Alex_Mexico
Member
Eli spoke more in the scrapped Mission 51 than the rest of the game combined.
Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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Eli spoke more in the scrapped Mission 51 than the rest of the game combined.
MajinSweet4
Member
But there not anything like the codec at all. The codec either acted like cut scenes when it fit better than having a cut scene. For example having two characters talking over the radio. We don't really need to see Snake sitting down while he talks. But most of the time those conversations are still actively involved in the narrative at that moment. Not some context-less info dump that could be given to you at many different points. More importantly though, the majority of codec calls that are optional, unlike the tapes are not important narrative driven details. They either have minor bits of info to help fill out the games background or game play related things. This makes way more sense. If you can't fit important parts of the games plot in the actual narrative, something is probably going really wrong with your story.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Sorry, I disagree. They serve pretty much the same function, as far as I can tell. They hold up an absolute shit-ton of the narrative exposition in the MGS1-3, just like the tapes. Most dialogue between characters is found in CODEC calls. Cutscenes also have multiple embedded CODEC conversations in them and wouldn't make much sense without them.
Τhe most important parts of MGS1 and MGS2 are revealed / happening during codec conversations.
Especially MGS2's story is completely engulfed in codec conversations and long monologues.
In fact if someone could only either watch MGS2 cutscenes or listen to codecs, i would prompt him to listen to codecs. He has better chance of understanding the concept of the story through these conversations rather than the actual cutscenes.
MajinSweet4
Member
I specifically addressed that. For example, when Raiden and Emma have codec conversations in MGS2 they happen at a specific time in the games plot for specific reasons. The tapes on the other hand drop gigantic plot points that change huge segments of the franchises lore on you at at seemingly arbitrary points in the game outside of any in the moment plot point. That is not nearly the same thing.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I know, that was when I specifically disagreed.
You could just as well argue that they happen at arbitrary times for a specific reason: CODECs are cheaper to produce than full cutscenes. An in-narrative excuse is contrived for them to happen, even though they make no sense: Jack chatting with EE over CODEC is one such instance. No one is listening in and they are right next to each other. Ames is another: again, right next to each other but this time the enemy may listen in... yet they still need to talk into the CODEC...
Notably, EE's CODEC sequences could be argued to be 60% info dump related to a massive plot point (The Patriot AI, the virus) 30% narrative exposition (her history), and 20% character-related (Hydrophobia and her issues with Hal). What about Ames and President Johnson though? Huge plot points and exposition almost exclusively which fundamentally change huge parts of the lore and reframe the entirety of MGS1.
TPP tapes only ever miss out the character moments, which is my main issue with the story, but as a device they serve essentially the same function.
Don't quite get what you mean here. Did I address it above?
As I said and expanded on above, I really think they are a lot closer in narrative function than you care to admit.
Let's just agree to disagree.
GreyOcelot
Member
i almost forgot about that silly codec shit in MGS2. talking to people who were right in front of you via codec. hahahahaha. the everlasting love that MGS2 seems to get here pushes me in the other direction. fuck that game.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
haha yeah this one right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWK9rXtQk6Y
actually the sort of day to day busywork Mother Base scenes are some of my favorite... probably a big reason I dislike there being no New Game + ... just replaying Missions sort of misses a lot of that stuff.
I like this one too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re2RMqmJU-Q
cool little detail for me was, that guy that had the gun jam? he was one of my very first Diamond Dogs and the very first Diamond Dog to die from the parasite epidemic =(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWK9rXtQk6Y
actually the sort of day to day busywork Mother Base scenes are some of my favorite... probably a big reason I dislike there being no New Game + ... just replaying Missions sort of misses a lot of that stuff.
I like this one too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re2RMqmJU-Q
cool little detail for me was, that guy that had the gun jam? he was one of my very first Diamond Dogs and the very first Diamond Dog to die from the parasite epidemic =(
I am actually going to try in the near future to replay the game doing only yellow stuff. Nothing else. No side ops , no replaying main missions etc.
Just pure yellow story stuff and tapes. I believe this will improve a bit the presentation/pacing of the game and its story.
Haters gonna hate but Kojima always did this, he never gave what people want him to do and i'm glad he never did, an artist must follow is own patch.
They're a difference between what Kojima wants from his story and what fans want it to be, some fans can totally break a lore with their bullshit.
