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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

S

Srey Plaughtered

Member
7DollarHagane said:
That concept seems to be one of the key disappointments of the story for many people, though.

Instead of trying to go for this deeper meaning I think people might have been happier to have a character like Grey Fox integrated into the story.
Click to expand...

Maybe. I don't know for sure though. I mean, by the end of MGSV Big Boss betrays you and Kaz by saying, 'well screw you guys I'm off to make my own nation. Who cares about your revenge, well I don't. Now go do my business for me and take care of XOF. Also by the way, thanks for everything, suckers.'

Wouldn't have worked just as well if it was someone else, not for me at least. Though I was expecting to see Grey Fox, Naomi, Raiden and Solidus in some shape or form in the game. :/
 
S

Spring-Loaded

Member
Srey Plaughtered said:
Maybe. I don't know for sure though. I mean, by the end of MGSV Big Boss betrays you and Kaz by saying, 'well screw you guys I'm off to make my own nation. Who cares about your revenge, well I don't. Now go do my business for me and take care of XOF. Also by the way, thanks for everything, suckers.'

Wouldn't have worked just as well if it was someone else, not for me at least. Though I was expecting to see Grey Fox, Naomi, Raiden and Solidus in some shape or form in the game. :/
Click to expand...
Yeah, it being a completely new character that was completely forgotten was more tragic and affecting than if it ended up being an existing and completely separate character to Big Boss.
 
P

PedroPanache

Member
Srey Plaughtered said:
Maybe. I don't know for sure though. I mean, by the end of MGSV Big Boss betrays you and Kaz by saying, 'well screw you guys I'm off to make my own nation. Who cares about your revenge, well I don't. Now go do my business for me and take care of XOF. Also by the way, thanks for everything, suckers.'

Wouldn't have worked just as well if it was someone else, not for me at least. Though I was expecting to see Grey Fox, Naomi, Raiden and Solidus in some shape or form in the game. :/
Click to expand...

I think plenty of people are open to the idea of such a twist, as the series revels in them. However, execution is key and this is as botched a twist as you'll ever see. We need a little more than "I need to do shit in secret" to buy into Big Boss' plan. It's such a huge betrayal in story terms that it needs more to sell it to the player. It also doesn't help that the botched open world that isn't quite an open world leads to a massive design flaw in how missions are accessed. Mission 46 just popping up isn't a good lead in for such a massive story moment.
 
A

Alienous

Member
An amnesiac Big Boss, 'born' as a military commander and twisted by the things he experiences in The Phantom Pain, would have done a better job at explaining his heel turn.

'Here's a dude whose only memories are of himself as a soldier, and whose only experiences are fighting a war'.

It's a little hokey, a little cheap, but not as much as a body double. Instead of trying to assert that the player is actually Big Boss, assert more simply that it is the player's actions, the playing going through The Phantom Pain and reaching its conclusion, that morphs Big Boss into the person he becomes in MG1 and MG2.
 
Darkangel

Darkangel

Member
Krabboss said:
The true ending of MGS5 has BB telling VS that they're both Big Boss now. This piece of text, when saying Big Boss, is referring to Venom Snake. That is why the end of it says Solid Snake killed the phantom.
Click to expand...

That would mean Venom was the one who rejoined FOXHOUND and trained Solid Snake. Solid Snake and Real Big Boss would have had absolutely no relationship up until the end of Metal Gear 2.

The fact that they differentiate between Big Boss and "Big Boss's Phantom" implies that Real Big Boss built Outer Heaven.
 
C

CHC

Member
Chinner said:
sorry guys, this thread is actually a bodydouble of the REAL spoiler thread. the real spoiler thread is where the real action is going on, but its not here and you won't be able to read it.

sorry.
Click to expand...

Just keep posting in this one guys, it'll eventually lead to the real one.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
So I was eating breakfast with Kojima-san the other day — such a nice guy, but he kept offering me fish and cigarettes, which I politely declined — when he told me his ideas for MGS6, which he'll make by infiltrating the ranks of Konami with his phantom.

In MGS6, we learn that it wasn't Big Boss' phantom that died in MG1, but the phantom of Big Boss' phantom, made by Venom. This then allowed the real Venom to track down the exiled Quiet in the desert. He did this after Code Talker revealed to him that the secret way to cure Quiet's parasites is, to quote Code Talker, "...a good dicking." However, this will result in a monstrous sex addiction that, if not fulfilled 10 times a day, will cause Quiet to explode with the force of a million nuclear bombs. This would disperse the parasites into the earth's atmosphere and destroy all life on earth.

Venom thinks about it for a moment. "It's a risk I'm willing to take," he concludes.

And so he proceeds with the plan. However, Quiet eventually becomes pregnant with Venom's children. This leads to the births of the three sons of Venom: Batman, Goku and Shrek. Their story will be told in Metal Gear Rising 3: The Search for Metal Gear Rising 2.

