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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

I've spent weeks in the neverbegameover thread on reddit. "Men become demons" But seriously it's not over yet... Kojima said over a year ago the game was finished, there's no reason to believe they ran out of time. VELIEVE

It's part of the charm of MGS. I don't partake in the ride but I enjoy watching it, it will be very interesting if anything came out of it.

I'm with you, man. I'm just bummed this is the first and last time we get to see Venom.

I want a retcon where Quiet comes back and becomes Venom's waifu.

Since you have the guide book can you post what's written about MG1 and 2? From what I read when I had my bro's guide book, Koji seemed like he wanted to remake MG1 & 2 after 5. I mean he literally wrote they're dated as fuck, not literally of course but something to that effect. If people remember the MGS2 days, it was meant to be his last MGS back in the day and it also ended in a complete mind fuck that had more questions than answers, much more than MGSV lol.

Edit: The game didn't even reach classic status until a few individuals took the time to analyze and piece everything within that game.
 
https://youtu.be/alxN1i1GagM?t=278

"The missing link that completes the saga" sure many people have pointed out they would've preferred seeing Grey Fox, Sniper Wolf instead of randoms guys that become irrelevant once the game ends.

Kojami's words not the fans really, they promised X and delivered Y playing us like a fiddle in the process, so, Mission complete Boss!

Not that it was obligated to do so, that it promised it do so.

Well Kojima heavily suggested it will in trailers and interviews. "The missing link", "In outer heaven men become demons", teasing Solid snake, etc. Everyone is upset because kojima with his own words set everyone up for disappointment. It's not like everyone is getting the idea of this being the game that bridges the gap between MGS and MG1 on their own.

That would be a failure of the marketing, not a failure of the game.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Despite all this controversy, why do I still have the feeling this will be Gaf's game of the year for 2015? This or Bloodborne, but i don't think enough people have played it, being exclusive and all.

I don't think I have had this much fun with a game since the first time I played Dark Souls in 2013, seriously. The many words thrown at this game are unfinished, disappointing, vague, irrelevant, stupid, and so on. And while those of these words ring true, the only word I can conjure when I think of MGSV is fun.

All the gushing aside, my biggest disappointment with this game was the treatment of the themes. That whole "language" theme had me intrigued, especially when I saw that Elegia trailer. As a consumer of all sorts of fiction from books to movies to TV shows to videogames, the idea of identity through language and the cultural genocide of assimilation is a theme I wish was explored more often. Skullface's backstory could have made for a real tragedy, I really feel like this character was not done the justice he deserved.
 

Neiteio

Member
I love this game, but I think I'm also in love with its complicated reception. People have complex feelings about this stuff, and everyone untangling their emotional knot has been fascinating.
 

Neiteio

Member
Since you have the guide book can you post what's written about MG1 and 2? From what I read when I had my bro's guide book, Koji seemed like he wanted to remake MG1 & 2 after 5. I mean he literally wrote they're dated as fuck, not literally of course but something to that effect. If people remember the MGS2 days, it was meant to be his last MGS back in the day and it also ended in a complete mind fuck that had more questions than answers, much more than MGSV lol.
Give me a moment to look into this. I'll start by checking the write-ups for the individual games, although I don't think Kojima's comments would be there. Maybe on the timeline?
 
IDK man Paz seemed to be super into it, she was moaning a lot. The medic was deep in that tight body.
latest

That would be a failure of the marketing, not a failure of the game.

Well, it's not like the game refutes this reputation of failure.
 
Give me a moment to look into this. I'll start by checking the write-ups for the individual games, although I don't think Kojima's comments would be there. Maybe on the timeline?

There's a small note concerning MG1 and 2 and when you go to read about that. I haven't read the timeline myself but I thought the note was very interesting.

That would be a failure of the marketing, not a failure of the game.

Reminds me of this.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Sorry you feel that way. For me it gets better the more I think about it. I liked it from the start but it's only gotten better the more we've discussed it.

Is this the most divisive an MGS game has even been with the fans? Feels like it.

Same here, I've loved your posts Neiteio, had really gotten me to think about the game a lot.
 
Just beat mission 46.

