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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

foxtrot3d

Banned
Look at the scene, it's a wound. There's no sound.

He just takes the plug out of the wound and plugs it into the tape recorder that Skull Face gives him.

So you're just making stuff up.

No, the real reason is that Kojima didn't know exactly what he wanted to do with the plot but probably figured early on it would have something to do with language. Chico is a left over from the initial concept of that plot.
 
I thought Mantis was useless because of the idea that Snake being unreadable was because he had no hatred, Solid Snake was just there on a Mission, he was carrying out actions with no real feeling or intent beyond "Doing his job" which was a frightening concept to Mantis who had only ever encountered powerful people with equally powerful emotions.
Similarly, I used to believe the second controller port symbolized Solid Snake possessing an impetuous mind. A soldier disciplined to suppress empathy in favor of trigger happy instinct. Psycho Mantis operates as the most powerful character in the entire franchise, but it's surprising how easily he was beatable after all the demonstrations of his abilities.
 
Really? Venom giving one word orders to Quiet to start popping heads counts as relationship building? Come on.
Not in a traditional or deep way. It has gameplay weight though, and if she leaves, there's a tangible absence. Same with killing your infested soldiers who you had to acquire yourself.
 

Neiteio

Member
I think I would accept the relationship between Quiet and Venom if there was any kind of consistent nonverbal communication between them, establishing that they were getting to know each other. As it stands the only scene that even comes close to attempting that is the rain scene and.... eugh.... just... EUGH!
They could've done more, but I felt there were enough nonverbal cues to convey a growing link. The rain scene is the most overt, but you also have bits like the looks they exchange when Venom puts his hand on her shoulder when she first arrives at MB and everyone wants to kill her, or the way she looks at him in trust and without judgment during the interrogation, or my favorite, the way Venom can lean forward and trust her to snipe the tip of his cigar to light it (the birthday scene, something minor but fun nonetheless). Early on in Ch. 2, they're at the point where Venom loses his cool when she dives into the chlorine tank to retrieve the necklace. It's subtle, but it's there. Even the way Quiet's response to the "Quiet" command changes overtime in-game, with her looking down when your bond is low, but gradually warming up to a thumbs-up. Just showing that the trust is there.
 

Reebot

Member
They could've done more, but I felt there were enough nonverbal cues to convey a growing link. The rain scene is the most overt, but you also have bits like the looks they exchange when Venom puts his hand on her shoulder when she first arrives at MB and everyone wants to kill her

Like two seconds before saying he'll shoot her.
 
In that really big post it says:

- Kaz and Ocelot are in on the ruse and are intentionally misleading Punished “Venom” Snake/The Medic/Ahab/The Phantom.
- The real Big Boss, Kaz, Ocelot and Zero have also created another Big Boss because, as much at the world wants him dead, the world also still needs a legend such as Big Boss.

Are these true? I thought kaz didn't find out until the end.
 

Neiteio

Member
Mantis in MGS 1 and 4 is clearly not powered by vengeance.

Maybe he dropped that after a few months. Its not a phase mom, vengeance parasitism is who I am.
I recall the game characterizing Mantis as drawn to negativity, not necessarily vengeance (although vengeance would of course qualify as negativity). Maybe Liquid Snake wasn't the most positive guy.
 
Hey guys I just finished Mission 46.

What the shit?
2611157-0188087885-ibkO7.gif

Yup. Every time.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Like two seconds before saying he'll shoot her.

It potentially coulda been a lot more powerful if the way we lose her is that we had to shoot her, only this time we don't have a choice.

But again, that depends if everything with her before that was done right.
 

Neiteio

Member
Like two seconds before saying he'll shoot her.
And maybe he thinks that, or maybe he doesn't. I felt like he was placating Kaz while privately being unsure what to do, but intuitively feeling there's more to Quiet. I mean, he brought her to Mother Base, and the trust only grows from there.
 

schick85

Member
Kojima doesn't know the reality of having a doppelgänger. He should have saw these pictures of Justin Bieber plastic surgery lookalike or Jennifer Lopez's stuntdouble before going the imposter route. Seriously. (The lookalike is dead BTW)

justin_bieber_lookalike_toby_sheldon_490.jpg

reg_1024.jlo.mh.031612.jpg
 

BadWolf

Member
So you're just making stuff up.

