it pisses me you can't swim, it makes no sense (given the level of detail the game has) other than PS3 limitations
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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
it pisses me you can't swim, it makes no sense (given the level of detail the game has) other than PS3 limitations
Love Deterrence
Member
Nah, but maybe we'll get more info on it next week as there's an FOB patch dropping on October 6th?
Berserker976
Member
Are you sure about the bolded?
In the credits scroll Big Boss is always referred to as "Big Boss," and Venom is referred to as "Big Boss' phantom." While it says that Solid Snake kills Big Boss' phantom in MG1, it says that Big Boss is the one that built Outer Heaven. So according to that, Big Boss built Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land. All Venom did was die in Outer Heaven.
PedroPanache
Member
The problem with Venom is that with all these answers up in the air, we automatically gravitate towards giving the real Big Boss all the important events that occurred in the series, such as mentoring Snake, rescuing Sniper Wolf etc. Big Medic is an empty vessel who carries no gravitas or weight in the series canon beyond his oddball tale in MGSV. Who really wants to believe that Venom Snake had the relationship with Solid or it was him who constantly put down Liquid. No, we want to attribute these events to Big Boss. It makes this twist, in the larger context of the series, even more unnecessary and redundant.
KingHenrik30
Member
Gurp Tacoma @swarthyvillain
Skull Face is my favorite MGS villain because his character is solely that he's very pissed off and concocts bad plans
Gurp Tacoma @swarthyvillain
@swarthyvillain skull face practiced his speech about language for big boss for 9 years and told it to the wrong person, who didn't care
Skull Face is my favorite MGS villain because his character is solely that he's very pissed off and concocts bad plans
Gurp Tacoma @swarthyvillain
@swarthyvillain skull face practiced his speech about language for big boss for 9 years and told it to the wrong person, who didn't care
Yeah that really is the old saying that gets trotted out to deflect any and all criticism. Even if there somehow is more content (which I sincerely doubt), there is still a fundamental problem when people have gotten 100%, like you said, and still not seen these alleged scenes and chapters. I'm all for secrets but this game is just unfinished, all this coy "well maaaaybe you'll see if you really really look for it" stuff is just a stalling technique.
Serpens007
Member
Remember that Big Boss lives under the medic's name until Big Boss returns to use that code when going back to foxhound. Then og BB needs to go back to the shadows since Solid Snake came back alive and knows there was "Big Boss" behind OH
KingHenrik30
Member
Would this be a reference to Solidus? "The Third Boy"
Mantis
This is the first MG I openly discuss in a forum, no complains here about MGS 1 - 4
Darkangel
Member
The ending text actually implies that the real Big Boss created both Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land. Venom was basically just the PR/fall guy.
That ALMOST makes the infamous jeep scene tolerable.
Ah of course, I remember him being referred to as that, my apologies!
Well fuck me, I only starting Chapter 2, figured it was in the credits since that is the consensus.
Maaaaaaaan such a lust for bullshit
The ending text actually implies that the real Big Boss created both Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land. Venom was basically just the PR/fall guy.
Diamond dogs invades OH in one of the trips of BB to the US. Problem solved guys!... Guys?
This is the first MG I openly discuss in a forum, no complains here about MGS 1 - 4
Not you, haha, the community in general.
KingHenrik30
Member
Hey, it's easy to get confused with this stuff haha
PedroPanache
Member
"You see, sacrifice, Big Medic - that's the price of a good trick" whispered Big Boss as the light in Big Medic's eyes faded into the bleak abyss. "Also, where the fuck did all these top hats come from?" added Big Boss.
Srey Plaughtered
Member
Well that is where things start getting confusing. Venom knew that there are two Big Bosses sometime during the Diamond Dogs era, during that tape scene you can see Diamond Dogs logo behind him and then there's a time jump in that scene itself to where the same logo turns to Outer Heaven. Which made me think Venom is the one who made Outer Heaven while Big Boss was making his Outer Heaven in Zanzibarland in secret without the world knowing.
