LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
We are in the ghetto here.schuelma said:
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Media Create Sales: June 15-21, 2009
- Thread starter donny2112
- Start date
Its funny how the Wii is without question the (non-handheld) market leader but we talk about it in the same way Gamecube was discussed here years back. Holding out hope that the Wii will get some big hardcore title to redeem it in our eyes.
But unlike last time, Nintendo is in a good position now. Profits are higher than ever. Maybe this is all the Wii needs to be. Nintendo has outgrown the need to appeal to us (GAF).
Nintendo won. It just isnt the victory people were hoping for.
20 years from now this will be remembered as the Wii generation. The kids playing it right now have no desire to return to a traditional controller. I tried to get my 10 year old niece to play Little Big Planet (thought she would love it) but she never even got past the menus. She turned the PS3 controller on its side and tried to point at things. I told her that she needed to use the arrow buttons or analog stick and she said "that's dumb". "Can we play Mario Kart now?"
Nintendo really no longer needs us. And if these big titles (MH3, etc) fail to perform, other than Nintendo possibly feeling so loyalty towards its old hardcore base, there is no real reason why they would want or need to court us anymore.
But unlike last time, Nintendo is in a good position now. Profits are higher than ever. Maybe this is all the Wii needs to be. Nintendo has outgrown the need to appeal to us (GAF).
Nintendo won. It just isnt the victory people were hoping for.
20 years from now this will be remembered as the Wii generation. The kids playing it right now have no desire to return to a traditional controller. I tried to get my 10 year old niece to play Little Big Planet (thought she would love it) but she never even got past the menus. She turned the PS3 controller on its side and tried to point at things. I told her that she needed to use the arrow buttons or analog stick and she said "that's dumb". "Can we play Mario Kart now?"
Nintendo really no longer needs us. And if these big titles (MH3, etc) fail to perform, other than Nintendo possibly feeling so loyalty towards its old hardcore base, there is no real reason why they would want or need to court us anymore.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
I think I agree with just about everything you said here, but for the last bit. Nintendo hasn't served everyone until they've served GAF as well, and they won't be entirely satisfied until they've done that as well.Vinnk said:
DarthWaiter
Banned
Vinnk said:
Awesome. Pointer controls should be standard for generations to come. Dual Analog sticks are out there door. Thank goodness!
charlequin said:
Are any of those things important for what a studio wants to do? Right now, the biggest issue has to be scope and graphics. It's how the industry has always worked and Nintendo trying to change that isn't working. Devs are thinking bigger and games are costing more. They simply don't want to deal with Nintendo or the Wii since it just isn't on the same level as the PS3 and 360. The Wii has a big userbase, but it isn't as big as the PSP or the DS. Making games for those systems is cheaper and if you're going to be gimped, then these systems have the userbase and making those games doesn't cost as much.
People give lip service to motion controls, but they really don't mean much in development, especially since most of us don't know how to use them. How many people actually consider good controls as a plus in a game?
Anyway, if I was looking at making a game, the Wii definitely wouldn't be my first choice.
Eteric Rice said:
What if nothing Nintendo said or did would make them care? I think that's where we're at right now.
Vinnk said:
In some way I agree, Vinnk. The Wii's place in this generation will be a topic for discussion for a long time, but I hardly think it will be shrouded in mysticism. For us, we probably won't have a good view of it, but children will probably look fondly upon it. There will still be mixed discussions about how it was "crap" or didn't get any respect.
Nintendo still needs the "core", though. At least in some fashion, I'm just not sure how they need them.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Vinnk said:
Isn't it what they've always done though? One day these gamers will become veterans and basically it's the same history all over again. They're doing nothing different.
Back when Super Mario Bros. came out it was kind of basic with the graphics and all. The NES was different from the standard. Veterans back then used joysticks and keyboards, they looked down on the NES style of gaming, which was a generation behind computers.
That computer generation was important in its own right, but it's interesting to see that because it was already cattering to a rather mature type of game player, it didn't strike quite the cord that usually leaves the long term impact. They kind of picked up gamers when they were almost ready to fall of the cliff of non-gaming.
I guess the fate of our industry is probably our current gamers will phase out, or eventually mature into the new tastes. And in the meantime the new gamers of today will make up the bulk of the industry. And we'll always have new players as they're either born or turn older.