I lost count how many times "Created by Hideo Kojima" appeared on the screen. More than 50 I would say.

What an egomaniac!

It's almost like he knew Konami would fire him and attempt to scrub his name from all webpages and cover art of the game...
 

Neiteio

Member
Since you have the guide book can you post what's written about MG1 and 2? From what I read when I had my bro's guide book, Koji seemed like he wanted to remake MG1 & 2 after 5. I mean he literally wrote they're dated as fuck, not literally of course but something to that effect. If people remember the MGS2 days, it was meant to be his last MGS back in the day and it also ended in a complete mind fuck that had more questions than answers, much more than MGSV lol.
OK, from pg. 344:

"Note: Naturally, for the two games developed at the very beginning of this intensely story-rich series, the events that occur during their specific time period only swim into recognizable focus for most players when viewed through the lens of prior or subsequent episodes. They remain canon, of course, but large portions of their dialogue and developments are now taken with a -generous- pinch of salt. Our brief focus here rests upon revelations and developments that actually appear in other episodes."

It then proceeds to analyze the plots of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2.

Now the note isn't attributed to Kojima himself, but since the entire guide was approved by Kojima and written under his supervision, I suppose this is him acknowledging the games are dated. Nothing about him wanting to remake them, though. Not in this part, at least. I'll keep looking.
 

JayEH

Junior Member
That would be a failure of the marketing, not a failure of the game.

Sure but things get attacked for false marketing all the time. I like many others had a certain expectation of what the game would do. Kojima misled everyone whether intentionally or not. I didn't like it. I don't think I have to like being deceived to just because this Kojima and MGS.

I love this game, but I think I'm also in love with its complicated reception. People have complex feelings about this stuff, and everyone untangling their emotional knot has been fascinating.

Oh yeah for sure. It just goes to show how much people care about the series. How many games can you think of that have a 3rd spoiler thread lol. I like discussing all this stuff and even though it might not seem like it sometimes I respect everyone's opinion.
 
OK, from pg. 344:

"Note: Naturally, for the two games developed at the very beginning of this intensely story-rich series, the events that occur during their specific time period only swim into recognizable focus for most players when viewed through the lens of prior or subsequent episodes. They remain canon, of course, but large portions of their dialogue and developments are now taken with a -generous- pinch of salt. Our brief focus here rests upon revelations and developments that actually appear in other episodes."

It then proceeds to analyze the plots of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2.

Now the note isn't attributed to Kojima himself, but since the entire guide was approved by Kojima and written under his supervision, I suppose this is him acknowledging the games are dated. Nothing about him wanting to remake them, though. Not in this part, at least. I'll keep looking.

Yeah, this is what I meant. He doesn't say anything about remaking it but I get a strong sense of that's what he wanted his team to do next after MGS5 while he works as a producer of sorts on it, sort of like Twin Snakes.
 

Neiteio

Member
Yeah, this is what I meant. He doesn't say anything about remaking it but I get a strong sense of that's what he wanted his team to do next after MGS5 while he works as a producer of sorts on it, sort of like Twin Snakes.
I can't remember where I read it, but for what it's worth, I remember reading an interview where Kojima said the one he'd like to remake is MGS1, and I remember him saying he feels a modern reinterpretation could be really interesting.

I kind of cynically saw this as a desire to over-complicate one of the simpler entries by bringing in all of the new lore that's been added since then, lol.
 
I can't remember where I read it, but for what it's worth, I remember reading an interview where Kojima said the one he'd like to remake is MGS1, and I remember him saying he feels a modern reinterpretation could be really interesting.

I kind of cynically saw this as a desire to over-complicate one of the simpler entries by bringing in all of the new lore that's been added since then, lol.

Yeah, from what I remember that was before MGS5 ever happened if I'm not mistaken. However, he always has said he'd like to be a producer of a new MGS game. Reading the small note from the guide makes me believe there is a reason for why it's there and I bet there's a part of him right now that would love to remake MG1 and MG2 which is perfect because I'm not sure many care enough to replay those games. They would rather watch a walkthrough or just read a wiki.
 
Despite all this controversy, why do I still have the feeling this will be Gaf's game of the year for 2015? This or Bloodborne, but i don't think enough people have played it, being exclusive and all.

