ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I've subscribed to the thread tentatively, don't hesitate to contact me if somebody starts causing trouble.
Mental Health |OT| Depression & Co.
- Thread starter Bagels
- Start date
- Status
My point was going to be that ever since i've been depressed, i haven't been able to concentrate even on things i like, and trying out new stuff is nearly impossible (not a big change to before, always been slow to warm to new things).
Stopped writing because i realized it was so damn late i should go sleep. I did mention something about fucked up sleep rhytms earlier.
Had something else to say too but forgotten it now.
As for the suggestions... A hobby would be a good idea (nothing overly physical though). Unfortunately i can't afford that (and no, i won't borrow money). No money, no job. Should get a job first (lack of money has never motivated me unfortunately). And job would certainly increase my quality of life. Well. Assuming i'd like it, or at least be okay with it.
Volunteering is out of question. There is no local community. I want to get away from here (the area were i live, some might say it is a nice place, me i hate it for it is a reminder of too many unpleasant things) so even if there were, i wouldn't take part in it.
Problem with pick-up lines is that i'm far too serious person to ever try something like that. Besides, i'd be far too concerned about insulting others. And where i'd do this? I don't go to bars/pubs/etc. as i don't use alcohol at all (and nothing makes me, so don't suggest i could try that as being outside my comfort zone). And... do they really call that "social games"?
Thanks! The mods have always been great when we've had problems (which is admittedly not that often).
I was going to mention a small "joke" in the OP. I needed stock images for my crappy banners, so I did an image search for "depression pictures." I found one of some guy looking very forlorn, and it was part of an online art gallery. It took me longer than it should have to realize that these were pictures of the Great Depression (hence the Thomas Hart Benton painting, which I just really like, but doesn't have much to do with mental health). Fortunately (?), it was also just a depressing time, so the images work for both (sad migrant woman is one of the most famous images symbolizing the Great Depression, but dammit if it isn't a great image of someone just looking really bummed).
Ah, my pessimistic self was right again. I had to wait 2 months for an appointment for a therapist that I made after I finally had the courage to call and make one. Every time I felt bad during this 2 months I calmed myself and said it would get better once I'm in therapy again. Now some assistant calls me 2 weeks before the appointment and says the doc has quit or is going out of business or something. 2 months wasted. Typical.
dutchguyjack
Member
Then get a job
(I realize this can be difficult and appreciate it if you're unable to, but even a bad job is better than none at all). In regards to social games, they're called 'social games' because they are played and designed around a social setting. The one I mentioned is the blow out game, but is just one of many you could play. The games can be played anywhere, from bars to clubs to streets during the day time. Alcohol doesn't need to be involved at all, and I'd never suggest to anyone to try it, especially when they're not feeling good.
In regards to hobbies, aren't there any taster sessions you could try for free? The idea isn't to add another routine to your life, but to try out a bunch of things you've never done before, change up your life a little.
Hey guys, I've been thinking about posting in the old thread for the longest time, and I finally reached a point where I really need someone to listen to.
A little about myself, I'm in my early 30s, and I've just gotten a Ph.D. degree. I'm looking for work, and I basically spend all my time at home nowadays. I've always been socially awkward, I don't have many people I can truly talk to. I've spent all my entire life up to this point at school, and I've watched my contemporaries graduate, get a job, start a family, buy a house etc, while I've stayed on in school and these things remain firmly out of my reach. My life is very dry, and in order to make myself feel less lonely, I buy lots of crap that I don't really need, sort of like eating lots of comfort food in times of stress. Due to this endless cycle of graduate school, consumerism and loneliness, I've always oscillated between various states of depression. In the past I've had months where I just could not muster enough courage to do anything.
Despite that the last three years have been pretty good to me, there was a sudden influx of juniors to our research group, and me being the most senior, somehow I ended up being someone that most of them looked up to. It gave me confidence, and my own research went smoothly and I graduated without any problems or depressive thoughts. However things changed recently. I felt I hit it off pretty well with one of my juniors, and decided to express interest, confidently thinking that it was mutual. However she told me that she needed to think about it. What exactly she needed to contemplate, I have no idea, but everyday while I wait, I feel that my nuts are on a chopping block, and everyday my confidence shrinks. Since I no longer get to meet her daily in school, I've tried meeting her for lunches, but she's flat out expressed that she doesn't like to feel pressured.
Between this and the sudden realization that the job market doesn't want or need Ph.D. gradautes, things are starting to look grayer by the day, and I'm having a hard time carrying on.
Thanks for listening.
edit: Damn I just realized that it felt good getting all that off my chest.
A little about myself, I'm in my early 30s, and I've just gotten a Ph.D. degree. I'm looking for work, and I basically spend all my time at home nowadays. I've always been socially awkward, I don't have many people I can truly talk to. I've spent all my entire life up to this point at school, and I've watched my contemporaries graduate, get a job, start a family, buy a house etc, while I've stayed on in school and these things remain firmly out of my reach. My life is very dry, and in order to make myself feel less lonely, I buy lots of crap that I don't really need, sort of like eating lots of comfort food in times of stress. Due to this endless cycle of graduate school, consumerism and loneliness, I've always oscillated between various states of depression. In the past I've had months where I just could not muster enough courage to do anything.