"You're a goddamn genius," I told Kojima while dipping French toast sticks in syrup. "You rike it," he asked, mashing up cigarettes and sprinkling them on fish.

It's going to be amazing.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
I want to do side op 150/mission 45 to complete the story, but I don't want to lose Quiet if I need her for S-ranking any of the remaining missions. Are there any missions where she is necessary to get an S-rank or complete all objectives?

I usually use D-Dawg so I don't mind losing Quiet if I don't really need her.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Frank the Great said:
I want to do side op 150/mission 45 to complete the story, but I don't want to lose Quiet if I need her for S-ranking any of the remaining missions. Are there any missions where she is necessary to get an S-rank or complete all objectives?

I usually use D-Dawg so I don't mind losing Quiet if I don't really need her.
Click to expand...
Take a USB stick. Copy your current save. Create a folder on your computer. Paste the save there. Now play side op 150 and M45. When you've had your fill, replace the file with the original file so that you have Quiet back. :)

Unless you absolutely have to have 100% listed on your completion. But I'd prefer to have 100% of the experience + Quiet than 100% completion without Quiet.
 
S

Srey Plaughtered

Member
Spring-Loaded said:
Yeah, it being a completely new character that was completely forgotten was more tragic and affecting than if it ended up being an existing and completely separate character to Big Boss.
Click to expand...

PedroPanache said:
I think plenty of people are open to the idea of such a twist, as the series revels in them. However, execution is key and this is as botched a twist as you'll ever see. We need a little more than "I need to do shit in secret" to buy into Big Boss' plan. It's such a huge betrayal in story terms that it needs more to sell it to the player. It also doesn't help that the botched open world that isn't quite an open world leads to a massive design flaw in how missions are accessed. Mission 46 just popping up isn't a good lead in for such a massive story moment.
Click to expand...

I agree that the execution could've been done better but the concept was something new and interesting and for that I'll give credit where credit's due. As for Mission 46 itself, it could've just been a set of cutscenes, maybe from Ishmael's point of view right before Venom wakes up and then a montage of them escaping which leads into the final bit we saw with Ocelot and Big Boss.
 
S

Scizzy

Member
Frank the Great said:
I want to do side op 150/mission 45 to complete the story, but I don't want to lose Quiet if I need her for S-ranking any of the remaining missions. Are there any missions where she is necessary to get an S-rank or complete all objectives?

I usually use D-Dawg so I don't mind losing Quiet if I don't really need her.
Click to expand...

Generally, D Horse is the most useful for S ranking missions because he can cut so much time off travel. I S ranked everything without using Quiet at all besides to build up her bond. I haven't done the objectives, so I can't speak to that.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
Scizzy said:
Generally, D Horse is the most useful for S ranking missions because he can cut so much time off travel. I S ranked everything without using Quiet at all besides to build up her bond. I haven't done the objectives, so I can't speak to that.
Click to expand...
Couldn't you just drop a vehicle and get the same thing and still have a buddy slot?
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
SJRB said:
NOPE

"The ocelot's aim is off today. Secret meeting behind containers. Don't trust Kazuhira" or whatever he says before he peaces out in his magic wheelchair. None of that is explained or referenced ever again.
Click to expand...

My theory, which I was sad that it ended up not true was that Miller was responsible for everything and was using Huey as a scapegoat.

I mean all of Huey's "betrayals" come to light with no evidence (until the AI pod recording but that's still vague) from Miller who makes up these stories that all paint Huey as the worst guy in the world and Huey always denies them until the very end. It would make so much sense if Miller had been running experiments for Cipher or something and would then turn around and accuse Huey to take the heat off him. His hard on for REVENGE AGAINST CIPHER could have also been a ploy to hide his true intentions. That's what I thought Code Talker was warning BB about. I never trusted Miller in this game, he always seemed off.

But then nothing came of it which sucks :\
 
A

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Bebpo said:
My theory, which I was sad that it ended up not true was that Miller was responsible for everything and was using Huey as a scapegoat.

I mean all of Huey's "betrayals" come to light with no evidence (until the AI pod recording but that's still vague) from Miller who makes up these stories that all paint Huey as the worst guy in the world and Huey always denies them until the very end. It would make so much sense if Miller had been running experiments for Cipher or something and would then turn around and accuse Huey to take the heat off him. His hard on for REVENGE AGAINST CIPHER could have also been a ploy to hide his true intentions. That's what I thought Code Talker was warning BB about. I never trusted Miller in this game, he always seemed off.

But then nothing came of it which sucks :
Click to expand...

Code Talker might have just been alluding to miller's eventual betrayal of Boss by training his killer.
 
