"Elaine, I can't take my eyes off the passion"
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
brianmcdoogle
Member
I've reached acceptance and skipped over many emotions to get to it, mostly due to a lot of film watching that resulted in disappointments.
I'd rather have an artist release a failed and miserable or incomplete product than corporate shills pushing whatever line item garbage that might make money.
I'd rather have an artist release a failed and miserable or incomplete product than corporate shills pushing whatever line item garbage that might make money.
Warablo
Member
Yes, I think my 46 unlocked after 3 side ops, when I had all my tapes and stuff cleared.
Finally the collection is complete!
I wish I played Rising on the same console but oh well, it will have to do.
According to the stats screen:
It took 157 hours! That's as much as what MGS2, 3 and 4 combined took me.
I had a lot of fun though. I can say I absolutely loved the gameplay. I can definitely see myself carrying on playing the game, which is always a sign that a game is something special.
Like mostly everyone else, I was disappointed by the story and characters. The game showed lots of promise on those aspects (well, apart from Quiet, it was pretty obvious the game was going to handle her in a terrible manner from the start) and just didn't deliver.
But this is one of those cases where on aspect of the game (the gameplay) is so good it single-handedly makes the game worth playing.
I'm not sure if it's going to be my game of the year (Bloodborne is outstanding too and I've yet to play The Witcher 3), but it'll definitely be a very strong contender.
I wish I played Rising on the same console but oh well, it will have to do.
According to the stats screen:
It took 157 hours! That's as much as what MGS2, 3 and 4 combined took me.
I had a lot of fun though. I can say I absolutely loved the gameplay. I can definitely see myself carrying on playing the game, which is always a sign that a game is something special.
Like mostly everyone else, I was disappointed by the story and characters. The game showed lots of promise on those aspects (well, apart from Quiet, it was pretty obvious the game was going to handle her in a terrible manner from the start) and just didn't deliver.
But this is one of those cases where on aspect of the game (the gameplay) is so good it single-handedly makes the game worth playing.
I'm not sure if it's going to be my game of the year (Bloodborne is outstanding too and I've yet to play The Witcher 3), but it'll definitely be a very strong contender.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
You're pretty good.
Stereogatari
Banned
Finally the collection is complete!
I wish I played Rising on the same console but oh well, it will have to do.
According to the stats screen:
It took 157 hours! That's as much as what MGS2, 3 and 4 combined took me.
I had a lot of fun though. I can say I absolutely loved the gameplay. I can definitely see myself carrying on playing the game, which is always a sign that a game is something special.
Like mostly everyone else, I was disappointed by the story and characters. The game showed lots of promise on those aspects (well, apart from Quiet, it was pretty obvious the game was going to handle her in a terrible manner from the start) and just didn't deliver.
But this is one of those cases where on aspect of the game (the gameplay) is so good it single-handedly makes the game worth playing.
I'm not sure if it's going to be my game of the year (Bloodborne is outstanding too and I've yet to play The Witcher 3), but it'll definitely be a very strong contender.
That's pretty damn cool.
In a game that lets you take photos of the Beasts while they pose I'm not sure these two characters would have been the first ones to come to mind.
The Silver
Member
I think everyone is downplaying the sexiness of MGS1 Liquid, I blame PS1 graphics.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Hello, Spoiler thread. I just finished Mission 46. Mind officially fucking blown.
Ah, almost forgot about that:
Makes me wonder how we fell for Kojima's "words and deeds" promise about Quiet.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
That's a great write up.
Yeah, Kojima definitely gave us what we asked for, just not what we wanted (a la MGS2). It's brilliant.
The whole sinew effect was interesting. It seems we see her musculature under two conditions: 1) when she goes invisible, as though the parasites are cloaking her one layer at a time (skin, and then musculature), hence we briefly see her sinew, and 2) when her muscle tissue hardens, another feature of the parasites, such as when she delivers the crotch kick in M45 I think the idea is her leg hardened like a sledgehammer (I wince just thinking about it).Quiet's mid-teleport skinless model is now my favourite costume for her.