Despite that the last three years have been pretty good to me, there was a sudden influx of juniors to our research group, and me being the most senior, somehow I ended up being someone that most of them looked up to. It gave me confidence, and my own research went smoothly and I graduated without any problems or depressive thoughts. However things changed recently. I felt I hit it off pretty well with one of my juniors, and decided to express interest, confidently thinking that it was mutual. However she told me that she needed to think about it. What exactly she needed to contemplate, I have no idea, but everyday while I wait, I feel that my nuts are on a chopping block, and everyday my confidence shrinks. Since I no longer get to meet her daily in school, I've tried meeting her for lunches, but she's flat out expressed that she doesn't like to feel pressured.
Between this and the sudden realization that the job market doesn't want or need Ph.D. gradautes, things are starting to look grayer by the day, and I'm having a hard time carrying on.
Thanks for listening.
edit: Damn I just realized that it felt good getting all that off my chest.
I'll make the following points to give you food for thought:
1) Be careful about making assumptions about the people that read this thread.
2) Underlying principle of medical care is that people have a choice over what treatment they do or do not receive.
3) People should feel free and safe to be able to make the medical choices they want. They shouldn't feel pressured. They should feel respected.
4) If you treat people like children, they may well behave like children, treat them like victims they may well behave like victims. Treat them like adults they may well behave like adults.
5) You can't not have an agenda. Not providing information is in itself an agenda.
6) This thread is not titled Severe Depressive Disorder, it's titled Mental Health. So the audience targeted I would say is wider.
7) If someone has mild depression, meds & professional therapy may not be an option for them. However they fall under this thread since it is titled a catch all Mental Health Official Topic. Alternative options are highly relevent to them.
8) You can't just compare benefits of alternatives(be it hypnotherapy, acupuncture, some kind of herb or whatever it is) with benefits of official medicine. Meds have risks and side effects, alternatives may or may not have risks and side effects, even if the benefits are less proven. You'd have to look at the specific alternative to decide it's risks/benefits and what to say about it.
9) Professional help can have a delay, sometimes people wait a month or two for professional therapy. Alternative actions can be started the same day.
10) Alternatives can be in addition to professional help, they don't have to be done instead of it. Alternatives can also be done if you have to wait for professional help.
11) Saying people aim for meds & therapy route is a dispowering message. The best option is for people to do everything they possibly can to counter their mental health problems, with seeking professional help the recommended step. A person that does yoga and takes meds & therapy has more chance of success than someone that just takes meds & therapy. Add a healthy diet it increases again and so on.
12) If, for example someone was the victim of some kind of abuse they don't necessarily need to get their thyroid checked. They may well know what's wrong. If someones relationship broke down, or someone had someone close pass away same thing. Patronising people and telling them they all have to do the same thing is counterproductive. Some people may be completely lost, but others may have some good idea of where they stand.
13) Mental Health should apply to people that have a normally functioning brain. This thread should apply to people that are mentally healthy, since it can show that they can take responsibility and take steps to protect their mental health. Just like how exercise lowers your risk of developing physical diseases, it also lowers your risk of mental diseases. Sending the message that you be proactive and take preventative measures fits within the remit Mental Health |OT|. This also would be useful in reducing the "stigma" of mental illness as the discussion of these issues should be normalised.
14) If a faith based person clicks on this thread a faith based helpline is relevent to them Excluding that is excluding them, this thread should be inclusive.
15) Mild problems can develop into severe problems so targeting people with mild issues is actually highly relevent to the thread.
There's probably some more but that's enough of a brain dump for you to chew over.
Writing your problems does help in releasing them, sharing them with others helps more. Another thing you can do is write it all down by hand, your brain can recognise its own handwriting so that will give the release effect more power too.
youngwerther
Banned
My name is sincere, that predicament has haunted my life!
Bagels said:
I'm just not extroverted and I don't know how to put myself out there.
Also, I'm really eccentric. And weird. And sensitive. It's all bad news.
I was uprooted from my home and now live where I know no one.
I want a girlfriend more than anything.
Thanks for the frank reply, I guess I really just needed to hear that from someone other than the voice in my head.
Thanks, heidern. I always enjoy your thoughtful replies.
You brought up a lot of points that I've been mulling over and posting about here. I've been told more than once that I "think too much." I think most people don't think nearly enough, so I don't think that's so bad, but it will take me a while to figure out exactly how to reconcile my thoughts on exactly what info needs to go into the OP. Of course, anything is fair game for discussion in the thread. I just don't want the OP to say "homeopathy is great," "homeopathy has zero basis in science - it's just water" (my actual opinion, and the current scientific consensus - which is not to say that that's the final answer!), or "discussion of homeopathy is not welcome." I don't know what, if anything, should be said. I'll keep working on it.
The point about expanding the focus from mental illness to mental health is a current goal - thanks for mentioning it.
I do disagree that alternative therapies cannot be compared with traditional therapies. St Johns Wort has its own risks and benefits, just like any other medicine. If you take SJW and an AD, you can get serotonin syndrome - how many medicines that we use today are ultimately derived from natural products? It's dangerous to think that "alternative" is equivalent to risk free, or is automatically in a completely different class of things than traditional therapies. Acupuncture has risks, Zoloft has risks, chiropractic adjustment has risks. Even completely talk-based therapies have risks, if only in losing your time and money, and accepting a non-effective treatment instead of one that works.
