of pensioners that make no effort to learn the language benefit the Spanish economy in a way that hard-working, tax-paying Bulgarians don't over here.

Pensioners do turn up with bucket loads of cash earned over a lifetime and don't want jobs in return though.

Bit of a win win for the Spanish.

I'm from Doncaster I can show you entire streets of not very hard working and pretty violent eastern Europeans that have made large areas effectively no go areas.

Obviously not all immigrants are like that but please don't pretend that they are all gravy.

 

[Kathian]

For me the Housing policy is only getting the right hot and bothered because it was a Thatcher policy. Ultimately housing stock is in a much worst situation. Not sure how this works to 'the working man' whose faced issues with Housing and has children who will be needing a house.

 

[CyclopsRock]

My girlfriend lived in Spain for a year whilst working in Gibraltar. She got paid in pounds so she ended up getting a decent exchange rate, low cost of living and didn't pay any tax in Spain (except the INSANE amounts of food and drink we bought every other weekend when I went over there). We're going back in June. I like Spain.

 

[kmag]

Pensioners do turn up with bucket loads of cash earned over a lifetime and don't want jobs in return though.

Bit of a win win for the Spanish.

I'm from Doncaster I can show you entire streets of not very hard working and pretty violent eastern Europeans that have made large areas effectively no go areas.

Obviously not all immigrants are like that but please don't pretend that they are all gravy.

Not really a win for the Spanish, as they have to pay for health and the social care (although old age homes are relatively rare in Spain). Once the expat gets a tarjeta sanitaria (a few weeks after registering with the local authority as living in Spain) they have the same rights to healthcare as a Spanish citizen.

 

[FlammableD]

Heh, I knew it'd be there. That's where I grew up. Burstow showed us around the House of Commons on a school trip once.

Hah! I'm moving to Tory Guildford in a few months, god help me.

 

[CyclopsRock]

You dont need help, you have the Spectrum!! I used to love that place.

 

[kitch9]

Not really a win for the Spanish, as they have to pay for health and the social care (although old age homes are relatively rare in Spain). Once the expat gets a tarjeta sanitaria (a few weeks after registering with the local authority as living in Spain) they have the same rights to healthcare as a Spanish citizen.

The long term sick probably wouldn't fancy moving to Spain. Those who are skint wouldn't either.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Anyone else watching Skint? Fucking Wales, man.

 

[kmag]

The long term sick probably wouldn't fancy moving to Spain. Those who are skint wouldn't either.

The old move. The old get sick.

 

[kmag]

YouGov/Sun poll tonight – Labour lead by two: CON 33%, LAB 35%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 5%.

 

[tomtom94]

YouGov/Sun poll tonight – Labour lead by two: CON 33%, LAB 35%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 5%.

Bets on what page of tomorrow's paper that'll end up on? I'm going with 7.

 

[King_Moc]

YouGov/Sun poll tonight – Labour lead by two: CON 33%, LAB 35%, LD 8%, UKIP 13%, GRN 5%.

Still suggesting a slight Labour lead. Hope that holds and people aren't swung by these bizarre desperation moves from the Conservatives. "Oh, err, we actually LOVE working people now. Have some money I found down the sofa, and definitely not from peoples welfare.". Ok, Dave.

Bets on what page of tomorrow's paper that'll end up on? I'm going with 7.

Now, that would depend on the paper. I do wonder how they'll all react if Red Ed wins it? They can't be instantly negative towards him as new PM, surely?

Well, not until he starts forcing the fuckers to actually pay some tax.

 

[tomtom94]

Now, that would depend on the paper. I do wonder how they'll all react if Red Ed wins it? They can't be instantly negative towards him as new PM, surely?

Well, not until he starts forcing the fuckers to actually pay some tax.

To be clear I meant the Sun since they're the ones commissioning that poll.

As for the papers' opinio in general, well that will depend entirely on how reliant Ed is on the SNP and how likely it is he will have to call an early election. If it looks like he's in it for the long haul no doubt Murdoch will invite himself over to 10 Downing Street for lunch, but otherwise I think the papers are already printed regardless of the result - there's going to be an awful lot of different reasons why Miliband is unconstitutional and the Conservatives really won the election, I suspect (and a few robust ripostes in the Grauniad and the Indy).