They're a difference between what Kojima wants from his story and what fans want it to be, some fans can totally break a lore with their bullshit.
Don't understand the hate with cartoon voices in a game full of wolbachia and copulation.
Kojima's wet dreams with quiet are teenager level horny with a sideload of creep, not very "serious" to go along with "serious hollywood" voices.
Or the fact the voice actor for snake in japanese is the same.
But that said, no problems with 24 Snake, he hardly talks anyway, and what little is there is ok.
Everybody sounds like...me posting all in a flat voice, the most emotional is whoooooooo and sometimes Huey.
Kojima's wet dreams with quiet are teenager level horny with a sideload of creep, not very "serious" to go along with "serious hollywood" voices.
Or the fact the voice actor for snake in japanese is the same.
But that said, no problems with 24 Snake, he hardly talks anyway, and what little is there is ok.
Everybody sounds like...me posting all in a flat voice, the most emotional is whoooooooo and sometimes Huey.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Yup. When he doesn't do his own thing, we get hot mess like MGS4.
I still prefer Hayter,PW is the only game where he tried way too hard with the raspy voice imo.
Mgs1=greatp
Mgs2=great(snake's final speech was beautiful)
Mgs3=great
Mgs4=Most people think this is where his perfomance started to drop but i found the raspy voice very fitting for an old,sick and tired veteran soldier(also, his Liquiiiid! was outstanding)
I like kiefer too,his 'Nooo!!' during the last cutscene with paz gave me the feels.
Mgs1=greatp
Mgs2=great(snake's final speech was beautiful)
Mgs3=great
Mgs4=Most people think this is where his perfomance started to drop but i found the raspy voice very fitting for an old,sick and tired veteran soldier(also, his Liquiiiid! was outstanding)
I like kiefer too,his 'Nooo!!' during the last cutscene with paz gave me the feels.
But this is a hot mess like MGS4, nothing changed in fact this game is less competent than MGS4.
MGS4 is full of fan service and was terrible at doing it, it's why it's the worst for me but Kojima wasn't alone when he made his best MGS, MGS2 has Tomokazu Fukushima ( even if Acid sucks ) too and it makes a world of difference, MGSV could have beat MGS2 but he won't happened ; )
to me: MGS2> MGSV > MGS > MGS3 > MGS PW > MG2 > MG > MGS4.
Not even close, besides the mission 51 missing ( and it's just Eli closure ) the game is far from being a mess, I think the big audience missed it like they did with MGS2, I'm sure people will see MGSV differently in few years.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Well, of course I'm gonna disagree with that sentiment.
TPP is much, much more coherent, clear of purpose and somewhat a labour of love, as opposed to the clearly laborious, death threat inspired, "everything and the kitchen sink" pile of fan wankery called MGS4.
MGS3 in fourth place? Interesting.
Kojima wanted to kill Solid Snake and Otacon in MGS4.
His team told him no.
So much for the artist following his own patch. Sorry to break your fantasy.
DamonForever
Member
I never got this scene in my playthrough. Then again I didn't get the 'stink' one either. WRT Kiefer though, I just don't get the point. Seemed like a cash dump for no real tangible outcome.
Also, man, I must've missed the period when MGS2 suddenly became 'good' (storywise).
Sorry to break your fantasy but Solid Snake will definitely die, Otacon too but later, it's not because they aren't dying on screen that it won't happened, especially SS.
even if not, what's wrong with them getting killed ?
After the Masterpiece that was MGS2, I was disappointed with how bland MGS3 was, it's not a bad game, far from it, MGS3 is really a good one but not as good as other major MGS games like 2 or 1.
You were in cryo-sleep or something?
CODEC calls literally only exist because it's too expensive to animate cutscenes. MGS4 is the only game where he used the budget to make the majority of CODEC calls into cutscenes, and it's a fucking travesty for the most part.
The ONLY times CODEC calls have been relevant are when someone is pretending to be someone else - ie Liquid as Miller or Arsenal Gear AI as Campbell.
Seriously, this. Just because there's a lot of it, and it has some really great aspects, it doesn't make the story good.
