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[AgentLampshade]

Controls are a little bit fiddly at first.

It's meant to be played like a damn fiddle.

 

[Tomallica]

It's meant to be played like a damn fiddle.

Nice

 

[Zaki2407]

Just tried remote play for the first time using this game. Amazing...

 

[G-Fex]

I really shouldn't have watched that video.

 

[Toxa]

Man... I have some shitty news for you. You could've just got an A rank, unlocked the RPG at the spawn point, and from there you can destroy three anti-air units and the tank that shows up later on in like two minutes flat. Easiest S rank.

done

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4VXtoR0NU

 

[Solidino]

i really love GZ, thanks Koji, i can't wait for the ludic Messiah TPP.
GZ is simply amazing, i get 93% in almost 22 hours, i can't image how hours of gameplay will take me to complete TPP, i think over 200.
thanks thanks and thanks again, god bless you everywhere u are.

 

[Solidino]

THEY PLAYED US LIKE A DAMN FIDDLE!!!!!

Come on localization team how the hell did you let that slide, probably Kojima cutting their balls off and forcing a 1:1 translation regardless of how dumb it sounds in english.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93YbvXa4Bhk

 

[Salaadin]

Lindsay might be a worse Metal Gear Solid player than this legendarily bad player, haha.

He makes me so antsy. Like I feel physically ill watching him and listening to him.

 

[cackhyena]

He makes me so antsy. Like I feel physically ill watching him and listening to him.

And that's how he makes his bank.

 

[Zen]

MGS1/2 had that mini puzzle like element, but it kind of went away from that direction with MGS3 being much more free form, I feel like GZ absolutely still has puzzle solving in it, though to each their own.

 

[bishopcruz]

so i just finished the game a few minutes ago....my impressions are that there is very little amount of content in the main mission(it's to be expected here, so i am not bitching ) much less than even the tanker mission on MGS2.

Wha? I just played through MGS2 again a week ago. I don't get how you can say this has less content, unless by content you mean cutscenes and codec stuff. The tanker had what, 16 small areas to go through? It's hard to compare an open map like GZ to a linear-ish map like the tanker, but it's definitely a lot more than that.

Big Boss character model is not that great, i actually think that it's a downgrade compared to MGS4 especially the hair.

OK?

MGS1/2 had that mini puzzle like element, but it kind of went away from that direction with MGS3 being much more free form, I feel like GZ absolutely still has puzzle solving in it, though to each their own.

GZ is less about the micro room element that MGS1 and MGS2 were about to being a lot more about the entire environment. You can set off explosives far away to send the entire base on alert if you need to, cut power to different areas, use vehicles to sneak in, or even do crazy things like calling in a helicopter into a hot zone as a distraction. So much variability.

 

[-Deimos]

done

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4VXtoR0NU

You're terrible at leading targets lol.

 

[Ermac]

Do you need no kills to S Rank a mission?

 

[Zaverious]

done

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4VXtoR0NU

You can destroy the searchlights?! Wow.

 

[rvy]

You can destroy the searchlights?! Wow.

You can disable most lights in the game by shooting them.

 

[jett]

Do you need no kills to S Rank a mission?

You just need a certain amount of points for each mission. It can certainly help your final score.

You can disable most lights in the game by shooting them.

You can destroy all the yellow-colored lights in the environment.

 

[fritzo]

Stuck on 99%! I need to S rank the Kojima Rescue mission on Hard. My last playthrough I got an A and I was pissed. No kills at all. 1 retry. WTF. I guess I need to do it faster. How many points are needed to get a S rank on this mission anyway? What's funny is that I had a better score on Hard than I had on Normal.

 

[jett]

Stuck on 99%! I need to S rank the Kojima Rescue mission on Hard. My last playthrough I got an A and I was pissed. No kills at all. 1 retry. WTF. I guess I need to do it faster. How many points are needed to get a S rank on this mission anyway? What's funny is that I had a better score on Hard than I had on Normal.

Don't retry, that's it.

 

[Toxa]

You can destroy the searchlights?! Wow.

yeah you can destroy the wood watch tower

 

[Salaadin]

I've pretty much given up on 100%ing this because of the helicopter mission. I'm not fast or good enough to get that without retries.

