As much as i'm bitching about this, too be honest no one ever gave two fucks about Chico at any point and while he did put some good work in it wasn't as a soldier.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
As much as i'm bitching about this, too be honest no one ever gave two fucks about Chico at any point and while he did put some good work in it wasn't as a soldier.
Yeah, Chico died. He became an angel, where he follows in the footsteps of his wise female mentor, got himself a look-alike Phantom, and leads the forces of a place called something-something Heaven or something-something Land, I forget which. His exploits are divided into Chapters with a twist surprise.
Also, there's a dog, and Troy Baker is there too for some reason.
Also, there's a dog, and Troy Baker is there too for some reason.
Stereogatari
Banned
What does Liquid's junior's "Never be Game Over" reference? Or is it just one of those quirky Kojima things.
I had a fedling it was Eva's bike.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Very true, but as a character he had potential to hit some key story points (child soldier, betrayal, the horrors of war and torture). As soon as his character was ready to develop... Nope, DEAD!
meltingparappa
Member
I think the idea could be to take Chico, presumed to be immortal plot-wise since he's a likeable child, and subject him to sexual torture and an unceremonious death to show how much of a bad dude Skullface is.
But then Skullface mellowed out over nine years and gives rides to strangers with plenty of small talk before turning on the radio to fill the silence.
But then Skullface mellowed out over nine years and gives rides to strangers with plenty of small talk before turning on the radio to fill the silence.
ShadowOfTheIco
Banned
Chico was the hero Metal Gear deserved. But not the one it needed right now.
Idealistic is his character trait
IIRC in Peace Walker there are a lot of tapes where he's in the background and there's loads of tomfoolery and camaraderie, and he values it (could be wrong, feel free to correct me). And they clearly fawn over him in Ground Zeroes.
Must be wrong about the soldier stuff. Phantom memories.
The problem was he showed insane potential. 1984 Chico in MGSV could have been one of the best characters. Some fully traumatised psycho, some edgy sunuvabitch. Imagine if he turned out to be Gray Fox or something. (I know he would never be.)
Just like Raiden was lame as fuck, but showed potential as Ninja Raiden. (Tho Koji fucked that up, too.)
KingHenrik30
Member
I'm gonna go with Quirky Kojima Thing
Spring-Loaded
Member
It was refreshing for a main character's death in an MGS game to be unceremonious.
ShadowOfTheIco
Banned
Goonies Never Say Die.
Berserker976
Member
MGSV's gameplay gets a lot of praise, for good reason, but I do think it took a few steps backwards in becoming open world.
No swimming - this has been brought up before, every other MGS game has had some kind of swimming segment, or at least the ability to go underwater
Not able to press against any flat surface - this one is more than a small annoyance to me, in every other game you could push yourself up against any flat surface in the game, not so with MGSV
Snake's punch, punch, kick combo is no more - instead, the CQC button just launches into a scripted series of punches that always ends in a KO
No more rolling - yes, I know the dive replaced is the technical replacement, but it's just not the same
You really couldn't find a better use for the square button? - I mean come on, the dive is useful, but having an entire button dedicated to it?
Guards don't react to location based damage anymore - this one is also a pretty big bummer, guards still have hit animations based on where you shoot them, but they go back to animating as if nothing had happened afterwards, definitely a step back
Guard physics - this one may just be personal preference, but I don't really like the new physics in regard to how bodies act. I miss the mixture of scripted animation and subtle positioning physics form the previous games.
I think there are more, but this is all I could come up with off the top of my head.
No swimming - this has been brought up before, every other MGS game has had some kind of swimming segment, or at least the ability to go underwater
Not able to press against any flat surface - this one is more than a small annoyance to me, in every other game you could push yourself up against any flat surface in the game, not so with MGSV
Snake's punch, punch, kick combo is no more - instead, the CQC button just launches into a scripted series of punches that always ends in a KO
No more rolling - yes, I know the dive replaced is the technical replacement, but it's just not the same
You really couldn't find a better use for the square button? - I mean come on, the dive is useful, but having an entire button dedicated to it?
Guards don't react to location based damage anymore - this one is also a pretty big bummer, guards still have hit animations based on where you shoot them, but they go back to animating as if nothing had happened afterwards, definitely a step back
Guard physics - this one may just be personal preference, but I don't really like the new physics in regard to how bodies act. I miss the mixture of scripted animation and subtle positioning physics form the previous games.
I think there are more, but this is all I could come up with off the top of my head.
KOMANI
KOMANI
No knocking.,. Real knocking. If you use another soldier and "knock", the soldier does this weird thing with his hand that in no way should make A sound.
Why can't "knocking" be a command when youre pressed against the wall using the LB/L1 button.