Eteric Rice
Member
Vinnk said:
I don't really buy this. The DS was able to have both worlds, both core and casual. The Wii should be able to have the same.
Erm, the old gamers are still here though, and they buy a LOT of games. The NES came about after a crash of the entire industry. The current industry hasn't crashed yet (though if costs keep going up, they will).
Old and new game types should be able to co-exist even now, even on the Wii.
Eteric Rice
Member
Azelover said:
I meant worldwide, but yeah, I forgot which thread I was in. Sorry. >_<
test_account
XP-39C²
I think that pointer controls can be cool indeed, but i hope that Dual Analog sticks still remains as the standard controller on at least one console in the future, so we get a choice on which controllers we want to useDarthWaiter said:
If pointer controls becomes a standard, at least there are many older consoles and alot of older games that still uses a more tradition controller, so there are still many games that can be played
But i wouldnt mind to play new games with Dual Analog sticks in the future as well though schuelma said:
It was sold out at the first store I went to (Famicom Dojo) but they are very small and only ever had 3 copies. There were still copies (as of 4:30pm) at the larger game store. I didn't see any crowds. Looked pretty normal. However most of the people at the cash register had the same game in their hands (WSR) and that is pretty uncommon. But I think since a lot of families are buying this (as opposed to just gamers) they will be more sales in the evening (when the dads get off of work) or during the weekend (when families go shopping). I don't see this game as being very front loaded.
I will try to check a few more stores today and this weekend.
As for my rant before. I am not sure even I even believe that Nintendo dosen't need us. But it is clear we are not as important as we once were. And also that a shift has taken place. Just look at how everyone is getting in on motion controls now. The old gaurd (us) will eventually be replaced with a new group and they grew up with Wii. Whoever can keep these gamers interested as they grow as players (the kids growing older and the casuals wanting something new) will win the next gen.
Eteric Rice
Member
Vinnk said:
Eh, most of us will probably be playing games for the rest of our lives. I mean lets face it, we were born at the right time (around when gaming started picking up). It's likely that in years to come, we'll be gaming in our 50s and 60s, though what kind of games we'll be playing is a mystery.
I just want the Wii to become more balanced. Right now it has a LOT of bad, casual game (NEEDS MOAR GAMES LIKE BOOMBLOX) and a few good core games. I'd like to see more core games to even that out.
Basically, I think things are waaay to one sided. What are people in Japan saying, Vinnk? Have they given up on the Wii?
Eteric Rice
Member
EDarkness said:
The PSP says otherwise. Not to long ago we all considered it pretty much dead.
Perceptions can be changed (Britney Spears), but you actually have to TRY to change it. Nintendo is just not even trying.
Eteric Rice said:
Nintendo doesn't really have any say in this, though. At least I don't think they do. It's like having Disney change into something completely different. The PSP may have been losing to the DS in sales, but it was never seen as "kiddie", "casual", "last gen", or not for the "core". It had other problems to be sure, but those problems could be worked on. The Wii doesn't have that. Every time I see an interview with a developer it's mostly about how "causal" the Wii is or it's "family friendly". That's something I just don't see changed in this generation. Maybe the next one...maybe.
Eteric Rice
Member
EDarkness said:
Eh, I dunno. It was seen as "dead" by everyone, even developers.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Vinnk said:
LOL, the same exact thing happened with my niece with Lego Batman on my X360
"This is dumb! How do I point at it? Boooo-riiing!".
Eteric Rice said:
Oh yeah. Most of GAF will play until they die (or die while playing) and if/when we have kids we will likely play alongside them.
But already a lot of my friends from high school have all but stopped playing console games. Since it was not their main hobby, just something on the side, they can't afford the cost or time commitment anymore. If they still play at all it is on a handheld or if they have kids, casual Wii games.
As for Japan. I teach at an elementary school right now. 360 and PS3 pretty much don't exist. It is DS, Wii and for the older kids (5th and 6th graders) the PSP(Monster Hunter) But when I go to a gaming shop there are a lot of bitter Otaku.