I've actually witnessed first hand how people are harmed by treating over the counter or natural products as distinct from prescription medications, many times. I've seen permanent nerve damage from chiropractic treatment, people effectively poisoned by a combination of a natural remedy (not mentioned to the physician) and a prescription medication, or people who have delayed treatment for eminently treatable things in favor of quack treatments. It's very frustrating - you can drink enough water and kill yourself - nothing you do to your body or mind is without consequence.
Overall, if something works, there should be some way to verify it. If hypnotherapy works, show me the science, show me the trials. I cannot see how something like acupuncture can work, but in a way that is not amenable to scientific study, as is sometimes claimed.
I do hope people feel like they are treated as intelligent, fully-formed adults in here. I'll argue for things that I think are right, like I have in this post, but I hope people always feel respected and listened to. I really appreciate you taking the time to post - it really did give me a lot to think about.
You brought up a lot of points that I've been mulling over and posting about here. I've been told more than once that I "think too much." I think most people don't think nearly enough, so I don't think that's so bad, but it will take me a while to figure out exactly how to reconcile my thoughts on exactly what info needs to go into the OP. Of course, anything is fair game for discussion in the thread. I just don't want the OP to say "homeopathy is great," "homeopathy has zero basis in science - it's just water" (my actual opinion, and the current scientific consensus - which is not to say that that's the final answer!), or "discussion of homeopathy is not welcome." I don't know what, if anything, should be said. I'll keep working on it.
The point about expanding the focus from mental illness to mental health is a current goal - thanks for mentioning it.
I do disagree that alternative therapies cannot be compared with traditional therapies. St Johns Wort has its own risks and benefits, just like any other medicine. If you take SJW and an AD, you can get serotonin syndrome - how many medicines that we use today are ultimately derived from natural products? It's dangerous to think that "alternative" is equivalent to risk free, or is automatically in a completely different class of things than traditional therapies. Acupuncture has risks, Zoloft has risks, chiropractic adjustment has risks. Even completely talk-based therapies have risks, if only in losing your time and money, and accepting a non-effective treatment instead of one that works.
I've actually witnessed first hand how people are harmed by treating over the counter or natural products as distinct from prescription medications, many times. I've seen permanent nerve damage from chiropractic treatment, people effectively poisoned by a combination of a natural remedy (not mentioned to the physician) and a prescription medication, or people who have delayed treatment for eminently treatable things in favor of quack treatments. It's very frustrating - you can drink enough water and kill yourself - nothing you do to your body or mind is without consequence.
Overall, if something works, there should be some way to verify it. If hypnotherapy works, show me the science, show me the trials. I cannot see how something like acupuncture can work, but in a way that is not amenable to scientific study, as is sometimes claimed.
I do hope people feel like they are treated as intelligent, fully-formed adults in here. I'll argue for things that I think are right, like I have in this post, but I hope people always feel respected and listened to. I really appreciate you taking the time to post - it really did give me a lot to think about.
NeOak
Member
The One Who Knocks
Member
I had subscribed to the previous thread should the need arise to make use of it and, while I did passingly read a page or two, admittedly I rarely followed the thread with a significant interest. While I suspect the same will hold through for this thread, I (primarily) just wish to thank all of those who contributed to the original post as it is certainly a comprehensive resource (although I certainly agree with your suggestion that due to the chosen title a segment of the original post pertaining to the maintenance of one's mental health would be beneficial; unfortunately I don't have much resources, or knowledge, on what would be included so apologies for the lack of help I'm providing in this aspect).
As for my own situation (I likely would not have posted if it was merely the 'depression' thread so if the idea was to attract more viewers/contributers it has worked, to some extent, for me at least so it was [I would think] a good decision), I've been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome (I can vaguely recall a mention that this specific is being removed from the DSM-V and being replaced with a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder) and I am not currently on any medication (thankfully but observing my results on certain standardised tests [such as the one referred to following this] perhaps this is logically a mistake on the Autism Specialist that diagnosed me's part). While perhaps I have occasional bouts of depression (my most recent taking of the Beck Youth Inventory resulting in lower than average in "Self Concept Inventory", moderately elevated "Anxiety Inventory", "Depressive Inventory" and "Disruptive Behaviour Inventory" and extremely elevated in "Anger Inventory") it fortunately has not had a drastic effect on me in recent times.
My secondary reason for posting was to make a query if anybody has any advice with regard to trying to adapt to social situations involving those I am unfamiliar with. While I know the 'technical' aspects and understand the 'theory', putting it into practice is something I am generally quite poor at (particularly when it comes to the utilisation of tones and colloquialisms and have been referred to on multiple occasions as a pedant). In addition, I am wondering whether or not such a diagnosis would be necessary to include in job applications. While it seems like an inherently bad idea to include a mention of it since it may be seen as a significant negative I am unsure if it would be something that would be advised.
