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[Flying_Phoenix]

Yeah. Are you underlining my point or are you trying to say that's good?

SF4 on 360 did that. 360. Yes, that console. In Japan. So how in sam hell shit is that a good number for TvC on Wii?

Are you honestly comparing TvC and SFIV? Seriously? The difference in those games erosion and market is big. Just look at Arcadia's Top 10 list as SFIV is significantly higher then TvC.

 

[WinFonda]

awww that's cute.

Mother always said I had pretty blue eyes!

The same publishers who loudly announce in the streets "Japan is irrelevant, we need to make our games for Western territories"?

I'm pretty sure Capcom is one of those "smart" publishers that have taken advantage of the HD consoles in the East and the West. But I really am curious, if the PS3/360 combined numbers are poor, then what is doing good? And I suppose you can say "nothing is" but that just sounds like a cop-out.

 

[WinFonda]

edit; double post

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I'm pretty sure Capcom is one of those "smart" publishers that have taken advantage of the HD consoles in the East and the West. But I really am curious, if the PS3/360 combined numbers are poor, then what is doing good? And I suppose you can say "nothing is" but that just sounds like a cop-out.

The DS tends to do alright.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think we need to stop talking about Microsoft moneyhats until we can quantify them.

get the extra PS3 150k units of sales for a game or a Moneyhat?

I'm thinking that-- based on recent sales-- it's ultimately going to be more than 150k and more than that considering WW sales. I just think exclusives are a quick way to shit up your future.

 

[gantz85]

The DS tends to do alright.

You don't have to be a World of Warcraft to make money as an MMO game.

Seriously, and you don't have to be a DS to be a viable platform.

 

[Jokeropia]

I'm also including the PS and PS2 periods -- hence, "long time".

I might have misinterpreted your post. I read it as they having a stranglehold that they have had for a long time, but I suppose that it could also mean that they used to have a stranglehold that they kept for a long time.

By Nintendo's account, the Gamecube sold 3.4 million in Japan (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/news/040527e.pdf)

Nope, final shipments were 4.02 million, and according to trackers it's all sold through.

Yeah. Are you underlining my point or are you trying to say that's good?

SF4 on 360 did that. 360. Yes, that console. In Japan. So how in sam hell shit is that a good number for TvC on Wii?

Uh, main games tend to outsell spinoffs.

 

[inner-G]

Can someone tell me why GT5 Spec III is selling? How does it have such long legs at 11.83%? Is it a pack-in with all hardware now?

cheap + fun = sales?

 

[spwolf]

cheap + fun = sales?

yep... well over 100 hours into it when I stopped playing mine.

 

[Deku]

You can never quantify moneyhats, and I really prefer to call them subsidies, because they don't always involve direct payments.

The very fact that Sony and Microsoft are STILL absorbing part of the cost of every hardware sold at retail is essentially a subsidy to developers. Without it, the hardware will be much more expensive and there is a whole knock-on effect down the food chain of the 'ecosystem'.

The combined ~8-10 billion lost this generation alone between Sony and Microsoft's gaming divisions are in whole or in part a subsidy to developers, because a whole lot of it is absorbing hardware cost and of course buying off developers to develop games that would otherwise not get made.

 

[gantz85]

You can never quantify moneyhats, and I really prefer to call them subsidies, because they don't always involve direct payments.

The very fact that Sony and Microsoft are STILL absorbing part of the cost of every hardware sold at retail is essentially a subsidy to developers. Without it, the hardware will be much more expensive and there is a whole knock-on effect down the food chain of the 'ecosystem'.

The combined ~8-10 billion lost this generation alone between Sony and Microsoft's gaming division are in whole or in party a subsidy to developers, because a whole lot of it is absorbing hardware cost and of course the money hats and funding LAIR.

Moneyhats is a figurative term, it doesn't necessarily involve hard cash. I'm sure you know, but you're insistent on subsidies, which is correct.

The initial loss absorption strategy for hardware was a reasonable one that has been employed for generations. I don't see your point.

Sony's huge hardware losses stem primarily from Blu-rayt. That issue goes farrrr beyond just subsidies to developers as we know.

 

[Y2Kev]

You can never quantify moneyhats, and I really prefer to call them subsidies, because they don't always involve direct payments.

