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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
Shin Kojima
Banned
Or did she?
Maybe if it was the real BB she would have killed him..
Has PC modding gotten anywhere with TPP like it did with GZ? We had a fully working FPS mod.
One thing PC also has over consoles is motherfucking trainers. Infinite GMP and metals. Don't be mistaken, there is a still a ton of grinding to rank up your teams and time to burn for development but it gives the freedom of experimentation. I would never have touched a single shotgun, grenade launcher, landmine or prosthetic arm if I had had to bean-count.
One thing PC also has over consoles is motherfucking trainers. Infinite GMP and metals. Don't be mistaken, there is a still a ton of grinding to rank up your teams and time to burn for development but it gives the freedom of experimentation. I would never have touched a single shotgun, grenade launcher, landmine or prosthetic arm if I had had to bean-count.
When my girlfriend pushed me out a window, that's how I knew we were soulmates!
It was accident she didn't mean to push me out, shit hurt though
Moon_frogger
Member
well.....she was trying to kill venom at the beginning not the real BB. she only tried to defend herself against BB when he literallly jumped on her back so....no I doubt that.
She, like many, thought Venom was big boss. That's why BB was wearing the mask in the first place. To let his enemies find Venom and protect the ruse.
Agreed on most points, I dont see the story as failing on everything up to chapter 31, but the overall acting is just too plain for my tastes or for what I'm used to for a MGS game.
I have unlocked most guns and only miss the higher tiers, but never had to reeeeally go out of my way farming resources, I don't understand what game are you playing. I can understand having next to nothing if you rush the story missions.
...does that mean you have to breathe through your skin now?
Didn't the creator of the FPS mod for GZ say they had no interest in bringing it over to TPP? A shame, but hopefully someone will do something similar. I think the only gameplay-affecting mods out right now are the trainers, altered timescale edits, the rebalance and that mod which gives you a 'subsistence' and 'extreme' toggle for regular missions. Everything else is relegated to smaller model swaps and edits, though a few of those are worth looking into, like the one which restores the names of original weapons the ingame ones were inspired by, various shader and general graphics presets, and the one which allows any Combat Unit soldier to show up in cutscenes.
Hopefully people keep working at MGSV long enough to the point where custom models and scripting become possible, mods created with better tools and documentation could extend the game's life indefinitely.
Haunted
Member
I wanted to come in here and praise one of the little details I noticed upon watching GB's Drew play through the prologue (the first time the Man on Fire appears he has Volgin's tattered coat before it's burned off) but the more I think about the whole Man on Fire business the less I want to praise its appearance at all.
Fucking convenient coincidences to cram some more fanservice in there, shit level writing.
I really need to stop critically analysing any aspect besides the core gameplay, it just gets worse and more disappointing the more I apply myself.
Fucking convenient coincidences to cram some more fanservice in there, shit level writing.
goddamn, I didn't even think about it this way
I really need to stop critically analysing any aspect besides the core gameplay, it just gets worse and more disappointing the more I apply myself.
Him, Mantis, Liquid, even Ocelot; their presence in this game basically amounted to nothing. I'd have been fine with bringing back Volgin if it were an excuse to have a fantastic boss fight that wouldn't work with anyone else, but we barely fought him at all; and the fire abilities could have been grafted onto anyone.
Spec Ops: The Line does everything MGSV wants to do but fails to do.
https://youtu.be/-b7TaLjdXMc
Nothing in MGSV comes close to this
https://youtu.be/-b7TaLjdXMc
Nothing in MGSV comes close to this
I've got the Infinite Heaven on MGSV PC. It's fucking great. Lets you deploy with the Subsistence gear option, or a reduced version where you can still take a buddy or vehicle.
Super fucking great. Makes it much harder and more detailed, though you still just get used to it.
There's an argument that she didn't and that's why she started coming round to Venom instead of being a pure revenge machine like everyone else.
I thought the game was doing something kind of clever there.
Didn't she say "the patient in the other bed saw me" before trying to kill Venom?
