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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
Lowest of the low. He knew exactly what people would think when he put that shot in. He even added fuel to the fire by adding the Les Enfants Terribles line.
Berserker976
Member
Wow... he even spoiled some of the most important conversations. That "Les Enfants" line was from one of the Truth tapes, and he spoiled a large part of Skull Face's jeep speech. We also hear Zero in one of the trailers, which means more content from the Truth tapes.
SJRB
Gold Member
Made is seem that Zero was going to be a big [or relevant] part of the game. Everything revolving Zero, Les Enfants Terribles, Outer Heaven was swept under the carpet.
"OMG such a master ruseman that Kojima, mad respect yo he tricked us all"
Ground Zeroes is actually better off without fultons and shields and whatnot -- in fact, that's what makes it better playing. Everything has much more weight because you're fenced in and can't make everything disappear into the sky.
I'll take that dive-roll off high ledges, though, thank you.
That's what I was thinking of. I don't want all these pointless guns and shit. I see no reason to change my tranq gun and silenced assault rifle. But I can't speak for everyone. Ground Zeroes is a lot more simple and in return feels a lot more streamlined. Something that Kojima didn't intentionally design.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Well you just blew my mind. I'll forgive Kojima if he does provide at least something after the fact. It doesn't work if he just puts out a game with an abrupt ending with missing content and then just never address it.
matrix-cat
Member
The way the trailers so expertly pushed our buttons shows that Kojima knows what we want out of our Metal Gear games. The game itself shows that he just isn't interested in giving it to us 
I mean, I'd prefer the unsullied fruit of Kojima's mind to him just trying to make us all happy with a game he doesn't really want to make. His unwillingness to cave in to fan desire and make standard sequels resulted in some of my favourite games ever. "Oh, you want another Solid Snake adventure? lol, suck my dick you're getting Raiden and a few years from now you'll be thanking me for it". "You want answers about The Patriots? You're getting '60s jungle stealth instead and you're gonna love it, pussies".
Still, though, I wouldn't have complained if he wanted to sprinkle a little fanservice into the middle of the game, rather than having it all just be some cassette tapes you unlock fifty hours in when the credits have rolled for a second time.
I mean, I'd prefer the unsullied fruit of Kojima's mind to him just trying to make us all happy with a game he doesn't really want to make. His unwillingness to cave in to fan desire and make standard sequels resulted in some of my favourite games ever. "Oh, you want another Solid Snake adventure? lol, suck my dick you're getting Raiden and a few years from now you'll be thanking me for it". "You want answers about The Patriots? You're getting '60s jungle stealth instead and you're gonna love it, pussies".
Still, though, I wouldn't have complained if he wanted to sprinkle a little fanservice into the middle of the game, rather than having it all just be some cassette tapes you unlock fifty hours in when the credits have rolled for a second time.
Alex_Mexico
Member
What Eli double scene? Can you elaborate? I can't remember.
The scene where Eli is in the helicopter after Skullface and Venom go to Metal Gear S. It shows him and another version of him but it's actually just Mantis letting him take over for all that lust. Last mission before chapter 2.
At the end of the E3 2015 trailer, Kojima purposely adds that scene at the end and cuts it before it shows Mantis with the quote "Les Enfants Terribles." Obviously hinting that Solid would be in the game.
It's what fans are hoping for. Not outright given to us but the final clue in order to unlock it. Not going to happen but deep down I can't say I don't want it to happen.
PedroPanache
Member
Haha...what a crock of shit. I wasn't too bothered that Solid wasn't in the game, I had hoped, but I distanced myself from that fantasy that the second half or closing chapter of the game would be Snake infiltrating Outer Heaven. Too perfect. So, don't believe the hype. That trailer, though, is a piece of work. I'd be pissed off if I'd watched that waiting for Solid to appear at some point.