The very fact that Sony and Microsoft are STILL absorbing part of the cost of every hardware sold at retail is essentially a subsidy to developers. Without it, the hardware will be much more expensive and there is a whole knock-on effect down the food chain of the 'ecosystem'.

The combined ~8-10 billion lost this generation alone between Sony and Microsoft's gaming divisions are in whole or in part a subsidy to developers, because a whole lot of it is absorbing hardware cost and of course buying off developers to develop games that would otherwise not get made.

Sure. My point was that I think the picture is much murkier than, "Be multiplatform or be exclusive and take MS' moneyhat."

 

[sphinx]

Sure. My point was that I think the picture is much murkier than, "Be multiplatform or be exclusive and take MS' moneyhat."

so to get to the point, what would be the most likely reason for Square Enix to make LR and SO4 360 exclusive in Japan, if not big a moneyhat of some sort?

pure stupidity? a grudge against Sony?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

This week will be interesting for RE5 and Yakuza 3 sales numbers, as well as PS3 hardware. There's a mini-punch coming up as well with Warriors Orochi Z out exclusively for PS3 on March 12th.

The Warriors Orochi franchise has never been released on the PS3 but two of its titles have been released for Xbox360. It was also released for the PS2 and PSP. Now Warriors Orochi Z, not a new game but a combination of its prior two with some new content (i.e. it is a cheap ripoff) is coming out only for PS3; not sure if any PSP port is in the works.

Here's why Orochi Z is not going to be released for 360 (hint: bomba).

...

Eh, you're getting it a bit wrong. Orochi Z is Orochi 1+2, neither PS2 nor PSP nor 360 are going to get it because they already got it. This is the 4th system getting the same two games, just repackaged together at 7500Y.

It'll probably do better than 360 releases but its a lazy, late, and expensive port.

 

[H_Prestige]

so to get to the point, what would be the most likely reason for Square Enix to make LR and SO4 360 exclusive in Japan, if not big a moneyhat of some sort?

pure stupidity? a grudge against Sony?

LR isn't exclusive. Whether it ends up being canceled for the ps3 is another story, but it is technically multi, ever since it was announced. And SO4 has that whole Tri-Ace situation. I doubt SE has any grudge against Sony and making games for the ps3, otherwise FFXIII and Versus XIII would have been announced as 360 exclusives in 2006.

 

[Paracelsus]

LR isn't exclusive. Whether it ends up being canceled for the ps3 is another story, but it is technically multi, ever since it was announced. And SO4 has that whole Tri-Ace situation. I doubt SE has any grudge against Sony and making games for the ps3, otherwise FFXIII and Versus XIII would have been announced as 360 exclusives in 2006.

._.

- The games were announced before the whole PS3 debacle, and at that point they probably had spent too much funds to move the project as a whole. Thus, the White Engine becoming the Crystal Tools and so on.

- Do you really think UE can cause SO many problems on PS3 to the point of delaying the game for one entire year? The fact itself they announced the delay in June 2008 without even trying to get it done within November sounds strange.

- Versus XIII is multiplatform, they just have kept the whole thing secret, in order to leave another megaton for this (or the next?) TGS.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Yeah. Are you underlining my point or are you trying to say that's good?

SF4 on 360 did that. 360. Yes, that console. In Japan. So how in sam hell shit is that a good number for TvC on Wii?

Dynasty Warriors 6 on X360 outsold Samurai Warriors Katana on Wii, too.

The marginalization of the PS3/360 in Japan is beginning to stink like bullshit. Especially where it concerns PS3, as it's looking like one of the more viable platforms in Japan as of late. They're pulling in very respectable software hauls.

Ehh, I dunno. We sometimes joke about how PS3 hardware sells similarly to GameCube, but its total software sure isn't keeping up.

 

[Paracelsus]

Two things:

Why at #8 it says "Pokémon Colosseum - Publisher: Pokémon"

and

9 out of 10 NGC titles in the top 10 are Nintendo ones. That says a lot.

 

[charlequin]

so to get to the point, what would be the most likely reason for Square Enix to make LR and SO4 360 exclusive in Japan, if not big a moneyhat of some sort?

