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Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie

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S

Shake Appeal

Member
Eurogamer Scoring Policy said:
Eight is that tricky "almost brilliant" category, that for fans of the genre in most cases will still warrant serious recommendation to go out and buy, while even people into other genres will probably still draw plenty of enjoyment from. You should at the very least try and play the demo, borrow it or rent it first, but bear in mind that it's not necessarily going to appeal to every person who plays it.
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[Metal Gear Solid 4] burrows deeper into what fans love and detractors hate than ever before, and it will make few converts. ... You could not ask for a funnier, cleverer, more ambitious or inspired or over-the-top conclusion to the Metal Gear Solid series.
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What about this is unreasonable?
 
Z

zoukka

Member
EDIT: Holy shit at the reply-barrage!

@ Nelsonroyale

That's weird because for me MGS4 has always looked least attractive from art- point of view, from all Solid games.

But technics+art = win this time.
 
H

hauton

Member
Shake Appeal said:
Some of you are far, far too upset about what one man, Oli Walsh, thinks of a game that you are clearly going to love and enjoy.
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Nobody cares what he thinks. It's his opinion, he's free to share it.

However a real review is not just simply "what he thinks". It's a fair, reasonably-supported argument with the goal of being objective.

Which that diatribe was not.
 
A

Absinthe (Permed)

Banned
Shake Appeal said:
What about this is unreasonable?
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The review itself is unreasonable because it is obvious that the guy thought way too hard about how to rate the game. He mentions fans, he mentions people that hate the game, etc. and then he gives the game a safe score. Why didn't he rate the game for what it is instead of thinking about who this game is for and who the game isn't for?
 
D

DSN2K

Member
hats off to everyone involved in the official Thread creation, easily finest thing Ive seen on GAF well done.
 
D

Danne-Danger

Member
Yoboman said:
While we're heading that way. My opinion is that the gaming media needs to evolve into a medium with more "reviewers" and less "review sites" with reviewers catering to their "scale". Take Yahtzee, although he is over-the-top and I disagree with him half the time, he is uncompromising and a one-man-operation, you know what to expect from him and that's consistency. He is purely subjective, but because it's a one man deal, it works as it should

The movie industry is already like this
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That's an excellent point and I think 1up has this going for them as well, if you're a follower of their shows and podcasts that is.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
Absinthe said:
That's even worse because they didn't have the balls to stick with their original score.
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Tom Bramwell gave it 7 in November 2006, and Kristan Reed gave it 6 in March 2007. Two different people reviewed it in two different contexts, some time apart, and they should necessarily agree?

Eurogamer understand that there is no singular 'voice of the site' standard for reviewing, and allow the individual's taste to have a bearing on the score. Kristan Reed has been quite vocal, for instance, about Halo 3 not deserving the 10 that Rob Fahey gave it. Healthy disagreement is, well, healthy.

Some of you are having conniptions because one man you have never met and will never meet said your baby was less than everyone's favourite game of all time. Breathe.
 
EviLore

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Edge giving a 5/10 to The Witcher, now that's something to cause a shitstorm over >:|. Didn't draw much attention, though.
 
B

BeeDog

Member
EviLore said:
Edge giving a 5/10 to The Witcher, now that's something to cause a shitstorm over >:|. Didn't draw much attention, though.
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Indeed! Face it, Eurogamer has an odd habit of deviating from the rest of the reviewers, no need to be alarmed.
 
Sorc3r3r

Sorc3r3r

Member
The review itself is unreasonable because it is obvious that the guy thought way too hard about how to rate the game. He mentions fans, he mentions people that hate the game, etc. and then he gives the game a safe score. Why didn't he rate the game for what it is instead of thinking about who this game is for and who the game isn't for?
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'cause the eurogamer scoring policy say otherwise....
 
H

hauton

Member
EviLore said:
Edge giving a 5/10 to The Witcher, now that's something to cause a shitstorm over >:|. Didn't draw much attention, though.
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Both of them have some of the worst reviewers that games have had the misfortune of bearing.
 
Yoboman

Yoboman

Member
Shake Appeal said:
What about this is unreasonable?
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How many people are complaining about the score itself, and how many people are complaining about the reviewers justification (or lack thereof) for it? Like I said in a previous post, he claimed MGS4 is still far behind many other series in it's genre, yet does not go on to explain how
 
DCharlie

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
The review itself is unreasonable because it is obvious that the guy thought way too hard about how to rate the game. He mentions fans, he mentions people that hate the game, etc. and then he gives the game a safe score. Why didn't he rate the game for what it is instead of thinking about who this game is for and who the game isn't for?
Click to expand...

... he was trying to be objective ironically! ;)
 
Yoboman

Yoboman

Member
EviLore said:
Edge giving a 5/10 to The Witcher, now that's something to cause a shitstorm over >:|. Didn't draw much attention, though.
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Seriously? I'd create a shit-storm right now if I didn't want to go off topic
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
hauton said:
Nobody cares what he thinks. It's his opinion, he's free to share it.

However a real review is not just simply "what he thinks". It's a fair, reasonably-supported argument with the goal of being objective.

Which that diatribe was not.
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An 8 out of 10 (80%!) review that praises the game (reservedly) and makes clear than fans of the series are going to be completely satsified and bowled over by it is a 'diatribe' now?

What 'a real review' constitutes is up for grabs. Funnily enough, you have your opinion and I have mine: that it is individual-oriented and claims for itself no objective, aesthetic truth. You seem to think that Oli Walsh is contravening the laws of the universe by stating his preferences and suggesting how this game might be received by different audiences. Clue: he is not.
 
F

Frenck

Banned
Absinthe said:
The review itself is unreasonable because it is obvious that the guy thought way too hard about how to rate the game. He mentions fans, he mentions people that hate the game, etc. and then he gives the game a safe score. Why didn't he rate the game for what it is instead of thinking about who this game is for and who the game isn't for?
Click to expand...

