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[The Silver]

I'm just arguing against the common interpretation that Venom is a chill dude, loyal to the end that horribad BB plays like a fiddle. I went back and rewatched the ending, when the "the man who sold the world" side plays, Venom is portrayed with a small horn. When the tape flips to N313 with the accompanied time skip, he is portrayed as full Ahab/demon mode. I'm guessing the former is a reflection of in-game player state and the latter is canon Venom development outside of player actions. Obviously what happens in between for this transformation to manifest is not shown (cut content?) but considering Chapter2/Race is thematically suggest the accumulation of nuclear arsenal which is tied to demon points in game, it follows that at some point circumstances drive Venom loses his shit. I just feel that despite the game being... unfinished, there's very deliberate authorial intent on Kojima's part to portray Venom's downfall that didn't get translated into the final game. Kaz is an better proxy for Ahab given what's shown, but if we evaluate on the canon presentation of Venom as a bloody demon at the end, it reads pretty unambiguous that the story was suppose to center around Venom's revenge against... something. And that the intent of N313 by BB wasn't a elaborate ruse to protect his loyal body double and legend gone awry, but an actual effort to assassinate Venom after he goes rogue.

this doesn't explain the good Venom on the other side of the mirror who walks away

I'm pretty much in the camp of that scene representing Venom seeing the demon one last time in Outer Heaven and destroying it once and for all. After the entire game of him feeling guilty and viewing himself as a monster he's finally overcome it and continues on his path with no regrets, no guilt, his mind clear as he fulfills his mission and walks to his death.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Yeah mission 43 (and also what was shown in 51) they show Venom full demon in cutscenes. He knows it's in him, and with the nuclear disarment ending, Venom says he's trying to fight that demon. It's clear he eventually accepts it and embraces it.

 

[Xiraiya]

I still feel like some of the "reveals" of the game were meant to be guessed before going in to playing it, the point of them is to make you want to learn the context.
Volgin in the trailer, you SEE it's Volgin, it's so goddamn obvious, the question is how is it Volgin? or What happened to him? Is he even real? Regardless of the reason, you know it's without a doubt Volgin.

Just as you can tell Venom is not really Big Boss, between Ishmael sounding obviously like Keifer and "Not Your Kind Of People" giving away almost the entire premise, but again the point isn't to trick you, but to make you be like "Well who are we then?" "What is Big Boss doing?" "Why is he looking like BB?" and so on.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Yeah, that's why I didn't mind being spoiled on the twist ending, I was very curious how this would tie into the rest of the series and how well excecuted it was going to be.

BTW, seriously, wasn't anyone expecting something else to come out of this?

I honestly thought that Skullface had a fail safe in case he got killed, and that was Mantis/The Third One (or Son or whatever). But nope.

 

[Artex]

Read this post (clicking the "reveal spoilers" line)

Thank you sir; good read and I understand now. Listened to the tapes you get at the end too which I hadn't before I posted. It's a Metal geary ending and I love it, but dammit it bums me out there isn't going to be another game or DLC.

 

[maxglute]

this doesn't explain the good Venom on the other side of the mirror who walks away

I'm pretty much in the camp of that scene representing Venom seeing the demon one last time in Outer Heaven and destroying it once and for all. After the entire game of him feeling guilty and viewing himself as a monster he's finally overcome it and continues on his path with no regrets, no guilt, his mind clear as he fulfills his mission and walks to his death.

You're totally right. I got the geometries all mixed up. Venom for pope.

 

[Neiteio]

BTW, seriously, wasn't anyone expecting something else to come out of this?

I honestly thought that Skullface had a fail safe in case he got killed, and that was Mantis/The Third One (or Son or whatever). But nope.

I immediately recognized it was a symbol for the folly of revenge, but I would've liked to see more Skull Face hallucinations just because he was a neat character.

There's another game this gen that had something similar going on, where a villain haunts the lead after his passing, and went all-in with it.