G

GodzillaDB

Member
ahoyhoy said:
Code Talker might have just been alluding to miller's eventual betrayal of Boss by training his killer.
Click to expand...
I briefly considered the possibility that the Code Talker scene might be a hint about the epilogue discussion having already taken place. It would mean Ocelot and Miller are aware of Venom's identity while he's still left in the dark.
 
J

Johndoey

Banned
The Venom twist and his role in Metal Gear 1 makes Metal Gear 2 make less sense. Where was Miller and what was he doing when the shit from the first Metal Gear was going down? The new twist means Snake got sent in on semi-legitimate grounds and not just Big Boss tom-fuckery, but then which Big Boss was fucking with him over the radio. The action at that point doesn't benefit the real Big Boss or Venom.

Edit: I read the wiki article on it and the plan between Venom and Big Boss is flaw as fuck man, shit makes no sense.
 
S

Srey Plaughtered

Member
GodzillaDB said:
I briefly considered the possibility that the Code Talker scene might be a hint about the epilogue discussion having already taken place. It would mean Ocelot and Miller are aware of Venom's identity while he's still left in the dark.
Click to expand...

Ocelot and Miller were aware of Venom's Identity before Venom even woke up though.
 
J

Javier23

Banned
Alienous said:
Incorrect.
Click to expand...
3s3k1d.jpg


Let's agree to disagree.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Srey Plaughtered said:
Ocelot and Miller were aware of Venom's Identity before Venom even woke up though.
Click to expand...

Are we sure on Miller though ?
I think the epilogue takes place after the skull face story ends cause BB is still in the hospital and hasn't exactly left off to create his outer heaven until after venom wakes up, no way they (Ocelot and Miller) would have that informed of a discussion that early in the timeline.
 
BiGBoSSMk23

BiGBoSSMk23

A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
I would have liked the twist if Big Boss was there the whole time alongside Venom, pretending to be another soldier at DD. Making sure he succeeded.

This way it seems to me that Big Boss never gave a flying shit about Mother Base getting bombed in GZ.

Also, since when was Metal Gear about having support there for you everywhere, and having a fucking army to back you up?

When have the villains in an MGS game waited around to execute their plans while the one guy that can foil them builds his R&D team so he can advance the plot?

Seriously. Where's the urgency? Where's the man on a mission intensity of past MGS games?

This game would have to be completely redone /rearranged plot-wise in order to be good. Lol
 
F

Furyous

Member
I spent three days working on a mission only to find out that I don't even need to face the boss battle. Apparently it's possible to skip the entire thing by heading straight for the goal.... Well, I take back every negative thing I've said about level design.
 
G

GodzillaDB

Member
Johndoey said:
The Venom twist and his role in Metal Gear 1 makes Metal Gear 2 make less sense. Where was Miller and what was he doing when the shit from the first Metal Gear was going down? The new twist means Snake got sent in on semi-legitimate grounds and not just Big Boss tom-fuckery, but then which Big Boss was fucking with him over the radio. The action at that point doesn't benefit the real Big Boss or Venom.
Click to expand...
Miller was still working for FOXHOUND alongside the legitimate Big Boss around the time of the original Metal Gear title. It hasn't been explained how their reconciliation comes about into working underneath Ciper/The Patriots in the 1990s. I've tried to rationalize that Big Boss went back into the ranks to draw attention away from his efforts in building Outer Heaven/Zanzibar Land and monitor the success of one clone, Solid Snake. Miller might've still held a grudge over the betrayal and returned to the government just to personally train a young Solid Snake in the hopes of him someday putting down the legendary soldier. What doesn't make sense in my perspective concerns the actions of Outer Heaven Uprising, particularly sending Gray Fox into the battleground and the motivations of Big Boss/Venom Snake. I'm guessing Gray Fox must've been involved on the ruse and his capture was the necessary motivation to send the rookie Snake to his death. However, I don't understand how Venom Snake was still able to hide the identity of his command over the fortress under the "Big Boss" moniker while the real one was openly the commanding officer in the United States. it would've been much more interesting if Venom Snake was rebelling against the notion of being the fall guy in the doppelganger scheme and his desire to call himself B.B. was driven by his belief that he was the true successor to the title after all he had done for the mercenary world. Just my two cents, I suppose.
 
S

Srey Plaughtered

Member
chandoog said:
Are we sure on Miller though ?
I think the epilogue takes place after the skull face story ends cause BB is still in the hospital and hasn't exactly left off to create his outer heaven until after venom wakes up, no way they (Ocelot and Miller) would have that informed of a discussion that early in the timeline.
Click to expand...

The stinger discussion must've had happened before Ocelot went through Self Hypnosis and started believing that Venom was the real Big Boss, which is why I think Miller knew. Its either before Venom woke up or just sometime after Miller was rescued.
 
L

Legendary---

Banned
The 'meeting between two containers' might be a translation error.

