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[BadWolf]

Started a second playthrough from a new game and paid attention to Ishmael behind the curtain, you can see him (or rather his silhouette) clear as day from Venom's side of the curtain.

They even emphasize it by putting it as the image on the title screen. So it's hardly surprising that he had a full animation to him.

 

[KOMANI]

Started a second playthrough from a new game and paid attention to Ishmael behind the curtain, you can see him (or rather his silhouette) clear as day from Venom's side of the curtain.

They even emphasize it by putting it as the image on the title screen. So it's hardly surprising that he had a full animation to him.

Are you doing anything special with this play through?

 

[uberluigi]

Just finished the game yesterday night, 115 hours loved every minute of it. Story was the weakest in the series but that didn't bother me much. Did the game ever explain why Chico had earphones in his chest? Did he have the vocal cord parasites too? Also how do I unlock the last wondering mother base soldier side op?

 

[sappyday]

What's wrong with quiet other than how she's dressed? She and kaz are the best characters in the game imo

The way she's dressed and portrayed during cutscenes is a huge part. It's fucking annoying. I don't mind sexy females in game. SFV girls are amazing looking. But when in a game that is trying to be a lot more serious than the other games (to the point where Kojima has to bring in a Hollywood actor in order to give a more "serious" tone to Snake) has ONLY one female character and she's dressed like a cheap anime loli that poses for you for no reason and the camera focuses on the worst part of the design for no reasons; then the game better better have a damn good character arc and background for it all. But it fails on that regard as well.

She's a soldier for Skullface that almost dies but doesn't thanks to parasites. Now she's almost nude and has amazing sniper skills (something that should of been established in the prologue to make it all flow more) and amazing superhero like abilities. She goes around killing soldiers in order to get the attention of Snake in order for her to enact revenge/complete Skullface's plan of releasing the third vocal cord parasite that she's infected with. She tries to kill herself but lets herself get caught then escapes then comes back again.

She joins the team as a spy but doesn't do any spy work. She is going to exact revenge on a man who almost killed her but doesn't because she ends up respecting/loving him. Why does she respect him? She must of known he's considered a legendary soldier so nothing he does should come as a surprise. Cause he lets her live and be a buddy? Well yea if you surrender and act all part of the team then it shouldn't be hard to believe. Or does she just get hit with the love bug out of nowhere and can't bare to kill him or his soldiers, you know, those same soldiers that call her names and stare at her while she's showering and want her dead. She has no reason to fall in love with Snake. "She respects him" is the flimsiest shit they could ever come up with. "I think he's fucking sexy" would of been a better answer. But we don't know since Quiet is a mute.

She loves Boss so much she plays puddle fights with him. Aww so cute. Such a other side to her. But she now has to leave the team and gets herself captured for no reason. Is she letting the soviets do her in? No can't be because she fight back. Then why get captured in the first place. Then why leave and vow silence when you were already vowing silence in the first place.


All of it terrible. It's so thin that it's hard to care for her. She has no effect on the series or even the game at all. The game has the option to remove her and everything plays out the same!


All that mixed with the design and camera angles makes her for the worst character in the series for me. Just cause she has an arc doesn't mean it's good enough but I understand how some might feel this is the case since pretty much no one gets a full fledged arc in this game. It's very unfortunate that the one arc we get is terrible and wasted.

 

[Xiraiya]

Are you doing anything special with this play through?

Someone should do a playthrough of doing everything they can as well as they can, then do a playthrough where you make all the worst decisons, let Motherbase go to shit, let the infection overrun it, just go all out to ensure Venom is the worst human being ever, I want to know if that's how you get the bloodsoaked nuclear scene.

 

[BadWolf]

Are you doing anything special with this play through?

Playing mostly to enjoy the story again and try to pick up some more details.

Gameplay wise I will try to handle missions differently and also try to keep Quiet from leaving this time.

 

[The Silver]

Apparently. Quinton Flynn stated in an interview that he hadn't been asked back to reprise the role even around the time when the E3 2010 trailer (Metal Gear Solid: Rising) was publicly unveiled. It wasn't until Kojima Productions' canned their effort and tossed the project over to Platinum Games that he was brought on board.