It's not necessary here, but it would've been interesting to see.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Oh, I just remembered which game you mean! I feel they could've done something less on the nose here, but more significant towards the revenge theme.

And also have more Skullface. Surprised me how they built him up for such a quick death. I think I can count on one hand the amounts of times he appears before his death.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm just arguing against the common interpretation that Venom is a chill dude, loyal to the end that horribad BB plays like a fiddle. I went back and rewatched the ending, when the "the man who sold the world" side plays, Venom is portrayed with a small horn. When the tape flips to N313 with the accompanied time skip, he is portrayed as full Ahab/demon mode. I'm guessing the former is a reflection of in-game player state and the latter is canon Venom development outside of player actions. Obviously what happens in between for this transformation to manifest is not shown (cut content?) but considering Chapter2/Race is thematically suggest the accumulation of nuclear arsenal which is tied to demon points in game, it follows that at some point circumstances drive Venom loses his shit. I just feel that despite the game being... unfinished, there's very deliberate authorial intent on Kojima's part to portray Venom's downfall that didn't get translated into the final game. Kaz is an better proxy for Ahab given what's shown, but if we evaluate on the canon presentation of Venom as a bloody demon at the end, it reads pretty unambiguous that the story was suppose to center around Venom's revenge against... something. And that the intent of N313 by BB wasn't a elaborate ruse to protect his loyal body double and legend gone awry, but an actual effort to assassinate Venom after he goes rogue.

There are a lot of ways to interpret demonic Venom punching the mirror and heroic Venom walking away in the reflection.

Is Venom shattering his inner demon (the bloody, horned man in the mirror) and reclaiming his innocent self (the clean Venom that remains) before marching off to his fateful confrontation with Solid Snake? Or is the heroic Venom on the other side of the mirror actually abandoning him as it walks away, suggesting that he has fallen from grace in the decade since TPP? Either case can be true without contradicting Venom's ultimate dissatisfaction with the fate forced upon him.

Such delicious ambiguity. Such a lust for thematic discussion!

 

[The Silver]

Yeah, that's why I didn't mind being spoiled on the twist ending, I was very curious how this would tie into the rest of the series and how well excecuted it was going to be.

BTW, seriously, wasn't anyone expecting something else to come out of this?

I honestly thought that Skullface had a fail safe in case he got killed, and that was Mantis/The Third One (or Son or whatever). But nope.

That, Ishmael, "people who don't exist", shrapnel in your brain, fire whales and Volgin, the general tone of the Elegia trailer. They all implied the game would be a lot more psychological than it was; like you'd be dealing with plenty of hallucinations and such.

Then all we really got was Paz.

 

[Neiteio]

That, Ishmael, "people who don't exist", shrapnel in your brain, fire whales and Volgin, the general tone of the Elegia trailer. They all implied the game would be a lot more psychological than it was; like you'd be dealing with plenty of hallucinations and such.

Then all we really got was Paz.

We got Paz, we got Skull Face, we got the fire whale and fire pegasus, we got the final Man on Fire scene where you retrieve his body (remember, Mantis was not present -- he was in Seychelles with Eli -- and the MoF can't come to life without Mantis). So there were five types of hallucinations, which is decent. Overdo it and they could lose their novelty.

 

[bluethree]

Yeah mission 43 (and also what was shown in 51) they show Venom full demon in cutscenes. He knows it's in him, and with the nuclear disarment ending, Venom says he's trying to fight that demon. It's clear he eventually accepts it and embraces it.

I imagine Venom's "downfall" to be like that one Simpsons episode where Flanders snaps.

"Gosh darn diddly dang old demon crap!"

 

[Neiteio]

PUBLIC ENEMY NO. 1

*cut to montage of Venom rescuing puppies and sheep, saving a sniper that tried to kill him twice, sending a mad scientist on a boat ride, stealing and disarming nukes, etc*

HE MUST BE STOPPED.

 

[KOMANI]

The game never feels confident enough to go "all in" on any story points.