No, the real reason is that Kojima didn't know exactly what he wanted to do with the plot but probably figured early on it would have something to do with language. Chico is a left over from the initial concept of that plot.

And that isn't you making stuff up? Okay.
 
I really wish they hadn't killed off Chico prior to the game. I really liked his voice actor for some reason lol. I think it's because I like Pit so much from Kid Icarus uprising.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
This is gonna be one of those games that throughout the years LTTP threads will pop up and you'll rub your hands together as you get ready to see people's new reactions to the ending.
 

Reebot

Member
I recall the game characterizing Mantis as drawn to negativity, not necessarily vengeance (although vengeance would of course qualify as negativity). Maybe Liquid Snake wasn't the most positive guy.

There's some dialogue about hate, but its not that he's drawn to negativity or anything. Kind of the opposite in a sense; he says he's constantly repulsed and isolated by peering into people's minds because they want to bone everyone. He digs Snake because Snake lives in the moment and is a rad dude.
 

Reebot

Member
It potentially coulda been a lot more powerful if the way we lose her is that we had to shoot her, only this time we don't have a choice.

But again, that depends if everything with her before that was done right.

I really thought it was going in that direction. To my credit the game does directly say "you're gonna kill this lady." What they went with, a fine bait and switch in theory, was way too logical convoluted to be satisfying.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
This is gonna be one of those games that throughout the years LTTP threads will pop up and you'll rub your hands together as you get ready to see people's new reactions to the ending.

It'll basically be the Interstellar of the gaming side
 

Verder

Member
man i just dont even know what to say.

i want to love chapter 2 but i cant.

but then some good cutscenes happen.

but then the missions come.

ugh
 
Why don't I see enough shit against Huey? Is there something I'm missing? Because the dude has always been playing the victim, and he did good. But then you discover that he's a fucking psychopath that killed his wife, spread a virus in MB and shit.

He's the real asshole. Damn it, I wanted him dead.
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
Not in a traditional or deep way. It has gameplay weight though, and if she leaves, there's a tangible absence. Same with killing your infested soldiers who you had to acquire yourself.

Nah, I felt zero emotion during that scene. Oh no, I have to kill those nameless Mother Base soldiers I could never talk to or interact with besides punching them in the face. Oh the horror of having to kill a few guys that I'll just find even better replacements for in about an hour. The humanity! Please don't make me shoot these guys who I barely remember Fultoning.

Hey, want to know an effective way to do a scene like that? Make some actual goddamn characters out of your Mother Base Staff. Think about it if you had to mow down your entire Mass Effect or Dragon Age Companions or hell what about the main leaders in your Base in X-COM, that would be traumatizing. Mother Base as a whole is just a lifeless mesh that felt more alive when all I could do was glare at it in Peace Walker. Fuck, in PW at least a good portion of your squad members had interesting little quotes. Kojima's was like: "70% of my body is made of movies."

Instead, the only thing we get to know about our fulton crew is what languages they speak. Oh boy, I feel really attached to Silent Basilisk now that I know he speaks Russian and fucking Lithuanian. Hot damn. Kojima should have taking que from a plethora of other games when it comes to base management and squad building. Each department should have had their own head who would be their own character. You could then drop into their respective shops and see them doing various shit which would also trigger unique cutscenes. You'd see your support staff dude checking in on a shipment of new supplies, combat leader training some recruits, R&D guys building some new monstrosity and they'd be able to give you unique missions to help level up that department. And then, in Ch. 2 you'd be forced to kill them all.

And that isn't you making stuff up? Okay.

You're right your explanation is much more plausible.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Why don't I see enough shit against Huey? Is there something I'm missing? Because the dude has always been playing the victim, and he did good. But then you discover that he's a fucking psychopath that killed his wife, spread a virus in MB and shit.

He's the real asshole. Damn it, I wanted him dead.

We already exhausted it in the previous thread


EDIT: Still, Fuck Huey
 
Why don't I see enough shit against Huey? Is there something I'm missing? Because the dude has always been playing the victim, and he did good. But then you discover that he's a fucking psychopath that killed his wife, spread a virus in MB and shit.

He's the real asshole. Damn it, I wanted him dead.
He really is the most despicable character in the game - commiting terrible acts under a layer of delusion that he's simply "right." All while doing Olympic level mental gymnastics during the Ocelot torture scene.

He deserves the ultimate fate he received - death by cuckold at the hands of his son.
 