Well spotted. That is cool.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
Isn't it Ocelot who says, "She fell in love with the legend."..? I took that to mean it was more about the aura than the man himself. Or maybe she just loved Venom regardless.
Finished it last night. Still digesting it all. My only take away is that Kojima seems to really spite his fanbase by not letting them ever play the character they want. Want Snake? Take Raiden. Still want Snake? Take Big Boss. Still want Snake? Take Big Boss again. You finally want Big Boss? Fuck you, play as this medic.
I have to say that, while I enjoyed the story overall, the post-game is much more enjoyable. During the story play-through I was frustrated by repetitive missions and expecting something amazing around the corner, and I felt like I just slogged through to the end. But now when I go back to play, to just fuck around or do some side ops or recruit soldiers or whatever, it's just way more fun now that I have no story expectations. Now when I play I can listen to music or a podcast because I'm no longer scraping for every bit of dialogue. It's just such a god damn fun game to play.
That said, I don't see myself getting anywhere near a 100% save. Just looking at some of the tasks in the missions gives me a headache, especially mission 45 or some of the extreme ones. I mostly just want to get the Wormhole, infinity bandanna, and a few other things to fuck around with. I need to recruit lots to do it, too.
That said, I don't see myself getting anywhere near a 100% save. Just looking at some of the tasks in the missions gives me a headache, especially mission 45 or some of the extreme ones. I mostly just want to get the Wormhole, infinity bandanna, and a few other things to fuck around with. I need to recruit lots to do it, too.
I'm not a Twilight fan, so I don't understand the comparison, but how is a girl who never talks and tends to murder people "ideal," by anyone's standard of companionship?
What I like about the Quiet-Venom connection is more what it says about Venom. She is a monster and yet he intuits some goodness inside her. It's why he spares her twice (in the ruins and on Mother Base) and not only forgives her, but trusts her, as well. Which is suicide, in the eyes of Kaz -- and he's well within reason to feel that way, given the facts -- but that's the whole point: Venom is able to see something in her that the others can't.
That's something Venom shares with BB: An intuitive ability to empathize with monsters and see a common humanity. The whole concept that "our enemies are relative."
If you tried to kill someone not once, but twice, and if each time you were spared, forgiven, and trusted because your enemy saw something better in you, it'd make an impression on you and probably soften your heart so that you reevaluate who you're fighting for, and why. And from there it's easy to see how a bond could form.
So I quite like that aspect of Venom and Quiet. Now, should anyone want Quiet as a girlfriend? Only if you want to risk a dick-stabbing if you're caught looking at another girl!
EDIT: Thought I would edit this and clarify that mute people can be perfectly desirable, in case anyone here is mute and reading this. Couples find other ways to communicate. What I'm saying about Quiet is she tends to keep a lot to herself, regardless of her verbal silence!
After the disappointment of realizing that I wasn't playing Big Boss has passed, I honestly don't care anymore. I have grown to love Big Medic, in my opinion he's Big Boss before Big Boss started going crazy. Only, he doesn't talk as much, but when he does it's pretty impactful.
The fact that the real Big Boss will eventually put Big Medic in the same position as The Boss makes me empathize and appreciate his character even more.
The fact that the real Big Boss will eventually put Big Medic in the same position as The Boss makes me empathize and appreciate his character even more.
mgs2master2
Banned
Twilight and notable works of fanfiction it spawned, such as 50 Shades of Grey; were never about portraying ideal healthy relationships. The romance novel fantasy of the brooding, controlling hot stalker which Christian/Edward embody are archetypes which pander as blatantly as Quiet - except in her case, it's inverted into a hyper-submissive role, killing brutally to defend you or in some cases herself; but fiercely, comically devoted above all, through distrust, mistreatment and torture. Despite the balance of power in the relationships differing on the surface, the core fantasy remains - the pale, quiet, beautiful lover with an apparently tortured past yet who has little characterisation or motivation other than their all-consuming obsession with the audience stand-in; (which quickly comes out of their initial resolve to kill or harm them) and which they're willing to do anything to defend.