Rose-tinted glasses are everywhere in MGSV's aftermath.
it's not surprising, the bigger audience just missed the dimension of it , it happened. many of them was younger when they first played it and didn't have the same degree of analysis as they have now.
at the time, the critics from the general audience of the game was terrible, far more than the hate for MGSV but eventually people loved it after some years, hope it'll be the same for MGSV.
Roni
Member
Man I had forgotten how terribad the codec was in MGS4. The first 4 times I played that game I was sure I was missing at least quite a few codec contacts. Turns out they were never there...
Inferno313
Banned
MGS4 also swapped out a lot of would-be optional codec calls for mandatory power point presentations, which is even worse. Those combined with the mission briefings decimate that game's pacing.
Yes it is surprising, because MGS2 is one of the worst-paced games of all time with many terrible/ridiculous story elements. An older audience also played the game and took great issue with the story. The fantastic themes and symbolism, and to an extent the characterisation and plot, do not make up for how terrible MGS2's narrative is (as in, how it got the story across).
I will never watch that final cutscene again.
MGS4 takes the cake as the worst-paced game of all time, IMO, but MGS2 is only a small order behind it.
And I'm glad MGSV took the direction it did. I'd rather that than MGS2/4 bloat.
It was just a shitshow. MGS4 was like if you went to a restaurant and got a set menu and they gave you 15 overcooked soup courses with four delicious small main courses spread throughout. And you had to eat all of it because you're the dinner guest of Hideo Kojima who usually throws a really great dinner party and you never know when these golden moments would pop up or if halfway through they'd decide to stop serving soup.
MGSV on the other hand is like getting the set menu and they bring out a never ending feast of delicious rich main courses - although periodically you have to take a watery soup break and the soup is nice but ultimately not as satisfying as it should be.
This whole MGSV thing is deja vu with MGS2. Back when MGS2 was released almost everyone considered the game a travesty. 8 years later and it is now considered the most awesome thing when we talk about MGS.
Same thing will eventually happen with MGSV. Once the dust of the aftermath settles in and people start to dissect it, they will call it genius.
Its just how it works with fans.
Its like you said. Most people missed the dimension of MGS2. And in some ways the same thing has happened now as well. Even now, lots of people who initially were extremely angry with MGSV, have already softened once they started looking around at the bigger picture and how it connects events throughout the saga. It will only get better.
Damn straight on all counts. Also check out my soup analogy above. Yeah, baby.
Edit: Except, um... It's been 14 years since MGS2 came out. Not 8 years. Almost double. What the fuck. I feel old.
marvelharvey
Member
Finally finished the game at 63% @ 101 hours.
-Didn't see the infamous Quiet shower or rain scenes
-Missed other scenes that I see mentioned here numerous time
-Only listened to the first second of each of the yellow tapes
-Didn't listen to any other tapes
-Didn't really bother paying attention to any of the story
-Got the 'true' ending
-Still have yet to be invaded by anyone
-Had an absolutely wonderful time with the game. Money well spent.
And seeing as we're doing it:
MGS3>MGSV>MGS>MGS2>MGS4
How MGS4 won GAF's 'game of the year' I'll never know.
Short post from someone with a short attention span.
-Didn't see the infamous Quiet shower or rain scenes
-Missed other scenes that I see mentioned here numerous time
-Only listened to the first second of each of the yellow tapes
-Didn't listen to any other tapes
-Didn't really bother paying attention to any of the story
-Got the 'true' ending
-Still have yet to be invaded by anyone
-Had an absolutely wonderful time with the game. Money well spent.
And seeing as we're doing it:
MGS3>MGSV>MGS>MGS2>MGS4
How MGS4 won GAF's 'game of the year' I'll never know.
Short post from someone with a short attention span.
Apparently, people discovered the way to trigger the hidden ending with nukes: http://gamingbolt.com/in-order-to-unlock-metal-gear-solid-5s-4th-ending-you-need-to-trigger-this-scene-first
There has to be a lot of nukes to be produced first, then it will trigger the recently found cutscene with Miller where he talks about the threat of nuclear arms, only then the players will have to disarm as many nukes as they can.
There has to be a lot of nukes to be produced first, then it will trigger the recently found cutscene with Miller where he talks about the threat of nuclear arms, only then the players will have to disarm as many nukes as they can.
Not a single nuke equipped person in my tier, but I think its cool they managed to squeeze an ending for FOB.