Paz's side mission feels like the dialogue was gutted, which it was,

Snake's head trauma is barely touched upon, and the only time it's significant is during the cut 51 episode.

"Benedict" Miller is clearly set up to be a traitor? Even Mother Base's soldier begin to bad mouth him, along with the warning from the parasites... but nothing comes out of that.

There's no reason for Children Soldiers. They're there.., then they're not. The most prominent child soldier, Chico, dies before the game begins.

The rest of the Metal Gear games strived to be something more than just a video game. Phantom Pain is comfortable just being just that, and is too scared to hit its potential. The gameplay took risks, the story did not.

 

[JayEH]

Kojima said that this would deal with physical and emotional phantom pain. Yet besides Miller's speech about still feeling his limbs and a throw away line in a tape about Venom still feeling his left fingers they never touch upon it again. Venom is actually rewarded for missing his arm since he gets a cool robot arm instead. The paz story line was well done imo since it actually tried to touch upon these themes.

 

[Xiraiya]

We got Paz, we got Skull Face, we got the fire whale and fire pegasus, we got the final Man on Fire scene where you retrieve his body (remember, Mantis was not present -- he was in Seychelles with Eli -- and the MoF can't come to life without Mantis). So there were five types of hallucinations, which is decent. Overdo it and they could lose their novelty.

But the game gave the implied feeling that we were going on one big psychological nuclear trip.

The game needed sanity effects based on recent damage taken and straight up moments of completely making you see things that aren't really there, really eerie shit, basically the easiest way to justify Venom becoming a Demon is by having the horn in his brain completely fuck him over until he's seeing kids in Africa as XOF soldiers and nonsense like that.

I want to be walking around Mother Base and see an instance of Paz, Skull Face or even Big Boss himself just walking around a corner off and vanishing, with Venom being the only one to see it, I want to see the false implanted memories coming to life in scary and unexpected ways.

Random Skull encounters in free roam would have been good too.

 

[JayEH]

But the game gave the implied feeling that we were going on one big psychological nuclear trip.

The game needed sanity effects based on recent damage taken and straight up moments of completely making you see things that aren't really there, really eerie shit, basically the easiest way to justify Venom becoming a Demon is by having the horn in his brain completely fuck him over until he's seeing kids in Africa as XOF soldiers and nonsense like that.

I want to be walking around M other Vase and see an instance of Paz, Skull Face or even Big Boss himself just walking around a corner off and vanishing, with Venom being the only one to see it, I want to see the false implanted memories coming to life in scary and unexpected ways.

Random Skull encounters in free roam would have been good too.

I agree with this. But like with everything else in the trailers, it was all BS lol.

 

[The Silver]

We got Paz, we got Skull Face, we got the fire whale and fire pegasus, we got the final Man on Fire scene where you retrieve his body (remember, Mantis was not present -- he was in Seychelles with Eli -- and the MoF can't come to life without Mantis). So there were five types of hallucinations, which is decent. Overdo it and they could lose their novelty.

They didn't have any novelty to lose, the only one of those with any substance is Paz.

 

[Neiteio]

They didn't have any novelty to lose, the only one of those with any substance is Paz.

What I mean is that if Venom was hallucinating with any regularity, we'd get in a mode where we just sort of assume that the odder things we see are hallucinations. Part of the reason the twist of the Paz subplot is surprising is because the hallucinations are so infrequent in the first place.

 

[Xiraiya]

What I mean is that if Venom was hallucinating with any regularity, we'd get in a mode where we just sort of assume that the odder things we see are hallucinations. Part of the reason the twist of the Paz subplot is surprising is because the hallucinations are so infrequent in the first place.

But it's not, as it is now people seem to just assume that they Retconned Ground Zeroes, but if you're at all logical then you KNOW this cannot actually be her or that she can't be real, so you expect the twist, the joy comes from just seeing it play out, which is why more extreme and frequent psychological twists would have been great to see.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

What I mean is that if Venom was hallucinating with any regularity, we'd get in a mode where we just sort of assume that the odder things we see are hallucinations. Part of the reason the twist of the Paz subplot is surprising is because the hallucinations are so infrequent in the first place.