I think Quiet had some redeeming points, and her storyline definitely had potential to be interesting - certainly moreso than Edward or Christian's - but it's undeniable that she hits a lot of the most common flat love interest traits; which the seedier aspects of her portrayal and unexplored nature of her motivations only made worse.
Having to wear fishnets and thongs everywhere put a major damper on the relationship.
I mean, I can kind of see the comparison, but the "abuse" is mainly limited to the interrogation scene (unless we're counting her captive status), and even then it seems like Quiet understands he's appeasing his XOs for the sake of stability, and doesn't begrudge him for it. In other words, I don't think it's thoughtless acceptance on her part; I think he has earned her trust by that point and so she'll go along with him, even if a small part of her still wants revenge.
She also doesn't come off as a stalker. She comes along on missions when she's expected to come along on missions, and otherwise sticks to her cell. She didn't exactly have any opportunity to exhibit jealousy, etc, when she was the only female character on Mother Base (Fulton recruits aside).
GodzillaDB
Member
Wholeheartedly agree. After Kojima made passing remarks about his interest in Breaking Bad, I was initially optimistic there would be a sequence that solidifies his descent toward the anarchistic, warmongering villain prevalent the late 1990s. The aforementioned GIF built hope that this aspect would finally come to fruition, but nothing tragically occurs with the character in Phantom Pain regardless of whether he was the real deal or a military decoy. I know some users suggested the doppelganger stratagem highlights hypocrisy in light of his defeat over The Boss, but it's such an arguably subtle or even insignificant aspect when the real legendary soldier takes full credit for the legacy of Outer Heaven and Venom Snake never receives an utterance elsewhere in the franchise.
very well said. Its interesting you bring Breaking Bad. Had not thought about it, but i agree. I think i was expecting something more along those lines than the weak story that was presented.
I can see how you were expecting something different than we got, and I sympathize with you, but the bolded bit in your quote doesn't change anything. Of course BB was going to take credit for Venom's work: It's still the Big Boss "brand" on the line, drawing soldiers into the fold. And of course he's not going to mention he had a body double helping him: That would dilute the "brand" if people knew it was the work of two people instead of one. The fact remains he still threw Venom, the Diamond Dogs, and even the hospital at Cyprus under the bus; he went along with a plan that put them in grave danger, all to advance his own agenda; and since you experience the entire story from Venom's POV, this is impactful because it was you who was betrayed. Venom himself seems more forgiving, at first, and goes along with BB's plan until he realizes it's too late, but that's the tragic element. The player, knowing how BB plays out in the saga as a whole, can see what Venom's can't. It's like watching a train crash.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
They're not the exact same characters, but the they're written for the same purpose. To provide an ideal fantasy love interest to the player/reader. No one will have a healthy relationship with a vampire. Maybe with a bondage obsessed CEO since he's rich, but that's not the point. The point is to appeal to fantasy, not a realistic or healthy relationship. It's establishing a romantic relationship without doing any of the work of actually getting to know the person. Anything involving Quiet seemed like fan fiction level writing for military otaku types. She's a sexy sniper lady who once tried to kill you and falls in love with you for besting her in battle and now watches over you. Reverse the genders and more people would be criticizing MGSV for its Mary Sue romance. I view it as the same way people view Twilight, but aimed at guys. There is no smarter or deeper level of writing that puts it above your typical teen girl romance novels. It's the exact same, but it's more heavily defended because this mary-sue ideal boyfriend has tits. She is designed to be your sniper waifu. The Sniper Wolf/Otacon relationship is a more interesting sniper lady/otaku relationship than the Quiet/Venom one.
I'd rewatch her cutscenes to try to discern some deeper aspect to her character, but almost everything involving her makes me cringe. Sure she still had feelings of revenge against Venom and Big Boss...but that's something we are told after she leaves. I never got that impression at all before then. She's just a very shallow character with a shallow "arc" that isn't executed convincingly at all.
Quiet knew he was a doppelganger since the hospital. "Wait the patient in the next bed saw my face." and proceeds to try and kill Venom. She has no reason to write to anyone else "hey that guy with black shrapnel in his head is not Big Boss."