It occurs to when you strip away the spectacle and the lore, which MGSV does to a large degree, you're left with just the writing. I'm sure Troy Baker would never come out and say this, perhaps a few years down the line he might reveal something, but I bet his heart just sank as he read through the pages and pages of the characterless musings of Ocelot and realised that he'd been sold a dud. I knew we where in trouble when I listened to the Shabashasalaka tape. An anecdotes for the ages. Better than valium.
When the dust settles on all this, we'll still all be just as confused as we were in the aftermath, wondering what the hell happened to the story and how the gameplay could be so tight and nailed on whilst the story became a mess of half-realised ideas and squandered potential. Strangest game I ever loved/hated/loved all at the same time.
In the Russian version of the game "Race" is translated as if it is an arms race or a car race ("Гонка"), not as a group of people ("Раса"). I'm pretty sure that the localization teams are aware of the context.
plus, theyre likely working directly from the JP version, and there is no way you'd confuse the different meanings of race because theyre not homonyms in japanese
Berserker976
Member
Man, it's a real bummer those awesome trailer songs didn't make it into the game, I'd even take them in cassette form. Not Your Kind of People, Elegia, Nuclear... would have been cool to have them in the main game.
Dick Justice
Banned
Got worked by Ocelot, and then had his remains get thrown into a fire by the bisexual faux-vampire. Solidus is the definition of overhype.
I was hoping that Ocelot was a body double too. Like "Wild" Bill Donahan, a wealthy cattle rancher, got bored of his day to day life and went on an exotic hunting expedition. He then got embroiled in all this shit and just went along with it.
It's the only satisfying explanation for why one of the most cunning and enigmatic video game villains of all time became, well, whatever the hell this is.
It's the only satisfying explanation for why one of the most cunning and enigmatic video game villains of all time became, well, whatever the hell this is.
Berserker976
Member
Got worked by Ocelot, and then had his remains get thrown into a fire by the bisexual faux-vampire. Solidus is the definition of overhype.
Solidus set Shadow Moses in motion to get his hands on Rex's data, he played everyone in MGS1. While, I might add, being the president of the United States.
Then, he started the Big Shell Incident, where he kidnapped the current president and convinced Dead Cell to help him take over Arsenal Gear, all the while using them since he was actually after The Patriots. After everything goes to shit he still manages to prove how superior he is by absolutely wasting a group of Rays. He then survives a giant battleship crashing into New York and has an epic duel to the death with his son.
So he got double crossed by Ocelot -- that's like a rite of passage in the series.
Also, the Solidus that dies in MGS4 is Solidus' phantom, the real Solidus is busy building the Super Patriots....
Neil Druckmann talking about 'What makes a good ending', based on a book by Robert McKee:
"A good ending is a payoff. The entire story is setting up this final message, and it ties it all together and it gives you a sense of closure.
And if things are left dangling they're left dangling for a reason. Not to set up a sequel, but they're left dangling to raise interesting questions about the theme of what it is you just experienced.
The other thing is that an ending needs to be, on one hand, surprising, and yet, in hindsight, inevitable. When you look back at it, it should seem really obvious that everything led to that point, and yet when it happens you should not be able to guess exactly how things are going to play out."
KOJIMA!!!
"A good ending is a payoff. The entire story is setting up this final message, and it ties it all together and it gives you a sense of closure.
And if things are left dangling they're left dangling for a reason. Not to set up a sequel, but they're left dangling to raise interesting questions about the theme of what it is you just experienced.
The other thing is that an ending needs to be, on one hand, surprising, and yet, in hindsight, inevitable. When you look back at it, it should seem really obvious that everything led to that point, and yet when it happens you should not be able to guess exactly how things are going to play out."
KOJIMA!!!
SJRB
Gold Member
Got worked by Ocelot, and then had his remains get thrown into a fire by the bisexual faux-vampire. Solidus is the definition of overhype.
This was a legendary MGS4 item unlock called "Big Boss mask". Remember that shit? Man that was so cool. I was so psyched when I saw I unlocked it, not knowing what it looked like.
..maximum trolling. How can you not loathe someone who does this?