That doesn't say anything about Kojima trying to replace him.

That game was stuck in dev hell and Kojima didn't come on board until late in the game when he decided to can it.

 

[Reebot]

A third spoiler thread has to be a GAF record. Right?

This game will go down as the greatest thing ever in few years. Everyone is pissed now but over time they'll remember all the great stuff about it. This is how game of the generations leave their mark. Kojima is a legend.

Disappointment was his plan all along.

A visionary to surpass Lucas Gear.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Fuccckkkkkk if Hayter's voice was in the end of 46. Internet would have exploded. Haha, oh well.

I was totally prepping myself for this during the second tutorial. Couldn't remember what Ishmael sounded like at all, let alone the Boss himself. (The real one.) How it went was a real bummer compared to my expectations.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Just finished the game yesterday night, 115 hours loved every minute of it. Story was the weakest in the series but that didn't bother me much. Did the game ever explain why Chico had earphones in his chest? Did he have the vocal cord parasites too?

Nope. Never explained. Skullface hadn't discovered the vocal cord parasites until well after the events of Ground Zeroes. And it's the headphone plug that's in his chest, not the earbud like the other people. Some people in the other threads speculated that the hole was a wound from his torture and that Skullface made him plug it with his headphones or something. My theory is that Kojima is kind of a hack.

 

[Berserker976]

She joins the team as a spy but doesn't do any spy work. She is going to exact revenge on a man who almost killed her but doesn't because she ends up respecting/loving him. Why does she respect him? She must of known he's considered a legendary soldier so nothing he does should come as a surprise. Cause he lets her live and be a buddy? Well yea if you surrender and act all part of the team then it shouldn't be hard to believe. Or does she just get hit with the love bug out of nowhere and can't bare to kill him or his soldiers, you know, those same soldiers that call her names and stare at her while she's showering and want her dead. She has no reason to fall in love with Snake. "She respects him" is the flimsiest shit they could ever come up with. "I think he's fucking sexy" would of been a better answer. But we don't know since Quiet is a mute.

Great post, sums up my problems with the character. Also, to the bolded, Venom Snake wasn't even the one that almost killed her, it was Ishmael doing literally everything. He fought off her initial attack, dowsed her with alcohol and lit her on fire.

 

[BadWolf]

That doesn't say anything about Kojima trying to replace him.

That game was stuck in dev hell and Kojima didn't come on board until late in the game when he decided to can it.

Yeah and they had to rewrite the whole story too when they switched to PG so bringing him on in the beginning would have been a waste.

 

[Reebot]

Nope. Never explained. Skullface hadn't discovered the vocal cord parasites until well after the events of Ground Zeroes. And it's the headphone plug that's in his chest, not the earbud like the other people. Some people in the other threads speculated that the hole was a wound from his torture and that Skullface made him plug it with his headphones or something. My theory is that Kojima is kind of a hack.

It represents the how the events of Ground Zeroes have left a hole in his heart.

I wrote that as a joke but now I think people might take it seriously.

 

[akidnamededdy]

It represents the how the events of Ground Zeroes have left a hole in his heart.

I wrote that as a joke but now I think people might take it seriously.

God dammit what have you done

 

[MMarston]

Quiet is a terrible character. I'm convinced the only reason people like her is that one scene where she does flips 'n' shit.

With the way her arc went, she's got a tiny sliver of good character inside a huge vat of crap.

 

[sappyday]

Great post, sums up my problems with the character. Also, to the bolded, Venom Snake wasn't even the one that almost killed her, it was Ishmael doing literally everything. He fought off her initial attack, dowsed her with alcohol and lit her on fire.

True but her missions is to kill Big Boss. She gets burned in the process. She doesn't know for sure the identity of Ishmael but it's obviously an accomplice of Venom so the blame can fall on Venom. She can't exact revenge on a no face person. But she can exact revenge on the person she was planning to kill who has a face and name she can recognize.

 

[Golnei]

I mean yeah they're just Foxhound coats, but I thought it was an interesting little detail none the less.