Hopefully, it'll inspire cosplayers as much as the original - I can't seem to find anything in between 'normal' and 'skeleton'.
Friends don't let friends smoke.
Quiet and Ocelot are clearly assholes, Kaz is the one true bro.
He let him take the cigar to smoke it later, but he stopped him from lighting it on his candles. Sort of a 'you can have it back when you behave', kind of thing. After his dismemberment and growing alienation towards Big Boss, Miller probably felt like he was losing control, manifesting in small gestures like that; the increasingly desperate calls for Venom to come back to Mother Base, and the insistence on spanking Venom with his prosthetic arm to maintain discipline between missions.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
Yes, this would be pretty fucking great if it was evident in the game's script, instead of essays on fucking Wolbachia parasites.
In the real world there is just no proof kojima intended that to be the message out of this disjointed shit sandwich of a story.
I'm sure if he read your takeaway on it he'd be like
That's the thing about the Medic. He isn't me, he's a character who vaguely resembles me for 20 seconds.
I don't give a fuck about Paz, he does. I'd devote my life to killing a dude who made me into him, he doesn't. I'd at the very least slap Huey up for what he did, Medic Boss stops just short of sending him away with a bouquet of roses.
I don't give a fuck about Paz, he does. I'd devote my life to killing a dude who made me into him, he doesn't. I'd at the very least slap Huey up for what he did, Medic Boss stops just short of sending him away with a bouquet of roses.
Well, the Medic isn't you. Not in the story. He's you in the meta-narrative sense of overcoming adversity. Your skill, your ingenuity allowed you to overcome the challenges that were crafted for you by the game designers. And you didn't need any particular genes, etc., to do that.
Allowing the player to decide the Medic's face is just a personal touch that gives you more direct ownership over the idea your skill played a part. It's a nice gesture from Kojima to the player.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
What's more pertinent in the overall story?
A half baked plot about a cookie cutter villain and fucking strep throat? Or the scheming of the purported hero of the timeline?
It's not skillfully delivered. That's all.
Kojima is an awful storyteller.
Stereogatari
Banned
Change the character in-game to your avatar. Replay the missions. Wallah you are now remembering how you really looked in those missions.
Death Metalist
Member
Pretty much, it's a matter of going through everything again with the twist in mind and piecing everything together. Heck the last shot of BB on the bike staring at the camera says it all. "That's right bitches, I've fucked everyone over including the player."
They're both important. MGSV is Venom's story. It's not MGS5, it's MGSV. We see what he goes through, the burden he inherits and the good he manages to accomplish, and in the end that contrasts with the cowardice of the person who took advantage of him, the same cowardice that leads into the power struggle of the next 60 years.
And thus the twist doesn't work.
The message of 'I'm Big Boss' is meaningless, and the meta narrative fails.
And no, it goes beyond his face being a personal touch. He has my name too. He's supposed to represent more than my skill.
Raiden and MGS2 handled the meta-narrative so much better it's almost staggering. MGSV's attempts are a mess.
Cheers! I kinda fell in love with the series when I played it for the first time this year
Can't believe I never played it before haha.
Did anyone really fall for that? I mean it's quite obvious the guy's a perv.
I think it works fine because the meta-narrative is your skill powering the gameplay component. I don't think it was meant to represent anything more than that.
Even if you give the character your name, you obviously can't give the character your exact face (and for some players, their physical gender). It's a symbolic nod to the fact that, yes, this game has a story, but your most personal connection to it is your interaction with it, I.E. gameplay.
You're "Big Boss" in the sense that your gameplay skills and ingenuity got you to the end of the story.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
Funny cause that was not my impression at all.
It was just wank about macho Boss puffing his cigar and revving his bike.
I'm not refusing Neiteio's analysis, I'm just saying that having to wade through hours of jargon and dull exposition, then having to pull some mental gymnastics to arrive at the true meaningful shit is just not satisfying. Like, at all, especially not for 40 hour game for fucks sake.
Just get to the fucking point. One thing is to be subliminal and leave things implicit, it's a whole other thing to leapfrog from one idea to the next with no lines connecting the dots.
That's just not how good storytelling works.
Precisely.