TLR isn't 360 exclusive anywhere. IU was originally a Microsoft-published product, and SO4 is 360 exclusive partially as a result of that (and since tri-Ace is an independent developer, not a subsidiary of S-E, neither game's platform is exactly a "Square-Enix decision" in the same way.)

 

[Stumpokapow]

Ehh, I dunno. We sometimes joke about how PS3 hardware sells similarly to GameCube, but its total software sure isn't keeping up.

ya but wat about 3rd party softwaer mr smart pant!!!!

 

[DDayton]

Why at #8 it says "Pokémon Colosseum - Publisher: Pokémon"

Nintendo, Game Freak, and Creatures jointly own "The Pokemon Company", which exists (as far as I understand it) solely to produce Pokemon stuff. It's still essentially Nintendo, just under a subcatagory/company which they partially own.

 

[sphinx]

you people fail to see my point, this isn't about SE or tri-ace or whatever, that was just an example. The real question is

WHY are big budget, Japanese oriented games being released exclusively on the 360 without a PS3 version of it?? (with the occasional "yeah, we'll have a PS3 port sometime, eventually" comment being thrown around)

If not moneyhats, then I really want to know what the hell is being discussed on the publisher's business meetings.

 

[Paracelsus]

Nintendo, Game Freak, and Creatures jointly own "The Pokemon Company", which exists (as far as I understand it) solely to produce Pokemon stuff. It's still essentially Nintendo, just under a subcatagory/company which they partially own.

Thanks.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

ya but wat about 3rd party softwaer mr smart pant!!!!

Nintendo knows it can't rely on 3rd parties, so it had to redesign it's strategy around the idea that the 3rd parties aren't to be relied upon.

 

[v1cious]

LOL Star Ocean dropped fast.

silly Square

 

[thaOwner]

._.

- The games were announced before the whole PS3 debacle, and at that point they probably had spent too much funds to move the project as a whole. Thus, the White Engine becoming the Crystal Tools and so on.

- Do you really think UE can cause SO many problems on PS3 to the point of delaying the game for one entire year? The fact itself they announced the delay in June 2008 without even trying to get it done within November sounds strange.

- Versus XIII is multiplatform, they just have kept the whole thing secret, in order to leave another megaton for this (or the next?) TGS.

This is what I've been thinking to myself ever since the initial announcement last year (?). I always figured SE decided
not go into details about the exclusivity of versus until FXIII launches and then, Microsoft will have the honors again..:lol

 

[Johann]

you people fail to see my point, this isn't about SE or tri-ace or whatever, that was just an example. The real question is

WHY are big budget, Japanese oriented games being released exclusively on the 360 without a PS3 version of it?? (with the occasional "yeah, we'll have a PS3 port sometime, eventually" comment being thrown around)

If not moneyhats, then I really want to know what the hell is being discussed on the publisher's business meetings.

From what I'm reading from the more candid Japanese interviews (such as with Feelplus and Capcom employees in both this gen and last gen), the big name Japanese developers are under a lot of pressure to gain a foothold in the Western market. They are having difficulty getting new ideas approved (and if they are approved, they have to work under severe budget and time constraints) with the higher ups saying (not without merit) that "it won't sell here or it's just too expensive." The funny thing is that this was already bad during them middle of the PS2 era when Western developers started to gain more of a stranglehold in overseas markets. Back then in the company, there was a quite a bit hysteria with talk of mergers (such as the speculated Capcom-Konami merger) and budget constraints. The move to HD just exacerbated these issues.

A Capcom employee, who worked on Shadow of Rome IIRC, talked about how important it was for the company to be competitive in the overseas market. He had been working the industry for a quite long time and talked about the rise and fall of Japanese game companies. He talked about how a company (he talked about companies in general, not just game companies) would peak and fall when its costs began to outstrip their revenues. Instead of spending more money in trying to gain more customers or gaining ground in new markets with new games, the company would turtle up by cutting budgets and concentrating on reliable (but dead-end) markets with reliable games (that would not necessarily grow in sales). Eventually, the company would go belly up since their reliable but small market wouldn't be able to sustain them.