That's a good point.

But as it is now, people seem to just assume that they Retconned Ground Zeroes, but if you're logical, you KNOW this cannot actually be her or that she can't be real, so you expect the twist, the joy comes from just seeing it play out.

It's hard to believe, but are you really putting "retconning a character's death" past the MGS series?

 

[g11]

Indeed, Vulcan Raven is the single member of the group who doesn't have a direct link to Big Boss to our knowledge.

Does Decoy Octopus have a direct link to Big Boss?

 

[Xiraiya]

It's hard to believe, but are you really putting "retconning a character's death" past the MGS series?

No because that's different, but to assume TPP is immediately retconning GZ (two parts of the same game) like that is absolutely insane to me.

 

[funkystudent]

But Vulcan Ravens MGS1 back story was he worked for Outer Heaven before Foxhound in the 90s.

 

[Xiraiya]

Indeed, Vulcan Raven is the single member of the group who doesn't have a direct link to Big Boss to our knowledge.

Actually all of MGS1's Foxhound were part of Big Boss's private guard at one point, Raven is listed as a character in one of the Metal Gear games because he was apparently there at the time, but he was not a character Solid Snake encountered.

 

[Neiteio]

No because that's different, but to assume TPP is immediately retconning GZ (two parts of the same game) like that is absolutely insane to me.

You may think that, but judging from the many posts in the last few threads where people came in asking, "So Paz was just a hallucination," I'd say the bait-and-switch worked. And again, if the viewer had been repeatedly trained to second-guess everything as a hallucination, those people might've not been so easily fooled.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

No because that's different, but to assume TPP is immediately retconning GZ (two parts of the same game) like that is absolutely insane to me.

Nah, it's tame compared to dozens of other twists in this series. There's nothing about the Paz stuff that says hallucination until the connection to the Motherbase soldier capturing. No other hallucinations early in the game are obvious, and the ones that seem like they could be hallucinations don't involve other main characters (Ocelot or Miller). You have to be exaggerating and/or forgetting crap from past games.

 

[koryuken]

I'm still, in a dream.

Such a lust for revenge. Just got all the endings. God, the psycho mantis arch and volgin were so bad. Terrible explanations lol.

 

[A-V-B]

I agree with this. But like with everything else in the trailers, it was all BS lol.

Why doesn't Kojima just make a trailer first, and then try to match it? Instead of cobbling together a bunch of completely unconnected elements from a game and making it look like something it's not?

 

[Xiraiya]

Nah, it's tame compared to dozens of other twists in this series. There's nothing about the Paz stuff that says hallucination until the connection to the Motherbase soldier capturing. No other hallucinations early in the game are obvious, and the ones that seem like they could be hallucinations don't involve other main characters (Ocelot or Miller). You have to be exaggerating and/or forgetting crap from past games.

She comes out of literally no where as if nothing happened, no radio telling you they found her, nothing.

Her hair is exactly as it was in PW despite the fact it was shaved off in GZ and then mysteriously styled back to how she had it in PW rather than being long and shaggy or anything close to resembling someone who has been missing 9 years, who cut and styled her hair?
Her Scar is still fresh despite it being nearly a decade old she also literally looks no older than she did in GZ, for older characters that makes sense, for a young girl going through as much shit as Paz did, that is laughable.

Everything about her is clearly "frozen in time" so that encounter is nothing but totally surreal.

 

[Neiteio]

She comes out of literally no where as if nothing happened, no radio telling you they found her, nothing.

Her hair is exactly as it was in PW despite the fact it was shaved off in GZ and then mysteriously styled back to how she had it in PW rather than being long and shaggy or anything close to resembling someone who has been missing 9 years, who cut and styled her hair?
Her Scar is still fresh despite it being nearly a decade old she also literally looks no older than she did in GZ, for older characters that makes sense, for a young girl going through as much shit as Paz did, that is laughable.