 

[ironcreed]

I caved and bought this on my 360 for $20 because I just wanted a sample of the Fox engine. I have to say, it's a fun bite-sized playground to mess around in with multiple ways to play, bonus missions, etc. No regrets here. Totally worth $20.

 

[fritzo]

Don't retry, that's it.

really, thats it?! don't retry. fml. that last guy in the chopper is difficult to shoot at, and I don't understand why.

 

[Salaadin]

really, thats it?! don't retry. fml. that last guy in the chopper is difficult to shoot at, and I don't understand why.

You have to lead your shots a little bit

 

[Baust]

really, thats it?! don't retry. fml. that last guy in the chopper is difficult to shoot at, and I don't understand why.

I killed him because I was so close to failing, but I ended up with an S rank even with the one kill. I've never been able to get him non-lethally.

 

[bishopcruz]

I killed him because I was so close to failing, but I ended up with an S rank even with the one kill. I've never been able to get him non-lethally.

I did, but it took a TON of shots, shots that I am pretty sure hit. So I don't know if it's a leading thing, or the fact that it takes a TON of hits for him to go down. What worries me most about S ranking the thing on hard is the jeeps.

 

[jett]

I did, but it took a TON of shots, shots that I am pretty sure hit. So I don't know if it's a leading thing, or the fact that it takes a TON of hits for him to go down. What worries me most about S ranking the thing on hard is the jeeps.

You can kill a couple of dudes and it won't affect your score much, just don't overdo it.

 

[Heroman]

Do you get anything for getting 100%?

 

[jett]

Do you get anything for getting 100%?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

My friend from earlier has been compiling his thoughts, and wanted me to post them.

Hi all. I've got quite a bit to say, so I'm going to be splitting my thoughts into two posts. This first one will cover what I feel are the most important and fundamental issues I have with the game, while the second will contain more secondary concerns, as well as some miscellaneous notes I made while playing. So first, two broad statements:

I think this game is brilliant, and I adore its basic concept. I also think it has some incredibly deep flaws.

The main flaw is, basically, situational awareness. If you've played the game for any significant amount of time, you've probably encountered a situation where you, say, came around a corner and were instantly spotted by a guard you had no way of knowing was there previously. Maybe it was the other way around. In any case, the game's "naturalistic" design almost inevitably leads to hard fail states like these with no way to counteract them. Reflex mode exists solely as a bandage for this flaw (though I actually find it satisfying to use much of the time; it's a pretty solid mechanic on its own). With practice, a player can overcome this, since they'll know the positions of enemies ahead of time, even with the game's randomization elements (being a speed run lover, this is exactly what happened for me), but this isn't a solution at all. The marking system is also obviously not a complete solution. This would seem like a problem to be fixed by sound design, but I honestly don't think that's possible either. Enemies are already given coughs, sneezes, conversations and all other sorts of behaviors to make you aware of their presence even when they're invisible, in addition to their footsteps, but it's just not enough.

To illustrate my point more clearly, here's a rough summary of how the game implements undisturbed guard behaviors. They patrol in a set manner until they reach set points where they idle. While they idle they perform a set number of idle behaviors (each idle point has its own set number of behaviors to be performed, and that number can be zero). The behaviors themselves are randomly chosen from a pool. Some of these behaviors are much better than others at warning players due to audibility, and it's total luck of the draw. Catch a guard in between idle behaviors when they're basically silent and still? Too bad. This system essentially ignores the player entirely. It creates a convincing sense that the world of the game truly exists outside the player's perception, a core part of that naturalistic philosophy, but it's disastrous for actual gameplay. The first solution I thought of to this was a player based sound model, where invisible enemies emit sounds when a player gets within a certain distance of them, or fulfills some other intentionally obfuscated requirement, probably with some amount of randomization still. However, this would open up avenues for abuse and have so many variables that could interfere that it would probably fail at some point. In the end, I think that sound design alone isn't sufficient to solve this problem, even though it's the only way to keep the game's naturalistic design aesthetic fully intact (you could add gadgets like Splinter Cell's remote camera I guess, but I can't think of something like that that wouldn't have big downsides; go ahead and suggest something if you can!). They need to compromise.