That's a really good point but it can be applied to any other review too. Even the 9/10 and 10/10 and 9.9 ones.

We should all just agree that scores mean jack shit and go on. A bad score isn't going to take anything away from the game (except for sales, which shouldn't bother you).
 
N

nelsonroyale

Member
zoukka said:
EDIT: Holy shit at the reply-barrage!

@ Nelsonroyale

That's weird because for me MGS4 has always looked least attractive from art- point of view, from all Solid games.

But technics+art = win this time.
Click to expand...

Character artistry I meant

Raiden plus the beauty and the beast units look incredible....
 
A

Absinthe (Permed)

Banned
DCharlie said:
... he was trying to be objective ironically! ;)
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There's no point in that though. This series is four games in, more if you count spin-offs and such. This is the fourth big game in the franchise and by this point people know whether or not they like the Metal Gear games. So he was being objective by taking into account people that won't touch the series with a ten foot pole? :lol It's just stupid.
 
Y

Ydahs

Member
Bloody hell GAF, stop crying over an 8. That's a great score and the person's opinion.

Seriously, some just want to hear what they want to hear.
 
I

Id.

Member
Absinthe said:
Why didn't he rate the game for what it is instead of thinking about who this game is for and who the game isn't for?
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Isn't this the same thing Jeremy and Lisa from Game Informer did with their Paper Mario 2 review?
 
B

BeeDog

Member
Bearillusion said:
Reviewers. MGO. Did you even touch it?
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You can already draw some conclusions on how MGO will be: the same as the beta, but with some further polish and some additional maps (and maybe a new game type, I haven't been following).
 
Yoboman

Yoboman

Member
Danne-Danger said:
That's an excellent point and I think 1up has this going for them as well, if you're a follower of their shows and podcasts that is.
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Yes, but they're still under that 1up banner

When I start seeing Shane Bettenhausen or Andrew Pfister listed next to a review on Metacritic instead of 1up, I'll say we're moving in the right direction
 
DCharlie

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
What 'a real review' constitutes is up for grabs. Funnily enough, you have your opinion and I have mine: that it is individual-oriented and claims for itself no objective, aesthetic truth. You seem to think that Oli Walsh is contravening the laws of the universe by stating his preferences and suggesting how this game might be received by different audiences. Clue: he is not.
Click to expand...

reviews should be objective.... except when they are! then they SUCK! ;)

basically, the argument falls flat as it seems that only 9.5+ reviews will be considered objective.

subjective spins on objectiveness - it's the new kool!
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
BeeDog said:
You can already draw some conclusions on how MGO will be: the same as the beta, but with some further polish and some additional maps (and maybe a new game type, I haven't been following).
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Yeah but it's so awesome, it should be reviewed.
 
Pop On Arrival

Pop On Arrival

Banned
BeeDog said:
You can already draw some conclusions on how MGO will be: the same as the beta, but with some further polish and some additional maps (and maybe a new game type, I haven't been following).
Click to expand...

I think also pretty clear that Konami has asked reviewers not to take MGS4 into account when reviewing MGO. It's pretty much gonna be reviewed as a standalone game.

edit: my fingers are shit today.
 
Z

zerodayPopbot

Member
Frenck said:
That's a really good point but it can be applied to any other review too. Even the 9/10 and 10/10 and 9.9 ones.

We should all just agree that scores mean jack shit and go on. A bad score isn't going to take anything away from the game (except for sales, which shouldn't bother you).
Click to expand...

It does bother me when a game like MGS4, which deserves a high score, which will inherently lead, to equally deserved high sales.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
Bearillusion said:
Reviewers. MGO. Did you even touch it?
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Traditionally Eurogamer have reviewed the online portion of a AAA title some weeks after the original singleplayer. Damn them for taking the time to see how the game actually performs among strangers out in the wild! Damn their backwards standards to hell! No justification blubber blubber.

Good score. Great game. This review isn't going to stop anyone buying and enjoying this title if they were planning too already. That should be the end of the discussion for now, GAF, especially considering that Oli Walsh has played and completed the game and you have not.
 
N

nelsonroyale

Member
DCharlie said:
... he was trying to be objective ironically! ;)
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but he ends up becoming as incoherent as he claims the game is...ironically..

Funnyily enough I could understand what he was trying to articulate, just thought it was very poorly articulated...
 
P

Pug

Member
LeoStenbuck said:
It does bother me when a game like MGS4, which deserves a high score, which will inherently lead, to equally deserved high sales.
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It deserves a high score? And you have played it?
 
H

[HP]

Member
bundles1.jpg







Is this information correct? Because afaik the 80gb PS3 will not be sold on EU, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Retail_configurations
 
A

Absinthe (Permed)

Banned
ShockingAlberto said:
I wonder if anyone complaining actually cares what he thinks about the game more than they care how this affects the Gamerankings aggregate score.
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I don't give a shit about gamerankings, but it is absolutely moronic for a reviewer to take into consideration people that hate a franchise when awarding a game a score. The fact that he mentions people that dislike the Metal Gear franchise is puzzling to me. Did he expect the "millions" of people that detest Metal Gear games to suddenly jump on Kojima's dick? I mean, seriously. It's puzzling and quite moronic.

Imagine if reviewers took into consideration the millions of people that hate the mindlessness of the GTA titles.
 
S

Steroyd

Member
Yoboman said:
How many people are complaining about the score itself, and how many people are complaining about the reviewers justification (or lack thereof) for it? Like I said in a previous post, he claimed MGS4 is still far behind many other series in it's genre, yet does not go on to explain how
Click to expand...

In it's....genre?
 
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