I recall one developer who compared the Japanese game industry to the Japanese movie industry. Japanese movies have to be made under certain budget and creative restrictions (it can't afford to be too 'un-Japanese' since it will alienate the local audience and you don't have a foreign market to fall back on) since they can mostly count on Japan box office and DVD sales. Similarly, it's getting difficult to fund Japanese games in HD since the Japanese market for those types of games is stagnating, or more likely, shrinking.

We'll also have to go into Japanese expectations of the 360. Feelplus's president, Ray Nakazato, talked about the original Japanese expectations on the 360 before (he has worked in both the US and Japanese game industry so he has a very unique view on the situation). Many Japanese developers wanted to stay at the sidelines and see how the generation worked out. However, a few expected the 360 to be a big hit worldwide. It wasn't anywhere as big a hit in Japan as some wished but it provided a springboard for Japanese developers to get sales from the overseas market. When it became clear the PS3 would be nowhere near as successful as the PS2, companies concerned more with growth rather than bottom line profit began to see the 360 as a viable platform.

We recently had Inafune come out and say outright that they heavily supported the 360 (and made the controversial decision to have some 360 exclusivity and break Playstation exclusivity with several of their big franchises) because it was adamant that Capcom gain significant success in the Western market. On the other hand, many other developers don't have the same luxuries as Capcom and are desperate to gain foothold in the West, even if it comes at the cost of the Japanese market. If it means going 360 exclusive (whether is it moneyhats, lower costs, earlier devkits, a 360 centered engine that is ready to go or any combination), they'll do that.

 

[Eteric Rice]

From what I'm reading from the more candid Japanese interviews (such as with Feelplus and Capcom employees in both this gen and last gen), the big name Japanese developers are under a lot of pressure to gain a foothold in the Western market. They are having difficulty getting new ideas approved (and if they are approved, they have to work under severe budget and time constraints) with the higher ups saying (not without merit) that "it won't sell here or it's just too expensive." The funny thing is that this was already bad during them middle of the PS2 era when Western developers started to gain more of a stranglehold in overseas markets. Back then in the company, there was a quite a bit hysteria with talk of mergers (such as the speculated Capcom-Konami merger) and budget constraints. The move to HD just exacerbated these issues.

A Capcom employee, who worked on Shadow of Rome IIRC, talked about how important it was for the company to be competitive in the overseas market. He had been working the industry for a quite long time and talked about the rise and fall of Japanese game companies. He talked about how a company (he talked about companies in general, not just game companies) would peak and fall when its costs began to outstrip their revenues. Instead of spending more money in trying to gain more customers or gaining ground in new markets with new games, the company would turtle up by cutting budgets and concentrating on reliable (but dead-end) markets with reliable games (that would not necessarily grow in sales). Eventually, the company would go belly up since their reliable but small market wouldn't be able to sustain them.

I recall one developer who compared the Japanese game industry to the Japanese movie industry. Japanese movies have to be made under certain budget and creative restrictions (it can't afford to be too 'un-Japanese' since it will alienate the local audience and you don't have a foreign market to fall back on) since they can mostly count on Japan box office and DVD sales. Similarly, it's getting difficult to fund Japanese games in HD since the Japanese market for those types of games is stagnating, or more likely, shrinking.

We'll also have to go into Japanese expectations of the 360. Feelplus's president, Ray Nakazato, talked about the original Japanese expectations on the 360 before (he has worked in both the US and Japanese game industry so he has a very unique view on the situation). Many Japanese developers wanted to stay at the sidelines and see how the generation worked out. However, a few expected the 360 to be a big hit worldwide. It wasn't anywhere as big a hit in Japan as some wished but it provided a springboard for Japanese developers to get sales from the overseas market. When it became clear the PS3 would be nowhere near as successful as the PS2, companies concerned more with growth rather than bottom line profit began to see the 360 as a viable platform.

We recently had Inafune come out and say outright that they heavily supported the 360 (and made the controversial decision to have some 360 exclusivity and break Playstation exclusivity with several of their big franchises) because it was adamant that Capcom gain significant success in the Western market. On the other hand, many other developers don't have the same luxuries as Capcom and are desperate to gain foothold in the West, even if it comes at the cost of the Japanese market. If it means going 360 exclusive (whether is it moneyhats, lower costs, earlier devkits, a 360 centered engine that is ready to go or any combination), they'll do that.