Thought it was a shoe-in back in Sept 1, now I'm not so sure. People point back to MGS4 being GOTY twice, but that was 2008. The biggest AAA comp that year was GTAIV(which is even more hated/divisive on this website), LittleBigPlanet(lol), and Fallout 3. Put it 2007 with SMG, Portal, Bioshock, etc. Or the year after with Arkham Aslyum or Uncharted 2.

Now the consensus around this game seems to be the actual stealth gameplay is amazing. Intuitive controls, slick interface, great level design, lot of freedom to experiment and execute missions to your liking, crunchy sound design, 1080p/60fps clarity. That shit all works. If it was any other series, that be great. There's a fuckin' dog with an eyepatch as a sidekick in here, b.

But this is MGS. This is a series who's lasting appeal has been his storytelling, its narrative, its characters. Hell, we're in a spoiler thread right now where we can talk about anything MGS5, and 99% of is discussion about the merits(or lack thereof) of that same said narrative, if you needed any more proof. And the consensus on that has been some degree of disappointment, from minor to major. This thread is calmer, because most people have already beat it, complained about it, then moved on, with mostly the guys who really loved it(Neiteio, Screaming Meat, Death Metalist, SomTervo) left to preach to the unconverted stragglers. But just yesterday we had like, half a dozen threads on the front page complaining about MGSV, like I aint never seen that for another game before. Certainly didn't see that for The Witcher 3 or Bloodborne. If I had to guess, it could be one of those. Especially with their expansions coming out this quarter and being fresh in the mind.
 

Reebot

Member
That would be a failure of the marketing, not a failure of the game.

If only we knew who directed and edited the trailers.

This is a prequel game, no matter what happens in it to me the paths leading to the other games are already set to stone. The direction in which the story is going to be heading can't be changed because that's the nature of a prequel game yet I was still surprised in the end. You should play more games if the story to you in MGS5 is plain bad. What you should have said is that the story was not satisfying to you which is a valid complaint, to me it was though but then again I wasn't expecting much to be honest.

If your reference point for story quality is other video games you should really reconsider that standard.
 
But this is MGS. This is a series who's lasting appeal has been his storytelling, its narrative, its characters. Hell, we're in a spoiler thread right now where we can talk about anything MGS5, and 99% of is discussion about the merits(or lack thereof) of that same said narrative, if you needed any more proof. And the consensus on that has been some degree of disappointment, from minor to major. This thread is calmer, because most people have already beat it, complained about it, then moved on, with mostly the guys who really loved it(Neiteio, Screaming Meat, Death Metalist, SomTervo) left to preach to the unconverted stragglers.

Well, I wouldn't say I really loved it but I enjoyed it overall. It surprised me. However, I won't waste my time to convert those who hated the story or didn't enjoy it because that's their problem. Now, something we can all agree on is that the gameplay is fucking amazing and that's a damn fine thing to agree on. For me, my GOTY so far is between MGS5 and Super Mario Maker. Two games that I had the most fun with so far.

If your reference point for story quality is other video games you should really reconsider that standard.

Even then, it stands on it's own as an interesting and engaging video game story with or without the twist but you didn't enjoy it or like it and that's fine. For me and I'm guessing many other people it's hard not to compare it with other video games heck it's why MGS as a series is always being held at a certain standard not seen in other video games.

I don't think that excuse flies this time. This isn't a case of Kojima altering scenes for his trailers to preserve a twist, as he did with MGS2. This time around, he didn't do anything clever or subversive, he simply showed the entire game in the trailers. Scenes from pretty much every cutscene in the game, no matter how late; dialogue from The Truth tapes, it's all in there. I remember getting to the end of Chapter 1 and being stunned that there were still scenes I remembered from the trailers that I hadn't seen yet. Then I finished Chapter 2, and there was still stuff I hadn't seen yet because the trailers featured a couple of scenes that were cut from the game.

The expectation with a trailer is that it shows you snippets of the thing it's teasing. I don't think anyone would have watched those trailers and thought they were seeing every single story beat; it's only natural to expect something more. "If this is what he's showing in trailers, imagine what the full game's going to be like!"