Quiet believes that Venom is Big Boss, but I don't think that's why she falls for him. It's not simply the "legend," contrary to what Ocelot may say. It's his character, and if she later discovered he was Venom, she would like him all the same. He spares her, forgives her, and trusts her when no one else would (and no one else would for good reason). That kind of mercy makes an impression on her.
(Although one could say that "relativism" is also the quality that made many people loyal to the real Big Boss, as well.)
And like I said, that's what I like about the connection between Venom and Quiet. I don't really see it as a "romantic" subplot, even if it has a suggestion of romance. If I were looking at it purely as romance, I'd be dissatisfied for reasons SuperStiltzkin described. Rather, I see it more like how monsters are handled in a Guillermo del Toro film. Venom sees a redeeming quality in a monster that has none, and it's only when she's afforded some measure of mercy or compassion that she develops something resembling noble qualities.
(Although one could say that "relativism" is also the quality that made many people loyal to the real Big Boss, as well.)
And like I said, that's what I like about the connection between Venom and Quiet. I don't really see it as a "romantic" subplot, even if it has a suggestion of romance. If I were looking at it purely as romance, I'd be dissatisfied for reasons SuperStiltzkin described. Rather, I see it more like how monsters are handled in a Guillermo del Toro film. Venom sees a redeeming quality in a monster that has none, and it's only when she's afforded some measure of mercy or compassion that she develops something resembling noble qualities.
Roni
Gold Member
Interesting you mention Breaking Bad. Because, for me, Big Boss not opposing or even lashing out at Ocelot for even considering the absurd plan of artificially placing a man into a coma and systematically destroying his identity while supplanting it with Big Boss' is very similar to the ending of Season 2's "Phoenix" episode.
The beginning of the transformation for both Walt and Big Boss.
Gnome Scat
Member
I feel like it would've been better if in the end Venom felt betrayed by Big Boss for taking away his identity and hypnotizing him with false memories so that he could have teamed up with Miller (who felt betrayed because it wasn't Big Boss who saved/came back for him, but instead a double) to seek revenge against Big Boss for how he has wronged them. Since Eli left and Kaz had control over David, he could have trained him to eventually take down Big Boss (since they could have been too old when they finally locate him) while Venom pretends to remain loyal to Big Boss in an effort to find his location. So during Operation Intrude N313, Solid Snake fighting Venom could have been his final training for taking down the real Big Boss, and now the same man who "died" protecting Big Boss gave his life to seek vengeance against him.
Read something interesting on a different forum.
Ocelot and Zero both say the following. Ocelot says it in regards to the worst acts that can be committed by a person, body or nation; Zero says it in relation to his idea of the ultimate human society (the basis for the abstracted Patriot AI).
"His country, his family, his face, his identity, everything was stolen from him."
- Ocelot on Skull Face
(Skull Face says something similar in GZ, which I can't find.)
"Race, tribal affiliations, national borders, even our faces will be irrelevant."
- Zero
So by buying into the plan to take someone's face/nationality/identity, ie Venom Snake, Big Boss is becoming just as heinous as the Patriot AI and Skull Face/XOF.
Ocelot and Zero both say the following. Ocelot says it in regards to the worst acts that can be committed by a person, body or nation; Zero says it in relation to his idea of the ultimate human society (the basis for the abstracted Patriot AI).
"His country, his family, his face, his identity, everything was stolen from him."
- Ocelot on Skull Face
(Skull Face says something similar in GZ, which I can't find.)
"Race, tribal affiliations, national borders, even our faces will be irrelevant."
- Zero
So by buying into the plan to take someone's face/nationality/identity, ie Venom Snake, Big Boss is becoming just as heinous as the Patriot AI and Skull Face/XOF.
Wait what? I felt NOTHING playing that scene. The reactions felt so wrong. We got fake angry guy, fake defensive guy and payback dude. ugh... Nha MGSV is way better.
SketchTheArtist
Member
Yeah, those themes weren't fully explored which is a shame. Even if Kojima's stories are pretty ham-fisted, the way they interconnect with the gameplay and the player's experiences are always really cool.