But there's good news: they've already designed a fantastic solution. Remember the Threat Ring from MGS4? You know, that weird thing you probably never stopped to use once you got the Solid Eye a few minutes into the game? Now, at last, is its time to shine. MGS4's basic concept isn't far removed from MGSV's at all, and the Threat Ring is a natural fit as a result. It would appear when you're crouched or still and disappear when you stand or sprint (or drive; vehicle implementation of this idea is an oddity, but really everything about vehicles in this game is). There are only two real problems I envision with this: how it would integrate with the current Splinter Cell/Far Cry-esque warning indicator, and how it would handle the larger distances MGSV sometimes deals with, especially vertical ones. I don't think either of these problems are very serious, and I don't think it's worth going into my ideas for solving them right now (if someone else wants to, go right ahead). This solution is still imperfect, since the whole idea of the Threat Ring is to be an approximation of the environment, not a perfect facsimile a la the Soliton Radar, but I think it would provide a very satisfactory experience when all is said and done. If anyone sees any big flaws in this idea, please point them out, and of course bring up totally different ideas for solving this if you have any! This is the single largest issue that looms over the game and its upcoming continuation. It needs a solution.

Now, let's talk about another rather fundamental problem that's sure to be a thorn in the side of any speedrunner, but also seriously impacts the experience of the average player, though they may never realize. Well, actually, I already talked about it when I described the basic behavior pattern of an undisturbed guard. It's that random idle behavior selection process, but applied to a different part of the fundamental player-system relationship. Not only do idle behaviors differ in audibility, they also differ in duration time (they also differ in how they shift the enemy's collision detection of course; having a guard avoid your carefully aimed tranquilizer round thanks to a random sneeze is both hilarious and frustrating--I'm pretty certain they have appropriately modeled sightfields too, but they don't shift dramatically in any case, so players will very rarely be affected by this). Since each idle point requires the guard to perform a certain number of idle behaviors, you'll rarely get the same exact timing for a patrol twice. In some cases, the impact of this detail is dramatic. While speedrunning, there was a particular point in my route (fairly early on, happily) where the placement of a certain guard would often force me to scrap the run entirely thanks to this random element putting him in a position where I couldn't approach, wasting several seconds. As small as this design choice seems, it arguably renders speedrunning pointless. At the very least, it turns it into even more of an exercise for masochists. Unpredictability may seem like a beneficial quality, especially in a game striving to be naturalistic, but this ultimately hurts far more than it helps. Luckily, solving this is simple: make every idle behavior take the same amount of time, down to the frame. I'm interested to hear arguments against this, since this involves a very fundamental ideological split. How deterministic does a game need to be to be satisfying, and how much non-determinism can be introduced without creating frustration? But that's a broader topic for another time.

Another major problem that I've seen covered elsewhere, but not in much detail, is the checkpoint system. Anyone reading this probably already knows, but loading a checkpoint places the player and all undisturbed enemies in set positions and states. It also conveniently keeps any vehicle you were using close, and repects the states of prisoners, among other things. All this, and the only balancing factor is a small score penalty. What you may not know is the full extent of how advantageous this is to the player. Checkpoints are constantly present in set zones on the map, and as long as you're not in alert status entering one of these zones activates the checkpoint. This allows players to make abrupt leaps forward in their routes when used cleverly, and puts them in perfectly predictable situations to boot. Abusing checkpoints is a staple of high level play in this game as a result. Personally, I never even thought of this while doing my own speed runs; I assumed the fact that the game counts time cumulatively with retries would balance this out, and perhaps so did the designers, but that was wrong. The upside of this is that the abuse of this system for competitive purposes is very easy to solve as long as Konami has the full metadata for every run. Simply create a separate leaderboard for those with no retries, and boom, problem solved. If they can, they should absolutely do this as soon as possible. However, for general purposes, the problems with checkpoints run even deeper. This zone/tripwire based system is very poor, but a full manual quicksave solution might be too lenient. The ability to balance a quicksave system would be very dependant on whether a scoring system is still present. I don't see it being there at all times, more likely it'll be isolated in a challenge mode of some sort, cut off from the full open world, if it's present at all. In that case, the use of quicksaves could be penalized just like checkpoints currently are in Ground Zeroes (with that additional piece I suggested earlier as well), but for open world play things get weird. Perhaps the very presence of a designated competitive mode would be enough, and the main game could just take a laissez faire approach. In any case, this is a very difficult problem, and serious thought needs to be put into it. Creating a good system for this will be one of The Phantom Pain's biggest challenges.

