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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

Neiteio

Member
I've warmed up a lot to Venom Snake. He definitely should've gotten a hell of alot more characterization during the main game, but what we ended up with, I like him enough.

Solidus is still the most tragic Snake
It's a sign of a good character when I wish everything worked out for Venom. I wish he and Quiet had settled down. Get married, move into a picturesque lil' house. He gets her the therapy she clearly needs (being a psycho killer and all). DD is their household pet. Ocelot is their neighbor, and you only see his eyes above the fence in the backyard. He gives Venom advice when Quiet has her teeth-stabbing, neck-stabbing, dick-stabbing fits of anger. "She killed another coworker, Ocelot." "You gotta be there for her, Venom."

Not sure where Kaz fits into this sitcom, but it's one I'd watch.
 

Reebot

Member
If anything, raiden is the most tragic snake since he had the codename until he landed on big shell.

Yeah why did the AI just kind of fuck around with him on that?

"Raiden, we called you Snake just in case anyone is watching and wants some kind of surprise reveal at this point."
 
It's a sign of a good character when I wish everything worked out for Venom. I wish he and Quiet had settled down. Get married, move into a picturesque lil' house. He gets her the therapy she clearly needs (being a psycho killer and all). DD is their household pet. Ocelot is their neighbor, and you only see his eyes above the fence in the backyard. He gives Venom advice when Quiet has her teeth-stabbing, neck-stabbing, dick-stabbing fits of anger. "She killed another coworker, Ocelot." "You gotta be there for her, Venom."

Not sure where Kaz fits into this sitcom, but it's one I'd watch.

Kaz will just keep talking about what happened "9 months ago".
Yeah why did the AI just kind of fuck around with him on that?

"Raiden, we called you Snake just in case anyone is watching and wants some kind of surprise reveal at this point."
Imagine how fucked it would have been if we didn't see or hear the real image of Raiden until Arsenal Gear. Play through the whole Tanker as "Solid Snake". But then I suppose that fucks up the whole Trolljima thing.
 

Neiteio

Member
No. Her characterisation is excellent. She has a solid motive and backstory, her actions are all important and meaningful, when she does talk the dialogue is good, she's important to the story.

But then the camera zooms on her tits and ass. And she's naked for no reason.

She's a great character, but Kojima absolutely fucked it with the execution. The two plot problems with Quiet are 1. why doesn't she just write shit down when she fully joins Diamond Dogs and 2. in the end she sacrifices herself to save sexy male protagonist - lame. At least her send-off is pretty meaningful.
I agree she's a solid character who is undermined by the camera work and the posing, but about her not writing shit down: I believe they explained that she refused to do so. And we later learn this might've been because part of her still wanted revenge against BB, so she wasn't willing to tip her hand just yet. It's a contrivance, for sure, but it's something.
 

Nibel

Member
You're playing the Medic, a star soldier specializing in field surgery. He's the guy in the body armor with the gun, posing with BB in the picture the doctor shows you. BB says in the Doublethink tape: "He was always our best man." He's the guy who threw his body in front of BB to shield him from the bomb blast in GZ. Those are Paz's bones lodged in his body, the girl he failed to save. He wound up in a coma, and Zero conceived a plan to turn him into a body double: Punished Snake, a.k.a. Venom. He was already BB's best apprentice, so he had the experience, knowledge and skills. It was just a matter of making him think he's BB.

But it obviously didn't change his personality. Look at the difference between Ishmael (BB) and Ahab (Venom). Ishmael is all assertive, aggressive, Type A. Ishmael is a charming extrovert, wisecracking in the heat of battle ("I gave her a light, she took the short way down," "I'll run interference," etc). Note how Ocelot lights his cigar like a well-trained lapdog. Now look at Ahab, the soft-spoken, slow-to-anger imposter. He's primarily vengeful when acquiescing to the anger of his more assertive sub-commanders, but by nature he's more introverted, passive, Type B. He becomes more benevolent and emotionally vulnerable as the game goes on (the Paz tapes, sparing Huey, the angst over M43, etc).

In the end, the question is how he ultimately received the truth. The smirk and nod when he's told he's one-half of BB and they built the legend together suggests he's OK with the plan, in the short term. But notice how when he turns the tape, the Diamond Dogs logo in the background turns into the Outer Heaven logo. There's a time skip, to the end of MG1 when Solid Snake is at his doorstep. Venom is now covered in blood, his horn long. Solid Snake is about to kill him, and I suspect Venom is no longer happy to be the meat shield for the real BB. He punches the mirror, perhaps rejecting his fate. But the scene is open to interpretation, so that's just my take.