What about the Wii, why is it being ignored in Japan? It seems to me if a fan base can be built up, the Wii could potentially do well in both Japan and the West.

Interesting insight, by the way. Thanks for sharing.

 

[charlequin]

WHY are big budget, Japanese oriented games being released exclusively on the 360 without a PS3 version of it??

And the answer is "for a whole bunch of different reasons specific to the individual projects (and also almost all of these major 360 and PS3 games were announced a year ago or more so trying to extrapolate a current trend is kind of difficult)," which is pretty much the same answer you got the first time you asked.

 

[markatisu]

We recently had Inafune come out and say outright that they heavily supported the 360 (and made the controversial decision to have some 360 exclusivity and break Playstation exclusivity with several of their big franchises) because it was adamant that Capcom gain significant success in the Western market. On the other hand, many other developers don't have the same luxuries as Capcom and are desperate to gain foothold in the West, even if it comes at the cost of the Japanese market. If it means going 360 exclusive (whether is it moneyhats, lower costs, earlier devkits, a 360 centered engine that is ready to go or any combination), they'll do that.

Inafune also recently came out and said there is intense pressure on them to have success on the Wii with Monster Hunter G, so it seems there is a division of sorts forming.

 

[near]

And the answer is "for a whole bunch of different reasons specific to the individual projects (and also almost all of these major 360 and PS3 games were announced a year ago or more so trying to extrapolate a current trend is kind of difficult)," which is pretty much the same answer you got the first time you asked.

Most don't really want to hear this stuff, it's easier for them to comprehend 'moneyhats'.

 

[Y2Kev]

so to get to the point, what would be the most likely reason for Square Enix to make LR and SO4 360 exclusive in Japan, if not big a moneyhat of some sort?

pure stupidity? a grudge against Sony?

Charlequin answered your question already, etc etc. There are a few examples where I think sizable moneyhatting probably does exist (something like the Ace Combat games that still haven't seen a port 12+ months out and is now being packaged with 360s, Beautiful Katamari is another one...actually most of Namco's catalog in general lol).

I don't deny moneyhatting exists, but I highly doubt that moneyhatting sufficiently changes a game's profitability such that it could forego an entire platform. If that were the case, we'd see much more aggressive third parties looking for moneyhats. I think.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Inafune also recently came out and said there is intense pressure on them to have success on the Wii with Monster Hunter G, so it seems there is a division of sorts forming.

The gaming market shall turn Inafune into diamond.

 

[Johann]

What about the Wii, why is it being ignored in Japan? It seems to me if a fan base can be built up, the Wii could potentially do well in both Japan and the West.

Interesting insight, by the way. Thanks for sharing.

Many Japanese publishers are waiting to see the Wii experience a DS level of exponential growth in Japan. The Wii growth has been the opposite of the DS in the sense that it has been absolutely monstrous in the Western market but suffers from relatively lukewarm sales in Japan. In this case, we won't see Western developer support (hypothetically) translate into more Japanese hardware sales. If the Wii undergoes significant growth in Japan, Japanese developers will have the safety net, similar to that of the DS. In this scenario, they can have a game target the Western market with a Japanese market to fall back on through just sheer userbase of the Wii and company brandname in Japan.

I think it's a matter of Nintendo doing the one-two punch for the Wii that they did for the DS with Brain Training and Mario Kart DS. They need that combination that makes a million new customers in the expanded market overnight and a core game that gets the core market (and the associated developers) to jump over. While their expanded audience games have delivered, their core games haven't had the same impact as they did on the DS. I wonder if it is because a number of Wii games play like souped-up Gamecube games with little or no mandatory use of motion controls (so they only appeal to a specific audience) or there isn't enough incentive to move from Mario Kart DS to Mario Kart Wii.

Nintendo learned the hard way that third-parties are fair-weather friends in the end and success comes from their own blood and sacrifice. However, games like Monster Hunter Tri could be the what the core market needs to migrate to the Wii. It might be a matter of making games that can't be replicated on DS or PSP.

so to get to the point, what would be the most likely reason for Square Enix to make LR and SO4 360 exclusive in Japan, if not big a moneyhat of some sort?

pure stupidity? a grudge against Sony?