Ok, this is the last big paragraph, I promise. Let's talk about something that's less fundamental to the game, an ancillary, but still pretty general, concept. Vehicle stealth. I believe it needs to be rebuilt pretty much from the ground up. Currently, it operates on a very simplistic line of sight plus distance system, with the effective "camo index" temporarily lowering drastically when you crash into something or hit an enemy. This is already limiting enough, but there's a particular enemy behavior associated with vehicles that turns the whole thing into an embarassment. When you drive at an enemy and reach a certain distance from them when in their line of sight they'll dive out of the way. This cancels any investigation they were doing before they were interrupted, allowing you to pass by uninhibited. This behavior is on a hair trigger; as long as you're moving forward (and only forward--back up at the enemy and they'll ignore you!) toward the enemy at any speed when you're at the right distance and in their line of sight they'll perform it. It cannot be canceled and is quite long. And this is just the beginning. Once the enemy gets back up you'd think they'd call you out, or at least try to reestablish visual contact with you, but instead, they'll do a short (sometimes incredibly short, to the point that it seems cut off by some higher power) investigation in the direction they face as they stand, looking intently or shining their flashlight. This is massively abuseable, and it's a huge factor in how I achieved my first world record on the PS3 leaderboards, driving straight to the admin building right off the bat without a care. Vehicle stealth is a very complex problem and I'm certainly not qualified to offer a full solution from a technical perspective, but personally, I would love it if they tried to approach it in a very naturalistic manner, like much of the game. You'd follow roads and obey signs like required stops and speed limits (a speedometer would be nice to facilitate this). A horn could be a fantastic addition with various uses. "Playing chicken" with the guards would invoke serious suspicion. Crashing would draw attention with line of sight or within a certain audible radius, not magically make all enemies more aware regardless of their state. Perhaps this is too ambitious, but The Phantom Pain is daring to dream big, and so will I. This is all in reference to the covered truck and APC vehicle types, since the jeep has no stealth properties.

Phew. Now that I've covered what I see as the biggest problems the game has, let me mention a more minor one that still has a significant impact on the game's competitive side. Rocket launchers make big explosions. Getting a high enough rank on a mission makes a rocket launcher available right at the start of the mission for replays. You can probably see where this is going. Using the rocket launcher as a distraction is another big element of the fastest stealthy speed runs out there. It's another thing I never seriously used, though I tinkered with it. Watching someone who's mastered it is quite something. I don't think there's a way to fully eliminate this, but having explosives under heavy guard seems like common sense. I understand that the designers wanted to let players just mess around on replays, so I see why this was done, but I hope they restrict access in TPP.

After reading all that, I feel like people deserve some kind of reward, so here's a hot tip: tranquilizer shots make fantastic distractions. Shoot something metal or concrete and the enemy's attention will be drawn without them identifying it as gunfire, like all other weapons. This is actually the best way to deal with searchlight guards stealthily and non-lethally, and it makes the magazine obsolete in a lot of situations with its vastly superior range and ease of use. This is pretty easy to discover, but its uses are myriad. It's one of my favorite things in the game. If you already make use of this, congrats!

That's the end of part one. Apologies for the length, but I hope someone finds it interesting, and maybe it can spark some debate. Part two coming up.

 

[cackhyena]

Fuck the threat ring. I'm sorry, but this dude is kinda sounding like he wants every advantage despite all that's already given. Speed runners are tearing through these missions already. Is he looking to get it down to seconds rather than minutes?

I agree about the vehicle stealth. It's kinda wonky.

 

[Salaadin]

I have been spotted by enemies that I didn't know were there but that's exactly how I want it.

 

[jsnepo]

I have been spotted by enemies that I didn't know were there but that's exactly how I want it.

Same here. This at least makes the stop, observe, then move thing more beneficial just like it was in MGS3 vanilla.

 

[Ateron]

There are a few things I really don't like about GZ. The camera when you're crouching near an object, like a tent, for example. It gets so zoomed in, it's hard to see what's around the corner or in front of you.

That and the fact that I have to constantly change shoulders to make the camera focus on said corners, as it sometimes obstructs your vision. The game could adapt automatically according to which corner you're trying to peak from.