Neiteio

Member
man i just dont even know what to say.

i want to love chapter 2 but i cant.

but then some good cutscenes happen.

but then the missions come.

ugh
Best to think of Ch. 1 as three acts (1-12, 13-20, 21-31) and Ch. 2 as a short story collection that serves the purpose of an epilogue. That's how I saw it while I was playing it. Thematically, you have the quest for revenge, and then the (rather unfulfilling) life they lead after they've had their revenge.

If people are right in their speculation about the nuclear deterrence scene and Ch. 3, it would seem like creating a nuke-free world is the peaceful purpose they ultimately find. But who knows if or when people will unlock that the legit way.
 
I really wish they hadn't killed off Chico prior to the game. I really liked his voice actor for some reason lol. I think it's because I like Pit so much from Kid Icarus uprising.

Oh god dammit I thought he sounded familiar.

Why don't I see enough shit against Huey? Is there something I'm missing? Because the dude has always been playing the victim, and he did good. But then you discover that he's a fucking psychopath that killed his wife, spread a virus in MB and shit.

He's the real asshole. Damn it, I wanted him dead.

Everyone is in agreement that Huey sucks ass and is a bad person so there isn't much more to discuss about him.

Although now I'm wondering...he used Otacon as a test pilot for Sahelanthropus. But at the time of the game, Otacon is 4. So uhhhh why would you use a toddler as a test pilot on a top secret walking tank? Best case scenario it works, and now a toddler is in control of a giant mech...huh.
 
MGS Community expecting Christmas Day release date announcement:
Kojima's shirt says "The 22nd and the 6th", written in Swedish. This was a reference to Herman Melville's sixth book, Moby Dick. Chapter 22 of Moby Dick is titled "Merry Christmas". Coincidence? NO.

[Kojima Station arrives Christmas Day]
>Kojima unwraps gifts
>Kojima shows off Ground Zeroes running on PC, a week after its release
>Kojima fists Hai Lady live on air
>Kojima unwraps gifts
>Kojima reveals Chicken Hat

MGS Community's response:
"Guys, the day isn't over yet!"

👏👀✨
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Thankfully, I didn't stay up for that shit
I miss the pre MGSV hype tbh. Good times.
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
He really is the most despicable character in the game - commiting terrible acts under a layer of delusion that he's simply "right." All while doing Olympic level mental gymnastics during the Ocelot torture scene.

He deserves the ultimate fate he received - death by cuckold at the hands of his son.

AHAHAH! Damn, that cracks me up. But, I'm pretty sure it was the lack of oxygen from drowning himself that killed him. Also, it's not exactly justice. He gets off pretty easy.
 
In that really big post it says:

- Kaz and Ocelot are in on the ruse and are intentionally misleading Punished “Venom” Snake/The Medic/Ahab/The Phantom.
- The real Big Boss, Kaz, Ocelot and Zero have also created another Big Boss because, as much at the world wants him dead, the world also still needs a legend such as Big Boss.

Are these true? I thought kaz didn't find out until the end.
I believe Kaz didn't find out the true identity of Venom Snake until after the events Phantom Pain based on how Mother Base soldiers begin to express awareness of the ruse once you've completed the "truth" mission. Some speculate it occurs sometime earlier based on his irritated reactions to several of Venom's decisions, but no one has pin-pointed where he begins to express this realization since he seemed convinced you were the real deal during the rescue op. I'm particularly more curious to know when Ocelot snapped out of his self-hypnosis.
 

sappyday

Member
And maybe he thinks that, or maybe he doesn't. I felt like he was placating Kaz while privately being unsure what to do, but intuitively feeling there's more to Quiet. I mean, he brought her to Mother Base, and the trust only grows from there.

Venom only shows motivations when its convenient. Venom doesn't really have a personality. We don't know if Venom is sad or not about Quiet leaving since Kojima wants to leave it as a vector for the player. In this type of storytelling it doesn't work.
 
Oh god dammit I thought he sounded familiar

Haha yeah. I couldn't place him at first but then it dawned on me during Ground Zeroes.

___

So I can't remember or they might have not outright stated it with proof but did huey actually have anything to do with the original mother base attack? Or did he actually think it was a legit inspection? I know he was in contact with cypher later with the whole virus thing but what about before?
 