Berserker976
Member
Yeah, having to open up a sub-menu just to knock is insane, and actually caused me to forget it was in the game sometimes.
Also, this would only be considered a step back if you compare it to 3, but, I feel like the animal system was completely half-assed. I mean, 80% of the animals in your encyclopedia don't even have in-game models. There are only really four types of wild life: wandering medium-sized herbivores, small packs of aggressive carnivores, large aggressive carnivores, and birds.
And speaking of MGS3, remember how cool it was to blow up enemy food and ammo supply shacks to influence guard behavior? Seems like a big missed opportunity to not include something comparable in MGSV.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
that first one sort of sucks... I mean, I do like that we can Wound guards so at least that's something but no extremity injuries is an odd stepback.
especially considering I thought local damage detection (so, in terms of HP damage, not animation) is really good and the Damage/Impact Force system is rather specific. I thought how the game handles impact force especially, with guards, helmets, helmet/knee pad damage, shields and getting pushed back vs completely knocked over based on impact force, etc is really good. it's not just based on X weapon but there seems to be 3, maaaybe 4, different levels of impact force for shields, and I think for helmets/knee pads it's purely curved based exactly on what % (0-100) of impact force you have.
so to have all that... and no leg injuries is just... kinda sucks I miss watching injured guards hobble around or be unable to reach for a radio in MGS 3 or something.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
I feel like not giving every soldier or specific soldiers radios and for these to be destroyed was also another step back.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Was just about to mention this. I like that there's radio stuff when they're suspicious, but the psychic base-wide alert when spotted is goofy. Must be a balance thing.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I saw OHN's stream for MGS4, and how guards react to your presence/activities is just awesome. It doesn't make sense in TPP. And how when they're in the combat phase, they magically know where you are, even if you threw a grenade from an unseen place. For a game that makes you go into combat, it's counterintuitive.
There is something comparable in MGSV. You can do combat deployments that do nearly this exact thing. You can ruin helmet shipments, guns, armor, goggles, riot suits, etc etc.
Also, you've got stuff like destroying radio towers which contact HQ, which prevents reinforcements from showing up, as well as shutting down power generators limit their vision. There are actually quite a few options for sabotaging the enemy to weaken their forces.
KOMANI
KOMANI
The only snake you see is the one that bites Venom (oh the irony). I was shocked! Having in game poisonous snakes would have been nice.
Berserker976
Member
Eh, I don't really think the combat deployment stuff is comparable, I've done a million of them and I've never seen any sort of impact on what the guards use. And even if you do enough of them to have an impact all you're really doing is selecting things in a menu, you aren't sneaking into their helmet storage and sabotaging it yourself.
The other stuff is fair though, with the radio communications to HQ and messing with the power generators. I still would have liked a bit more interactivity.
It was refreshing for everything in an MGS game to be unceremonious.
Spring-Loaded
Member
All of this stuff could work in TPP which makes me wish there was a gameplay expansion coming.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Pretty much this. I miss getting into those places and getting their stuff and blowing it up. And put their bodies and see how they'd fly.
EDIT: It makes me wish Kojima would know what worked in previous games and not just what didn't work.
EDIT: All of this also makes me realize that Kojima seemed to have underestimated how much players liked the gimmicks in the games.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
I thought the radio stuff is pretty good... same with reinforcements. almost all of it needs an actual in game action, response, source...
there's a couple times where guards can spawn (and actually use a Defender Wormhole a la FOBs, which is a cool touch).
but usually almost every alert or alarm (combat alert) requires actual animated radio report and also direct visual LOS... I spent almost 6 hours one night experimenting with it on Total Stealth Pitch Dark, and just how much 'alert' I could get from killing without an actual alarm (combat alert) and it was actually really specific and tangible in a 'guards actually have to do it (see you, report you, etc) sort of way.
every once in a while there may be a combat alert that seems a bit too psychic... or S rank guards that seemingly have homing trackers on their mortars lol no matter how far you run... but 200 hours in, i find it to be rather specific and actually require actions, responses, sources, etc -- probably the best part of the 'guard' system in the game imo (cuz wounding and tracking/flanking definitely aren't it). probably the radio stuff and then the Enemy Preparedness levels.
week ago or so, I hadn't barely seen any gas masks for 20-30 hours... almost zero. and then after 2-3 SIDE OPs of using a smoke grenade launcher, my next return to ACC and then sortie resulted in ALL 12 every single one suddenly wearing gas masks lol
there's a couple times where guards can spawn (and actually use a Defender Wormhole a la FOBs, which is a cool touch).