I feel bad for Venom. I think it's a neat way to show how the real BB turned. Instead of seeing a dramatic Darth Vader story where BB shoots up kids and commits other heinous acts, we see a story from the viewpoint of his victims. BB went along with a plan that robbed his best soldier of his identity and put him in harm's way. He went along with a plan that put -all- of the Diamond Dogs in harm's way. And he agreed to a plan where they would put the hospital in harm's way. We're seeing BB go against the values of the Boss because he is a hypocrite and a coward. He is now treating people like a means to an end, rather than the end itself.

You are a diamond

GSLQUok.jpg
 

sjay1994

Member
It's a sign of a good character when I wish everything worked out for Venom. I wish he and Quiet had settled down. Get married, move into a picturesque lil' house. He gets her the therapy she clearly needs (being a psycho killer and all). DD is their household pet. Ocelot is their neighbor, and you only see his eyes above the fence in the backyard. He gives Venom advice when Quiet has her teeth-stabbing, neck-stabbing, dick-stabbing fits of anger. "She killed another coworker, Ocelot." "You gotta be there for her, Venom."

Not sure where Kaz fits into this sitcom, but it's one I'd watch.

The most tragic thing about MGSV is Kaz will never continue the expansion of Millers Maxi Buns, because he is going to be killed by Liquid.
 
There is no proof of that in canon.
I suppose you might be right about the real Big Boss and Miller not being a part of FOXHOUND simultaneously with the current state of the canon. In the Piggyback strategy guide, it simply states he served as a "survival instructor for U.S. military groups, which led him to meet Solid Snake. [He] offered his new protégé radio support during the Zanzibar Land Crisis in 1999." Regardless, Big Boss and Miller were working underneath the umbrella of Cipher/The Patriots with their participation with the American military. "Kazuhira" must've joined FOXHOUND following the Outer Heaven Uprising (Metal Gear) to obtain payback through Solid Snake's subsequent mission. That would explain how Snake received CQC training directly from Big Boss in preparation of Operation N313. Sadly, official sources are heavily ambiguous over when Miller met a youthful Solid Snake at a training camp.

Does anyone else feel like playing MG1 and 2 after completing MGSV?
I managed to knock out the original Metal Gear in anticipation of this latest adventure. I suppose it was poetic to put down the "Phantom" prior to having the knowledge of his exist in the game thanks to Kojima's retcon talent. I watched a YouTube playthrough of MG2: Solid Snake to pass the time, but I'm hoping to actually beat it sometime before the end of the year. It's the sole canon installment that I haven't put down in my backloggery.
 

Reebot

Member
I suppose you might be right about the real Big Boss and Miller not being a part of FOXHOUND simultaneously with the current state of the canon. In the Piggyback strategy guide, it simply states he served as a "survival instructor for U.S. military groups, which led him to meet Solid Snake. [He] offered his new protégé radio support during the Zanzibar Land Crisis in 1999." Regardless, Big Boss and Miller were working underneath the umbrella of Cipher/The Patriots with their participation with the American military. "Kazuhira" must've joined FOXHOUND following the Outer Heaven Uprising (Metal Gear) to obtain payback through Solid Snake's subsequent mission. That would explain how Snake received CQC training directly from Big Boss in preparation of Operation N313. Sadly, official sources are heavily ambiguous over when Miller met a youthful Solid Snake at a training camp.

The interplay between Big Boss, Kaz, and Solid Snake makes zero sense in light of MGS V.
 

Neiteio

Member
The most tragic thing about MGSV is Kaz will never continue the expansion of Millers Maxi Buns, because he is going to be killed by Liquid.
Ah, that's how Kaz can fit into my sitcom. When Venom is feeling stressed out by Quiet disappearing each night and coming back covered in blood — "Honey, you need to stop killing people, it's making the neighbors nervous" — Venom steps out to clear his head and visits Miller's Maxi Buns. There'd be a scene where Venom is drinking a root beer float, telling Kaz his problems. Kaz stops polishing a glass and reaches out, placing his hand over Venom's. "Leave her, boss. She's no good to you." "You're making me a bit uncomfortable, Kaz."
 