In a sales previous thread, I remember talking about the Star Ocean 3 incident in which a faulty Sony development library upgrade prevented a significant portion of PS2 owners with a certain model from playing the game. SO3's sales were effectively sabotaged and may have been a factor in the release of a Director's Cut version of the game.

Tri-Ace/Enix blamed Sony and suggested that buyers pursue Sony for a new console since it was a hardware issue. Sony refused (I think both parties were at fault but Sony really shouldn't have put Tri-Ace into this situation without their knowing but Sony couldn't realistically replace every system) and said it was Tri-Ace's fault.

I wonder if this was caused friction between Tri-Ace and Sony which influenced Tri-Ace's decision to support Microsoft's new console. They haven't made any in-house games on any Sony consoles this generation. The Star Ocean remakes were out-sourced To TOSE while Valkyrie Profile DS was in-house. Of course, it could be just a coincidence and I have a conspiracy theory for everything.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Many Japanese publishers are waiting to see the Wii experience a DS level of exponential growth in Japan. The Wii growth has been the opposite of the DS in the sense that it has been absolutely monstrous in the Western market but suffers from relatively lukewarm sales in Japan. In this case, we won't see Western developer support (hypothetically) translate into more Japanese hardware sales. If the Wii undergoes significant growth in Japan, Japanese developers will have the safety net, similar to that of the DS. In this scenario, they can have a game target the Western market with a Japanese market to fall back on through just sheer userbase of the Wii and company brandname in Japan.

I think it's a matter of Nintendo doing the one-two punch for the Wii that they did for the DS with Brain Training and Mario Kart DS. They need that combination that makes a million new customers in the expanded market overnight and a core game that gets the core market (and the associated developers) to jump over. While their expanded audience games have delivered, their core games haven't had the same impact as they did on the DS. I wonder if it is because a number of Wii games play like souped-up Gamecube games with little or no mandatory use of motion controls (so they only appeal to a specific audience) or there isn't enough incentive to move from Mario Kart DS to Mario Kart Wii.

Nintendo learned the hard way that third-parties are fair-weather friends in the end and success comes from their own blood and sacrifice. However, games like Monster Hunter Tri could be the what the core market needs to migrate to the Wii. It might be a matter of making games that can't be replicated on DS or PSP.

I think it's going to take more than Monster Hunter Tri. Dragon Quest X could do it, but it depends on how long they've been working on it. If they just started, we won't see it until 2012.

The new Tales game could help, though. Last one sold 212k and it was a spin-off.

 

[Kilrogg]

I think it's going to take more than Monster Hunter Tri. Dragon Quest X could do it, but it depends on how long they've been working on it. If they just started, we won't see it until 2012.

The new Tales game could help, though. Last one sold 212k and it was a spin-off.

Yeah, I too think it won't be enough. I'm still baffled at Wii Fit's inability to do to the Wii what Nintendogs did to the DS despite its software sales.

What I wonder is why Nintendo hasn't tried to make some sort of New Super Mario Bros. equivalent for the Wii. New iterations of Nintendo's franchises that return to their roots and/or put great emphasis on interface have been selling well on the DS, but Nintendo's doesn't to seem to want to try that on the Wii itself. Well, either that, or the games are actually in development and we don't know about them.

I also wonder why Nintendo hasn't put more effort into Animal Crossing City Folk. The additions were nice, but you don't get the feeling that this new installment does something the DS couldn't do.

Overall, I really wonder if Nintendo is just being very secretive about their future games, or doesn't actively invest that many ressources in software development.

So yeah, the key word here is "wonder".

 

[Pureauthor]

Eh, you're getting it a bit wrong. Orochi Z is Orochi 1+2, neither PS2 nor PSP nor 360 are going to get it because they already got it. This is the 4th system getting the same two games, just repackaged together at 7500Y.

With new playable characters.

Leaving those us who bought the other versions floundering.

Grrrr.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The marginalization of the PS3/360 in Japan is beginning to stink like bullshit. Especially where it concerns PS3, as it's looking like one of the more viable platforms in Japan as of late. They're pulling in very respectable software hauls. You can say they're irrelevant if you want, but the publishers might think differently.