One more thing that I actually had been meaning to ask in the previous thread but forgot to do so, can anybody 'describe' what their experience has been with paranoia? There are moments when I cannot help but feel as if something is referring to me (although I can be quite self-centred so maybe it's just that) or as if I am being watched (which only occurs while I am at home with my parents and I feel this was perhaps related to my parents being extremely observant, sly and then gossiping about me behind my back during my early childhood so maybe it's not relevant). In hindsight, these moments sound insane and completely irrational but during the specific moment it is very hard for me to convince myself that it actually is ridiculous (there is a dissonance, I guess, in that even in these moments I am aware the idea is ridiculous but I cannot prevent myself from feeling such a way). I mean, looking at the pathology of paranoia I find the various aspects ridiculous from a logical standpoint but if this resembles anybody else's experience with any form of mild paranoia I will certainly try to address this more stringently. EDIT: Also, it's worth noting that I don't believe I'm suffering from any form of paranoia that would 'require'/result in a diagnosis of it but I am curious if this is how it presents to others with much greater severity as if it is than they certainly have my sympathy.
EDIT: And also, as I've noted, I likely shall not be participating within this thread as consistently as I may participate in others as the nuance that may be required to assist others would almost certainly allude me so apologies if somebody responds and I do not reply. A final thanks to everybody that frequently contributes (and has contributed) to this and the previous thread.
As for my own situation (I likely would not have posted if it was merely the 'depression' thread so if the idea was to attract more viewers/contributers it has worked, to some extent, for me at least so it was [I would think] a good decision), I've been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome (I can vaguely recall a mention that this specific is being removed from the DSM-V and being replaced with a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder) and I am not currently on any medication (thankfully but observing my results on certain standardised tests [such as the one referred to following this] perhaps this is logically a mistake on the Autism Specialist that diagnosed me's part). While perhaps I have occasional bouts of depression (my most recent taking of the Beck Youth Inventory resulting in lower than average in "Self Concept Inventory", moderately elevated "Anxiety Inventory", "Depressive Inventory" and "Disruptive Behaviour Inventory" and extremely elevated in "Anger Inventory") it fortunately has not had a drastic effect on me in recent times.
My secondary reason for posting was to make a query if anybody has any advice with regard to trying to adapt to social situations involving those I am unfamiliar with. While I know the 'technical' aspects and understand the 'theory', putting it into practice is something I am generally quite poor at (particularly when it comes to the utilisation of tones and colloquialisms and have been referred to on multiple occasions as a pedant). In addition, I am wondering whether or not such a diagnosis would be necessary to include in job applications. While it seems like an inherently bad idea to include a mention of it since it may be seen as a significant negative I am unsure if it would be something that would be advised.
One more thing that I actually had been meaning to ask in the previous thread but forgot to do so, can anybody 'describe' what their experience has been with paranoia? There are moments when I cannot help but feel as if something is referring to me (although I can be quite self-centred so maybe it's just that) or as if I am being watched (which only occurs while I am at home with my parents and I feel this was perhaps related to my parents being extremely observant, sly and then gossiping about me behind my back during my early childhood so maybe it's not relevant). In hindsight, these moments sound insane and completely irrational but during the specific moment it is very hard for me to convince myself that it actually is ridiculous (there is a dissonance, I guess, in that even in these moments I am aware the idea is ridiculous but I cannot prevent myself from feeling such a way). I mean, looking at the pathology of paranoia I find the various aspects ridiculous from a logical standpoint but if this resembles anybody else's experience with any form of mild paranoia I will certainly try to address this more stringently. EDIT: Also, it's worth noting that I don't believe I'm suffering from any form of paranoia that would 'require'/result in a diagnosis of it but I am curious if this is how it presents to others with much greater severity as if it is than they certainly have my sympathy.
EDIT: And also, as I've noted, I likely shall not be participating within this thread as consistently as I may participate in others as the nuance that may be required to assist others would almost certainly allude me so apologies if somebody responds and I do not reply. A final thanks to everybody that frequently contributes (and has contributed) to this and the previous thread.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Bagels laid out most of what I was going to respond with but I'll add some of my own:
Drug therapy has a greater efficacy in heavily depressed people not those who suffer to mild to low or depression due to loss, abuse or a myriad of many other conditions.
Conventional talk therapy, CBT and other forms are very effective for moderate depression and other mental health problems. I think this is where we are having a mixed communication. Bagels and I are not saying that everyone should focus on just drug therapy, however it is important to be evaluated by a professional first. There are many other forms of therapy too, so don't just clump "therapy" into a singular category.
Acupuncture and many "alternative medicine" have not been shown to have any efficacy higher than placebo. Same with many supplements, however like Bagels have said, it is on a case by case basis and while some have been known to have some effect it is better to have it evaluated by a professional first. Those things are not intended to be as a tool for self-diagnosis or self-medication.
Mental health professionals do see patients that are not clinically depressed but are in mourning, victims of domestic, sexual and other forms of abuse and other non medical forms of mental health issues such as phobias etc. Many of these clinics have walk-in and telephone hotlines, so that "delay" is not necessary. A person can also pm and chat with many of us online for help and support (see the topic post).
Encouraging healthy eating and exercise habits is also important and does not invalidate what Bagels and I have said. However, those habits are helpful in combination with a successful diagnosis by a professional. Again, you do not need to have some form of medical reason for depression, anxiety or other forms of mental illness to talk with a professional. Many mental health clinics offer group classes and programs focused on healthy habits. Feel free to post routines, exercise tips, yoga lessons and many other forms of exercise and meditation and diet tips. Those are very much welcome but preface it by showing it is not intended to be a "cure all" or to diagnose but more of healthy habits. For example, telling someone who is suffering from an emotional breakdown to "get up and exercise" or "just change or habits" or "take this root extract" or whatever isn't very constructive.