PedroPanache
Member
Got worked by Ocelot, and then had his remains get thrown into a fire by the bisexual faux-vampire. Solidus is the definition of overhype.
I like how he's tentatively raising his hand, as if to ask the question "Errr.....guys. Seriously, guys. WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO MY FACE?"
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
Exactly my sentiments. I'm troubled by the attitude that creators owe something to their fans. Liking something or not liking something is fine, but no one should be shackled to the expectations of their audience. In fact, Kojima is one of the very, very few people outside of the indie space that doesn't feel like he's at the mercy a producer whispering statistics and trends into his ear (probably not good for his career with Konami).The way the trailers so expertly pushed our buttons shows that Kojima knows what we want out of our Metal Gear games. The game itself shows that he just isn't interested in giving it to us
I mean, I'd prefer the unsullied fruit of Kojima's mind to him just trying to make us all happy with a game he doesn't really want to make. His unwillingness to cave in to fan desire and make standard sequels resulted in some of my favourite games ever. "Oh, you want another Solid Snake adventure? lol, suck my dick you're getting Raiden and a few years from now you'll be thanking me for it". "You want answers about The Patriots? You're getting '60s jungle stealth instead and you're gonna love it, pussies".
Still, though, I wouldn't have complained if he wanted to sprinkle a little fanservice into the middle of the game, rather than having it all just be some cassette tapes you unlock fifty hours in when the credits have rolled for a second time.
That ends up being for better and worse, sure, but I prefer it to the alternative.
"Question: how much exfoliator is too much exfoliator?"
Dick Justice
Banned
This alone would justify a pc port, so modders could correct this shit.
Dick Justice
Banned
Solidus set Shadow Moses in motion to get his hands on Rex's data, he played everyone in MGS1. While, I might add, being the president of the United States.
Then, he started the Big Shell Incident, where he kidnapped the current president and convinced Dead Cell to help him take over Arsenal Gear, all the while using them since he was actually after The Patriots. After everything goes to shit he still manages to prove how superior he is by absolutely wasting a group of Rays. He then survives a giant battleship crashing into New York and has an epic duel to the death with his son.
So he got double crossed by Ocelot -- that's like a rite of passage in the series.
Also, the Solidus that dies in MGS4 is Solidus' phantom, the real Solidus is busy building the Super Patriots....
All staged...by THE PATRIOTS.
PedroPanache
Member
Solidus set Shadow Moses in motion to get his hands on Rex's data, he played everyone in MGS1. While, I might add, being the president of the United States.
Then, he started the Big Shell Incident, where he kidnapped the current president and convinced Dead Cell to help him take over Arsenal Gear, all the while using them since he was actually after The Patriots. After everything goes to shit he still manages to prove how superior he is by absolutely wasting a group of Rays. He then survives a giant battleship crashing into New York and has an epic duel to the death with his son.
So he got double crossed by Ocelot -- that's like a rite of passage in the series.
Also, the Solidus that dies in MGS4 is Solidus' phantom, the real Solidus is busy building the Super Patriots....
Solidus comes out of the series a fucking hero in retrospect. "Hey, you do realise your weird, goofy AI is fucked, right? We should fix that and maybe not let the machines rule the world; that's a good idea, right?" said Solidus.
But, no, stupid Jack had to go and kill him for .... I don't know? ..... reasons? Sure, Solidus killed Raiden's parents just to get an erection or something, but, still, HE TOTALLY CALLED THE INSANE AI MACHINE. You know, the one the goofy team from MGS3 built. I salute you, Solidus. You were a good man. Mostly. I tried not to kill you, but I had to. I wanted to see the ending.
Dick Justice
Banned
Solidus was an idiot with stupid tentacles, was dumb enough to get injured in the wrong eye, and wanted to see America taken back to the dark ages. Even Venom was a better Snake.
The one featured at the beginning of the following video could have been only a provisional one shown for illustrative purposes, but represents exactly the original intention as mentioned by Alienous:
Metal Gear Solid 2 (PS2)(Trailer) 1999 Konami Internal MGS2 Demo V2 - YouTube
https://youtu.be/0dRZTXFDWB8?t=5
This video document was originally included in the bonus DVD from the first release of MGS2, for its 'PAL region' version.
