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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
Inferno313
Banned
No that's new DLC.
Chapter 3 is the real life game we're playing with Konami.
Ironically titled "Peace."
petethepanda
Member
It would be so amazing if they actually pulled some kind of Stanley Parable "Chapter 3 is when you put down the game and live, man."
The Silver
Member
WHHOOOAA HOOOOOOOOOO
oh my words and deeds
Berserker976
Member
Wait... but the "egg" she's talking about is buried in the Mammal Pod, isn't it? not the Patriot AI.
Plus, Strangelove says that when someone finds it and cracks it "there'll be nothing left to stop you"
CambriaRising
Member
WHHOOOAA HOOOOOOOOOO
You can't even research The Patriot in this game. So many missed opportunities.
The mammal pod could have been integrated into the patriot ai system at some point. I don't think there is any real proof, but it is totally plausible.
That last bit could be saying there'll be nothing left to stop you once the Patriots are gone.
I don't feel like listening to 10 minutes of laborious wheezing to check, though, lol.
Berserker976
Member
Is it, though? In the truth tapes it's revealed that Sigint has already put the Patriot AI into practice, and in Strangelove's tape she's talking specifically about code she hid in the Mammal Pod. I think this is just another unresolved plot thread.
Same architecture, perhaps. A backdoor in Strangelove AIs.
Berserker976
Member
https://youtu.be/J1F_0E05ueY?t=8m15s Here's the time stamped video for it if you want to check it yourself. This really feels like reaching though, guys.
Again, she's talking directly to the Mammal Pod here.
The Strangelove bug or whatever is probably intended to be analogous to the Boss's memento Skullface gave Zero that ultimately fucked over Zero ie the one thing that would bring down the system and it'd be whatever the fuck EE stumbled onto in 2.
Unless I'm misunderstanding what is being discussed
which is par the course for Metal Gear
That's pretty cool. I always thought Sunny's ability to deal with the Patriots was a bit handwavey in MGS4.
Yeah, it's hard to tell since she's also talking to The Boss. Did she make the Patriots with her own interpretation of The Boss' will in mind, or just Zero's? If the former, a backdoor could help. But like you say, the Mammal Pod might not be related to the Patriots in any way.
RevolverRoden
Member
It says that in the messages from Konami when you boot up the game right? I couldn't remember if they retaliated or not.
I was half not sure if they retaliated or not and half just messing around/joking.
That's for the next DLC pack, along with the Skull Custom.
The latter is actually fairly likely for DLC, since it's a functional but disabled weapon in the game, much like these DLC costumes were at release.
Konami is just testing us to see how much blatant hostility people will put up with from parasitic media practices before they realise the harm they're causing, and cut them out of their lives - going on to lead a peaceful third chapter of their own lives, where they presumably carpet-bomb a kindergarten in their hearts. It's just social commentary aimed at increasing the awareness of the consumer base, there are clearly no ulterior financial motives here.
Moon_frogger
Member
Nope, I think she was actually referring to the patriot AI which she modeled after the mammal pod. Sorry If I said that in a confusing way. I could be wrong though, maybe I'll go back and listen again.
Is the Skull Custom the gun used by Skull Face?
Yeah, even though she says "you," I'm inclined to think she means her AIs in general, since the Mammal Pod itself no longer serves a purpose going forward. It's only her work on the Patriots that will continue to shape the world in ways that would concern The Boss, and The Boss is who she's addressing in her final words.
Moon_frogger
Member
I mean....it's pretty obvious. 'someday someone will crack the egg and the world will be free?' (paraphrased) lol she's clearly talking about sunny and the the patriot AI, which was supposedly based on the bosses will and was in all likelihood based on her earlier, prototype AI's including mammal pod.
She doesn't literally say she buried anything in the mammal pod either, so I'm with you there. She's clearly having an internal monologue directed at the boss, not some AI construct that she created.
It still could be considered an unresolved plot thread. The mammal pod could easily have been intended to play a greater role in future games as well. Who knows. Either way she's clearly referring to sunny and at the very least it's a cool easter egg.
