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[wazoo]

people are uninformed, most don't know how anything looks or plays, they buy stuff they see while visiting friends or asking around.

Many wii owners do know RE4 is relevant, important and good and RE:UC has the words "resident evil" in its name. It will sell, more so to the casuals that will want to try it with the Zapper.

EXactly, TV advertising and pretty box art are more important for reaching good sales.

 

[edwardslane]

here's what I think.

Capcom (Z&W) just went in the same direction konami(elebits) went when the Wii launched: good software with totally misleading presentation.

If it wasn't for the fact that I visit forums and do my research, I could easily take " Zack and wiki " for some kind of " Tak and lok and the juju challenge" clone. who the fuck would want a clone of licensed shovelware for kids? How can someone figure out that the game is awesome if it's presented like some kind of cartoon for kids 6 to 8 years old?

Zack and wiki as concept was a terrible idea from the very beginning. It's sad to see good software flop but Capcom should have known better.

Umbrella chronicles on the other hand will be a smash hit, I can already feel it. There are nearly 1 million people around the world that bought RE4:Wii edition, they WILL buy RE:UC.

i agree with you 100% it sucks when developers do such a thing. Just shooting themselves in the foot.. you'd think these big companies would have a clue.

 

[Jonnyram]

In all seriousness, what can Square do to reverse the situation now?
It's a problem with the state of the industry more than Square themselves. Like Capcom, Namco, and even Nintendo to some extent, most original IP seems to fall flat on its face in the current climate.

For original IP to work, you have to have a rock solid reputation as a developer/publisher, like Square used to have back at the end of SNES, start of PS.

 

[Phife Dawg]

So EoJ failed to even make the top 30?

Z&W fails like predicted. Ghost Squad actually does a whole lot better than I thought. Maybe RE:UC will sell well after all?

Japanese gamers love TCGs though :/

That's what I was thinking. Plus it has a certain techy wow-factor and considering PS3 userbase must be mostly tech enthusiasts it's a bit puzzling. Maybe the art did scare lot of people away.

WOW FFTA2 didn't do to well on the DS considering the user base. It should have been on the PSP considering how well Crisis core did. DS ruining 3rd party franchises confirmed?

:lol are you the new Tabris?

 

[Ydahs]

Great Ghost Squad sales, really great to see it in the top 10. I didn't expect much from Z&W though it's still quite disappointing. How well was the game advertised in Japan?

 

[Lobster]

Great Ghost Squad sales, really great to see it in the top 10. I didn't expect much from Z&W though it's still quite disappointing. How well was the game advertised in Japan?

It was advertised as well as it was in America. I hope its still in the top 30 next week. If it sold 6k first day, lets hope it sells 6k next week.

 

[zallaaa]

Sold 6k last week I think [The Eye of Judgement].

It looks like it dropped off.

OT opinion of the day. I think that an (impossible) crossover between TEOJ and the Pokeymans would sell gazillions of barrels.

 

[ksamedi]

Ahh, today is Mario Release day right? I hope that one sells a lot of copies.

 

[Mgoblue201]

In all seriousness, what can Square do to reverse the situation now?
It's a problem with the state of the industry more than Square themselves. Like Capcom, Namco, and even Nintendo to some extent, most original IP seems to fall flat on its face in the current climate.

For original IP to work, you have to have a rock solid reputation as a developer/publisher, like Square used to have back at the end of SNES, start of PS.

New IPs can be huge successes. The problem is that they're risks. People like the familiar. They like familiar names, genres, developers (to a smaller extent). They tend to trust people around them before buying new things. Capcom recently had two good successes with Dead Rising and Lost Planet, although those games were fairly familiar in terms of their composition. There is almost always a danger of sinking a product by repeatedly slapping a name on it as long as that series retains the same fundamental gameplay. There is a diminishing aspect to it, and the problem with so many remakes and spinoffs is that they're generally trying to piggy back off of the success of the main series without trying to jump start it or revitilize it or become something bigger and better, and so it continues to sort of erode. There are only so many titles that can be released without moving forward, especially in such a short period of time.