Everyone other than Raven is shown with them in 1 (and Gene wears one in Portable Ops), but it is interesting that only characters who appeared in V are depicted with them ingame; with Decoy Octopus and Sniper Wolf's relegated to artwork.

so like i uh just wanted to see if im not the only person thinking..

quiet straight up loves venom snake? or atleast is fond of him?

i just got over the rain scene with them

She's "in love with the legend", apparently. Parallels are clearly drawn towards Miller and Ocelot's obviously platonic respect for Big Boss, so it's not necessarily intended to be completely romantic, but at the same time there's a lot of room given to infer she has stronger feelings for Venom by the time of her departure.

 

[akidnamededdy]

With the way her arc went, she's got a tiny sliver of good character inside a huge vat of crap.

Yeah, she's like a genuinely good character buried under mountains of crummy writing and pubescent attitudes towards women.

 

[BadWolf]

Did the game ever explain why Chico had earphones in his chest? Did he have the vocal cord parasites too?

Most likely a self inflicted wound out of guilt for what he did to Paz, and betraying BB.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Most likely a self inflicted wound out of guilt for what he did to Paz and betraying BB.

Are we just making stuff up now?

 

[MMarston]

Yeah, she's like a genuinely good character buried under mountains of crummy writing and pubescent attitudes towards women.

Let's be real here though, as much as I rly like the very little good parts of her character, it's the other way around.

The "good character" parts are just the little sugars that dress shit mountain in order to justify her concept.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm not like a Quiet fan or anything -- I've aired my grievances about her before -- but I can buy her falling in love with Venom, or at least developing strong feelings for him.

The following is the way I interpreted their bond.

She tries to kill him, not once but twice (at the hospital and the ruins). Despite this, Venom spares her twice (at the ruins and MB). He also rescues her at the end.

Not only that, but he trusts her enough to accompany him on missions. When your enemy not only spares you but also forgives you and goes the extra step of trusting you, that says a lot about their strength of character and makes an impression.

But it also seems implied they share an intuitive link. It doesn't matter that she doesn't speak; Venom just understands her regardless. Not enough to know the details of her life or the particulars of her secrets, but he seems to have a good emotional read on her.

Venom treats her like a human being -- not the monster she is -- and understands her in a way she hasn't felt understood before. Maybe they can relate because they're both "living weapons," and over the course of the story he softens her through selfless acts and the way he cares for the MB family.

And like Ocelot says during the torture scene (something BB allowed for the sake of stability, and something Quiet seemed to understand, not begrudging him for it): "She's in love with the legend." So maybe the mythical quality of "Big Boss" captured her imagination, as well. She can see why others hold him in high esteem because she sees his heroism on the battlefield.

Just some thoughts on why she might've developed feelings for him. It could be purely non-romantic, but whatever it is, it's there.

 

[BadWolf]

Are we just making stuff up now?

Look at the scene, it's a wound. There's no sound.

He just takes the plug out of the wound and plugs it into the tape recorder that Skull Face gives him.

 

[Roni]

She's supposed to be easy on the eyes and useful on the field. Otherwise people wouldn't feel her departure.

After playing the game I'm pretty sure her character was created backwards. Kojima knew he wanted players to feel loss, for that to happen he needed us to care, playing the numbers he went for good looking female and useful.

 

[GodzillaDB]

I mean yeah they're just Foxhound coats, but I thought it was an interesting little detail none the less.

Wasn't Liquid away from the base dealing with the jet fighter distraction at the time of the Mantis fight? That would explain his weakened state if he didn't have a primary source to draw hatred.

I don't get the hate for Rising. Platinum Games hit it out of the park with their choices. They had just a tight deadline too.

I've been consecutively disappointed by the second "trilogy" (Guns of the Patriots, Peace Walker, MGSV) of main releases with Kojima at the helm, primarily on a narrative basis with compliments to the game-play. Portable Ops and Revengeance demonstrated the series desperately needed a new set of eyes to maintain the sense of entertainment as it continued onward. It's a shame the Rising sequel when into the trash bin once Kojima got the boot.

Did the game ever explain why Chico had earphones in his chest? Did he have the vocal cord parasites too? Also how do I unlock the last wondering mother base soldier side op?