And I really don't think Kojima had any kind of clever scheme this time around. He wasn't rubbing his hands together with maniacal glee, knowing he was getting one over on us. I think the calendar just kept rolling around to big gaming industry events, he kept getting asked to make trailers, and he just had to work with what he had. The game doesn't have a whole lot of story, but he still had to cut together four or five big trailers, so what else could he do?

Well, my point wasn't about if he was clever or not. My point being was that he was always a trickster after MGS2. To me, after experiencing the fuck you of MGS2 I never believed anything from his trailers ever again.

Edit: The whole marketing of this game has been fucking weird and awesome when I think about it. Moby Dick studios, Joakim, CGI VS REAL.etc
 

Neiteio

Member
RE: GAF'S GOTY:

I think Bloodborne will take it. The Older Hunters DLC will come out in November and remind people why they love the game, and that should be enough to secure it GOTY. Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 will also probably be up there. Splatoon and Super Mario Maker will make the list, as well. And while the reception has been complicated, I'm sure MGSV will rank high. I just doubt it'll be able to dethrone Bloodborne.

Personally, I'd be fine with Bloodborne or MGSV winning.
 

Xiraiya

Member
I feel the need to point this out since people seem to have had completely different timings on these events to me.

As of completing chapter 1 (Mission 31) I immediately triggered 3 Motherbase scenes in a row every time I went back to MB from the ACC.

The first one was Shibani's necklace and Quiet going in to grab it.
The second one was Code Talker's "Eyes on Kazuhira speech"
The third was Quiet and Venom splashing in the rain (I had Quiet with me that time obviously)

Code Talker's scene is interesting because everyone I know got it way later in Chapter 2 and assumed it was talking about different stuff around the time of whatever they're doing, however I got this scene IMMEDIATELY upon completing chapter 1, so I assume what he says applies strictly to Motherbase at the moment of that cutscene happening, which sort of changes the intent of what he means.
I'm guessing it might not happen until after Chapter 1 is completed, since Miller takes a rough turn after Skullface's death.
 

Neiteio

Member
I feel the need to point this out since people seem to have had completely different timings on these events to me.

As of completing chapter 1 (Mission 31) I immediately triggered 3 Motherbase scenes in a row every time I went back to MB from the ACC.

The first one was Shibani's necklace and Quiet going in to grab it.
The second one was Code Talker's "Eyes on Kazuhira speech"
The third was Quiet and Venom splashing in the rain (I had Quiet with me that time obviously)

Code Talker's scene is interesting because everyone I know got it way later in Chapter 2 and assumed it was talking about different stuff around the time of whatever they're doing, however I got this scene IMMEDIATELY upon completing chapter 1, so I assume what he says applies strictly to Motherbase at the moment of that cutscene happening.
The guidebook (which I'll say again, is absolutely worth owning if you're an MGS fan) actually has a page breaking down all of the earliest unlock conditions for the Mother Base scenes. I hope you'll forgive me feeling too sleepy to type them up right now, though!
 
The only mistake some people made is that they took every trailer at face value when we all know Kojima loves fucking around with people's expectations. Over the years people's imagination of how the story is going to be like probably became bigger than the game itself despite us knowing before hand that Sutherland won't talk much and the game being more gameplay than cutscene with the addition of tapes in the same vein of PW.

I don't think that excuse flies this time. This isn't a case of Kojima altering scenes for his trailers to preserve a twist, as he did with MGS2. This time around, he didn't do anything clever or subversive, he simply showed the entire game in the trailers. Scenes from pretty much every cutscene in the game, no matter how late; dialogue from The Truth tapes, it's all in there. I remember getting to the end of Chapter 1 and being stunned that there were still scenes I remembered from the trailers that I hadn't seen yet. Then I finished Chapter 2, and there was still stuff I hadn't seen yet because the trailers featured a couple of scenes that were cut from the game.

The expectation with a trailer is that it shows you snippets of the thing it's teasing. I don't think anyone would have watched those trailers and thought they were seeing every single story beat; it's only natural to expect something more. "If this is what he's showing in trailers, imagine what the full game's going to be like!"