Johndoey

Banned
I agree she's a solid character who is undermined by the camera work and the posing, but about her not writing shit down: I believe they explained that she refused to do so. And we later learn this might've been because part of her still wanted revenge against BB, so she wasn't willing to tip her hand just yet. It's a contrivance, for sure, but it's something.

The whole lingering desire for revenge thing doesn't fly man, I mean she clearly wants some of that fine Venom loving by that point in her story, I just don't buy it. Kojima could have just gone with "Skull Face programmed a mental block into her brain preventing her from revealing his secrets" or something.
 
Fuck him, asshole used child soldiers.

Hasn't every villain in the series used or been a child soldier at some point? Well outside of Volgin.

It's a sign of a good character when I wish everything worked out for Venom. I wish he and Quiet had settled down. Get married, move into a picturesque lil' house. He gets her the therapy she clearly needs (being a psycho killer and all). DD is their household pet. Ocelot is their neighbor, and you only see his eyes above the fence in the backyard. He gives Venom advice when Quiet has her teeth-stabbing, neck-stabbing, dick-stabbing fits of anger. "She killed another coworker, Ocelot." "You gotta be there for her, Venom."

Not sure where Kaz fits into this sitcom, but it's one I'd watch.

Kaz would be the owner of the burger joint Venom hangs out at after work. He'd give Venom some advice on his life but would always go into fits of rage if Venom mentioned the "good ol days". Also he'd always be on the lookout for that sneaky Skullface who keeps trying to steal Kaz's recipe to create his own food place.

God damn it I want to watch this now.
 

sjay1994

Member
The interplay between Big Boss, Kaz, and Solid Snake makes zero sense in light of MGS V.

A lot of interactions have stopped making sense after MGSV. How the hell did Liquid, Mantis and Ocelot all meet up later, and none of them seem to recognize each other?

Why has mantis's ability to fucking control metal gears been reduced to simply reading your memory card and is defeated by changing controller ports?

Did the Boss know that everyone in her cobra unit had parasites in them?
 

Seik

Banned
It's a sign of a good character when I wish everything worked out for Venom. I wish he and Quiet had settled down. Get married, move into a picturesque lil' house. He gets her the therapy she clearly needs (being a psycho killer and all). DD is their household pet. Ocelot is their neighbor, and you only see his eyes above the fence in the backyard. He gives Venom advice when Quiet has her teeth-stabbing, neck-stabbing, dick-stabbing fits of anger. "She killed another coworker, Ocelot." "You gotta be there for her, Venom."

Not sure where Kaz fits into this sitcom, but it's one I'd watch.

I'd see Kaz as the friendly neighbor with some...issues.

Kinda like Dale...:lol

rsz_tumblr_liu3zeh6lz1qzdypz_3534.png
 

Reebot

Member
A lot of interactions have stopped making sense after MGSV. How the hell did Liquid, Mantis and Ocelot all meet up later, and none of them seem to recognize each other?

Why has mantis's ability to fucking control metal gears been reduced to simply reading your memory card and is defeated by changing controller ports?

Did the Boss know that everyone in her cobra unit had parasites in them?

The Liquid-Ocelot-Mantis thing is pretty funny when you realize how left out Raven must feel.
 
There is no proof of that in canon.
It can be inferred though, from the fact that despite Miller being introduced as a random support guy in Metal Gear 2 he was later retconned in MGS1 to have a deeper relationship with Solid Snake where he acted as a mentor to him in his early FOXHOUND days. And people forget this, but Solid Snake retired from FOXHOUND immediately after the events of MG1 (when Big Boss was in control) and was only brought back for the Zanzibar mission just like in MGS1 with Shadow Moses. So if we're going to say Miller only joined when Big Boss left the organization, Solid Snake would never have known the man.

It might not have been something Kojima intended, but it kind of has to be the case because of the story conflict.
 

Neiteio

Member
The whole lingering desire for revenge thing doesn't fly man, I mean she clearly wants some of the fine Venom loving by that point in her story, I just don't buy it. Kojima could have just gone with "Skull Face programmed a mental block into her brain preventing her from revealing his secrets" or something.
I can buy her being nearly, fully in love with Venom, but still waffling because it wasn't long ago she was determined to put a bullet through his brain.