The earphone oddity doesn't ever receive an official explanation, but some speculate it might've been tied with vocal cord experimentation. You should be able to unlock the final wandering mission naturally through simply playing the remaining side-op stuff.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Are we just making stuff up now?

We have to, because the games don't tell us shit lol

Let's be real here though, as much as I rly like the very little good parts of her character, it's the other way around.

The "good character" parts are just the little sugars that dress shit mountain in order to justify her concept.

I'm not sure but I think your way is more depressing.

 

[Berserker976]

True but her missions is to kill Big Boss. She gets burned in the process. She doesn't know for sure the identity of Ishmael but it's obviously an accomplice of Venom so the blame can fall on Venom. She can't exact revenge on a no face person. But she can exact revenge on the person she was planning to kill who has a face and name she can recognize.

It's still a super flimsy excuse for a character to be obsessed with revenge. "Grrrr! this man's possible minion set me on fire while I was strangling his potential boss! That makes me so mad at his maybe boss!"

 

[Tansut]

Hey guys I just finished Mission 46.

What the shit?

 

[sappyday]

It's still a super flimsy excuse for a character to be obsessed with revenge. "Grrrr! this man's possible minion set me on fire while I was strangling his potential boss! That makes me so mad at his maybe boss!"

Yes I agree. Flimsy yes, but it's actually one of the only things about her character that makes a lick of sense.


I have no idea why we didn't get any Skullface/Quiet cassette tapes.

 

[Xiraiya]

I'm not like a Quiet fan or anything -- I've aired my grievances about her before -- but I can buy her falling in love with Venom, or at least developing strong feelings for him.

The following is the way I interpreted their bond.

She tries to kill him, not once but twice (at the hospital and the ruins). Despite this, Venom spares her twice (at the ruins and MB). He also rescues her at the end.

Not only that, but he trusts her enough to accompany him on missions. When your enemy not only spares you but also forgives you and goes the extra step of trusting you, that says a lot about their strength of character and makes an impression.

But it also seems implied they share an intuitive link. It doesn't matter that she doesn't speak; Venom just understands her regardless. Not enough to know the details of her life or the particulars of her secrets, but he seems to have a good emotional read on her.

Venom treats her like a human being -- not a monster she is -- and understands her in a way she hasn't felt understood before. Maybe they can relate because they're both "living weapons," and over the course of the story he softens her through selfless acts and the way he cares for the MB family.

And like Ocelot says during the torture scene (something BB allowed for the sake of stability, and something Quiet seemed to understand): "She's in love with the legend." So maybe the mythical quality of "Big Boss" captured her imagination, as well. She can see why others hold him in high esteem because she sees his heroism on the battlefield.

Just some thoughts on why she might've developed feelings for him.

I don't think about it too much but that is roughly what I interpreted their bond as too, so I appreciate her, she's not my favorite and I don't really take notice of her body, but I don't mind the idea of that character at all, if a girl doesn't want to wear much of anything, that's not really my business to tell her otherwise, I do think the Camera stuff is unnecessary at times but otherwise it's just not something I focus on.

 

[Forkball]

Hey guys I just finished Mission 46.

What the shit?

If you were to describe how you felt using a musical metaphor, what instrument would you chose?

 

[MMarston]

We have to, because the games don't tell us shit lol


I'm not sure but I think your way is more depressing.

One of these days someone's gonna have to do an entire long-post write up for how to do her character story correctly like that NotTheGuyYouKill story post in the last thread.

Hey guys I just finished Mission 46.

What the shit?

WELCOME BRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTHHHEEEER

 

[akidnamededdy]

Hey guys I just finished Mission 46.

What the shit?

Hello and welcome, just so you know your post also serves as an accurate summary of the entire contents of the last two threads.

 

[Tansut]

If you were to describe how you felt using a musical metaphor, what instrument would you chose?

A damn fiddle.

 

[Golnei]

I have no idea why we didn't get any Skullface/Quiet cassette tapes.

I assume Kojima wanted to only depict a sexual assault during the climax of her story rather than pulling it out in a tape fewer players would listen to. Repeating the same dramatic beats would just get stale, and there's no other suitably edgy place they could take her character to explain her dissatisfaction for working under XOF.