Wii started with some very good otaku games at first. Fire Emblem, Zelda, etc. Then it had some nice niche games that were ingnored by the mainstream but were loved by the otaku (look at how many No More Heroes cosplayers there are at TGS despite its horrible Japanese sales). But the good titles were too few and far between. People sold their systems (which were snapped up by casuals). Many I talked to are planning to rebuy the console for HM3 but unless there is something to keep them going after that, they will surely resell it again. 360 had the same problem.
Hero of Legend
Member
Where are the first day numbers for WSR and other games alongside it?
Eteric Rice
Member
EDarkness said:
Well I can say the same thing about the Wii. For being a kiddy system, it still gets horror/more mature games.
Perception can be changed, it's just really hard. Companies in other industries do it all the time, but it usually takes a big marketing push and a lot of effort to do.
Eteric Rice said:
It's getting games, sure...but no big named games. Not yet anyway. When I start seeing that, even in Japan, then I'll agree.
Also, not saying that perception can't be changed, but I doubt it'll happen to the Wii. Too many people are entrenched at this point.
thestopsign
Member
Hero of Legend said:
For EST, they normally come out around 6am. I don't know where you live, so I can't really say, but 6-7 more hours is about right.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Haha. I don't even know if the DS really qualifies. I'm sure someone with a list will disagree.schuelma said:
I think you touched a crucial point, and some of the people who quoted you expanded it to what is my thought.Vinnk said:
We grew up.
And most gamers of our age (I'm 31) who look back at their childhood can fondly remember how some of their friends couldn't understand how to manage to move with that crappy NES joypad, because in their eyes a PC joystick was much more comfortable to use. In all these years Nintendo may have done wrong choices, but they always tried to expand their idea of videogaming because they felt it was right to do it that way. And it was wrong for some of us to think they would grow in the same way we did or even that they would always be the same. I can clearly remember some friends comments when they saw the first Mario 64 pics: "What? Polygons? What is this shit? It doesn't even look like Mario! Mario has always been 2D!".
Sony did a perfect choice with the first PSX. Their machine was perfectly appealing for most people who came from the SNES era, infact almost every SNES owner moved to PSX like it was pretty natural, embracing their philosophy. Because their growth was going exactly in that same direction.
Nintendo didn't want to change, or "evolve", like Sony had suggested. The Nintendo feeling was quite different, it was also different from the Sega feeling, who did IMHO what Sony did but too early for the market.
And when they thought it was the right time, they did it again, they twisted the market. They even announced it with DS, they would have changed it. We can all remember clearly "Lol PSP will smash it, Nintendo will go 3rd party confirmed".
And we all know what happened.
Then with the Wii most people felt disoriented. Because it really seemed an hazardous project, yet it succeeded. But something for someone didn't feel right. Because they won in an unexpected way. We didn't want them to win this way, we have to admit, me too at first. Then I realized I should have imagined it.
We're not Nintendo's future, we're old. Kids are their future, and they totally won them with a flop of cards unexpected for people with minds so much crystallized.
I'm sorry because I can't fully explain the concept since english is not my language and it would be probably misunderstood (probably this post will be misunderstood too, but whatever...), but children minds are much more open than ours, yet much more simple. So the simplicity of the Wiimote is the winning point. How much more complicate must feel for them to use a D-Pad or Analog Pad (which is actually an abstract D-Pad) when compared to a simple point and click?
That's it, they won. And we didn't notice because we were looking at us. Nintendo was looking somewhere else... in the right direction.
/bow
Hero of Legend
Member
If anything, Nintendo's Fall Media Summit (I think that's the official name) is Wii hardcore heaven. That's where Monster Hunter 3, WiiWare, and Samurai Warriors 3 was unveiled. Same with Tales of Graces' debut trailer, but we didn't see it for ourselves until two months later with the release of Tales of Hearts.
schuelma said:
PSP has been doing alright. It's flow of games has been pretty steady recently. Even have a new Metal Gear on the way. Wii has some stuff coming, but some of it is off the wall, some of it we don't recognize, and way in the future it'll get another huge game (Dragon Quest X). I agree, the DS is getting crazy amounts of stuff, but the PSP hasn't been doing too shabby.
EDarkness said:
Yeah, the PSP is doing alright. I think the Wii could do ok for the rest of 2009 if all the games announced actually make it out. MH Tri, FF:CC:CB, Samurai Warriors 3, Tales of Graces, RE: DC. That's by far the best 5-6 month stretch the Wii will have had (again, if they all come out in 2009).