Everything about her is clearly "frozen in time" so that encounter is nothing but totally surreal.

Ocelot talks about her recurring flesh wound like it's a medical mystery, saying the doctors can't explain it. They don't know why it stays fresh. They think she might be preventing it from healing. And regarding the hair, I don't find that unusual at all. Hair grows back, and styling one's hair is a dignity issue for some. It's not outlandish to think that once her hair grew back, she began styling it again.

What made me suspicious, right from the start, was the way Ocelot and Kaz walk into the room right after Venom. It seemed odd they would just happen to be there on the medical platform when I visited. It seemed "too perfect," in other words. Which made me think something was up.

At any rate, the point is I can see how people would be suspicious, but I can also see how people would fall for the bait-and-switch. And it's easier to fall for it when hallucinations aren't constantly happening all the time.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

She comes out of literally no where as if nothing happened, no radio telling you they found her, nothing.

Her hair is exactly as it was in PW despite the fact it was shaved off in GZ and then mysteriously styled back to how she had it in PW rather than being long and shaggy or anything close to resembling someone who has been missing 9 years, who cut and styled her hair?
Her Scar is still fresh despite it being nearly a decade old she also literally looks no older than she did in GZ, for older characters that makes sense, for a young girl going through as much shit as Paz did, that is laughable.

Everything about her is clearly "frozen in time" so that encounter is nothing but totally surreal.

And there's a big chunk of dialogue devoted to explaining her metal state, she sticks around for ages, gets subsequent cutscenes with other characters and takes up physical space you return to over and over.

There's nothing else like this in the game, and it being extremely suspect/surreal doesn't place it closer to "100% unbelievable" on the believability scale compared to arms controlling people's minds, other retconned deaths, retcons of arms controlling people, all the nanomachine stuff, Campbell's MGS2 codecs, and so on.

Believing Paz is still alive outright? That's too far considering the stuff you mentioned. Wondering whether she might still be alive after being anything other than completely ignorant of the series? Reasonable, and you know it.

 

[Xiraiya]

Believing Paz is still alive outright? That's too far considering the stuff you mentioned. Wondering whether she might still be alive after being anything other than completely ignorant of the series? Reasonable, and you know it.

Oh no I do get that, I'm just saying that in my experience there are people who tended to assume it was a straight up retcon for no reason, which is what bothered me.

 

[Johndoey]

Ocelot talks about her recurring flesh wound like it's a medical mystery, saying the doctors can't explain it. They don't know why it stays fresh. They think she might be preventing it from healing. And regarding the hair, I don't find that unusual at all. Hair grows back, and styling one's hair is a dignity issue for some. It's not outlandish to think that once her hair grew back, she began styling it again.

What made me suspicious, right from the start, was the way Ocelot and Kaz walk into the room right after Venom. It seemed odd they would just happen to be there on the medical platform when I visited. It seemed "too perfect," in other words. Which made me think something was up.

At any rate, the point is I can see how people would be suspicious, but I can also see how people would fall for the bait-and-switch. And it's easier to fall for it when hallucinations aren't constantly happening all the time.

Considering the fact at no point does anyone mention Paz is on base even in audio tapes, and the fact the GZ audio tape pertaining to the secondary bomb implantation mentions she would die relatively soon because they hastily remove a few organs to make room for the bomb, plus Ocelot flat out mentions that Venom would experience hallucinations and the fact that as a twist it would be too stupid and lazy even for Metal Gear, I truly don't see how anyone would fall for such a transparent ruse,

 

[786110]

Yeah mission 43 (and also what was shown in 51) they show Venom full demon in cutscenes. He knows it's in him, and with the nuclear disarment ending, Venom says he's trying to fight that demon. It's clear he eventually accepts it and embraces it.