Maybe it's force of habit from playing BF, but I can't seem to compensate well enough for the bullet drop on the tranqs when I'm out of effective range and the crosshair is white.

It's a lot simpler in BF, where I can compensate easily, and from bigger distances too, but in GZ i always shoot what I like to call "a few warning shots" first lol.
I can't seem to judge distance. I always start compensating like I would in other games, what seems reasonable to me, then I miss and end up having to compensate way, way less than I thought. It's almost insignificant but it's not center crosshair either. Nothing that more training won't fix though.

The "get down" order is OP and they need to nerf that. The "call them" should have two options: they should leave it as it is now, and add another one where you would make the soldier report back to tell everything is okay. Maybe they could add some randomness to their actions - a soldier who refuses to surrender, another who - instead of calling back to say everything is okay- would flip and warn their superiors. This would keep you on your toes and stop you from abusing the same tactic over and over again.

Other than that, pretty happy with my purchase. Lots of replayability and content, the controls are tight and the performance is stellar. Like the direction they're taking the series. Having said that, fuck Sutherland. Not a deal breaker, but running through the game wondering how Hayter would have delivered BBs lines and how much better it would have sounded for me, makes me sad.

He's a good actor but in some of the lines he just seems tired, almost phoned in. He sounds like a normal guy, which by itself is not a bad thing, but in a game where almost every other character is so over the top he stands out in a strange way. I still can't understand their decision, piss off their fanbase (not all of it, but more than half surely), spend more money on VA for someone who doesn't know/doesn't care for the series, someone who might just not have the patience or time to reprise his roll in future installments. All for what? A big name on the cover/credits? Anyway, as long as TPP is as good as GZ is, mechanically, I will surely get it day one.

 

[fritzo]

Finally got 100%. S ranked the Intel Operative Rescue mission. You can shoot/kill the jeep drivers and it will not register as a kill. Ok so bring on TPP. Im guessing 2016, Novemberish.

 

[Rojo]

Finally got 100%. S ranked the Intel Operative Rescue mission. You can shoot/kill the jeep drivers and it will not register as a kill. Ok so bring on TPP. Im guessing 2016, Novemberish.

Really? damn kojima played me like a damn fiddle!

 

[Hurley]

Finally got 100%. S ranked the Intel Operative Rescue mission. You can shoot/kill the jeep drivers and it will not register as a kill. Ok so bring on TPP. Im guessing 2016, Novemberish.

Seriously?

Damn, I just raged quit out of that mission because I couldn't hit the guy in the truck with the stun pistol.

If only I had known.

 

[AuthenticM]

Finally got 100%. S ranked the Intel Operative Rescue mission. You can shoot/kill the jeep drivers and it will not register as a kill. Ok so bring on TPP. Im guessing 2016, Novemberish.

get the fuck outta here

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Fuck the threat ring. I'm sorry, but this dude is kinda sounding like he wants every advantage despite all that's already given. Speed runners are tearing through these missions already. Is he looking to get it down to seconds rather than minutes?

I agree about the vehicle stealth. It's kinda wonky.

I have been spotted by enemies that I didn't know were there but that's exactly how I want it.

Same here. This at least makes the stop, observe, then move thing more beneficial just like it was in MGS3 vanilla.

All of you seem to agree that the game gives you enough information at all times as it is. I'd encourage you to play some more and really think about whether this is the case. I'd be shocked if none of you ever had a situation where you were caught, thought it over and ended up believing that it wasn't your fault, even after the initial frustration had passed. I think this is a fundamental flaw.

Introducing the threat ring wouldn't stop you from being caught by enemies you didn't know were there, and stopping to observe would still be necessary. The need to have direct visual confirmation of enemies would be diminished, obviously, but far from eliminated. I believe this would be a fine compromise.

.

 

[abrack08]

just finished my first ghost run-through of the main ops using only magazines to distract guards... feels badass to know that there is no evidence of my presence... other than the fact that chico and paz are missing haha

And the abundance of empty magazines scattered all over the base, haha

 

[zerokoolpsx]

So I just noticed Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes is $19.99 on PSN, for the PS3 at least. Stealth sale price? I know its a demo. Worth it for the plunge?
Edit: Well, I'm stupid. It was always $19.99 for the digital version. >_>

 

[Zen]

i really love GZ, thanks Koji, i can't wait for the ludic Messiah TPP.
GZ is simply amazing, i get 93% in almost 22 hours, i can't image how hours of gameplay will take me to complete TPP, i think over 200.
thanks thanks and thanks again, god bless you everywhere u are.