New IPs can succeed depending on how they are handled. Quality sometimes does speak for itself. Banjo Kazooie was called the spiritual successor to Mario 64. But I think it was easily marketed. High quality game, developed by Rare, published by Nintendo, a standard platformer, perhaps the next greatest after Mario, and perhaps most important, it had a wide appeal. Not all new IPs are destined to become smashing successes. Not all ideas are going to be wide reaching. But I think success can be maximized if some steps are taken. The hardest thing is when you're trying to sell a new concept. But again, I think the most important aspect is having a concept that's easy to get. If your concept is kind of heavy handed or complex, then it might not fly with a huge number of people. And there are places for both games.

In Square's case, I'm still trying to figure out whether it's a fundamental problem with their plan. I think the first Kingdom Hearts was the last thing apart from the main Final Fantasy series that really set the videogame world on fire. Perhaps I just don't follow Square closely enough, so this is an honest question: have they done anything lately that's really new and interesting and successful all at the same time?

 

[icecream]

The PS2 had a lot of quality visual novels that never made it to the USA; Air, Higurashi, Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien, Raimuiro Senkitan (wait a minute, this isn't quality), and much much more.

Umm, the PC versions of all of those games outclass the PS2 ports.

And it's important to note Imabiki is not some animu visual novel. That is singlehandedly the largest factor in its success. A real horror type choose-your-own novel will always go much farther than a game aimed at otaku.

 

[Durante]

These MC Numbers are even better than the Famitsu ones, so let me again say that' I'm really happy with the Ar Tonelico 2 sales. Go Gust!

Now NISA come on and localize the game. You know you want to.

 

[gray_fox224]

Go Sega Go!

 

[cw_sasuke]

but which one will win?

:lol

 

[slaughterking]

Taiko Drum Master DS got some pretty good legs. You would think the game breaking bug and backordering would have killed all the buzz about the game, but it's nice to see it's not like that. Cool game.

 

[Frillen]

142k for FFTA2? It sold 100k its first day. That's a pretty big drop for the next 2 days. At least there wasn't a price collapse though.

First day sales and m-create weekly sales, not the same source.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Uhm, quite a few interesting bits. Crisis Core drops out of top30 (it didn't in Famitsu), Tamagotchi 3 dying already (really POOR numbers), Wii Play #25 (fluctuates a lot...), another PS2 to Wii port that does pretty poor (Gintama), Kanji Test 2 really strong (Kanji Test did awesome numbers and practically never entered top30), PS3 to X360 ports bomb (Bladestorm and Gundam Musou), My housekeeping diary dying but Nintendo gives birth to Literature Collection, Pokemon MD2 breaks a million....

I really want to see WEDS sell through, its first day numbers were very poor but it expanded on the weekend...I wonder if its overshipped (like the first one by the way). Another overshipped title is Imabikisou (75k)...and Mario Strikers which I should mention again because its sell through was less than 50% in the latest Famitsu Top30 and it had sold 71k (so there, at least, 71k more copies out there).


On the new releases front, just read YSO predictions, Mario Galaxy on the 350-450k range, Ace Combat 6 on 50-70k and 3rd for FFTA2 or the new Gundam PS2 title. Doesn't look good for Opoona.

 

[LM4sure]

DS and Wii still kickin ass!

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Wow, Ghost Squad did surprisingly well!

 

[flipping_heck]

From other thread:

Girl Terrorist = Zack and Wiki

 

[Phife Dawg]

On the new releases front, just read YSO predictions, Mario Galaxy on the 350-450k range, Ace Combat 6 on 50-70k and 3rd for FFTA2 or the new Gundam PS2 title. Doesn't look good for Opoona.

Does anyone (apart from the devs/publisher) think this will not bomb totally? I think it'll be lucky to break 60k LTD. I'm thinking ~10k for it's opening week.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

New IPs can be huge successes. The problem is that they're risks. People like the familiar. They like familiar names, genres, developers (to a smaller extent). They tend to trust people around them before buying new things. Capcom recently had two good successes with Dead Rising and Lost Planet, although those games were fairly familiar in terms of their composition. There is almost always a danger of sinking a product by repeatedly slapping a name on it as long as that series retains the same fundamental gameplay. There is a diminishing aspect to it, and the problem with so many remakes and spinoffs is that they're generally trying to piggy back off of the success of the main series without trying to jump start it or revitilize it or become something bigger and better, and so it continues to sort of erode. There are only so many titles that can be released without moving forward, especially in such a short period of time.