I said it took around 8 years for people to start changing their minds about MGS2. And the reason was mainly because of how things got tied up with MGS3 and MGS4. Thats when most people came back to MGS2 and realized what all the "incoherent mumbo-jumbo" was all about.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I didn't. I wasn't part of the Internet community back then so I wasn't tainted by other people's opinions.
At the time my only problem with it was that it had one twist too many. It was only in hindsight, maybe playing it again a year or two later, that I "got" the last twist. That realisation zoomed it up to first place till MGS3 decided to snuggle in next to it.
Inferno313
Banned
Yep. I'm a more recent MGS fan. I played through the whole series when the HD collection came out, and MGS2 has easily aged the worst. MGS1's simple gameplay and story held up quite well suprisingly, but MGS2 was a total slog. It took me months to work my way through it, and whatever interesting points it made were ruined by how over-written and nonsensical the ending of that game is. The ideas are great, the execution and storytelling is awful. Once I started MGS3 I was so compelled by the vastly superior narrative and gameplay that I beat that in 3 sittings over the course of 2 days compared to MGS2 taking me over 2 months.
My ranking (which I've been told by MGS fans is a TERRIBLE ranking, lol) is: 3 = V > 1 > Rising > Peace Walker > 4 > 2.
GreyOcelot
Member
I'm with you here. Going back and playing mgs2 recently highlighted for me why it's the worst in the series.
Obviously I do not imply that everyone acted the same. And yes I myself was not part of the group that got crazy once they saw Raiden and I wasnt one that thought the game was the incoherent mess that was the popular claim back then.
But most people did.
Berserker976
Member
I'm calling bullshit on this, I'm afraid. MGS2 had something MGSV does not. Density. For better or worse, it had a ton of "stuff" in it. People missed out because they were overwhelmed with information and ideas that took years for fans to process and sift through.
MGSV does not. It's a proverbial Haiku to MGS2's 1000-page Novel. MGSV lacks lacks the depth and complexity of even MGS1's plot, which is why a ton of people that absolutely love the series are furious and disappointed.
I see MGSV's legacy as being more similar to GTAIV, praised to hell when it was released, but looking back, people will be baffled as to how it initially earned such high praise.
Bonus MGSV plot haiku:
Wake up, rescue Kaz
Metal Gear and Skull Face burn
I am not Big Boss
Metal Gear and Skull Face burn
I am not Big Boss
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Hahaha! That explains a lot. GTA IV is my favourite. XD
It ain't Oscar-Worthy though
Obviously I do not imply that everyone acted the same. And yes I myself was not part of the group that got crazy once they saw Raiden and I wasnt one that thought the game was the incoherent mess that was the popular claim back then.
But most people did.
People never know what they have.
Are you suggesting by comparing MGSV to a haiku that it is perfectly formed, timelessly structured, beloved by great poets and thinkers, able to contain the mysteries of life, and uniquely identifiable by sight and sound? I wouldn't go that far, mate...
That's awesome btw! XD We need to do it to them all...
EDIT: I gave it a shot. Nowhere near as funny as yours:
In Shadow Moses
I must stop your nuclear war
my angry brother
Oh no snake is dead
Raiden must save the day now
He is the player
Young Snake fights Cobras
In his journey to face her
His mother, The Boss
Old Snake is so tired
He goes through this shit again
He had a hard life
I don't see MGS V praised to hell, unless you mean the gaming press only. Lots of fans were already pissed in the first few weeks since the release.
Volgin is one of the greatest things about the Big Boss arc.
And yet things are far more gentle now than they were 2 weeks ago where if you even tried to write something positive about MGSV, you were kinda feeling as the discussion freak.
People keep dissecting the game and the ripple effects it has across the saga and how it affects things you knew about characters and events. And you may call bullshit, but I do strongly believe that MGSV will not remain as "god-awful" as the hyperbole suggests and will be better received in a few months.
Just wait for the LTTP threads or the threads that have people replay the game. Its bound to happen.
True that. Or to put it better, they are just too itchy to pull the trigger and to draw conclusions.
akidnamededdy
Banned
I haven't seen anything posted regarding this recently that wasn't posted in the days immediately following the game's release. There's just not much here to dissect.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Absolutely is. I could write a dissertation each on Mission 43 and Mission 46.
the only people that ''missed it'' are the ones that wrote those joke reviews 10/10 goty best mgs evah pls kojima marryme. but maybe we played different games, my MGSV copy was very close to being a mess and that will hardly change in a few years.
how can you be so wrong with just one list, man.