 

[Xiraiya]

Wasn't Liquid away from the base dealing with the jet fighter distraction at the time of the Mantis fight? That would explain his weakened state if he didn't have a primary source to draw hatred.

I thought Mantis was useless because of the idea that Snake being unreadable was because he had no hatred, Solid Snake was just there on a Mission, he was carrying out actions with no real feeling or intent beyond "Doing his job" which was a frightening concept to Mantis who had only ever encountered powerful people with equally powerful emotions.

 

[akidnamededdy]

I thought Mantis was useless because of the idea that Snake being unreadable was because he had no hatred, Solid Snake was just there on a Mission, he was carrying out actions with no real feeling or intent beyond "Doing his job" which was a frightening concept to Mantis who had only ever encountered powerful people with equally powerful emotions.

Nah man it's coz Snake put the controller in the other hole

 

[MMarston]

Hello and welcome, just so you know your post also serves as an accurate summary of the entire contents of the last two threads.

The first reactions were gold though
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1098935&page=71

 

[Neiteio]

I assume Kojima wanted to only depict a sexual assault during the climax of her story rather than pulling it out in a tape fewer players would listen to. Repeating the same dramatic beats would just get stale, and there's no other suitably edgy place they could take her character to explain her dissatisfaction for working under XOF.

I'm sleepy and probably misunderstanding you (you might even be joking), but those were Soviets that tried to rape Quiet, not XOF.

Quiet was still working for XOF when she tried to kill Snake in the ruins in Afghanistan. The idea was she'd carry the English-language vocal cord parasite to Mother Base and wipe everyone out. And part of her was eager to do this, since Ishmael torched her. (Again, though, hard for me to sympathize with her when she started it).

At any rate, somewhere along the line, she is won over by Venom's winning combo of mercy, forgiveness, trust, heroism, and ability to read her emotionally and understand her intuitively.

Whether those feelings are like a deep friendship, or something more, I don't know.

 

[Forkball]

The first reactions were gold though
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1098935&page=71

I'm sorry, what

WHAT

Pretty much sums it up.

Also "Never Be Game Over" doesn't make any sense. Everyone knows this right?

Double also, Pig Boss.

 

[BadWolf]

Quite's relationship is handled in an interesting manner because it focuses on the gameplay aspect, on how many times she goes on missions with Venom and how they perform. That is also the reason why a lot of players like her and miss her when she leaves, because she was so damn useful.

So how did their relationship develop (be it comradery or something more)? Through their experiences during missions.

Quite's ending missions won't trigger unless she has a high affection rating with Venom (which you can only get by taking her on missions).

 

[meltingparappa]

The following is the way I interpreted their bond.

When people say that Venom and Quiet's semi-romantic link makes no sense, I'm absolutely baffled because I feel the game communicated what you said in am extremely direct way.

Maybe one could argue the efficacy of what the trope adds to the sum total of her character, but the motivations and how and why the relationship develops seem very clear.

Throw in a pinch of Stockholm and Lima syndromes, and a theory (without clear evidence) that maybe Quiet was unsure if Venom was the real Big Boss she was ordered to kill, and the whole angle felt genuine to the tone of the rest of the game and a good way to incorporate parasites beyond Skullface's scheme to use it as a catch-all super weapon.

Also "Never Be Game Over" doesn't make any sense. Everyone knows this right?

That single sentence made me realize people were probably expecting far too much when interpreting Kojima's intentionally vague "words and deeds" trait. English is clearly not the language he communicates most effectively in.

 

[Xiraiya]

Pretty much sums it up.
Also "Never Be Game Over" doesn't make any sense. Everyone knows this right?
Double also, Pig Boss.

But never be game over, you will always win in life eventually if you never act like it's game over.
It's Japan, have you never played a game from Japan before? They tend to like ridiculous phrases like that, actually so do I.

I just assumed it was a dumb kid thing, because kids do that.

 

[Berserker976]

I'm sleepy and probably misunderstanding you (you might even be joking), but those were Soviets that tried to rape Quiet, not XOF.