But, you do see both logos only in the mirror and it's possible that the Outer Heaven Logo was just showing where things will end up eventually just like all the Blooded giant horn reflections which we never got to see.
The ending text actually implies that the real Big Boss created both Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land. Venom was basically just the PR/fall guy.
Man that is just ...
I won't buy it lol.
Yeh i got the idea, we cool
matrix-cat
Member
Maybe Ocelot just kind of turns Venom on and off with his magical plot device hypnotism powers. Like the real Big Boss sees that Venom's made a cool base and he wants to take credit for it, so Ocelot waves his pocketwatch back and forth and clicks Venom off for a while so BB can take his place. Starts up FOXHOUND, dads it up with a young Solid Snake, has a grand old time.
Later, after Outer Heaven is established and it becomes clear that Snake's going to run roughshod over the whole place, they wheel Venom out of cold storage. Ocelot turns him back on and bullshits some new memories into him to get him up to speed, and the real Big Boss skedaddles on a motorbike again, leaving that cassette tape behind to fuck with Venom's head moments before he dies just because he's an asshole. "I am you and you are me. btw I trained this stone cold motherfucker to be the greatest soldier in the world and he's coming for you, so have fun."
Later, after Outer Heaven is established and it becomes clear that Snake's going to run roughshod over the whole place, they wheel Venom out of cold storage. Ocelot turns him back on and bullshits some new memories into him to get him up to speed, and the real Big Boss skedaddles on a motorbike again, leaving that cassette tape behind to fuck with Venom's head moments before he dies just because he's an asshole. "I am you and you are me. btw I trained this stone cold motherfucker to be the greatest soldier in the world and he's coming for you, so have fun."
So hypothetically, what would Chapter 3 even be about, since so many are talking about it?
Honestly, at the end of Chapter 1 I was like "uuhm, so the central conflict is kind of resolved now. How can this continue?" and Chapter 2's actual story missions are pretty much just a series of closure for each supporting character's subplot.
And last but not least, I think people are wrong in that they think the missing Phantom Episode is "the real epilogue". I disagree. There's totally content from the game that was cut, but it wasn't the actual ending... it was the buildup to it.
As it is, and as was excellently pointed out in George "Bunnyhop" Weidman's analysis, mission 46 just... appears. There's no plot that leads into it. I'd say the missing story content from the game should've simply closed off the remainder of the character subplots (Eli, Miller and Ocelot) and then signified Snake reminiscing over his awakening that would lead the player to discover the twist.
The ending itself is just fine, and to me the meaning it has is that MGSV is honest about the fact that its main focus is letting the player have fun with the game. You know Kojima's been running out of ideas as he was constantly forced to keep making these games that he intended to conclude so long ago, and in that sense I found the ending to be amazing for this one. It neatly makes a statement about player agency and it explains why MGS V had so little interesting story in the first place, and the marketing about Snake's journey to the dark side was mostly a ploy akin to MGS2. This is the part where I don't share my opinion with George Weidman, as I think it's perfectly fine the way it is. It's only a shame we didn't get the actual chapter 2 that was intended, but the beginning, middle and end of this game's campaign is mostly intact.
Honestly, at the end of Chapter 1 I was like "uuhm, so the central conflict is kind of resolved now. How can this continue?" and Chapter 2's actual story missions are pretty much just a series of closure for each supporting character's subplot.
And last but not least, I think people are wrong in that they think the missing Phantom Episode is "the real epilogue". I disagree. There's totally content from the game that was cut, but it wasn't the actual ending... it was the buildup to it.
As it is, and as was excellently pointed out in George "Bunnyhop" Weidman's analysis, mission 46 just... appears. There's no plot that leads into it. I'd say the missing story content from the game should've simply closed off the remainder of the character subplots (Eli, Miller and Ocelot) and then signified Snake reminiscing over his awakening that would lead the player to discover the twist.