The fact that TPP have all of that extra complexity not just from size, but also from a far greater amount of items, equipment, and secrets, is just mind blowing. GZ has such a (presumably) limited tool-set in comparison to what TPP will have, and there is so much meat to the experience.

 

[abrack08]

So I just noticed Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes is $19.99 on PSN, for the PS3 at least. Stealth sale price? I know its a demo. Worth it for the plunge?
Edit: Well, I'm stupid. It was always $19.99 for the digital version. >_>

If you will replay missions a few times (to S rank them or get collectibles) and/or try to 100% the game, yeah, it's totally worth it.

If you're just interested in one or two runs through the story and aren't an MGS super-fan, it's probably not worth it. You can really get as much content as you want out of it. A runthrough of the main mission seems to take 1-3 hours the first time depending on how slow you go (though it can be speedran in 5 minutes).

 

[Ermac]

Finally got 100%. S ranked the Intel Operative Rescue mission. You can shoot/kill the jeep drivers and it will not register as a kill. Ok so bring on TPP. Im guessing 2016, Novemberish.

Has anyone else confirmed this?

 

[valkyre]

Hello everyone newkid on the block here.

I will go right to the point: If MGS:GZ is indicative of what TPP is going to be then, we are in for a brilliant game IMHO. The gameplay evolution of the series is outstanding.

I have a few quirks here and there but all in all the game is going to the right direction.

The visuals, while amazing need some overhauling, especially some texture work and the collision detection thing needs to be addressed. Especially when you are laying on your back. Another issue is the pop in. It kinda is quite obvious and a lot of objects in the -not so far- distance pop.

I have a couple of questions though since looking them up on the internet hasnt provided any answers.

a) Do we know if weapon customization is going to return ala MGS4 (M4 especially)?
b) Has Kojima ever stated if TPP is going to get visual upgrades compared to GZ?
c) Is the 60 frames per second a guarantee for TPP? I am only asking because it is being said that TPP will have much much larger environments.
d) Do we know anything about the Outer Heaven base, where you are supposedly able to walk around in TPP? Any details what you can do?

Sorry for long post and questions, glad to be a part of this community

 

[KingT]

TPP is going to be one of the best game ever made. GZ shows that Konami is on the right track in evolving the series after the boring video game that was MGS 4 they have redeemed themselves. My only complaint with the game is the exclusive deal as I have the PS4 version I would like also to play the body snatchers side mission.

 

[Zen]

Hello everyone newkid on the block here.

I will go right to the point: If MGS:GZ is indicative of what TPP is going to be then, we are in for a brilliant game IMHO. The gameplay evolution of the series is outstanding.

I have a few quirks here and there but all in all the game is going to the right direction.

The visuals, while amazing need some overhauling, especially some texture work and the collision detection thing needs to be addressed. Especially when you are laying on your back. Another issue is the pop in. It kinda is quite obvious and a lot of objects in the -not so far- distance pop.

I have a couple of questions though since looking them up on the internet hasnt provided any answers.

a) No idea
b) I have not found anything but they will have time to further optimize the game, so I would not be surprised
c) I believe they have said 60FPS on PS4 and Xbox ONE for TPP.
d) No idea beyond what you already know

Sorry for long post and questions, glad to be a part of this community

welcome!

 

[Love Deterrence]

iPhone case!

 

[valkyre]

iPhone case!

Thats just awesome! Nerdy, but awesome nonetheless!

 

[Love Deterrence]

Thats just awesome! Nerdy, but awesome nonetheless!

:-D Right? I'd love to have one of those!! Hope it's a next-gen iDroid, as the current-gen iDroid takes just a little longer to access my tunes. ;-)

 

[Chairhome]

I tried to get Chico tape 7, I thought you just had to

Spoiler

extract the POW that was in Paz's cell during the Anti-Air mission

. I escaped with him and it didn't unlock anything. was i supposed to put him on the chopper by himself first or something like that?