What I wish was better developed is how she wound up with XOF. She says "vengeance drove me to them," which must refer to her joining up with Skull Face. It can't be a reference to hunting down BB, because "them" suggests a group, not an individual. Also, she was already -with- them when she attacked BB. So she must be referring to something that happened before BB, before Skull Face, something that would explain how she became a coldblooded killer.

I would've loved to have something, anything, to help me sympathize with why she is the way she is. But since we don't have that, I've come to see her as a monster we're not supposed to approve, but a monster that develops something akin to a heart, something resembling humanity.

Venom spares her multiple times. He forgives her. He trusts her. He treats her like a human being when she is clearly a horrible monster. And so she feels something for him. Maybe it's the first time she's really felt anything for anyone.

So that's kind of neat. I just wish we knew more.
 

sjay1994

Member
Ah, that's how Kaz can fit into my sitcom. When Venom is feeling stressed out by Quiet disappearing each night and coming back covered in blood — "Honey, you need to stop killing people, it's making the neighbors nervous" — Venom steps out to clear his head and visits Miller's Maxi Buns. There'd be a scene where Venom is drinking a root beer float, telling Kaz his problems. Kaz stops polishing a glass and reaches out, placing his hand over Venom's. "Leave her, boss. She's no good to you." "You're making me a bit uncomfortable, Kaz."

Cut to a few year later where Quiet and Venom have finally had a child. Venom takes his kid to Millers Maxi Bun's for a sampling of the foxhound kids menu.

Miller pulls Venom to the side and says "Boss, careful. If that child gets hurt, the marriage is a failure"
 

Reebot

Member
It can be inferred though, from the fact that despite Miller being introduced as a random support guy in Metal Gear 2 he was later retconned in MGS1 to have a deeper relationship with Solid Snake where he acted as a mentor to him in his early FOXHOUND days. And people forget this, but Solid Snake retired from FOXHOUND immediately after the events of MG1 (when Big Boss was in control) and was only brought back for the Zanzibar mission just like in MGS1 with Shadow Moses. So if we're going to say Miller only joined when Big Boss left the organization, Solid Snake would never have known the man.

It might not have been something Kojima intended, but it kind of has to be the case because of the story conflict.

We know Snake trained under Miller though, that's a plot point in both MG 2 and MGS.
 

Neiteio

Member
The Liquid-Ocelot-Mantis thing is pretty funny when you realize how left out Raven must feel.
Oh man, it would've been so cool if we saw kid versions of all of them. Sniper Wolf would've been easy enough to bring in, she was in Iraq around that time. Raven was up in Alaska, but maybe he could've gone on some shamanistic globe-trotting journey and crossed paths with Eli that way. They'd need to retcon some stuff but it'd be worth it.
 
A lot of interactions have stopped making sense after MGSV. How the hell did Liquid, Mantis and Ocelot all meet up later, and none of them seem to recognize each other?

Why has mantis's ability to fucking control metal gears been reduced to simply reading your memory card and is defeated by changing controller ports?


Did the Boss know that everyone in her cobra unit had parasites in them?
Did the sorrow use parasites?
 
A lot of interactions have stopped making sense after MGSV. How the hell did Liquid, Mantis and Ocelot all meet up later, and none of them seem to recognize each other?

Why has mantis's ability to fucking control metal gears been reduced to simply reading your memory card and is defeated by changing controller ports?

Did the Boss know that everyone in her cobra unit had parasites in them?

You could say that Liquid and Mantis went their separate ways but always kept in touch. Can't really explain why Liquid and Ocelot would be okay with seeing each other again. Maybe he just forgot about Ocelot?

Thing about Mantis being weaker as he got older could be when he was working with the KGB and dove into the psychopath's mind, it kinda just fucked him up and he lost alot of his psychic potential?

Third one I dunno man. This is the kinda shit that happens when you go and retcon past games.
 

Neiteio

Member
Cut to a few year later where Quiet and Venom have finally had a child. Venom takes his kid to Millers Maxi Bun's for a sampling of the foxhound kids menu.

Miller pulls Venom to the side and says "Boss, careful. If that child gets hurt, the marriage is a failure"
And then one day they notice another burger joint across the street, Such A Lust For Burgers. They go inside and Skull Face greets them at the counter. They wait until he's done giving a 10-minute speech and playing "Sins of the Father" before giving their order. They're then surprised to learn it's a not a new business but a business that had been there all along. The burger venture is new, though; previously it was a cleaning company. Also, the place has a recurring pest problem with parasites, causing patrons to turn invisible, jump super-high, etc. Quiet used to work there, it turns out.
 

sjay1994

Member
You could say that Liquid and Mantis went their separate ways but always kept in touch. Can't really explain why Liquid and Ocelot would be okay with seeing each other again. Maybe he just forgot about Ocelot?