V feels almost completely superfluous by comparison in the timeline.
SJRB
Gold Member
There is some bizarre irony in the Paz plotline anyway.
Let's not forget she's a traitor and a terrorist who tried to kill Snake and destroy Mother Base with Zeke. Her being dragged out of the ocean and being captured by Skull Face is the catalyst for the destruction of MSF.
MGSV tries extremely hard to jank your heartstrings and I admit it works (remarkably well), until you remember who/what Paz actually was.
..and don't even get me started on how Venom deals with Huey, because that makes no sense whatsoever considering mission 43 and all.
I respect your opinion, since I know everyone interprets media differently. But I didn't have to do any mental gymnastics here -- it all came readily to me as soon as the shock wore off -- so I think it gels well with what we're given.
For me, it's been fun rethinking every scene in the context of the truth. It's also made me feel more and more for Venom, thinking about the rough hand he was dealt.
Hopefully you'll enjoy it at some point, too.
Death Metalist
Member
That's what I got out of it, for a guy who has one eye his eye says alot. He wasn't smirking or anything, he just looked sinister.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Quiet's mid-teleport skinless model is now my favourite costume for her.
Hopefully, it'll inspire cosplayers as much as the original - I can't seem to find anything in between 'normal' and 'skeleton'.
Quiet has a demon horn too?
Where are you seeing a horn?
Stereogatari
Banned
I honestly can't imagine what it was like for you.Cheers! I kinda fell in love with the series when I played it for the first time this year
Can't believe I never played it before haha.
I played MGS1 when I was 7. I'm now 24 haha. Still obsessing about it.
Actually I can relate to you as I didn't get into Final Fantasy until I was 18.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
I straight up cut the bitch off on her last tape.
I get what Koji was trying to weave with her and the "Medic" and the guilt and the phantoms and the yadda yadda wahey ... But stop. Please. She's the loli girl from the awfulness that was Peace Walker and the Medic is fucking nobody as a character. Literally, he's never been a character. I've got no sympathy for him except "sucks for him".
In fact, I had high hopes after ground zeroes because Paz got killed. I hated everyone out of peace Walker with a passion. Awful, annoying cartoon characters all around written incoherently as vehicles for whatever heavy handed message Kojima felt like laying down.
matrix-cat
Member
So, hey, the game explains that Quiet can turn invisible, breath through her skin, use both eyes independently, shoot between helicopter blades, all that stuff because of vocal chord parasites, the Wolbachia, Myelin sheaths and the Diné, right?
Do they ever explain how she can also... like, disintegrate at the molecular level, or whatever trick she was pulling to just slip those handcuffs off her wrists? Or glide down out of the helicopter really weirdly? And presumably walk through the bars of her cell like the T-1000? Was that just a cool thing Kojima wanted her to do in a cutscene but didn't want to think up a paragraph of bullshit for? Why did technology ever move on to nanomachines when parasites can do all that?
Do they ever explain how she can also... like, disintegrate at the molecular level, or whatever trick she was pulling to just slip those handcuffs off her wrists? Or glide down out of the helicopter really weirdly? And presumably walk through the bars of her cell like the T-1000? Was that just a cool thing Kojima wanted her to do in a cutscene but didn't want to think up a paragraph of bullshit for? Why did technology ever move on to nanomachines when parasites can do all that?
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
Great. A sinister look at the end of the game doesn't make me go "OOOOOOOOH SHIT SON GENIUS."
Kojima isn't Nicolas Winding Refn, and BB isn't played by Ryan Gosling.
If V Boss was less stoic and BB was around to contrast this, it could have worked.
But a chin down eyes up after the fake out reveal is beyond lazy.
This part is just my interpretation, but I think Venom's take on Paz reflects his forgiving nature. He's giving her the benefit of the doubt, and trusting that he saw glimmers of the "real Paz" during their time on Mother Base. Either that, or he has an irrational affection for her, like a father with a troubled daughter.
I mean, the last Paz tape shows he's clearly aware of her betrayal, so he knows she fucked up. The tape talks about how she hijacked ZEKE and fought with Snake. And yet he still sees something in her. That same ability to empathize with monsters is probably what allowed him to see something human in Quiet.