but usually almost every alert or alarm (combat alert) requires actual animated radio report and also direct visual LOS... I spent almost 6 hours one night experimenting with it on Total Stealth Pitch Dark, and just how much 'alert' I could get from killing without an actual alarm (combat alert) and it was actually really specific and tangible in a 'guards actually have to do it (see you, report you, etc) sort of way.
every once in a while there may be a combat alert that seems a bit too psychic... or S rank guards that seemingly have homing trackers on their mortars lol no matter how far you run... but 200 hours in, i find it to be rather specific and actually require actions, responses, sources, etc -- probably the best part of the 'guard' system in the game imo (cuz wounding and tracking/flanking definitely aren't it). probably the radio stuff and then the Enemy Preparedness levels.
week ago or so, I hadn't barely seen any gas masks for 20-30 hours... almost zero. and then after 2-3 SIDE OPs of using a smoke grenade launcher, my next return to ACC and then sortie resulted in ALL 12 every single one suddenly wearing gas masks lol
The magic AI is so incredibly disappointing.
It makes me wish Kojima had the sense to cut the fat and refocus the game. We don't need so much filler - fewer, tighter missions would have been a better approach.
I still enjoy the filler missions though. They disrupt the narrative but they're still hella fun to play.
I do actually think gameplay DLC for Phantom Pain would be a blast since the gameplay is my favorite part.
Moon_frogger
Member
I don't think the ai is magic at all. It's super easy to divert their attention, I've often given them a quick slip and flanked while they fired at what they thought was my position. I've seen enemy AI mistake another enemy for me, which was pretty hilarious. Also, they actually call out your position to each other pretty regularly, which they never did in any other metal gear game. and if they don't then they lose sight of you. there's quite a bit more to it then just magically knowing where you are. having said, some of the ai routines seem simplified. I've noticed they sometimes seem to spot me through walls, and try to attack through solid objects like floors and ceilings, especially in the FOB stuff.
You've kind of missed my point. I'm not contesting that they're fun, I'm saying the package as a whole would improve with their absence so that effort went elsewhere.
7DollarHagane
Banned
You better get used to picking your jaw off the floor because from a gameplay perspective, MGSV exceeded my wildest demands. The sheer number of things you can do from moment to moment made this not only an incredible and memorable adventure, but also one that was downright fun. MGSV does, however take a couple steps back from the previous games: While the game is better designed, the story isn't nearly as good. Also, the final boss battle in MGSV has to be one of the most anticlimactic fights ever. If this is indeed the last in the series, then it ends, not with a bang, but a whimper. Bring on MGS6!
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Still, if they didn't care for him, they wouldn't have rescued him, right? He should've been as much of a phantom as Paz was.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
should have just cut Chapter 2 imo.. worked in the only 2 decent missions into Chapter 1 (so Mission 43 somewhere around Mission 25) and then Mission 45 could be either at Mission 23 (after she attacks the DDog guy) or maybe optional and between Mission 29 and 30. then, obviously more narrative focus and cutscenes (less learning stuff from tapes).
and less Eli maybe and a real effing conclusion for Man on Fire (maybe he could have been piloting Sahelanthropus)...
or something else ;p i'm no game director. i'd be open to anything haha. but i would have been happy with the Chapter 1 ending had the middle of Chapter 1 much more narrative explanation and a more satisfying handling of Man of Fire...
Skull Face and Cypher were good, almost in a sort of Mass Effect 1 'f yea Diamond Dogs' (but a threat remains) sort of way...
but Man on Fire needed a proper wrap up and really Eli probably has no major place in MGS V if it's a 1 Chapter game
Oh. Then I just disagree.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Mission 45 has to be after 43 considering Quiet left because she saw the effects of the parasites on the Diamond Dogs, she pretty much became self-destructive.
Probably really late on this... but god damn.
When you isolate Huey's "Happy Birthday" from the rest of the crew, he reveals his true self
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkwMG5el7oI
When you isolate Huey's "Happy Birthday" from the rest of the crew, he reveals his true self
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkwMG5el7oI
They didn't really have a choice, given his past he was bound to give up their location. I wouldn't take them saving him as a sign that they liked him, it was more out of necessity. They needed to know what he had told them.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
usually they seem to need LOS... it's easy to test this on Quiet... if you throw a grenade or shoot a rocket, she'll always look to the explosion location. it's kind of hard to show on grenades but test it on guards or quiet with the... last rocket launcher, the multi-one. it's pretty slow, and if you shoot it, you can clearly see that she first notices your location (where you shot from) but then independently notices the explosion location (so it screws up where she thinks you are).
the tricky about about grenades is if you throw one and even if they don't have LOS... they have a pretty good area of where you are because grenades have a short range. so, they it's the same if you fire a non-silenced rifle shot without LOS... the guards know your approximate location but don't directly have LOS of your specific location.