Shame indeed.
Problem here is this doesn't play in the Metal Gear narrative. There are too many characters aware of Venom and his deeds who nevertheless don't mention either in any way shape or form. So even if we make the argument that BB snatched credit on a global scale, also undone by the established canon, we still have nothing important whatsoever to attribute to Venom
I dunno man. I thought they were explored sufficiently in MGSV. The game touched on them, let them sink in, and then moved on. It didn't need to bring them up again, and the climax/twist touched on them to link them to the overall plot.
If you mean 'explored' in the sense of the previous MGS games, where characters waffle on for hours about every minor theme, sucking them dry of any interpretation or subtle meaning, then fuck that. We got enough of that in MGSV with Code Talker.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Where can I get dlc for ps4?
I'm not sure why it matters if others give Venom credit later in the canon. We know what he did. He enabled BB's plans and prevented the fall of Western civilization, and by contrast he allows us to see a new side to BB. But I see MGSV as a side story, in keeping with the "V" instead of "5," so I'm OK with this. And really, it's just Ocelot, Zero, Miller, and the cultists at Diamond Dogs that know the truth about Venom. It's possible that might be where the knowledge ends.
Because future mention is a way to measure importance in the storyline. Basically, if everything Venom did amounts to nothing anyone cared about, why is it important?
Am I interpreting this correctly? Does Miller know about Venom before he wakes up? And he is complicit with the "plan" throughout the events of the game? If so that really makes his particular brand of miller's maxi-bitterness way easier to swallow, and actually gives a lot of his otherwise throw away dialogue some real potency.
I want to be right on this Gaf.
I want to be right on this Gaf.
And thus became a demon.
Doesn't realise how much of a prick he is until MGS4.
You are, and I think a lot of the writing in the game is better than people give it credit because of this reason. Venom is aloof because he's basically brain damaged into thinking he's Big Boss, Kaz is going along with Venom knowing it's not really Big Boss, Ocelot has self-hypnotised himself into being an unquestioning believer that Venom is really Big Boss and he has a shard in his head. Edit: when I say writing I mean dialogue, not the overall scheme of things, which is flawed.
Quoting Kaz, "Big Boss can go to Hell. I'll make the phantom and his sons stronger, to send him there". That was exactly my feelings towards the reveal at the end.
Roni
Gold Member
Because he impacted lives? Made choices? Performed deeds? The world would've ended if not for Venom. He picked up the mantle and made sure the world kept on spinning so he could shape it in his own image.
Future mentions are not a way to measure importance in history, or a narrative.
That's the whole point, though. Venom is a phantom. He is a ghost. His story is lost to the annals of history. He is forever unknown. But the consequences are not. He drew out and defeated Skull Face and saved Western civilization. He played into a plan that bought BB time to set up the strongholds in MG1 and MG2. He enabled something bad, but he also did something good. History will remember neither, but we know the truth.
From what I have understood she want to kill Venom because not want to leave witness around. She seems to know who is the real big boss.
Moon_frogger
Member
ahahahahahaha. I mean, I liked spec ops. It was a curiosity. but this statement is just so god damn absurd.
Can you elaborate on why you think Miller knows about Venom beforehand?
We have two conversations where Miller touches on the BB situation: One where Zero tells Miller that BB is safe, and Miller seems to think BB is, in fact, BB; and the post-credits conversation between Ocelot and Miller, where Miller is outraged at BB's betrayal.
I interpreted the latter to take place shortly after M45 of the main campaign. Miller learns the truth from Ocelot around the same time Venom receives the tape. Someone saw fit to bring everyone up to date. I don't see reason to think otherwise, but I'm open to a second interpretation. I think there are interesting implications for either case.
Moon_frogger
Member
Please explain why she didn`t go directly for big boss then. venom was helpless in a hospital bed, unlike the doctor and nurse who were armed and dangerous. I`m not saying you`re wrong. What other indications are there in the game that she knew the truth. I must have missed it all.