I'm actually quite surprised by some of the opinions posted here regarding MGSV. I absolutely do not mean this in a bad way. I have played the Metal Gear series going back to that Playstation Pizza Hut demo for MGS1 back in 1997/1998. For me, I have always found myself in love with MGS3 over all the other game that were its predecessors and successors.
I highly doubt that MGSV will have the love and adulation that we all saw for MGS2 years later as people re-evaluate it. I still find that game one of the weaker titles of the series, but a long explanation for it is neither here nor now. To MGS2's credit, I will saw at least that the game had a complete narrative even if it was somewhat poorly paced and incoherent in its presentation.
MGSV is just disjointed. You can obviously see that Hideo Kojima couldn't achieve everything he wanted to, and the story here suffers for it. So many things here are left open. Especially when you consider the ending regarding Big Boss and Venom Snake, the game itself lack characterization for most of its characters, long breaks in story presentation (due to the open world nature), odd dialogue in its story, and a twist made on a point that a lot of people didn't care about in a particular previous game. The game simply won't have the love of MGS2 because many consider MGSV unfinished, devoid of the character, tension, and essentially a villain that was engaging an actually fleshed out like Solidus was.
The gameplay here is phenomenal, even if the mission structure is repetitive. I also think the controversy regarding the implementation of FOB and micro-transactions will not go anyway to help this game's overall legacy. No one can deny that online features are a mainstay of a game, and will be part of a game's legacy (for better or for worse).
I highly doubt that MGSV will have the love and adulation that we all saw for MGS2 years later as people re-evaluate it. I still find that game one of the weaker titles of the series, but a long explanation for it is neither here nor now. To MGS2's credit, I will saw at least that the game had a complete narrative even if it was somewhat poorly paced and incoherent in its presentation.
MGSV is just disjointed. You can obviously see that Hideo Kojima couldn't achieve everything he wanted to, and the story here suffers for it. So many things here are left open. Especially when you consider the ending regarding Big Boss and Venom Snake, the game itself lack characterization for most of its characters, long breaks in story presentation (due to the open world nature), odd dialogue in its story, and a twist made on a point that a lot of people didn't care about in a particular previous game. The game simply won't have the love of MGS2 because many consider MGSV unfinished, devoid of the character, tension, and essentially a villain that was engaging an actually fleshed out like Solidus was.
The gameplay here is phenomenal, even if the mission structure is repetitive. I also think the controversy regarding the implementation of FOB and micro-transactions will not go anyway to help this game's overall legacy. No one can deny that online features are a mainstay of a game, and will be part of a game's legacy (for better or for worse).
Roni
Member
I also doubt the people who didn't like MGSV will come around in the following years, MGS2 was only ever understood because of MGS4. This time around, there will be no sequel to expose the inner workings of what was shown in V in a nice 4 hour long cutscene that features a powerpoint presentation and visual representations of all the concepts.
It's all in tapes and not in a streamlined way, most haters won't muster the patience to listen to them and make sense of it.
It's all in tapes and not in a streamlined way, most haters won't muster the patience to listen to them and make sense of it.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Gotta disagree there. If anything, MGS4 retroactively makes MGS2 worse by contextualising and tying up loose ends that didn't need it (tries to, at least).
I think MGS2 is at it's best when considered with MGS1 only.
I said it took around 8 years for people to start changing their minds about MGS2. And the reason was mainly because of how things got tied up with MGS3 and MGS4. Thats when most people came back to MGS2 and realized what all the "incoherent mumbo-jumbo" was all about.
Sorry – you're right about what you said.
Also yeah I agree what MGS2 is about is excellent. It's just the execution which fluffs it. What this guy says:
Funnily enough, my ranking isn't dissimilar, and I played all the MGS games on release.
MGS3 = MGS V > 2 > 1 > PW >>> 4
I still find MGS2's gameplay phenomenally deep and many of its sections ingenious, even if the pacing is nightmarish. This is probably easier having played it at release (and not having any other MGS games to play/finish).
This. There's someone back in OT1 who said he considers MGS2 the true ending of the MGS series. And I think that reading checks out really well.