I thought the disarmament arc was Kojima attempting to prelude to Zanziber Land's actions in the beginning of Metal Gear 2

Zanzibar Land attacks nuclear
weapons disposal sites around
the world, seizing those weapons
that are still intact, and becomes
the world's only nuclear power.

I'm sort of happy that MG2SS comes out relatively unscathed compared to MG1

 

[Neiteio]

Considering the fact at no point does anyone mention Paz is on base even in audio tapes, and the fact the GZ audio tape pertaining to the secondary bomb implantation mentions she would die relatively soon because they hastily remove a few organs to make room for the bomb, plus Ocelot flat out mentions that Venom would experience hallucinations and the fact that as a twist it would be too stupid and lazy even for Metal Gear, I truly don't see how anyone would fall for such a transparent ruse,

But people did fall for it, for reasons I mentioned. In the world of MGS, especially, none of those things are hard confirms against her until the game reveals its hand.

Organ removal? Look at Quiet and how MGS handled -her- organ removal. Lack of mention? Ocelot could have reasons. And so on.

I mean, I don't have to prove people fell for it -- the proof was all over the last two spoiler threads.

You can think they're dumb, but to go back to the start of this conversation, the point is that if there was a ton of hallucinations in this game, none of them would've even had a chance at being surprising.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Considering the fact at no point does anyone mention Paz is on base even in audio tapes, and the fact the GZ audio tape pertaining to the secondary bomb implantation mentions she would die relatively soon because they hastily remove a few organs to make room for the bomb, plus Ocelot flat out mentions that Venom would experience hallucinations and the fact that as a twist it would be too stupid and lazy even for Metal Gear, I truly don't see how anyone would fall for such a transparent ruse,

A twist to surpass Liquid Arm


You people give this series too much credit for its story if you think this retcon would have been "too stupid and lazy" for it. It's out of the question that someone would never find/listen to that tape in GZ or skip the Motherbase solider side ops, yup yup

 

[razzmahtazz]

We got Paz, we got Skull Face, we got the fire whale and fire pegasus, we got the final Man on Fire scene where you retrieve his body (remember, Mantis was not present -- he was in Seychelles with Eli -- and the MoF can't come to life without Mantis). So there were five types of hallucinations, which is decent. Overdo it and they could lose their novelty.

But the game gave the implied feeling that we were going on one big psychological nuclear trip.

Reposting Chariot's post on hallucinations and my additions to it. So much potential

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I thought the disarmament arc was Kojima attempting to prelude to Zanziber Land's actions in the beginning of Metal Gear 2



I'm sort of happy that MG2SS comes out relatively unscathed compared to MG1

Ohh, I gotta play them, but I have to big of a backlog for this.

 

[Golnei]

I don't necessarily think increasing the focus on hallucinations would make players less susceptible to the Paz subplot - not only would most ingame hallucinations ideally be incorporeal and surreal, as opposed to the slightly more believable Paz scene; but it could also work as a way to subvert the idea of Mother Base as a 'safe space'. Especially if sanity effects were tied to damage and prolonged stress, they'd almost always appear in gameplay on the Afghanistan and Africa maps, while the player would be subconsciously trained to regard anything happening on Mother Base as real. Potentially, it could lead to an even greater sense of shock and confusion.

What made me suspicious, right from the start, was the way Ocelot and Kaz walk into the room right after Venom. It seemed odd they would just happen to be there on the medical platform when I visited. It seemed "too perfect," in other words. Which made me think something was up.

I still think they should have done something with Ocelot and Kaz's models for that scene - their impossible entrance directly behind Venom was well done, but they could have gone a little further with details the player would overlook at first, but would become incredibly obvious in hindsight.

 

[Johndoey]

A twist to surpass Liquid Arm


You people give this series too much credit for its story if you think this retcon would have been "too stupid and lazy" for it. It's out of the question that someone would never find/listen to that tape in GZ or skip the Motherbase solider side ops, yup yup

Fine I'll give you that, but still the whole thing was hallucination city, it had all the normal hallmarks of a hallucination in media, person thought dead located in a semi-private area no one else goes too, no mention of person or area, person appears in good health, person only interacts with afflicted character. Guys watch more films!