New IPs can succeed depending on how they are handled. Quality sometimes does speak for itself. Banjo Kazooie was called the spiritual successor to Mario 64. But I think it was easily marketed. High quality game, developed by Rare, published by Nintendo, a standard platformer, perhaps the next greatest after Mario, and perhaps most important, it had a wide appeal. Not all new IPs are destined to become smashing successes. Not all ideas are going to be wide reaching. But I think success can be maximized if some steps are taken. The hardest thing is when you're trying to sell a new concept. But again, I think the most important aspect is having a concept that's easy to get. If your concept is kind of heavy handed or complex, then it might not fly with a huge number of people. And there are places for both games.

In Square's case, I'm still trying to figure out whether it's a fundamental problem with their plan. I think the first Kingdom Hearts was the last thing apart from the main Final Fantasy series that really set the videogame world on fire. Perhaps I just don't follow Square closely enough, so this is an honest question: have they done anything lately that's really new and interesting and successful all at the same time?

Interesting post. While I haven't analyzed it as closely, I can say that I think a lack of effective and broad-based marketing is the reason for a lot of problems in this area...

 

[Stumpokapow]

I really want to see WEDS sell through, its first day numbers were very poor but it expanded on the weekend...I wonder if its overshipped (like the first one by the way).

I'd say it sold poor because it's a complete piece of shit like the last one... last two actually IIRC. Until developers figure out how to make good sports games for the DS, they deserve to shittank in my opinion.

...and Mario Strikers which I should mention again because its sell through was less than 50% in the latest Famitsu Top30 and it had sold 71k (so there, at least, 71k more copies out there).

Nintendo claims 240k shipped to Japan AFAIK based on that shipping list that they put out with their financials there a little while ago. Megalol.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Does anyone (apart from the devs/publisher) think this will not bomb totally? I think it'll be lucky to break 60k LTD. I'm thinking ~10k for it's opening week.

Going from YSO again, most of them predict Opoona around 5-15k...two or three more optimistic predictions at 30-40k, but around 20-30 ones on the mentioned range...

I'd say it sold poor because it's a complete piece of shit like the last one... last two actually IIRC. Until developers figure out how to make good sports games for the DS, they deserve to shittank in my opinion.

Real test comes with PS2/PS3/360 edition...I'm really curious to see where is the 1m WE fanbase that it had on PS2. I wonder if Konami's multiplatform strategy has damaged WE a little...they are probably thinking more in the european market (they should since it moves bigger numbers here) but I don't know if their approach to the japanese market has been good lately.

 

[kizmah]

Did Eye of Judgement debut this week? In what place?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Did Eye of Judgement debut this week? In what place?

Eye of Judgment did Zack and Wiki-area numbers, so it's probably a little bit below the top 30.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Gamers?

Okay. And who's in charge of getting the gamers excited enough about a game that they give the retailer confidence in a hefty order?

 

[kottila]

Eye of Judgment did Zack and Wiki-area numbers, so it's probably a little bit below the top 30.

There was some Famitsu numbers in the last thread. If I remember correctly, EoJ was at ~9 and Z&W at ~11-12k

 

[Vinnk]

Whn I did my "Viink's Village" report last week, there were tons of copies everywhere. It seems they thought this title was going to do a lot better. I would love to know how many copies shipped. It was a major game launch with a lot of floor space devoted to it, and it still didn't crack the top 30. Even Z&W, which had no hype at all, didn't bomb that bad.

 

[botticus]

Okay. And who's in charge of getting the gamers excited enough about a game that they give the retailer confidence in a hefty order?

Even then it has limited effect. The only store that works off preorders is GameStop, so unless Capcom wanted me to go talk to the manager of my local Best Buy to inform them I was interested in Zack & Wiki, those chains order the number of copies the guy in the purchasing department decides on.