The original Japanese transcript uses a word that has multiple meanings, such as 'bodies' or 'groups', along with 'container' I think.

So if you put that into context of the after credits talk between Ocelot/Miller; between two 'bodies' or maybe 'alliance'(?) Code Talker probably was talking about that
 
G

GodzillaDB

Member
Srey Plaughtered said:
Ocelot and Miller were aware of Venom's Identity before Venom even woke up though.
Click to expand...
Ocelot was aware of the game plan, but he placed himself under hypnosis into believing Venom Snake was the real deal in the events of Phantom Pain. Unless I'm mistaken, Zero never informed Miller directly about the doppelganger stuff in the "truth" tapes. He simply informed him that someday Big Boss would awaken and preparations should be in motion to assist him when that time comes.
 
E

ElFly

Member
Code Talker is talking about how Kaz is embezzling Diamond Dogs money to fund McDonell's burgers.

ahoyhoy said:
Code Talker might have just been alluding to miller's eventual betrayal of Boss by training his killer.
Click to expand...

But Venom won't be the one killed by someone trained by Miller; Miller only joins Foxhound after Big Boss leaves because he was discovered as the bad guy from Outer Heaven, and only trains Solid at that time.
 
S

Srey Plaughtered

Member
GodzillaDB said:
Ocelot was aware of the game plan, but he placed himself under hypnosis into believing Venom Snake was the real deal in the events of Phantom Pain. Unless I'm mistaken, Zero never informed Miller directly about the doppelganger stuff in the "truth" tapes. He simply informed him that someday Big Boss would awaken and preparations should be in motion to assist him when that time comes.
Click to expand...

You're right about Zero never telling Miller the truth, he just says that Snake will wake up and he'll need you by his side etc. Zero does tell Miller to co operate with Ocelot and those events happened before even Big Boss woke up. The few times that Ocelot could've talked about it was before Venom woke up / after miller was rescued, after which he would've had to go self hypnosis. If you tranq him during Mission 2 on Motherbase he even utters 2+2=5, the talk must've happened before that.

MattyG said:
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but it's kind of cool.



https://twitter.com/HEITAIs/status/648095219909423104
Click to expand...

That's pretty cool.
 
E

ElFly

Member
The idea of Miller incriminating Huey has some merit, but it must have died early, when Kojima realized that he'd have to change a metric ton of radio dialog if it ended with Miller being kicked out of Diamond Dogs.
 
J

JayEH

Junior Member
Rapier said:
I would have liked the twist if Big Boss was there the whole time alongside Venom, pretending to be another soldier at DD. Making sure he succeeded.

This way it seems to me that Big Boss never gave a flying shit about Mother Base getting bombed in GZ.

Also, since when was Metal Gear about having support there for you everywhere, and having a fucking army to back you up?

When have the villains in an MGS game waited around to execute their plans while the one guy that can foil them builds his R&D team so he can advance the plot?

Seriously. Where's the urgency? Where's the man on a mission intensity of past MGS games?

This game would have to be completely redone /rearranged plot-wise in order to be good. Lol
Click to expand...

I never thought about making Big Boss a random soldier. That's actually a great idea. He could be sort of like the Pliskin of TPP.

Big Boss should have played a bigger role in this game. Should have been playable for a few missions, shows up and kills Venom at the end. Idk something.

MattyG said:
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but it's kind of cool.



https://twitter.com/HEITAIs/status/648095219909423104
Click to expand...

Wow awesome.
 
KOMANI

KOMANI

KOMANI
Neiteio said:
So I was eating breakfast with Kojima-san the other day — such a nice guy, but he kept offering me fish and cigarettes, which I politely declined — when he told me his ideas for MGS6, which he'll make by infiltrating the ranks of Konami with his phantom.

In MGS6, we learn that it wasn't Big Boss' phantom that died in MG1, but the phantom of Big Boss' phantom, made by Venom. This then allowed the real Venom to track down the exiled Quiet in the desert. He did this after Code Talker revealed to him that the secret way to cure Quiet's parasites is, to quote Code Talker, "...a good dicking." However, this will result in a monstrous sex addiction that, if not fulfilled 10 times a day, will cause Quiet to explode with the force of a million nuclear bombs. This would disperse the parasites into the earth's atmosphere and destroy all life on earth.

Venom thinks about it for a moment. "It's a risk I'm willing to take," he concludes.

And so he proceeds with the plan. However, Quiet eventually becomes pregnant with Venom's children. This leads to the births of the three sons of Venom: Batman, Goku and Shrek. Their story will be told in Metal Gear Rising 3: The Search for Metal Gear Rising 2.

"You're a goddamn genius," I told Kojima while dipping French toast sticks in syrup. "You rike it," he asked, mashing up cigarettes and sprinkling them on fish.

It's going to be amazing.
Click to expand...
I think you should have ordered the omelette.
SEMEN
 
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