Thing about Mantis being weaker as he got older could be when he was working with the KGB and dove into the psychopath's mind, it kinda just fucked him up and he lost alot of his psychic potential?

Third one I dunno man. This is the kinda shit that happens when you go and retcon past games.

... went through the wiki.

In February 2005, Revolver Ocelot secretly worked as U.S. President George Sears's agent to incite Liquid into bringing about an insurrection on Shadow Moses Island, along with the other serving members of FOXHOUND and the Next-Generation Special Forces. To ensure that Liquid Snake wouldn't recognize him due to having encountered while he was a member of Diamond Dogs, Ocelot had Liquid covertly subjected to hypno therapy so that he could manipulate Liquid more easily. In addition, Ocelot used his influence to gain his old comrade Sergei Gurlukovich's support, providing military hardware to the Sons of Big Boss.

FUCKING HYPNOTHERAPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Johndoey

Banned
It can be inferred though, from the fact that despite Miller being introduced as a random support guy in Metal Gear 2 he was later retconned in MGS1 to have a deeper relationship with Solid Snake where he acted as a mentor to him in his early FOXHOUND days. And people forget this, but Solid Snake retired from FOXHOUND immediately after the events of MG1 (when Big Boss was in control) and was only brought back for the Zanzibar mission just like in MGS1 with Shadow Moses. So if we're going to say Miller only joined when Big Boss left the organization, Solid Snake would never have known the man.

It might not have been something Kojima intended, but it kind of has to be the case because of the story conflict.

The only way to reconcile the issues is to assume that Miller lost his memories between MGSV and at least Metal Gear 1. Let's be generous and say Liquid grew up and got over a ton of stuff between V and 1 so he let Ocelot hang around, the Liquid-Mantis thing actually works since there wouldn't be a reason for the information of their previous relationship to pop up.

... went through the wiki.



FUCKING HYPNOTHERAPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this just a fan theory someone substituted for actual canon?

I can buy her being nearly, fully in love with Venom, but still waffling because it wasn't long ago she was determined to put a bullet through his brain.

What I wish was better developed is how she wound up with XOF. She says "vengeance drove me to them," which must refer to her joining up with Skull Face. It can't be a reference to hunting down BB, because "them" suggests a group, not an individual. Also, she was already -with- them when she attacked BB. So she must be referring to something that happened before BB, before Skull Face, something that would explain how she became a coldblooded killer.

I would've loved to have something, anything, to help me sympathize with why she is the way she is. But since we don't have that, I've come to see her as a monster we're not supposed to approve, but a monster that develops something akin to a heart, something resembling humanity.

Venom spares her multiple times. He forgives her. He trusts her. He treats her like a human being when she is clearly a horrible monster. And so she feels something for him. Maybe it's the first time she's really felt anything for anyone.

So that's kind of neat. I just wish we knew more.

I was so close to kinda caring about Quiet but I never quite got there, so when she fucked off I was just feeling "You didn't do enough with her for me to properly care. #Missedopportunities"
 
You're playing the Medic, a star soldier specializing in field surgery. He's the guy in the body armor with the gun, posing with BB in the picture the doctor shows you. BB says in the Doublethink tape: "He was always our best man." He's the guy who threw his body in front of BB to shield him from the bomb blast in GZ. Those are Paz's bones lodged in his body, the girl he failed to save. He wound up in a coma, and Zero conceived a plan to turn him into a body double: Punished Snake, a.k.a. Venom. He was already BB's best apprentice, so he had the experience, knowledge and skills. It was just a matter of making him think he's BB.

But it obviously didn't change his personality. Look at the difference between Ishmael (BB) and Ahab (Venom). Ishmael is all assertive, aggressive, Type A. Ishmael is a charming extrovert, wisecracking in the heat of battle ("I gave her a light, she took the short way down," "I'll run interference," etc). Note how Ocelot lights his cigar like a well-trained lapdog. Now look at Ahab, the soft-spoken, slow-to-anger imposter. He's primarily vengeful when acquiescing to the anger of his more assertive sub-commanders, but by nature he's more introverted, passive, Type B. He becomes more benevolent and emotionally vulnerable as the game goes on (the Paz tapes, sparing Huey, the angst over M43, etc).