Quiet was still working for XOF when she tried to kill Snake in the ruins in Afghanistan. The idea was she'd carry the English-language vocal cord parasite to Mother Base and wipe everyone out. And part of her was eager to do this, since Ishmael torched her. (Again, though, hard for me to sympathize with her when she started it).

At any rate, somewhere along the line, she is won over by Venom's winning combo of mercy, forgiveness, trust, heroism, and ability to read her emotionally and understand her intuitively.

Whether those feelings are like a deep friendship, or something more, I don't know.

I think I would accept the relationship between Quiet and Venom if there was any kind of consistent nonverbal communication between them, establishing that they were getting to know each other. As it stands the only scene that even comes close to attempting that is the rain scene and.... eugh.... just... EUGH!

 

[Reebot]

I thought Mantis was useless because of the idea that Snake being unreadable was because he had no hatred, Solid Snake was just there on a Mission, he was carrying out actions with no real feeling or intent beyond "Doing his job" which was a frightening concept to Mantis who had only ever encountered powerful people with equally powerful emotions.

Mantis in MGS 1 and 4 is clearly not powered by vengeance.

Maybe he dropped that after a few months. Its not a phase mom, vengeance parasitism is who I am.

 

[meltingparappa]

I think I would accept the relationship between Quiet and Venom if there was any kind of consistent nonverbal communication between them, establishing that they were getting to know each other. As it stands the only scene that even comes close to attempting that is the rain scene and.... eugh.... just... EUGH!

I think your own (as the player) experience with using her as a buddy for 50 hours is meant to fill in the gaps, in a way that I found more profound than if it was told entirely through cutscenes of them giving respectful nods at each other.

Mantis in MGS 1 and 4 is clearly not powered by vengeance.

Maybe he dropped that after a few months. Its not a phase mom, vengeance parasitism is who I am.

I think if you're feeling generous you can cite the reason in his backstory from somewhere that is paraphrased as follows from an mgs wiki -

However, during one interrogation in the year 2000, Mantis dove too deeply into the mind of a serial killer and subsequently adopted the subject's personality, becoming psychotic.

 

[Berserker976]

I think your own (as the player) experience with using her as a buddy for 50 hours is meant to fill in the gaps, in a way that I found more profound than if it was told entirely through cutscenes of them giving respectful nods at each other.

Really? Venom giving one word orders to Quiet to start popping heads counts as relationship building? Come on.

 

[Golnei]

I think I would accept the relationship between Quiet and Venom if there was any kind of consistent nonverbal communication between them, establishing that they were getting to know each other. As it stands the only scene that even comes close to attempting that is the rain scene and.... eugh.... just... EUGH!

The rain scene isn't everything - the way she acts towards him in the ACC as their bond deepens, the shower scene, and the greater variety of animations in her cell that depict her growing more comfortable in Mother Base and with Venom all serve as a very effective and understated way of showing their non-verbal connection and her developing character, without so much as a word spoken between them.

I'm sleepy and probably misunderstanding you (you might even be joking), but those were Soviets that tried to rape Quiet, not XOF.

It was more a reference to Kojima's notably clumsy handling of trauma, as shown in the Ground Zeroes tapes, the Quiet torture scene and the B&B backstories. There's no way that expanding on Quiet's situation and what led her to the XOF and parasite therapy after the hospital wouldn't have led to some poorly-handled, quasi-sexual attempts at drama.

 

[Reebot]

Really? Venom giving one word orders to Quiet to start popping heads counts as relationship building? Come on.

Kojima builds deepest relationships.

 

[MMarston]

The rain scene isn't everything - the way she acts towards him in the ACC as their bond deepens, the shower scene, and the greater variety of animations in her cell that depict her growing more comfortable in Mother Base and with Venom all serve as a very effective and understated way of showing their non-verbal connection and her developing character, without so much as a word spoken between them.



It was more a reference to Kojima's notably clumsy handling of trauma, as shown in the Ground Zeroes tapes, the Quiet torture scene and the B&B backstories. There's no way that expanding on Quiet's situation and what led her to the XOF and parasite therapy after the hospital wouldn't have led to some poorly-handled, quasi-sexual attempts at drama.

These satire posts


I like them