And I really don't think Kojima had any kind of clever scheme this time around. He wasn't rubbing his hands together with maniacal glee, knowing he was getting one over on us. I think the calendar just kept rolling around to big gaming industry events, he kept getting asked to make trailers, and he just had to work with what he had. The game doesn't have a whole lot of story, but he still had to cut together four or five big trailers, so what else could he do?
 

Neiteio

Member
This is off-topic but every time I see Death Metalist's avatar I feel like driving to KFC and getting some mashed potatoes and gravy.
 

Neiteio

Member
https://media4.giphy.com/media/2dJ5Iait4QrW8/200.gif[IMG]

You gotta get the complete experience and watch a Chuck Norris film as well. I recommend Code of Silence.[/QUOTE]
I'm now tempted to round up the gang and have a KFC Mashed Potatoes and Chuck Norris Party.

Thank you, good sir.
 
Well, my point wasn't about if he was clever or not. My point being was that he was always a trickster after MGS2. To me, after experiencing the fuck you of MGS2 I never believed anything from his trailers ever again.

There's nothing not to believe about MGSV's trailers, though (unless you count the scenes that didn't make it into the game). They play it entirely straight. They just present the game's entire story in a much more condensed fashion which makes it seem more interesting than it really is when played out over fifty hours or whatever.
 

Kazuhira

Member
I'm with you, man. I'm just bummed this is the first and last time we get to see Venom.

I want a retcon where Quiet comes back and becomes Venom's waifu.

They can escape the exploding Outer Heaven on the RE4 jet ski.

episode 3 soon..
ebOT6OQ.jpg

Anyway,i'm think they are the best couple in the entire franchise tbh.
 
There's nothing not to believe about MGSV's trailers, though (unless you count the scenes that didn't make it into the game). They play it entirely straight. They just present the game's entire story in a much more condensed fashion which makes it seem more interesting than it really is when played out over fifty hours or whatever.

Well, things appeared to be much more different in context. I remember the scene in the trailer where he shoots his own men. People were like "OH MAN THAT'S GONNA BE IN HIS DOWNFALL MOMENT RIGHT? WALKING THAT BLOODY HALLWAY TOO AFTER KILLING HIS MEN SHEEEEEEIIIIT" then you got that other scene with him looking like shooting the kids but yeah, you get what I'm saying. I just didn't take everything I saw as it is and just said yeah, there must be more there, I don't want to expect anything. I also didn't see every trailer 100 times, I saw them all once and by the time the game came out I kind of forgot half of the things I saw.
 

Johndoey

Banned
Poor Quiet... she's suffocating under that dress. Now I feel ashamed of my words and deeds :(

The amount of surface area plants use for photosynthesis is relatively low and can't be properly scaled to the entire human body, the justification for the outfits are terrible because having her head and hands exposed should be adequate.

What amazing surgery did they use on Venom, did they also replace his eyes to match Big Boss? Also digoxin is mostly used for heart rhythm problems cause it'll drop your heart rate, while Venom's heart rate did spike twice previously, the digoxin shot was referred to as a "pick me up" which is odd. It certainly wouldn't help with Venom's movement, fine motor control or any pain he was experiencing. The shot would help keep Venom's heart rate from spiking, but in the situation they were in it wouldn't really be useful.
 
Despite all this controversy, why do I still have the feeling this will be Gaf's game of the year for 2015? This or Bloodborne, but i don't think enough people have played it, being exclusive and all.

I don't think I have had this much fun with a game since the first time I played Dark Souls in 2013, seriously. The many words thrown at this game are unfinished, disappointing, vague, irrelevant, stupid, and so on. And while those of these words ring true, the only word I can conjure when I think of MGSV is fun.

All the gushing aside, my biggest disappointment with this game was the treatment of the themes. That whole "language" theme had me intrigued, especially when I saw that Elegia trailer. As a consumer of all sorts of fiction from books to movies to TV shows to videogames, the idea of identity through language and the cultural genocide of assimilation is a theme I wish was explored more often. Skullface's backstory could have made for a real tragedy, I really feel like this character was not done the justice he deserved.