In the end, the question is how he ultimately received the truth. The smirk and nod when he's told he's one-half of BB and they built the legend together suggests he's OK with the plan, in the short term. But notice how when he turns the tape, the Diamond Dogs logo in the background turns into the Outer Heaven logo. There's a time skip, to the end of MG1 when Solid Snake is at his doorstep. Venom is now covered in blood, his horn long. Solid Snake is about to kill him, and I suspect Venom is no longer happy to be the meat shield for the real BB. He punches the mirror, perhaps rejecting his fate. But the scene is open to interpretation, so that's just my take.

I feel bad for Venom. I think it's a neat way to show how the real BB turned. Instead of seeing a dramatic Darth Vader story where BB shoots up kids and commits other heinous acts, we see a story from the viewpoint of his victims. BB went along with a plan that robbed his best soldier of his identity and put him in harm's way. He went along with a plan that put -all- of the Diamond Dogs in harm's way. And he agreed to a plan where they would put the hospital in harm's way. We're seeing BB go against the values of the Boss because he is a hypocrite and a coward. He is now treating people like a means to an end, rather than the end itself.
Good post. I also enjoyed the twist. Game had awesome gameplay and I feel like the skeleton of a good story was there but I wanted more cut scenes and whatnot. Ah well.
 

sjay1994

Member
And then one day they notice another burger joint across the street, Such A Lust For Burgers. They go inside and Skull Face greets them at the counter. They wait until he's done giving a 10-minute speech and playing "Sins of the Father" before giving their order. They're then surprised to learn it's a not a new business but a business that had been there all along. The burger venture is new, though; previously it was a cleaning company. Also, the place has a recurring pest problem with parasites, causing patrons to turn invisible, jump super-high, etc.

Miller decides now that the burger industry calls for wetwork, no greater good, no just cause.

He then commissions Venom to target all meat shipments headed towards A Lust for Burgers. He then learns that Skullface is pursuing new research, to create a burger to surpass Maxi Buns.

Venom must then leave his family to steal this research to ensure Maxi Buns can survive.

All for Burgers.
 
It's a sign of a good character when I wish everything worked out for Venom. I wish he and Quiet had settled down. Get married, move into a picturesque lil' house. He gets her the therapy she clearly needs (being a psycho killer and all). DD is their household pet. Ocelot is their neighbor, and you only see his eyes above the fence in the backyard. He gives Venom advice when Quiet has her teeth-stabbing, neck-stabbing, dick-stabbing fits of anger. "She killed another coworker, Ocelot." "You gotta be there for her, Venom."

Not sure where Kaz fits into this sitcom, but it's one I'd watch.

The most tragic thing about MGSV is Kaz will never continue the expansion of Millers Maxi Buns, because he is going to be killed by Liquid.

It's obvious to me that Kaz eventually opens his restraunt with a new name:

"McDonnell's"
 

Neiteio

Member
Miller decides now that the burger industry calls for wetwork, no greater good, no just cause.

He then commissions Venom to target all meat shipments headed towards A Lust for Burgers. He then learns that Skullface is pursuing new research, to create a burger to surpass Maxi Buns.

Venom must then leave his family to steal this research to ensure Maxi Buns can survive.

All for Burgers.
Amazing.

You and I need to acquire the rights to the MGS IP so we can make this sitcom a reality.
 

sjay1994

Member
The only way to reconcile the issues is to assume that Miller lost his memories between MGSV and at least Metal Gear 1. Let's be generous and say Liquid grew up and got over a ton of stuff between V and 1 so he let Ocelot hang around, the Liquid-Mantis thing actually works since there wouldn't be a reason for the information of their previous relationship to pop up.



Is this just a fan theory someone substituted for actual canon?

I have the collectors guide, and double checked.

Yeah this shit is canon.

Shadow Mosses was all Ocelots plan all along to destroy the Patriots, and used hypnotherapy to manipulate liquid.
 

Neiteio

Member
I have the collectors guide, and double checked.

Yeah this shit is canon.

Shadow Mosses was all Ocelots plan all along to destroy the Patriots, and used hypnotherapy to manipulate liquid.
Guidebook is amazing. The timeline is basically the updated canon post-MGSV.
 

sjay1994

Member
Amazing.