But let's be frank... when the employees of GameStop haven't heard of the game I want to preorder a week before it came out (I did help, Capcom!), somebody screwed up.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

From other thread:

Girl Terrorist = Zack and Wiki

hahaha wtf :lol

 

[Dragona Akehi]

In all seriousness, what can Square do to reverse the situation now?

Take notes from the Enix side of the company and stop making "kiddified" outsourced titles. For god's sake, the DS Kingdom Hearts is outsourced while the PSP and Mobile games are in-house. Something is wrong here.

Course, the people in charge of FF (Kitase and Nomura) dislike Nintendo/DS/Wii so that's unlikely to change.

 

[theultimo]

Take notes from the Enix side of the company and stop making "kiddified" outsourced titles. For god's sake, the DS Kingdom Hearts is outsourced while the PSP and Mobile games are in-house. Something is wrong here.

Course, the people in charge of FF (Kitase and Nomura) dislike Nintendo/DS/Wii so that's unlikely to change.

I never understood that. Perhaps actually using your RESOURCES might work better for the bottom-line, no?

 

[Haunted]

Course, the people in charge of FF (Kitase and Nomura) dislike Nintendo/DS/Wii so that's unlikely to change.

 

[Pureauthor]

Take notes from the Enix side of the company and stop making "kiddified" outsourced titles. For god's sake, the DS Kingdom Hearts is outsourced while the PSP and Mobile games are in-house. Something is wrong here.

Dollars to donuts the DS version didn't even exist until comparatively recently - from all signs it's a title slapped together to take advantage of the userbase.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Whn I did my "Viink's Village" report last week, there were tons of copies everywhere. It seems they thought this title was going to do a lot better. I would love to know how many copies shipped. It was a major game launch with a lot of floor space devoted to it, and it still didn't crack the top 30. Even Z&W, which had no hype at all, didn't bomb that bad.

Bu.. bu... GAF told me those numbers were expected.

Thanks for the info. I too thought this would do better.

 

[solid2snake]

SEGA ftw

 

[twinturbo2]

DS dominates, as usual. What else is new? FF Tactics Advance 2 must be really good...

 

[Magicpaint]

Take notes from the Enix side of the company and stop making "kiddified" outsourced titles.

Seriously. It's like every DS game they publish has to be outsourced to some cheap developer.

For a system as big selling as the DS, the Square side support has been less than remarkable. The quantity has been great, but the quality and handling has been spotty, and I think that plays a role as to why their DS sales haven't been too great lately. Even FFIVr still had to be outsourced (though at least Matrix is more proven than say H.a.n.d or Think and Feel inc).

I never understood that. Perhaps actually using your RESOURCES might work better for the bottom-line, no?

Because they've exhausted all of their resources on their PS3/PSP/Mobile titles. The DS is less important, and the developers that are handling the majority of their DS games are fairly low profile.

Dollars to donuts the DS version didn't even exist until comparatively recently - from all signs it's a title slapped together to take advantage of the userbase.

The PSP version has not only been in development for longer (as well as being internally developed), but apparently the DS version is supposed to be out before the PSP version. Leads me to believe only one is a serious project.

 

[Slavik81]

Zak and Wiki: Sent to Die.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Course, the people in charge of FF (Kitase and Nomura) dislike Nintendo/DS/Wii so that's unlikely to change.

And this will cost them dearly. You don't make business decisions based on who you like. Probably as much as we shouldn't make console decisions that way, except the money we're talking and what they are talking are completely different.

 

[donny2112]

And no claiming Zack and Wiki isn't a bomb. That should save us about 200 replies or so.

So the Media-Create threads have gotten so bloated and overgrown that we're trying to actively reduce the number of replies? I thought most people were complaining that it had slowed down too much. :lol

Seaman went from 1 to 21. Has there even been such a drop-off?

Didn't Halo 3 drop from #1 to out of the top 30?

Preordering is helpful for market research. Preordering lets the publisher know people want the game.

Preordering is also giving an interest-free loan. Can't we just sign an internet petition or something?

Spoiler

I also think people are getting tired of a new Final Fantasy brand game coming out every 2 months.