Berserker976
Member
If we're going to start discounting everyone that was manipulated by The Patriots at some point we're not going to have very many characters left.
At least Solidus successfully pissed them off by doing Shadow Moses. And, he was the first one to recognize that The Patriots needed killing. Although, when Solidus tries to actually do it he's labelled an insane megalomaniac, but then when Sunny actually succeeds she's the greatest hero. Double standards much?
I'm ok with this; however fuck Kojnami and the marketing.
Dick Justice
Banned
Call me back when Sunny murders people and steals their kids and turns them into child soldiers, and deliberately tries to send America back to the dark ages.
Also Ocelot was canonically the first to realise that they needed killing ;p
MGR2 had so much potential...
Shin Kojima
Banned
Huh, pretty cool.
It seems like he wanted to pull his V mirrored exclamation point trick earlier, maybe with the III standing for Solid, Liquid and Solidus.
PedroPanache
Member
Speaking of Solidus, how exactly does a news channel report the death of a president dressed in full-on body armour with tentacles and a warrior sword. "Over to Ted at the scene" probably doesn't quite cut it.
Berserker976
Member
Well, for all we know she might eventually do something like that.
But regardless, I'm not arguing Solidus is the best person in the world, all I'm saying is that he had two katanas named Democrat and Republican, and that's pretty cool.
SolidusDave
Member
He also did all the scheming by himself. No group effort nor the need to hypnotize himself or whatever.
He was even sabotaged by the other guy who planned to take down the patriots.
I still don't understand why we don't have an twenties-something looking 10 year old Solidus in MGSV! He wasn't even mentioned in the timeline
Stereogatari
Banned
With previous MGS games it wasn't as bad as this though.
Shin Kojima
Banned
Lol. I'd nudge the person next to me and proudly say: "I voted for that guy."
Looking at how surreal the ending of MGS2 was, with the general public completely apathetic to Arsenal Gear taking out half of New York, it'd fit in universe for Solidus' presence to be covered up entirely, with an account of his death by natural causes circulated when it became convenient.
I still don't understand why we don't have an twenties-something looking 10 year old Solidus in MGSV! He wasn't even mentioned in the timeline
That's because the medic died in GZ, and Venom is actually Solidus hypnotised to believe he's the Medic hypnotised to believe he's Big Boss. The Big Boss seen in MG1 was the actual Big Boss, hypnotised into believing that he was Solidus hypnotised to act as the Medic hypnotised to become Big Boss.
matrix-cat
Member
I still believe. After Kojima's mismanagement of MGSV, signing a deal with Platinum should be an easy win for Konami. They've got the Metal Gear IP but nobody to make a new game, and Platinum is the reigning champion of signing contracts, meeting deadlines and delivering awesome games on time and under budget. Platinum doesn't know the meaning of the word 'delay'. Revengeance sold really well, Revengeance 2's a no-brainer.
Just think: flashbacks to Raiden's Jack the Ripper days with ol' George-y boy, Blade Wolf fighting alongside you in gameplay, the return of Jetstream Sam who's been rebuilt with cyborg parts and wants his sword back, a final bossfight against a Robo-Solidus whose consciousness has been resurrected via nanomachines son with two swords and eight tentacles that are all constantly firing missiles. It has to be this way.
Right, it seems like it would be a smart move for Konami to contract Platinum for MGR2.
I could imagine Platinum having a loyalty to Kojima, due to him being the person who chose Platinum for MGR1, and declining to make a sequel, though.
MrRudiMentary
Member
Nah, that's not true. "Les Enfants Terribles, Zero called it" is a line from one of the very earliest tapes in the game. I think it was one of the 9 years tapes with Ocelot and Venom.
SJRB
Gold Member
Well it would make him the most badass president ever, for starters.
SOLIDUS WAS RIGHT