ahhh. ok then, nvm
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Metal Gear Community Thread |OT2| © 2015 Konami Digital Entertainment
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
- Start date
- Status
I might use the guns for mags or as a distraction. Don't worry Shinkawa, your efforts wont be in vain.
Jimmyfenix
Member
Establishes Outer Heaven which holds a bipedal nuclear tank, uses child soldiers, and holds the world oil supply hostage. Those are a couple of things he does in Metal Gear 1 and 2.
Boss is sent to kill Big Boss, his mentor after the whole fiasco with the nukes.
Boss was loyal to Big Boss, and struggled to carry on the mission. It was only because of The Boss going after him that this happened.
So Big Boss resents not only The Boss, but the government. Specially Major Zero, who becomes Cipher.
In Peace Walker, we get BB starting up his own army. Where no politics intervene.
He doesn't believe in major powers, and believes in the power of a nuke to deter other threats.
In the end, he only believes in his ability to protect his own, and then Motherbase is destroyed at teh end of GZ. Which wills end him into a spiral down to madness, i hope.
So he resents the people that have used him, lied to him, and is now looking for a way to settle things on his own terms.
Boss was loyal to Big Boss, and struggled to carry on the mission. It was only because of The Boss going after him that this happened.
So Big Boss resents not only The Boss, but the government. Specially Major Zero, who becomes Cipher.
In Peace Walker, we get BB starting up his own army. Where no politics intervene.
He doesn't believe in major powers, and believes in the power of a nuke to deter other threats.
In the end, he only believes in his ability to protect his own, and then Motherbase is destroyed at teh end of GZ. Which wills end him into a spiral down to madness, i hope.
So he resents the people that have used him, lied to him, and is now looking for a way to settle things on his own terms.
At least that is what i understand.
You guys can add, edit or expand on this.. since i am sure a lot more people here are more invested in the details.
This is all good too, and much more simple than my text. lol.
Desiring a perpetual need for soldiers is pretty bad. Plus the TPP trailers seem to suggest he's condoning torture. In PW, he also called himself a gun and fully rejected The Boss' desire for peace.
There is also that bit in the Ground Zeroes briefing tapes where
With that and the part in Peace Walker where
, you can see that he's already well on the way to being a bit of a bad guy...
Big Boss and Kaz casually discuss killing off Paz to ensure she can't compromise anything about ZEKE and Mother Base.
With that and the part in Peace Walker where
BB and Kaz decide it's a really good idea to arm their own personal giant war machine with a fucking nuclear warhead
He is the antagonist in MG1, MG2. He commits so many atrocities. He was evil in those games but with the newer games it gets retconned little, and makes him seem more human.
MGS3 is about his origin story. The moment where the good guy BB kind of dies is when he has to kill The Boss. PW is about him starting his own army without a nation and in TPP we will finally witness BB's descent into madness, resulting in the character we know from MG1, MG2. He then wants a world with constant conflict (wars).
Aww yeeahh! GZ/MSF suit + Shield = Captain America speed runs.
Å
Åesop
Unconfirmed Member
get your stuff together m8 (ง ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)ง you are mixing things up with The Boss and Big Boss
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
He's not really that messed up. He talks the perpetual war talk but I don't recall him actually doing anything particularly bad. Maybe I wasn't paying attention.
Ballistics
Member
It doesn't get retconned in the slightest...it's even celebrated by Liquid and Ocelot.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
how about that part where he creates 2 nations, with child soldiers included, completely dedicated to war and wants to bully the world into giving in to his idea of constant warfare via using a nuclear weapon.
Even in Peace Walker he was completely willing to not be involved in Costa Rica until he heard about The Boss, and then went and created a Metal Gear with nuke and everything.
With some persuasion from Huey and Miller to use said nuke as a deterrent.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Doesn't make it a good action. Plus, as Paz points out, it wasn't serving as a deterrent since they couldn't reveal its existence to the world. It's just an excuse to have more power.
MGS4 retconned BB. His initial philosophy in the Metal Gear games was very violent: creating wars for the sake of wars, so soldiers like him would be needed. Nothing more. He wasn't fighting against anyone or anything or for the greater good of mankind. He was very bloodthirsty. But with MGS4 this suddenly turned him into having a secret rebbelion against the "true evil" that is Zero/Patriots.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, like I said, he talks a good evil plan but we don't actually see him do anything terrible or commit any kind of atrocity.
The kid's are mostly war orphans that, yes, he will go on to train as soldiers, but what else are they going to do, they're freakin' orphans from war-torn countries with nowhere to go.
Soldiering is a fairly decent job by any standard. Teaches discipline, offers them a structured learning environment, None of the kids ever engage you in combat personally, so there may even be a system in place whereby they don't actually fight until they reach a certain age. I guess technically that still constitutes as Child Soldiering if you take the hardline Amnesty International stance on the subject, but it is on the much "friendlier" end of the scale compared to what happens in the rest the world (which includes all kinds of abuse, drugging, kidnaping and the regular feeding of gunpowder).
I always took it as BB doing them a favour, if anything. We've always had stories of him taking youths under his wing.
Ballistics
Member
Just because he was fighting against Zero and the Patriots, it doesn't mean it voids all the stuff he did. He didn't do it all to fight Zero. His ideology was against Zero's, hence why they had a cold war.
In Peace Walker, he didn't create MSF to fight Zero, he created it to give soldiers a place. In Metal Gear, he was not fighting against the US government, they were fighting against him, because of the things he did.