sometimes though maybe the game can be tricky because it treats grenades, rocket launchers like guns where they're thrown/fire (so they know where the 'thing' was 'shot' from but then the explosion is independent, like C4... but because the two are so close for grenades, they may just start firing toward you anyhow even if they don't directly 100% have LOS).
there are a few annoying times though where once they're in combat alert, even if you're silenced, if you shoot 1 guard and then suddenly everyone knows where you are. but if you're just in alert, usually it requires LOS.
most of the time I can snipe, shoot rockets, or even throw grenades and stay out of combat alert (they may know I'm around... even know my general location.. but they never actually go into combat alert or specifically see me).
it gets a lot harder later on because S rank guards have massive massive LOS and much faster detection =/ and they have crazy mortar accuracy and can throw grenades 2x as far (I measured it lol) as Snake
Considering reflex mode is a thing here, yeah its probably for balance. Because if you still went by original rules and the guard yelled contact then you took him out, and the other guards rushed to his position, by that time a player would have been able to escape the area... making actually getting into conflict practically never happen since guards are usually split up by quite a bit in missions.
Honestly yeah Chico could've and maybe should've been Gray Fox it wouldn't have been the most extreme retcon we've seen in this series, and if Amanda had been killed the motivation would've worked. The timeline would've been fucked but shit its Metal Gear.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
It's easy when you're in alert, yes, but if you're in the combat phase, they magically know where you're shooting or throwing grenades from.
If we are still on the Chico thing, most of the PW cast is practically ignored and barely mentioned at all.
Chico= Killed in the chopper
Strangelove= Has a death tape
Cecile= WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?
Amanda= Venom on tape 'Yeah, her revolution is going good I guess'
Nuke the cat= Photograph
Galvez= Photograph
Hot Coldman=Skullface in cutscene "Man that guy's plan was dumb... my parasite plan is so much better"
Chico= Killed in the chopper
Strangelove= Has a death tape
Cecile= WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?
Amanda= Venom on tape 'Yeah, her revolution is going good I guess'
Nuke the cat= Photograph
Galvez= Photograph
Hot Coldman=Skullface in cutscene "Man that guy's plan was dumb... my parasite plan is so much better"
KyanMehwulfe
Member
yeah combat alert seems like... soon as it occurs, it triggers, 1. everyone now knows your last location, 2. their LOS seems like it doubles/tripples.
i'm sort of OK with it most of the time... i mean, if an alarm is raised and instantly 2 guards yell to everyone 'he's on the hill, watch for him' it sort of makes sense...
i mean, imagine if the 15 guards where gamers... that they were a team of other defending FOB players (even without Marking)... they'd probably know where you are and instantly announce where to fire over TS, and be able to see you with LOS much more easily. and S rank guards sort of behave like that haha.
i get a few 'wtf, are they psychic' moments too (and i'm not defending or denying any bad experiences
just sharing my outlook on it) but for the most part I like that they feel like 5 Star robocop terminator GTA V cops with mortars because I can appreciate that even 200 hours in, fully upgraded, I can still get my ass kicked by 3-4 bad ass guards if I don't have good cover hehehe
i'm sort of OK with it most of the time... i mean, if an alarm is raised and instantly 2 guards yell to everyone 'he's on the hill, watch for him' it sort of makes sense...
i mean, imagine if the 15 guards where gamers... that they were a team of other defending FOB players (even without Marking)... they'd probably know where you are and instantly announce where to fire over TS, and be able to see you with LOS much more easily. and S rank guards sort of behave like that haha.
i get a few 'wtf, are they psychic' moments too (and i'm not defending or denying any bad experiences
just sharing my outlook on it) but for the most part I like that they feel like 5 Star robocop terminator GTA V cops with mortars because I can appreciate that even 200 hours in, fully upgraded, I can still get my ass kicked by 3-4 bad ass guards if I don't have good cover heheheFucking sinister.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Lmao, amazing video. I don't always say this, but Huey was a POS. Like really. Hal sleeping with his second wife was just karma.
To be honest, Chico was the only one who had a continued storyline with GZ, the rest didn't.
To be honest, Chico was the only one who had a continued storyline with GZ, the rest didn't.
I kinda wish thats how GZ actually ended, with Paz exploding with a mix of shrapnel and confetti
When I played Peace Walker, I felt bad for him originally. "Wow, this guy is handicapped, seems like an ok guy, and his son is going to cheat on his second wife, and he is going to kill himself" was in the back of my mind for a lot of that game.
Now? Lol, yeah Huey can go fuck himself. If the one idea I can give Kojima credit with this games story is the fact the only reason Huey is able to walk in this game was to contrast that where as almost everyone from MSF lost something, he was the only one to gain.