From last week's thread:
GBA Final Fantasy VI Advance 20061203
PSP Final Fantasy 1 20070422
NDS Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings 20070506
PSP Final Fantasy Tactics: The Lion War 20070513
PSP Final Fantasy II 20070610
PS2 Final Fantasy XII International Zodiac 20070819
NDS Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates 20070826
PSP Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII 20070916

 

[Defuser]

Course, the people in charge of FF (Kitase and Nomura) dislike Nintendo/DS/Wii so that's unlikely to change.

IAWW say hi

 

[Pureauthor]

IAWW say hi

If anything, it'll just reinforce the DS hate on their part.

Spoiler

Please be localized.

(Defuser, is GAF crapping out on you every once in a while?)

 

[charlequin]

In all seriousness, what can Square do to reverse the situation now?
It's a problem with the state of the industry more than Square themselves. Like Capcom, Namco, and even Nintendo to some extent, most original IP seems to fall flat on its face in the current climate.

I don't think anything will change in reality, but I think there'd be a road out if Square was interested. They should move to a more agile dev environment instead of the big monolithic teams they have now, and get some smaller teams working solely on IP generation, with no certainty that anything they come up with will even come to fruition. Then take advantage of the DS, where games can be made cheap for a huge userbase, to test out new IPs.

I think they'd also see pretty good returns if they reigned in the FF marketing and only use the brand on games that really meet the standards. I think the market for actual FFs is higher than has historically been met, especially with the long delay before XII (and another awaiting us before XIII) -- I think one a year, using remakes, "serious" spinoffs (games on the order of FFT or FF7CC that show a significant level of effort and polish), or even a handheld series of "real" FF RPGs to fill in between the real games, would be a sustainable pace.

Hypothetically, if they transitioned to a schedule of that, plus revivals of some older, well-liked IP, and maybe two to three new IPs efforts a year... I think it could work out for them.

Or like Segata said upthread: just look at Capcom, and do whatever they do.

 

[cvxfreak]

I expected A2 to be bigger myself. If SE shipped a large amount initially, then I think there's a good chance of a good old price collapse...

 

[Cheesemeister]

I expected A2 to be bigger myself. If SE shipped a large amount initially, then I think there's a good chance of a good old price collapse...

 

[AnimeTheme]

Whn I did my "Viink's Village" report last week, there were tons of copies everywhere. It seems they thought this title was going to do a lot better. I would love to know how many copies shipped. It was a major game launch with a lot of floor space devoted to it, and it still didn't crack the top 30. Even Z&W, which had no hype at all, didn't bomb that bad.

Months ago, Shinobi mentioned 40k initial production shipment.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So, I take it the GAF collective has taken an almighty dump on FFTA2 already then?

I think most people are just continuing ill feeling towards the first.

If you're an FF fan and the games are coming out too fast for you to keep up, you'll just stop caring after a while.

Basically how I feel. Rather than being a "can't-miss" series, it's become "which will I choose to miss".

 

[ethelred]

Seriously. It's like every DS game they publish has to be outsourced to some cheap developer. [...] The quantity has been great, but the quality and handling has been spotty, and I think that plays a role as to why their DS sales haven't been too great lately. [...] Because they've exhausted all of their resources on their PS3/PSP/Mobile titles. The DS is less important, and the developers that are handling the majority of their DS games are fairly low profile.

Maybe they're taking a page out of the Nintendo playbook?

Even FFIVr still had to be outsourced (though at least Matrix is more proven than say H.a.n.d or Think and Feel inc).

I don't put Matrix in the same league. Matrix is a team the company went to for its console level projects -- no one can question the validity or the seriousness of the DQV remake, so if Square turns around and uses that team for their own remakes, that's not a case of, "well, it's the DS; find some low-cost dev," but rather a case of having an awesome go-to team. Companies like Jupiter and h.a.n.d., though...

The PSP version has not only been in development for longer (as well as being internally developed), but apparently the DS version is supposed to be out before the PSP version. Leads me to believe only one is a serious project.

And people scoffed originally when I said that KH PSP would kill KH DS in sales.

 

[enishi]

I expected A2 to be bigger myself. If SE shipped a large amount initially, then I think there's a good chance of a good old price collapse...

I think it is. It starts to sell 2/3 of its initial price here (in Hong Kong). Probably because the retailers can get some cheaper copies from Japan...