The "mental health" title is a catch all term intended to break from stigma of mental illnesses and we have been pretty inclusive to those who post here. We don't belittle or try to be judgmental. However, the majority of the posters here do suffer from an "illness" so to speak and most of the time it's very supportive, open and a safe place to vent and let out problems and worries. We can have a section of the OT on books, blogs resources for establishing healthy mental health habits in "healthy" people.
The question of mental illness and normalcy is something that does interest me. I have taken several anthropology courses relating to this (well, medicine and culture). There is no reason why we should stay away from that topic. It's a very talked about topic in anthropology and psychology because of the diversity of human culture. It's really interesting to read about some cultures that do not share the same rigid definitions of mental well being, a problem with the DSM-IV and V and how we diagnose and define those cultural variances.
To have this topic as open as possible, I do think that it should shy away a little from faith based resources. We have to be as open and respectful to everyone. I do see the importance that people place on religion and faith for their mental health, but again it comes to that lots of religious resources may not have the same training or resources as do mental health clinics and professionals. I personally see it as problematic and we don't want this thread to be a science vs religion derailment.
SniperHunter
Banned
did anyone like my post or what? I hope it helps someone out in the future.
So I have that test of the Mechanical engineering program in May. Family around barely acknowledge me as a living human being in the house. My sisters are doing their thing; have a job furthering their careers. My parents barely want to have a simple talk about whatever is on tv like sports... getting a conversation going in this house is like pulling teeth and it is exhausting. My mom gives me the most unhinged phone today as if I was suppose to know that she sent me an email with agencies, most I have already seen and haven't gotten any offers yet. She ends the conversation with a very aggressively toned "bye", but before that she gave me the impression that she had more to say. I had only just came from the gym and I put my phone on airplane mode to save battery life so I didn't see her mail come through. My mom had this weird sense one moment she is talking at me, next she wants to know calmly how I am feeling... such extremes in tone and conversation with her it is just draining. She was really supportive and calm when I went to the introduction meeting for the program... hard to know people don't talk to me and that was almost two days ago.
These sites ughh.... I don't remember the day I left my jobs come on. The company is not even in business anymore.
The funny thing is that when my mom called the email had just come through on my phone.
These sites ughh.... I don't remember the day I left my jobs come on. The company is not even in business anymore.
The funny thing is that when my mom called the email had just come through on my phone.
Which post, the one where you talked about eating meats and running on a bike. Reading your post made me go to the gym at 6 in the morning so thanks man.
It seems like the only solution. No matter what I do I will never achieve anything that's for sure. I cannot even look at myself in the mirror anymore
dutchguyjack
Member
That's a delusional statement. If you put your mind to it, you can achieve almost anything you want. You just need to snap out of it and stop being so negative about everything. For a starters, join some martial arts or dancing classes (and every day that you don't have a class, go outside for an hour. Jog for as much of that as possible, and walk the rest of the time!) - they'll put you in a social environment and they'll help you lose weight. Reduce the amount of calories you take per day to about 2000, and reduce the carb intake. That is, no white bread, white rice, white pasta or potatoes (at all!). Substitute those for wholewheat bread, brown rice, wholewheat pasta and sweet potatoes.
Reduce your intake of meat, and stop eating red meats (or at least reduce them to once or twice per week). Stick to chicken, turkey and fish. Cook them in the oven or on the grill, no butter, just spices. Eat salad every day, and increase your intake of fruits and vegetables.
No cookies, no cake, no soda. Stick to fruit juice (not from concentrate!), water and one glass of skimmed milk every day. If you eat cereal, only buy unsweetened cereal.
If you drink coffee or tea, don't drink it with sugar.
I'm not going to accept a "I can't achieve anything" unless you did your very best at everything you could achieve and nothing changed. Weigh yourself every month, keep track of your progress.
Also, if you need to go anywhere within walking distance (that is, takes less than 30 minutes to walk there), walk! Don't take the car.
dutchguyjack
Member
Being eccentric and weird doesn't stop you from getting a girlfriend. In fact, living in an environment where you know no-one is an excellent position to meet new people. Being introverted doesn't stop you from meeting new people either. Like I've said before, you need to put yourself in social settings and actually meet people.
Also, don't be afraid to 'offend' girls. If you want to say one thing but change it to something else in the hopes that she'll like you for it, stop yourself and revert to saying the thing you were going to say in the first place. Don't be the 'nice guy', be yourself.
This is actually really solid advice. Not only is it more fair to yourself and you don't have to be "scared" of wjat if she finds out the "real" you, but changing your attitude from "i need to impress her" to "she needs to impress me" will raise your self-value and self-confidence. Win-win.
I'm working on this myself...
That's not going to work out for me. I just going to sleep all day to avoid being awake
youngwerther
Banned
This is what happens to me a lot -
I'll be walking through campus, and I'll pass a girl and we'll make prolonged eye contact.
I immediately think "I bet she would like it if I spoke to her" and I want to, but then I just don't know what to say.
On average I'll see 3 to 4 women per day that I suspect might be attracted to me, and I never do anything about any of them.
To be honest I'm not even really afraid of being rejected or looking stupid. I've been alone for so long that I stopped giving a shit about those things. The only thing that stops me is that I don't have a single clue how to get the ball rolling. It seems like this herculean task of social grace and creative output, and you have to do it on the turn of a dime. And the fact that I'm introverted and therefore mostly expend energy when I talk to people, really does make it seem like a difficult thing to do.