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

I have just realized... This game was supposed to be MGS2 all over again.

Play a kickass intro to the new gameplay mechanics in what ultimately became "Ground Zeroes", then BOOM, shit goes down.

Cue cutscenes from the Truth tapes. *the Venom/"Raiden" reveal.*

Big Boss doesn't fuck off right at the start but instead trades places with Venom, becoming a regular foot soldier, or "Plisken" if you will... Making sure the new guy doesn't fuck up while attending to the real shit happening elsewhere, his AWOL clone and Tretj Rebenok.

Skullface would have had a great Solidus "I am Solid Snake" bullshit moment where he tries to trick Venom into thinking he didn't really do shit in Operation Snake Eater, that it was all staged to be a tragedy between mentor and pupil, and it was him and XOF doing all the work.

Then cue in Big Boss like, nuh-uh bitch... Takes off his balaclava, jumps from the chopper and Skull face and Venom shit their pants, minor boss fight ensues...

Then move onto chapter 3 aka mission 51, where you begrudgingly team up with real boss and DD and battle gear to bring Eli back into custody.

Then there's a fallout between Venom, Boss and Miller and Ocelots all like

Credits.

Solid Snake gets sent to wreck Venom's shit.

THE END.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Reposting Chariot's post on hallucinations and my additions to it. So much potential

This phantom pain is real.

Wish Kojima had altered the supernatural stuff ratio from 80/20 to 50/50 or even more, favoring the supernatural. It's one of the best aspects of the series.

Fine I'll give you that, but still the whole thing was hallucination city, it had all the normal hallmarks of a hallucination in media, person thought dead located in a semi-private area no one else goes too, no mention of person or area, person appears in good health, person only interacts with afflicted character. Guys watch more films!

I suppose it's because this kind of thing is not really done in the industry all that much, so it's surprising when it's done, and to be honest, it was well done in this side story (if you can call that a side story).

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Fine I'll give you that, but still the whole thing was hallucination city, it had all the normal hallmarks of a hallucination in media, person thought dead located in a semi-private area no one else goes too, no mention of person or area, person appears in good health, person only interacts with afflicted character. Guys watch more films!

Nope! Doubly doesn't work since most games are only played from a single playable character's perspective. Not to mention the other characters who are shown to acknowledge her give an convoluted (thus consistent with MGS) explanation for her mental trauma (i.e. not in good health). But yeah, even though it's unlike any other actual hallucination in the game (of which there are very few), it's obviously strange and out-there.

Solid Snake gets sent to wreck Venom's shit.

THE END.

A completely hudless final boss against Solid Snake that you cna't win would've been great.

 

[Johndoey]

Nope! Doubly doesn't work since most games are only played from a single playable character's perspective. Not to mention the other characters who are shown to acknowledge her give an convoluted (thus consistent with MGS) explanation for her mental trauma (i.e. not in good health). But yeah, even though it's unlike any other actual hallucination in the game (of which there are very few), it's obviously strange and out-there.



A completely hudless final boss against Solid Snake that you cna't win would've been great.

I don't know why this is tripping me up, but the concept of not immediately knowing its a hallucination is bizarre to me.

 

[Reebot]

I don't know why this is tripping me up, but the concept of not immediately knowing its a hallucination is bizarre to me.

Yeah its brazenly apparent.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

A completely hudless final boss against Solid Snake that you cna't win would've been great.

"We're not done with Solid Snake"-Kojima

Way to play with our expectations. I think many people thought we were gonna have an epilogue with Operation N313, playing as Solid, or what you're saying at least.

 

[Pavaloo]

what the fuck was that

 

[Johndoey]

what the fuck was that

Hmm?

 

[Pavaloo]

i just finished the game i guess lol

i heard it ends abruptly, but i was still caught off guard