You and I need to acquire the rights to the MGS IP so we can make this sitcom a reality.

We will probably get a seize and desist from Nickelodeon because we are quickly turning MGS into the Krabby Patty sub plot from Spongebob.

But still No greater good, no just cause.
 

Neiteio

Member
We will probably get a seize and desist from Nickelodeon because we are quickly turning MGS into the Krabby Patty sub plot from Spongebob.

But still No greater good, no just cause.
Hey, "Diamond Days" the MGSV sitcom wouldn't be -just- about burgers.

For example, there'd be the subplot where Venom keeps lingering on yearbook pictures of his high school crush, Paz. And then Quiet materializes in the room and looks at her husband with hellfire in her eyes. "Sweetie, I swear, she's nothing to me," Venom murmurs while sneaking around the living room, Quiet shooting her sniper rifle and destroying the lamp, the couch, etc. Kaz then shows up at the door, smiling smugly: "Trouble in paradise?" *cue laugh track*
 

Johndoey

Banned
I miss Mei Ling for some reason.

Hey, "Diamond Days" the MGSV sitcom wouldn't be -just- about burgers.

For example, there'd be the subplot where Venom keeps lingering on yearbook pictures of his high school crush, Paz. And then Quiet materializes in the room and looks at her husband with hellfire in her eyes. "Sweetie, I swear, she's nothing to me," Venom murmurs while sneaking around the living room, Quiet shooting her sniper rifle and destroying the lamp, the couch, etc. Kaz then shows up at the door, smiling smugly: "Trouble in paradise?" *cue laugh track*

The scene cuts to Venom and Kaz being thrown out the living room window. Quiet takes a vaction to Afghanistan, where Venom finds her and wins her back by humming their wedding song. Cuts to Kaz who smirks and whispers to the camera "We'll let them have some peace and Quiet" *audience: awwwwww, fade to black*.
 

Predwolf

Member
I've been laying in the back of a moving truck for the last few hours while I do other stuff in real life, just so that my materials process and research continues to complete.

Welcome to late-game MGS5.
 

Neiteio

Member
Is the guidebook worth getting? Is there a lot of art or is it all stuff we've already seen?
Nearly 40 bottoms of detailed story breakdown including series-wide character profiles and the canonical updated timeline, plus an extensive art gallery with Kojima notes at the end. And the guide portion is great, too -- they even break down the damage multipliers for the boss's on a per limb basis.

Along with the Bloodborne guide, the MGSV guide is among the very best in game books.
 
The Liquid-Ocelot-Mantis thing is pretty funny when you realize how left out Raven must feel.
Indeed, Vulcan Raven is the single member of the group who doesn't have a direct link to Big Boss to our knowledge.

It can be inferred though, from the fact that despite Miller being introduced as a random support guy in Metal Gear 2 he was later retconned in MGS1 to have a deeper relationship with Solid Snake where he acted as a mentor to him in his early FOXHOUND days. And people forget this, but Solid Snake retired from FOXHOUND immediately after the events of MG1 (when Big Boss was in control) and was only brought back for the Zanzibar mission just like in MGS1 with Shadow Moses. So if we're going to say Miller only joined when Big Boss left the organization, Solid Snake would never have known the man.

It might not have been something Kojima intended, but it kind of has to be the case because of the story conflict.
I've skimmed through several of the plot summaries in the MGSV strategy guide and Solid Snake's initial retirement from FOXHOUND after the events of Outer Heaven has been curiously omitted from the details. It simply acknowledges his withdrawal from duty following the Zanzibar Land Disturbance. Undoubtedly, the window in which Miller and Solid Snake could've met certainly is small so Big Boss could've been in command for a brief period around 1995 (Metal Gear).
 
I've been laying in the back of a moving truck for the last few hours while I do other stuff in real life, just so that my materials process and research continues to complete.

Welcome to late-game MGS5.
Man I need to start doing this. I'm in DESPERATE need of fuel resources to expand MB. I can't wait till I get enough MB coins for a new FOB.
 

Hypron

Member
Dat incredibly stereotypical chinese accent that got retconned in MGS4

Didn't it already get retconned in Twin Snakes?

On another note, what are you guys doing that makes you need fuel so badly? The amount of fuel you earn naturally by playing the game is about what you need to finish upgrading your base fully by the time you finish all the missions and side-ops at 100%.
 
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