Seems to be, yes.
There's also a Training Rifle, but that seems more like something actually cut, unless it's intended as a joke weapon in the vein of the Wooden Sword in MGR.
The fact that she uses the phrase "crack the egg" definitely makes it seem like a Patriots reference. MGS4 kept showing Sunny cracking open eggs, which turned out to represent cracking the code that takes down the Patriots. To evoke that imagery here, while speaking to an AI made by the architect of the Patriots, seems a bit much to be mere coincidence.
Moon_frogger
Member
yup. First thing I thought of was sunny cracking eggs at the start of mission 2 while humming the fibbonacci sequence to the tune of MGS theme. lol. It's pretty blatant what Strangelove is referring to.
Berserker976
Member
But... that's is literally what she's saying. You might want to go back and listen, because she is unambiguously talking directly to the Mammal Pod.
I get that there's a connection with the eggs and cracking and whatnot, but it's still a bit far-fetched.
Moon_frogger
Member
I actually just did. She says 'inside you' not 'inside this pod'. as far as talking to the mammal pod I believe that is 100 percent wrong as well. while she's more lucid at the beginning of her imprisonment she's clearly talking to the AI pod. Near the end when she's almost dead, she's clearly talking to Boss, the person. You can literally hear her descent into dilerium and how her tone and the emotion in her voice while addressing the pod becomes more personal and emotional. in then end, she thinks she's talking to the real boss.
I thought it was pretty clear anyway. but as far as unambiguously talking to the mammal pod when she says she hid something, no that is just not true.
Berserker976
Member
This is insane, if she's not referencing the Mammal Pod when she says "you" then who is she referencing, The Boss? So, she buried an egg-like line of code within the Boss? Come on, I know that this seems like it could have been a clever nod to MGS4, but as it stands, from what we know, it's not.
Emma created the virtual Fox Die, and she was one of the main programmers of GW. Sunny created Fox Alive based on Emma's virus, there's simply no room in the canon for Strangelove's code-egg.
unknownhero
Member
well, keep in mind that the emmerich's were notorious for stealing ideas and calling them their own apparently.
Moon_frogger
Member
You really need to listen to the tapes again. She refers to joy and the mammal pod as 2 separate things, calls herself a fool for thinking it was anything other than an artificial construct, she even literally says 'you aren't here anymore, this pod is an empty husk' That straight up debunks any notion that she was talking to the mammal pod. Then she talks about how she was forced to twist the bosses will into the new ai, but that hope wasn't lost because she buried an egg inside it. Seriously, listen to it again. She's talking to joy, not the mammal pod. She even refers to her by name, 'joy'. Just listen to it. It's crystal clear.
As far as 'no room in the Canon' haha....we are talking about Kojima here right? We've all been down this road before.
Berserker976
Member
We must be listening to different tapes, because
^ This is proven untrue in one of the very first things Strangelove says: "But you can hear me, can't you, Joy? I know you can. You're recording all of this."
Strangelove is talking to The Boss through the Mammal Pod. She's talking to both as if they were one entity. Just because she knows that she isn't in reality talking to The Boss herself, doesn't mean she can't pour her heart out to her AI representation.
Yeah, at the moment I'm inclined to think you're right. She's talking to Joy's "spirit" at that point, and it appears she's referring to the new form this will take: The Patriots. (An interpretation of) The Boss' will = The Patriots. If someone abuses her will, there will be a failsafe to stop it.
I haven't made up my mind on this yet, but that's my current read on it.
I don't think this necessarily contradicts Moonfrogger, though. She's talking to Joy through the AI Pod, but doesn't she acknowledge the other forms The Boss' "will" will take? In which case she's talking to The Boss, in her collective form as Spirit, Mammal Pod and Patriots. In which case the egg could be nested in one of two places, and only one of those two places seems relevant for the series' future (and in line with imagery from the series' future).