"morNIIIIING!"
"Hi"
"Some weather we're having?"
"oh yea..haha"
"kbye"
dutchguyjack
Member
Wrong. It is going to work out for you if you put your mind to it. If you want to achieve something, you need to work for it. Do you think anybody who is slim or has a good body got it for free? Everyone watches what they eat, everyone spends a lot of time on Cardio and sports, and nobody ever achieved anything worth having by giving in to a weak mind.
That's the reality of things, and if you want to snap out of it, you'll need to accept that and put effort into achieving the things you want to achieve.
youngwerther said:
Then use that. The "I don't know what to say" is nothing more than an excuse guys (including me) use to not have to approach her. Chatting to a girl is really really easy once you get into it. All you have to do is say Hello, and if you're not sure what to say, just say the first thing that comes into your mind. It doesn't matter how random it is, just say it.
If there's something slightly different about her (e.g. she has an accent or something), use that as a conversational topic.
Second thing you can do is go take a class, like I've suggested multiple times here. Go to a dancing or cooking class, something where you'll meet new women, and you'll already have something to talk about, making the conversation easier.
youngwerther
Banned
Usually the first thing in my mind to say is the most honest, which is
"Hi. I think you are really attractive."
That to me just isn't a good way to start the ball rolling lol.
Sometimes I think things like "Wow I really like her earrings" or something about her style, but I've seen other guys do that and it always falls flat.
They say they like something that she has put together, she says thanks, and then they fall silent.
"Hi. I think you are really attractive."
That to me just isn't a good way to start the ball rolling lol.
Sometimes I think things like "Wow I really like her earrings" or something about her style, but I've seen other guys do that and it always falls flat.
They say they like something that she has put together, she says thanks, and then they fall silent.
Earrigs is good. You're at a university, right? It's "easy" to follow that up with what program she's in/stressed for finals/how she likes the campus, get the ball rolling. If she asks questions back and seems interested, ask for her number. If not, thank her and let it go in a nice, confident fashion.
EDIT: that topic is probably more appropriate for dating-gaf though haha
dutchguyjack
Member
Well if you want to go with a direct opener like that you need to keep in mind that you shouldn't really give her much time to respond to it. Just introduce yourself right after the compliment and say the first thing that comes to mind.
If you really can't think about anything to say ask her how her day has been or what she has been up to. Pick anything from that and continue the conversation from there - once you get over the initial awkwardness the conversation will come naturally.
So I think my therapist is mad at me. I haven't been working on my résumé which he wants me to do since changing jobs would help with my depression. I think he wants me to change therapists because he says that he doesn't think he can help me anymore. Honestly I hate this world and really want to get out of it. Nothing in this world is worth fighting for worth living for.
dutchguyjack
Member
Excuse my French, but why the hell not? Stop feeling sorry for yourself and do something with your life. You live the reality that you create. Getting fat, a lack of social contact and your perception of the world are all by choice. You chose this life, and it's fully within your power to change it.
And I apologize but this will be the last time I respond to your comments unless you actually do something with the advice that I, and others on here, give you. Otherwise both you and we are wasting our time.
Great OP! Subscribed.
I maybe a broken record, but I really do feel like an old man trapped in a young mans body.
My youth (from 16-21) was completely taken from me, and I have no idea how I could possibly amend this. Unlike others I never feel I had a chance to play and enjoy my youth, and now I just feel lost because of this. Of course I did go out, but because of my OCD (plus some other reasons) I struggled to socialise and enjoy myself as much as I'd have hoped.
I'm now stuck in a full-time job I do not wish to be doing, I'm living with a lot of regret, I lack confidence, I've not gotten very far with women, I have no motivation to do what I want to do, I fear failure, I have a low opinion of myself, and I have to deal with my OCD on a daily basis. I feel physically and mentally tired because of all of this, and I'm just fed up.
I just want to enjoy my life a bit, is that really too much to ask? I'm 23 and I feel like I'm going nowhere, and I'm more lost than ever. When I was a kid I had a clear idea of where I wanted to go, but now I'm not sure I'm on the right path.
I hate posting what is essentially the same message I always post, but this is all too frustrating for me.
I maybe a broken record, but I really do feel like an old man trapped in a young mans body.
My youth (from 16-21) was completely taken from me, and I have no idea how I could possibly amend this. Unlike others I never feel I had a chance to play and enjoy my youth, and now I just feel lost because of this. Of course I did go out, but because of my OCD (plus some other reasons) I struggled to socialise and enjoy myself as much as I'd have hoped.
I'm now stuck in a full-time job I do not wish to be doing, I'm living with a lot of regret, I lack confidence, I've not gotten very far with women, I have no motivation to do what I want to do, I fear failure, I have a low opinion of myself, and I have to deal with my OCD on a daily basis. I feel physically and mentally tired because of all of this, and I'm just fed up.
I just want to enjoy my life a bit, is that really too much to ask? I'm 23 and I feel like I'm going nowhere, and I'm more lost than ever. When I was a kid I had a clear idea of where I wanted to go, but now I'm not sure I'm on the right path.
I hate posting what is essentially the same message I always post, but this is all too frustrating for me.