The ending itself is just fine, and to me the meaning it has is that MGSV is honest about the fact that its main focus is letting the player have fun with the game. You know Kojima's been running out of ideas as he was constantly forced to keep making these games that he intended to conclude so long ago, and in that sense I found the ending to be amazing for this one. It neatly makes a statement about player agency and it explains why MGS V had so little interesting story in the first place, and the marketing about Snake's journey to the dark side was mostly a ploy akin to MGS2. This is the part where I don't share my opinion with George Weidman, as I think it's perfectly fine the way it is. It's only a shame we didn't get the actual chapter 2 that was intended, but the beginning, middle and end of this game's campaign is mostly intact.
SolidusDave
Member
the whole ocean around MB looks pretty shitty.
Watch that cutscene with Quiet vs the Jet... man so bad. Thanks cross-gen?
While I guess I'm okay with it, I would totally be on board with the whole Big Medic thing if they would've done a scene like this with BB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdQ9jh5GvQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdQ9jh5GvQ8
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
"Are you watching closely? Because I'm not." - Kojima
PedroPanache
Member
"Now, you're looking for the secret. But you won't find it, because, of course, you're not really looking. You don't really want to work it out. You want to be... FOOLED." AKA Chapter 3
Berserker976
Member
I know Big Medic was hypnotized into thinking he was Big Boss, but it really seems like he is disconnected to so much shit because I think subconsciously he knows he really wasn't there for any of this crap.
Yeah, he was there for Paz, but I would have thought that Big Boss would have had a million and one questions for Skull Face who was allegedly "cleaning up after him" for Snake Eater.
Like hell, how much does Venom even talk about The Boss?
Yeah, he was there for Paz, but I would have thought that Big Boss would have had a million and one questions for Skull Face who was allegedly "cleaning up after him" for Snake Eater.
Like hell, how much does Venom even talk about The Boss?
matrix-cat
Member
The real reason Venom is so quiet is because the hypnotism didn't take and he spends every cutscene wondering who the hell all these people are and what they're all talking about. He's just too polite to bring it up.
TheBlueBomber
Member
Oh god, I may just pretend this is why and I may enjoy the game more again hahah
Srey Plaughtered
Member
Almost nothing, I was expecting Venom to say something when he saw the AI pod. At that time I thought Big Boss moved on but now we know he probably didn't feel any connection lol.
nice try, but we all know you ran out of a budget to actually make that thread
Berserker976
Member
I heard that in a few weeks NeoGAF is going to get an update that will make it possible to get into that spoiler thread if you post the right things in this one.
The ending text actually implies that the real Big Boss created both Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land. Venom was basically just the PR/fall guy.
The true ending of MGS5 has BB telling VS that they're both Big Boss now. This piece of text, when saying Big Boss, is referring to Venom Snake. That is why the end of it says Solid Snake killed the phantom.
FranXico
Member
The ending text actually implies that the real Big Boss created both Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land. Venom was basically just the PR/fall guy.
It's actually a very good way to show Big Boss' descent into villainy. He ended up doing to his most loyal soldier the very same thing the US government did to the Boss. The ultimate hypocrisy.
The story is flawed in countless ways, but this big twist actually works well.
7DollarHagane
Banned
I wonder if the story would be better received if it actually turned out that Grey Fox was the medic on the helicopter with Big Boss.
Grey Fox plays the same role as venom, but when solid snake fucks him up in outer heaven/MG1 he is rebuilt as the ninja in MG2, then when he gets extra fucked up he is rebuilt as the cyborg ninja in MGS.
I think it would have fit in well with the overall series canon and avoided having this random "medic" that we never heard of before. It would make sense for an older grey fox to be Big Boss's right hand man in the years after peace walker before ground zeroes.
Grey Fox plays the same role as venom, but when solid snake fucks him up in outer heaven/MG1 he is rebuilt as the ninja in MG2, then when he gets extra fucked up he is rebuilt as the cyborg ninja in MGS.
I think it would have fit in well with the overall series canon and avoided having this random "medic" that we never heard of before. It would make sense for an older grey fox to be Big Boss's right hand man in the years after peace walker before ground zeroes.