Berserker976
Member
She refers to The Patriots AI she built as "His will," meaning Zero's.
That does make sense given how things work out. I guess I misremembered that the Patriots had been based in some capacity on Strangelove's interpretation of Joy. Obviously that was true of the Mammal Pod, but I thought there was an element here, too.
I may stand corrected, then. I'm not sure what to make of this exchange. I need to listen to the conversation again.
Moon_frogger
Member
She also refers to it is being a twisted version of her will she talks about being forced to use the bosses will by zero or 'whoever is calling themselves zero' to create the patriots ai. I'm feeling this discussion is getting a bit heated now but I implore you to give that tape a couple more listens. Strangelove makes a clear distinction between joy and the mammal pod, even though you can tell it's extremely difficult and painful for her to do so. I find this frankly fascinating and one of the many interesting bits of writing that has frankly been grossly under scrutinized, along with the Paz subplot and Huey's status as a traitor.
That tape explores strangelove coming to terms with the fact that the mammal pod is NOT joy and how she did her part to pass on her will even though she was forced into using it for what something ultimately twisted and chaotic. What exactly that 'egg' was is anybody's guess but one thing I know with absolute certainty is she didn't hide anything in the mammal pod. In the end it was nothing more than her grave, which is actually chilling as hell and possibly ironic to boot.
Berserker976
Member
lol, this isn't getting heated
(at least on my end) I enjoy healthy Metal Gear debate!I'm just confused as to how you keep claiming she always refers to the boss and the Pod AI as two different things when, in the first two minutes, she does exactly the opposite of that.
Yep, his new voice actor did a great job. I really wanted more Zero, he is actually one of my favorite MGS characters. Loved how you could picture Paz or him during their tape based upon the sounds in the scene.
I find it funny how a huge James Bond nerd like him went on to become a spy-master far beyond 007.
Berserker976
Member
There's definitely some good stuff in the Zero tapes, but during this part all I could think about was this scene from The Naked Gun.
Death Metalist
Member
Me and my bro unintentionally laughed because Zero kept bumping into the table 100 times. We both imagined he was sitting in a room surrounded by tables in a circle while he was in the middle.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
He became a Bond villain, surely?
All his tapes are really good. Skull Face's VA is class too, so hearing their tete-a-tete was a nice surprise. They both nail it.
Moon_frogger
Member
'I've been aFool. Pride. Conceit. Baseless theories. Of course I couldn't see through the dream. The false you I created'lol, this isn't getting heated
I'm just confused as to how you keep claiming she always refers to the boss and the Pod AI as two different things when, in the first two minutes, she does exactly the opposite of that.
like I said, she's slowly coming to this realization the more oxygen she loses and the more delirious she gets. She also says 'even if you're waiting for me in heaven I don't deserve to see you again'. You don't think she's referring to the pod here, do you?
Then in the very last seconds she gasps 'I'm so glad it's you here at the end. I think I can hear your pulse' . My interpretation is that she thinks joy has come to take her to heaven. She's probably just hearing the humming of the pods power supply lol. at this point She's severely oxygen deprived and probably hallucinating, but she has clearly come to terms with the fact that joy is not the mammal pod and never was.
She also talks about passing joys will on through otacon 'my genes, your meme, the father is irrelevant' although I haven't quite figured out what that means either. Lol I've been listening to this tape over and over for the last hour. It's great.
Maybe she feels she has the intrinsic ability to understand the Boss' will, and so will her son since he shares some of her genes.
Berserker976
Member
It is very well acted, but I do wish there were fewer pregnant pauses, makes it harder to find specific bits of dialogue.
I still think it's way more likely and sensible if she's just talking to both at the same time. It's not that she thinks the mammal pod is actually The Boss, it's just that it she's talking to it as one would talk to a deceased loved one at their grave. If their grave had also formerly functioned as a receptacle of their postmortem will and was also recording everything, and had shreds of their soul left in it.
As in writing or deciding to tell a kid that? Because Liquid knew in MGS1.