Or maybe it's just the message Paz shared. The real Paz was a hypocrite (something the final tape also acknowledges), but that doesn't mean the message of mercy is without merit. That's the important takeaway. Venom is realizing the folly of revenge. You can only trigger the second and third Paz cutscenes (and thus the final tape) once you're in Ch. 2, after Skull Face is dead and he found no fulfillment in it (evident as soon as he's back at Mother Base and sees Skull Face's "ghost").
I mean, the last Paz tape shows he's clearly aware of her betrayal, so he knows she fucked up. The tape talks about how she hijacked ZEKE and fought with Snake. And yet he still sees something in her. That same ability to empathize with monsters is probably what allowed him to see something human in Quiet.
Or maybe it's just the message Paz shared. The real Paz was a hypocrite (something the final tape also acknowledges), but that doesn't mean the message of mercy is without merit. That's the important takeaway. Venom is realizing the folly of revenge. You can only trigger the second and third Paz cutscenes (and thus the final tape) once you're in Ch. 2, after Skull Face is dead and he found no fulfillment in it (evident as soon as he's back at Mother Base and sees Skull Face's "ghost").
Handcuffs? Escape artist, I guess. Bars in her cell? Well, Ocelot has a whole tape about how he relaxed security and reduced the lock on her cell to see if she'd try to escape. This was when they were still testing her, to see if they can trust her. So she starts getting out more and more, but they're trusting her more at that point, so it's no biggie. (Although I sure as hell wouldn't be comfortable with my would-be assassin walking about!)matrix-cat said:
So, listening to the casette tapes, apparently the PFs love Big Boss so much that if anything happened to him they would stop working for Cipher, and thus BB being alive is actually a big deterrent and we shouldnt worry about anything happening to him.
Hhhhhhmmmm.
"We have no reason to fear for your safety, so let us proceed with a convoluted body double scheme to serve as a diversion! Btw the whole world wants you dead even though they love you at the same time"
Hhhhhhmmmm.
"We have no reason to fear for your safety, so let us proceed with a convoluted body double scheme to serve as a diversion! Btw the whole world wants you dead even though they love you at the same time"
Death Metalist
Member
I didn't think it was genius but I was like
I see what Kojima was doing and I liked it even though the execution could have been way better. There's something to be said about the fact that only Kojima can get 80 million dollars to make a game that says fuck you, you're not Big Boss. Lmao, that's just fucking crazy. I liked it, it's the type of crazy I expect from an MGS game and no other game and it still surprised me.
To be honest, I was expecting something way more crazier that has to do with wormholes.
Stereogatari
Banned
These are the emotions Kojima wanted you to have. You are feeling the Phantom Pain.
Kojima is also feeling the Phantom Pain. This is the emotion Kojima wanted Kojima to have.
Cue horned Kojima looking into mirror and smashing it. Then smirking.
BB was shaken because someone -did- try to kill him, and nearly did. Remember, Skull Face was a rogue agent. He worked for Cipher, but he was following his own agenda against Zero's wishes. And Skull Face not only destroyed Mother Base, he nearly blew up Big Boss.
When TPP starts, BB is going along with a plan that violates his principles. He has reached the point where his goal of creating a military nation takes priority over the soldiers he once swore to protect. In fact, he's willing to use them.
Berserker976
Member
I'm still really not seeing this whole: "the medic gets softer" thing. I mean, if his character development was supposed to be him realizing the folly of revenge and becoming a better person or whatever, why is he so on board with Big Boss' plan at the end? I mean, the guy has clearly continued to do some heinous shit, and he seems giddy about the prospect of fulfilling his role.
I don't think the Paz tapes are supposed to be anything more than him coming to terms with his failure in GZ. The only other real evidence for his "change in heart" is the Huey stuff, and it seems far more likely that he spared Huey because Huey has plot armor.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I'm probably going to regret this but...
...why is everyone upset with the ending...?
...why is everyone upset with the ending...?
Berserker976
Member
Because it makes the entire game a pointless diversion.