It's not really a big secret that home consoles are dying here. The Wii gave a temporary reprieve, but it still looks as though home consoles are going to be occupying a niche not unlike the Neo Geo's position in North America: an amusing novelty that rich kids or extreme otaku own.

Everyone else is pretty much sold on handheld gaming, as it fits the Japanese lifestyle far, far better.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Yeah, I too think it won't be enough. I'm still baffled at Wii Fit's inability to do to the Wii what Nintendogs did to the DS despite its software sales.

What I wonder is why Nintendo hasn't tried to make some sort of New Super Mario Bros. equivalent for the Wii. New iterations of Nintendo's franchises that return to their roots and/or put great emphasis on interface have been selling well on the DS, but Nintendo's doesn't to seem to want to try that on the Wii itself. Well, either that, or the games are actually in development and we don't know about them.

I also wonder why Nintendo hasn't put more effort into Animal Crossing City Folk. The additions were nice, but you don't get the feeling that this new installment does something the DS couldn't do.

Overall, I really wonder if Nintendo is just being very secretive about their future games, or doesn't actively invest that many ressources in software development.

So yeah, the key word here is "wonder".

Yeah, a new Super Mario Bros 2 on Wii would be awesome.

I suspect they're working on stuff, but weather it's big enough or not I don't know. They need something to kick off with, though.

It's not really a big secret that home consoles are dying here. The Wii gave a temporary reprieve, but it still looks as though home consoles are going to be occupying a niche not unlike the Neo Geo's position in North America: an amusing novelty that rich kids or extreme otaku own.

Everyone else is pretty much sold on handheld gaming, as it fits the Japanese lifestyle far, far better.

That's one thing. I think the next Nintendo console is going to have an extremely intimate relationship between handheld and console. I'm not sure how it'll be done, but they'll probably try to make their next console worth purchasing just because of their handheld.

Or maybe their next handheld can double as a console (like the PSP, but not that shit where it doesn't fill the screen)? A sort of go anywhere, play on anything handheld.

 

[SolidSnakex]

In a sales previous thread, I remember talking about the Star Ocean 3 incident in which a faulty Sony development library upgrade prevented a significant portion of PS2 owners with a certain model from playing the game. SO3's sales were effectively sabotaged and may have been a factor in the release of a Director's Cut version of the game.

Tri-Ace/Enix blamed Sony and suggested that buyers pursue Sony for a new console since it was a hardware issue. Sony refused (I think both parties were at fault but Sony really shouldn't have put Tri-Ace into this situation without their knowing but Sony couldn't realistically replace every system) and said it was Tri-Ace's fault.

I wonder if this was caused friction between Tri-Ace and Sony which influenced Tri-Ace's decision to support Microsoft's new console. They haven't made any in-house games on any Sony consoles this generation. The Star Ocean remakes were out-sourced To TOSE while Valkyrie Profile DS was in-house. Of course, it could be just a coincidence and I have a conspiracy theory for everything.

Doesn't Square own Star Ocean? Yeah, I know that SO is developed by tri-Ace, but if it's Square's series then they're going to have a lot of leverage on their own.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Doesn't Square own Star Ocean? Yeah, I know that SO is developed by tri-Ace, but if it's Square's series then they're going to have a lot of leverage on their own.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the property is jointly held. That said, I really doubt tri-ace would be opposed to an outsourced PS3 port if SE wanted to line one up.

 

[Totobeni]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the property is jointly held. That said, I really doubt tri-ace would be opposed to an outsourced PS3 port if SE wanted to line one up.

© 2009 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. All Rights Reserved. Developed by tri-Ace Inc. SQUARE ENIX and the SQUARE ENIX logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd. STAR OCEAN and THE LAST HOPE are registered trademarks or trademarks of Square Enix Co., Ltd. Microsoft, Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox LIVE, and the Xbox logos are trademarks of the Microsoft group of companies and are used under license from owner. The ESRB rating icon is a registered trademark of the Entertainment Software Association.

from the game page , so star ocean SE's IP

 

[Thunder Monkey]

It's not really a big secret that home consoles are dying here. The Wii gave a temporary reprieve, but it still looks as though home consoles are going to be occupying a niche not unlike the Neo Geo's position in North America: an amusing novelty that rich kids or extreme otaku own.