It's not just Zero, the whole world wants him dead. If he had sat in his little shack next to the beach in Colombia none of this would of happened.
We've let ourselves interfere with the times - with the Cold War system of deterrence. We're an army without a flag. We weren't supposed to take sides in international affairs. But we did.
Starting wars to orphan children and then putting those children back into war to create more orphans, that has nothing to do with fighting Zero. To Big Boss it's a "perfectly logical system", because war is his reason to live and Zero stands in the way of that.
Play Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2.
He commits many atrocities. Just because you dont see them on screen doesn't mean they didn't happen according to the story. Miller was killed off screen by Liquid's men before the events of MGS1. Does that mean Liquid is not guilty because we didnt see him do anything in the game?
I dont understand why people are so desperate in denying that BB was a villain during MG1, MG2 and that he will turn into that villain during TPP.
"I like this character so much he can't possibly be a bad guy".
Jimmyfenix
Member
Thread ded
Zambatoh
Member
Let the thread come back to life!
Well it is 1:30 am in the UK. Even later in mainland Europe.
RoyaleDuke
Banned
Oh man all those new details, good lord.
Sounds like there will be quite a lot of weapons. Excellent.
Fake weapons, unfortunately.
Mexen
Member
3:47am. Nowhere near sleepy. Just reading up on all things MGS.
You said that his character didn't get retconned in the slightest. Anyone that has played MG1 and MG2 and played MGS4 will see the difference. It's quite jarring if you compare the two BB personalities. With MG1,MG2 he seems like a totally different person with an entire different philosophy compared to the one in MGS4. That is my point. There was no retcon in the story but change in character. From bloodthirsty warmonger who only cares about proliferating wars so he and other soldiers have a place in the world to a secret rebellion that works against the real evil. How can you not see the difference? The only thing that wasn't retconned was the means to an end.
It's obvious why Kojima changed it: MGS3. He showed BB's origin story and made him into a likeable character. Kojima has said that he doesn't plan every installment and story out in advance. He likes to make stories more interesting which is always coupled with retcons here and there. He said that there will be "discrepancies for a better experience of storytelling". So ofcourse there are going to be differences from the first installment of the saga to the end of the saga.
RoyaleDuke
Banned
We don't know that for sure, there might be real weapons in the game.
I hope it's both fake and real weapons. Like in Peace Walker.
Yes, I love Peace Walker.
I can't imagine there'd be a mix. If they don't even give the Soviets AK-47's then I don't think we'll see squat outside of made up guns.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Then play the games he's the main villian in. Especially MG2, which actually has a story. It's like saying Liquid is not evil just because his Outer Heaven never came to be a thing.
RoyaleDuke
Banned
Well to be fair, the fake AKs are basically AK74s.
I'd like to think that they have a mixture of real and fake weapons like PW, but I have a feeling we won't know until release or close to it.
Well to be fair, the fake AKs are basically AK74s.
I'd like to think that they have a mixture of real and fake weapons like PW, but I have a feeling we won't know until release or close to it.
Yeah I know they're heavily based off of the AK, but it isn't an actual AK in the game. PW was great when it came to mixing real/fake weapons. The fake came along when it had to do with the R&D team, etc. Since the fake weapons are being used by enemies, I just don't see real guns being used.
RoyaleDuke
Banned
I totally get you IP, I'm just trying to boost morale for a 6 month wait.
I still think maybe it's because they are still putting the game together, so who knows maybe there will be a nice mixture or maybe we are stuck with guns that are a mishmash of either same firearms within the same or similar family.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
All i need is my Tranquilizer Pistol and a Mosin-Nagant
Ballistics
Member
You're calling Big Boss' character development a retcon? His character changed because he had changed. From MG he was seen as "a mercenary who was at the same time a hero and a maniac". What do you expect him to do after 15 years locked away in a coma? Go straight back to Africa and screw up the world again? No, because he was a good guy turned bad. Instead he sacrificed his life for Solid Snake and ended the mess he helped create.
Of course, there we be discrepancies with MG and MG2, there always were ever since MGS. But that's what you are quoting there, not Kojima talking about MGS4. Big Boss in MGS4 is a remorseful character talking about the mistakes he had made. And you don't do that if you are plain evil or even if you are supposedly fighting plain evil.
~ Zyzomys ~
Member
I was thinking the same thing myself. I knew I would be restarting a level in MGSV:GZ when I used a weapon to kill someone in frustration (after setting of an alarm by doing something brainless 😊
. Cheers
I'm hoping the PC version will allow for model swaps so we can play with real guns. Have any modders do that on GZ for PC yet?
RoyaleDuke
Banned
There's no progress on that yet to my knowledge and it might be impossible.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Ugh i keep bouncing back and forth whether i go PS4 or PC ;_;
PS4 has:
-Larger community
-Most of Outer-GAF will be there
-Early release date
PC has:
-Lower price
-Graphical Enhancements
PS4 has:
-Larger community
-Most of Outer-GAF will be there
-Early release date
PC has:
-Lower price
-Graphical Enhancements
Double dip?
get both, that's what i'm doing.
i'm probably gonna spend the most of my time on the pc version.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
If the difference between releases was about a month or so i would do it. But two weeks is a short amount of time.
RoyaleDuke
Banned
I'm probably going to Double Dip in the end, I can't wait two whole weeks after waiting six months.
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