You have a friend who made it happen, that is a golden opportunity for you to get first-hand advice and encouragement from someone who knows you, won't judge you, has been where you've been, and successfully and significantly changed his life for the better.
I know it looks like a huge mountain to climb, but you have to start at the bottom. You can't change your genes, but he didn't change his either.
Have a serious discussion with your friend. Why would he not want to help you?
EDIT: I thought I should clarify, I am aware that your friend lost weight while he was sick. Re-reading my post makes it sound like I was suggesting you get sick, which of course I wasn't. What I meant to imply is that he has kept the weight off in some way, unless he just recovered.
But if you just continually say 'that will never work for me' then how can he help you?
You can't prove something won't work by never trying it.
toadsworth
Banned
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Do you mind taking that down, toadsworth? Some people in here are very uncomfortable with that kind of thing.
Thanks, man! It can just be a very sensitive topic for people.
And I did like the post, SniperHunter! It got me thinking about resources for general mental well-being. I just haven't incorporated it into the post yet!
Thanks, man! It can just be a very sensitive topic for people.
And I did like the post, SniperHunter! It got me thinking about resources for general mental well-being. I just haven't incorporated it into the post yet!
I never choose this life. I never asked to be born.
I'm just tired of this life and don't know what to do. I don't have much experience in anything so I would not know what job to apply for.
I swear every time it looks like I have a social event lined up something comes up and nobody thinks of informing me. I'm sick of running after everybody and contacting everybody only for nobody to respond and later tell me "oh yeah it was busy so we went somewhere else". Fuck off, my life is pathetic enough as is, i don't want to de-value myself even more by running after everybody. I deserve better than that.
Fuck.
Fuck.
My point is not that you can't make comparisons, it's that you can't make unqualified comparisons, nor can you make sweeping generalisations. You have to judge the benefits relative to the costs and risks. This applies to everything, both traditional and alternative. In fact you could even apply this to doing nothing.
You are looking at this in terms of statistics, but you have to remember you are not dealing with stock levels or economic growth, you are dealing with real life human beings. Regardless the statistics any risk needs to be considered. You give examples of where alternatives go wrong, but what about official avenues going wrong? How many people in the last thread spoke of therapists that made things worse and didn't trust any therapist anymore? How many tried many different meds without success and then gave up on them? Or how about Uchip? He said that it was the meds that fucked him up worse than ever and he thinks beyond repair.
Regardless whether you, a doctor, a psychiatrist or the statistics think meds would be a good idea for someone, it's down to the individual what risks they are prepared to take. You can give strong recommendations, but the important thing is that people can make an informed choice.
People from many countries around the world look at this thread. The level of access they have to healthcare will vary. Saying the delay is not necessary is also factually inaccurate seeing as gamma has just posted that he's had to wait two months and still hasn't seen a therapist. Therapy is expensive, it's a fact that many people, maybe even the vast majority of people do have to wait to get access to therapy.
Shying away from resources and being open contradict each other. If some resources lack training that comes under being a risk. But there's always a risk, your homeopathist may only care about money, your hypnotherapist may use faulty techniques, your doctor may be malpractise level dodgy, your therapist may be uncaring, your religious advisor may be an extremist, your meds may hurt you, your exercise accident may paralyse you. Whatever the resource or intervention, meds, CBT, religious helpline, yoga etc you should give both the potential benefits and the potential risks and then people can decide for themselves. Hiding things is also unethical as it goes against informed choice. If an intervention hurts someone that's sad but it's reality, but if they only took that intervention because you withheld an alternative that's wrong.
The thing with being ethical isn't just me being idealistic, there are always serious consequences if you go against it.
In this case, regardless the problem someone has and regardless the actions they take to resolve it, ultimately it all comes down to taking responsibility. If someone takes responsibility for their mental health issue they may succeed in overcoming it, if they don't take responsibility they won't succeed. Even if someone follows your advice personal responsibility is the key element. The individual has to take responsibility and accept that they have a mental health issue. They have to take responsibility and choose to take action. They have to take responsibility to go to the doctor. They have to take the responsibility of listening to his recommendations. If given meds they have to take the responsibility of following the prescription. If given therapy they have to take the responsibility of going to the sessions. Surrounding everything they have to take responsibility for living their lives in an effective manner.
That element of taking responsibility is crucial, it has to be cultivated. Because without it there's no way someone can succeed against mental illness and live a happy life. For people to take responsibility you have to trust them. If you don't present someone with an option you are taking away their ability to choose and in doing so you are undermining their ability to take responsibility.
I know it's scary. You'd like people to make the best decisions, so of course it will be tempting to try to wrap people up in cotton wool to protect them. But the decision is theirs, whether a risk is worth taking is for them to decide. To have any success, you need to be prepared to fail. You need to let people make their own decisions.
By giving people responsibility you increase the chance that they'll take responsibility and make a decision. In being ethical and trusting people you also increase their trust in you, so they'll be more likely to follow your recommendations.
Thanks for the thoughts, heidern. I know we don't exactly see eye to eye on this, but I will think about what you've said. It's great to have another perspective.