Unless Fallout 4 blows everyone away MGSV is probably going to win most major outlet GOTY awards. And people on gaf will be incredibly upset about it. And it will be immensely entertaining to read.

It's my personal GOTY, easily. I actually enjoyed the story and the hilariously crazy twist. Bloodborne was good but I have some problems with it (I actually never beat it, I've beaten all but the final two bosses) and that style of game doesn't really appeal to me anymore. Witcher 3 was... okay. The mediocre gameplay isn't really balanced out by the story either. FO4 looks to be a good contender.
 

Golnei

Member
By the way, does Sniper Wolf ever actually mention Big Boss by name in MGS1? I was under the impression she always called him Saladin, with everything else being extrapolation on the part of other characters.

IDK man Paz seemed to be super into it, she was moaning a lot. The medic was deep in that tight body.

sbycb5f.gif


That was the worst shot in the entire game. Was that zoom in on the hand really necessary?

Anyway,i'm think they are the best couple in the entire franchise tbh.

One of the most powerful relationships in any game, really. I wish more writers were capable of showing such a nuanced and compelling non-verbal bond.

Maybe it's the scars but there's def a difference between the two of them (very subtle but it's there)

The face is exactly the same model.
 

KOMANI

KOMANI
By the way, does Sniper Wolf ever actually mention Big Boss by name in MGS1? I was under the impression she always called him Saladin, with everything else being extrapolation on the part of other characters.



sbycb5f.gif


That was the worst shot in the entire game. Was that zoom in on the hand really necessary?



One of the most powerful relationships in any game, really. I wish more writers were capable of showing such a nuanced and compelling non-verbal bond.



The face is exactly the same model.
"QUACK, QUACK BABY"
 

Yousefb

Member
Anyone got any podcasts recommendations that discuss the MGSV story/ending? Ever since I finished episode 46 I've done nothing but immerse myself in fan theories and speculations online lol. None of the regular podcasts I listen to have touched upon the story yet.
 

danm999

Member
I'm with you, man. I'm just bummed this is the first and last time we get to see Venom.

I want a retcon where Quiet comes back and becomes Venom's waifu.

They can escape the exploding Outer Heaven on the RE4 jet ski.

They go on to influence and answer all the unexplained mysterious left in the series in like a Rosencrantz and Guildernstern are dead thing.

Venom and Quiet were the financiers of Philanthropy.

They tell Huey about his son and his second wife.

They deflect the final missile shot at Fortune.

They helped Johnny deal with his IBS.

Anyone got any podcasts recommendations that discuss the MGSV story/ending? Ever since I finished episode 46 I've done nothing but immerse myself in fan theories and speculations online lol. None of the regular podcasts I listen to have touched upon the story yet.

Only one I've seen is a Spoilercast by Giant Bomb where they spend about 1.5 hours discussing the entire game's plot.
 

Tido84

Member
Guys I really need your help here

i finished all yellow side ops and all missions. I saw the cutscenes with emmerich leaving motherbase. Motherbase full upgraded. I can't trigger. Issuing 46. I can't even choose quiet as a side buddy anymore. So I played again both mission with her again and didn't kill her. What do I miss. She should be still playable after I finished all missions right ?

I would highly appreciate any help . I put to much time and effort into this game
 
Guys I really need your help here

i finished all yellow side ops and all missions. I saw the cutscenes with emmerich leaving motherbase. Motherbase full upgraded. I can't trigger. Issuing 46. I can't even choose quiet as a side buddy anymore. So I played again both mission with her again and didn't kill her. What do I miss. She should be still playable after I finished all missions right ?

I would highly appreciate any help . I put to much time and effort into this game

She gone, bro.

Just keep playing side ops and make sure you've listen to all the yellow tapes. 46 will pop up eventually.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Guys I really need your help here

i finished all yellow side ops and all missions. I saw the cutscenes with emmerich leaving motherbase. Motherbase full upgraded. I can't trigger. Issuing 46. I can't even choose quiet as a side buddy anymore. So I played again both mission with her again and didn't kill her. What do I miss. She should be still playable after I finished all missions right ?

I would highly appreciate any help . I put to much time and effort into this game

She's gone.


Forever.
 
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