BizzyBum
Member
I just wanted to say even though there are many things wrong with the game and we seem to generally dislike it, I've put in 107 hours since launch. I don't play a bad game or a game I personally dislike for that long, and this is without touching FOBs and before MGO is released. I'm sure many of us are in the same boat, as well.
Srey Plaughtered
Member
Well it is not a random medic, it is You. The player. You're Big Boss, that's what Kojima wanted to convey with the whole thing I guess. So when Big Boss betrays you, it feels personal.
FranXico
Member
Well, I'm pretty sure I put more than 120 hours into it already (many unplanned long nights). I do like the game, and it still is the best Metal Gear game I ever played, despite its flaws. I even plugged in my PS3 and went back to Peace Walker, just play through the entire story arc from the beginning, and it plays nothing like TPP (although the PSP is primarily to blame for that), to the point that controls frustrate me to no end.
As much as I enjoy the story, gameplay mechanics and controls are the most important part of any game in my opinion. And TPP executes these with excellence.
MrJTeera
Member
I had a theory that Venom got tired of being BB's phantom and wanted to BB himself, that is why he staged a coup in Outer Heaven and expose to the world the existence of the place and that they have nuclear weapons.
Meanwhile, the Foxhound Commander BB sent in his best soldier, Gray Fox, to disrupt the coup and keep the low profile from Cipher, but he got captured. Events of Metal Gear plays out.
With his last breath, Venom declared himself Big Boss to Snake, BB and possibly other support team members who's listening, thus solidifying the image of evil Big Boss.
The real BB then went into hiding in Zanzibarland.
That's just my take anyway.
Meanwhile, the Foxhound Commander BB sent in his best soldier, Gray Fox, to disrupt the coup and keep the low profile from Cipher, but he got captured. Events of Metal Gear plays out.
With his last breath, Venom declared himself Big Boss to Snake, BB and possibly other support team members who's listening, thus solidifying the image of evil Big Boss.
The real BB then went into hiding in Zanzibarland.
That's just my take anyway.
There's a lot of disappointment for the story that you are misinterpreting as a dislike for the game as a whole.
What separates the Spoiler Thread from the OT is having completed and/or wanting to discuss the story, largely. As such the impressions within are more indicative of the opinions of the story of the game more than any other aspect.
7DollarHagane
Banned
That concept seems to be one of the key disappointments of the story for many people, though.
Instead of trying to go for this deeper meaning I think people might have been happier to have a character like Grey Fox integrated into the story.
People have been missing the point: Big Boss is now two people. The game states this very clearly. Venom and Naked Snake are now both Big Boss. So when the timeline says that Big Boss built Outer Heaven, it makes perfect sense that it was Venom Snake.
I also think it is pretty clear that Mother Base is what eventually becomes Outer Heaven.
I also think it is pretty clear that Mother Base is what eventually becomes Outer Heaven.
The issue with that is MG2 Big Boss (the real one) is more reprehensible than he was in MG1.
He's a maniac with a war fetish and no misgivings about using the deaths of children to further his agenda.
Venom didn't paint Big Boss as evil, he was.
Incorrect.
The game says that Big Boss was two people.
The credits right after explain that no, Big Boss and Big Boss' Phantom are considered to be two separate people who did separate and distinct things.
Venom Snake isn't Big Boss, he's Big Boss' body double.
GreyOcelot
Member
definitely never.
the only thing i want patched into the main game is either a story mode, or at least an ability to watch the cutscenes
KOMANI
KOMANI
especially considering that when employees or associates are asked who's your favorite MGS character? And they answer Gray Gox, because his story is so tragic, it becomes a missed opportunity. I would have liked an Apocalypse Now/Metal Gear story of Gray Fox sent out to kill Big Boss at OuterHeaven, but instead starts to worship him.
Corpsepyre
Banned
http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/metal-gear-solid-v-the-phantom-pain-8968/the-ultimate-ending-discussion-spoilers-1781915/
This article should be in the OP. Excellent stuff here that was linked in the previous OT. Great analysis.
This article should be in the OP. Excellent stuff here that was linked in the previous OT. Great analysis.