I guess my current thought is that there is not perfect information about the risks and benefits of many things, and some are known less well than others. For all that to come out, we have all of these places to talk to each other and share things. The OP is already overflowing - it cannot hold everything. I hope the things in there are informative - definitions, how things are diagnosed, what kinds of medications are used - without being too prescriptive. You're advised to seek professional help, but I don't tell you to take meds or do therapy, or eat more beets or whatever. It's all just a basic guide to some mental health topics. As you said, it cannot possibly be free of my own biases. But I hope the first post, which basically welcomes people to a wide-ranging discussion, is the part that people will pay the most attention to. The rest is just some basic info that I frankly don't expect most people will read. I'll keep working to make it better, to include a wide range of resources, to cover all kinds of approaches, and to cover basic resources for a healthy mind, but it can never take the place of great discussion in the thread.
I guess my current thought is that there is not perfect information about the risks and benefits of many things, and some are known less well than others. For all that to come out, we have all of these places to talk to each other and share things. The OP is already overflowing - it cannot hold everything. I hope the things in there are informative - definitions, how things are diagnosed, what kinds of medications are used - without being too prescriptive. You're advised to seek professional help, but I don't tell you to take meds or do therapy, or eat more beets or whatever. It's all just a basic guide to some mental health topics. As you said, it cannot possibly be free of my own biases. But I hope the first post, which basically welcomes people to a wide-ranging discussion, is the part that people will pay the most attention to. The rest is just some basic info that I frankly don't expect most people will read. I'll keep working to make it better, to include a wide range of resources, to cover all kinds of approaches, and to cover basic resources for a healthy mind, but it can never take the place of great discussion in the thread.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
One is weighted by scientific evidence, peer review and alternative medicines are not. The cost vs risk has been taken into consideration. I don't get your point. Believing that something might help is not the same as having enough evidence of efficacy.
Economics does deal with people and as the past articles about the pro-austerity paper having the wrong numbers and how that was used it affected many millions of lives, perhaps billions not just numbers (economics is much more a social science, psychology of markets, really). Same with medicine, no one is saying that therapy and medication will be 100% effective cure-all. What we are saying is that it is the best avenue for people to begin dealing with it and professional help is there and effective. Yes, the quality and availability and effectiveness of the therapist may vary. If you are not happy with it or the way things are going, it's within your right to refuse any more treatment. With meds it's trickier and bagels is more educated in that.
I don't have a problem with this. Skepticism is good, but to a point. Being an informed patient is to ask questions and bring up any worries with your doctor, get a second opinion if you want. Bagels nor I have ever said “meds for every case”, don't paint it that way.
Yes, that is a problem and we do encourage people to post any local resources here. I don't see how that invalidates my point. You can PM us, you can use social networks, to help in a crisis. That's what this thread is for. I don't see what you're getting at, what's the alternative? I just want people to go see a professional first instead of self-diagnosing and self-medicating, which is a huge problem. People are free to post here about their worries and we'll do the best to advice when we feel we can.
My point was that to be inclusive we have to be secular about how we deal with the issues raised in this thread. I am not saying that we oppose seeing your priest or rabbi about your problems. They may be very helpful in that regard. If people want to see some religious helplines and resources that's fine. Personally, I am very skeptical of how religious institutions deal with mental health, especially dealing with problems of sexuality. This is coming from personal experiences and anecdotes from very close people. We want to encourage people to be free and post what is on their mind, their worries and problems. That's a very personal challenge and asking a lot of people to have the confidence to share. What we don't want is people to feel that they will be judged or marginalized. We are not withholding anything.
Personal responsibility is implied by even admitting that you might have a problem.
I don't see how that invalidates my previous points and I agree with many of your points here.
I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything. We're not experts or anything, just a bunch of random people with similar experiences trying to make the best of it and dealing however we can.
Good to see a new thread to start on a fresh note.
I think I've mentioned it before, but nonetheless.. This book has opened my eyes several times. I've worked through it with my therapist. But if you don't have one you can always give it a shot of course. The title is horribly cheesy, but it's good. Written by the man who developed schema therapy.
Reinventing your life by Jeffrey E. Young.
I think I've mentioned it before, but nonetheless.. This book has opened my eyes several times. I've worked through it with my therapist. But if you don't have one you can always give it a shot of course. The title is horribly cheesy, but it's good. Written by the man who developed schema therapy.
Reinventing your life by Jeffrey E. Young.
Good to see a new thread to start on a fresh note.
I think I've mentioned it before, but nonetheless.. This book has opened my eyes several times. I've worked through it with my therapist. But if you don't have one you can always give it a shot of course. The title is horribly cheesy, but it's good. Written by the man who developed schema therapy.
Reinventing your life by Jeffrey E. Young.
Thanks for the recommendation, the contents look like it's exactly something that I need; I'm victim to most of those lifetraps there. Gonna look for a copy at my regular bookstore on Sunday.
dutchguyjack
Member
I don't think that's a result of depression. I have an on-off thing going for a girl as well, with moments I'm immensely interested in her, and moments where I couldn't care less about her. I'm not depressed however, so I think it relies more on the relationship you have towards this person. Back when I was still depressed I was madly in love with a girl I knew, and that was very consistent.
Collete
Member
That's the spirit, keep it up. Proud of ya.
toadsworth
Banned
Apologies, I wasn't thinking.
How do you guys keep yourselves motivated? Finals are in two weeks and I am woefully behind. Need some form of motivation to hit the books.
Music, reward yourself for working hard, coffee, go some place like the library and unplug as many devices as you can.
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