D.Lo
Member
I think 'traditional' controllers (I used the inverted commas since exactly how traditional is a two generation old basic design - where does the SNES controller fit if the 360 controller is 'traditional'?) will go the way of the arcade stick.
Arcade sticks were basically the standard before the NES. You could still buy an arcade controller for the NES if you wanted a more 'old school' control method, but newer style games were usually harder to control on it then on the NES controller - I always found this with Super Mario Bros for example.
As the NES controller branch developed in a way arcade controllers couldn't replicate very well (primarily into the SNES controller, with the addition of shoulder buttons which were great for, say, rolling your ship in Starfox), arcade sticks became specialist controllers. Some new, big games worked better with a stick (Street Fighter 2), but the pad did pretty well (note how many people still love the Saturn pad for fighters). Newer controllers started to ignore the 'stick audience' by not being as good for that kind of game (PSX, N64 controllers were not as good as SNES of MD controllers for 2D fighters) with the assumption that fighting game fans can just buy a stick if they want anyway.
Finally, sticks developed into more and more hardcore peripherals, and fans spend more and more money on higher quality sticks these days, genuine Sanwa arcade parts etc.
The remote is the new NES controller, it is the future, and Sony and Microsoft showed they now know this at E3. The 360 controller is, at best, this generation's eqivalent of the Saturn pad - an improved version of the last generation of controller. Sony and Microsoft's motion controlers are the equivalent of the 'Atari 2600 Jr pad' (the pad that had a screw-in joystick on the d-pad to hedge their bets between the old and the new), or the original PSX Dual Shock (Which had Nintendo's N64 innovations bolted on to their existing design).
EDIT: Sorry, not particularly Japanese a discussion, but on the topic as brought up by Viink.
Arcade sticks were basically the standard before the NES. You could still buy an arcade controller for the NES if you wanted a more 'old school' control method, but newer style games were usually harder to control on it then on the NES controller - I always found this with Super Mario Bros for example.
As the NES controller branch developed in a way arcade controllers couldn't replicate very well (primarily into the SNES controller, with the addition of shoulder buttons which were great for, say, rolling your ship in Starfox), arcade sticks became specialist controllers. Some new, big games worked better with a stick (Street Fighter 2), but the pad did pretty well (note how many people still love the Saturn pad for fighters). Newer controllers started to ignore the 'stick audience' by not being as good for that kind of game (PSX, N64 controllers were not as good as SNES of MD controllers for 2D fighters) with the assumption that fighting game fans can just buy a stick if they want anyway.
Finally, sticks developed into more and more hardcore peripherals, and fans spend more and more money on higher quality sticks these days, genuine Sanwa arcade parts etc.
The remote is the new NES controller, it is the future, and Sony and Microsoft showed they now know this at E3. The 360 controller is, at best, this generation's eqivalent of the Saturn pad - an improved version of the last generation of controller. Sony and Microsoft's motion controlers are the equivalent of the 'Atari 2600 Jr pad' (the pad that had a screw-in joystick on the d-pad to hedge their bets between the old and the new), or the original PSX Dual Shock (Which had Nintendo's N64 innovations bolted on to their existing design).
EDIT: Sorry, not particularly Japanese a discussion, but on the topic as brought up by Viink.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
d[-_-]b said:
The 'Wii' games are always slow burners. I think The original Wii Sports did comparable, and then went on to sell multi-millions.
jeremy1456
Junior Member
I kind of think the Wii has been saved from bad sales - WSR should hold it up to 'mediocre' for a few months at least.
Does PS3 have any big releases in the near future, or is it doomed to sub 10k weeks?
Does PS3 have any big releases in the near future, or is it doomed to sub 10k weeks?
Hero of Legend
Member
So is the total shipment 375,000?
Just the top of my head, the addition would be 150,000 x 2 = 300,000 (80%), which is 4/5, then split 300,000 in 1/4 = 75,000, add that extra 1/5 to the previous total, you get 375,000.
Just the top of my head, the addition would be 150,000 x 2 = 300,000 (80%), which is 4/5, then split 300,000 in 1/4 = 75,000, add that extra 1/5 to the previous total, you get 375,000.