Everyone else is pretty much sold on handheld gaming, as it fits the Japanese lifestyle far, far better.

I doubt the Wii eclipses the GBA. The PS3 I think has a shot at hitting N64 numbers, but that's iffy at best, and the 360 might end up selling 1.5 million units total.

The console market is definitely on a downward trend. Pretty severely at that.

 

[icecream]

so to get to the point, what would be the most likely reason for Square Enix to make LR and SO4 360 exclusive in Japan, if not big a moneyhat of some sort?

Star Ocean 4 exclusivity would have been an easy decision for S-E:

S-E: so I think it's about time we started on a Star Ocean for this gen
tri-Ace: cool, MS just picked up a huge tab in development costs for an engine we made for the 360. if you guys agree to make the game for the 360, we'll just use that engine and drastically cut the dev costs right there
S-E: free engine? cheap development? sign us up!

 

[Lightning]

Who cares why SO4 is a 360 exclusive, makes no matter now. The game has come and gone, barely had a impact much like all other tri-Ace games, totally doesn't matter. All we are seeing is that only a minority follow franchises to platforms..

What really matters is what comes next after RE5 finishes? Not much from the looks of things.

 

[t3nmilez]

Who cares why SO4 is a 360 exclusive, makes no matter now. The game has come and gone, barely had a impact much like all other tri-Ace games, totally doesn't matter.

Maybe it didn't make an impact if you look at a very broad sense, but I'm sure SE and Tri-Ace are happy that their game had the highest 1st week sales of any other 360 game and will likely be the #1 selling 360 game of all time in Japan for quite some time. There's definitely an impact in the Japanese 360 market.

 

[Lightning]

Maybe it didn't make an impact if you look at a very broad sense, but I'm sure SE and Tri-Ace are happy that their game had the highest 1st week sales of any other 360 game and will likely be the #1 selling 360 game of all time in Japan for quite some time. There's definitely an impact in the Japanese 360 market.

You said it "360 game" which makes the entire factor irrelevant. Since it falls into the "good for a 360 game" crap again but totally fails as a Star Ocean game.

I'm sure we'll all hear the same excuse when FFXIII releases and sells something stupid like 1.2mil "ZOMG it was the best selling PS3 game. S-E will be happy with that" What bullshit. No one cares about that, they want total sales, not best software sales on a platform where software sales are a joke and tri-Ace's biggest franchise to boot.

 

[t3nmilez]

Eh, bragging rights that look good either way. Namco sure got plenty of positive press about Vesperia and they seem pretty happy with how things turned out.

Although, I think that every single post you've written the past few weeks in these threads are for the purpose of downplaying SO's launch. Do you have some obsession with this game failing or something?

 

[neojubei]

You said it "360 game" which makes the entire factor irrelevant. Since it falls into the "good for a 360 game" crap again but totally fails as a Star Ocean game.

I'm sure we'll all hear the same excuse when FFXIII releases and sells something stupid like 1.2mil "ZOMG it was the best selling PS3 game. S-E will be happy with that" What bullshit. No one cares about that, they want total sales, not best software sales on a platform where software sales are a joke and tri-Ace's biggest franchise to boot.

So true. SO4 would have easily sold over 400,000 units if it was multiplatform, but oh well. Maybe it might make around 400,000 worldwide if that.

Maybe it didn't make an impact if you look at a very broad sense, but I'm sure SE and Tri-Ace are happy that their game had the highest 1st week sales of any other 360 game and will likely be the #1 selling 360 game of all time in Japan for quite some time. There's definitely an impact in the Japanese 360 market.

Whatever makes them happy I suppose.

 

[gantz85]

Maybe it didn't make an impact if you look at a very broad sense, but I'm sure SE and Tri-Ace are happy that their game had the highest 1st week sales of any other 360 game and will likely be the #1 selling 360 game of all time in Japan for quite some time. There's definitely an impact in the Japanese 360 market.

What it is, and what could it have been?

I remember the supposedly leaked document that claimed that if SO4 did not meet sales expectations of 1.8m worldwide it would have a PS3 port. I'm purty fucken sure it won't reach that number ever, even with channel stuffing.