Neiteio

Member
I believe Kaz didn't find out the true identity of Venom Snake until after the events Phantom Pain based on how Mother Base soldiers begin to express awareness of the ruse once you've completed the "truth" mission. Some speculate it occurs sometime earlier based on his irritated reactions to several of Venom's decisions, but no one has pin-pointed where he begins to express this realization since he seemed convinced you were the real deal during the rescue op. I'm particularly more curious to know when Ocelot snapped out of his self-hypnosis.
Seems pretty clear to me that Kaz learns it at some point after Mission 45 but before Mission 46. Kaz says to Ocelot (and I paraphrase) "In the meantime, you and I will have to go back to coexisting," meaning Kaz learned the truth while they were still serving with Venom back on Mother Base. This would also explain the other troops on Mother Base coming to know the truth about Venom.

Would've been interesting to see a cutscene where Kaz, Ocelot and Venom break the news.
 

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
If anything, after finding out the circumstances behind the twist, Venom was a bigger waste of character than Quiet, just for the sake of meta-ness.
 

Neiteio

Member
Venom only shows motivations when its convenient. Venom doesn't really have a personality. We don't know if Venom is sad or not about Quiet leaving since Kojima wants to leave it as a vector for the player. In this type of storytelling it doesn't work.
I think Venom cares. He showed his feelings not long before that mission when he panicked over Quiet in the chlorine tank and when he had his moment with her in the rain. I just think that when she made the decision to leave, he had the grace to accept it. Grace is sometimes accepting the things you can't control.

But I think you're right that being a "vector for the player" might've been the intent. And obviously everyone's mileage will vary.
 

Reebot

Member
If anything, after finding out the circumstances behind the twist, Venom was a bigger waste of character than Quiet, just for the sake of meta-ness.

Venom had a significant and long-lasting part of the Big Boss legacy by doing some covert stuff that will never once be talked about ever again.
 

Neiteio

Member
If anything, after finding out the circumstances behind the twist, Venom was a bigger waste of character than Quiet, just for the sake of meta-ness.
Personally, I don't value Venom for his meta-ness. I value him for acting as a foil to BB.

Venom himself seems OK with BB (at least in the present), but the player won't be as favorable to BB once they realize they are receiving the raw end of the deal. It's clear that BB went along with a plan that sacrificed Venom, his army, even the hospital. It's a step beyond harboring a nuke. Now he's misusing his own men, the very reason he swore to disavow government after the death of the Boss. He's become a hypocrite where people are expendable and the ends justify the means. For me it hits harder because I spend all this time with Venom only to learn BB has effectively doomed him. This makes me sour on BB more than if I simply saw scenes of him being a bad dude, because -I- feel betrayed.

But that might just me.
 

Verder

Member
Personally, I don't value Venom for his meta-ness. I value him for acting as a foil to BB.

Venom himself seems OK with BB (at least in the present), but the player won't be as favorable to BB once they realize they are receiving the raw end of the deal. It's clear that BB went along with a plan that sacrificed Venom, his army, even the hospital. It's a step beyond harboring a nuke. Now he's misusing his own men, the very reason he swore to disavow government after the death of the Boss. He's become a hypocrite where people are expendable and the ends justify the means. For me it hits harder because I spend all this time with Venom only to learn BB has effectively doomed him. This makes me sour on BB more than if I simply saw scenes of him being a bad dude, because -I- feel betrayed.

But that might just me.

this is pretty much my view too.

big boss may have not been the "villian" but hes just as evil for using venom
 

Golnei

Member
Snake (wearing a Big Boss alt): "Pit, we need to check Palutena for snukes."

Pit: "For whaaaaaaaaa?!"


Pit: I don't think I've seen that guy around.

Palutena: That's Shulk. He's 18 years old and clocks in at 5 feet 6 inches.

Pit: Well, yeah, but why is he naked?

Palutena: I don't understand the question.

Pit: Where are his clothes?

Palutena: Don't be so judgmental, Pit. It could be a personal decision, or part of his culture. I'm confident that once you know the secret reason for his exposure, you will be ashamed of your words and deeds.

Pit: ...Right.
 

Permanently A

Junior Member
Is there a way to wake up Paz after showing her a photo? I even tried using the phantom cigar. Do I really have to go off mother base each time?
 

Neiteio

Member
Pit: I don't think I've seen that guy around.

Palutena: That's Shulk. He's 18 years old and clocks in at 5 feet 6 inches.

Pit: Well, yeah, but why is he naked?

Palutena: I don't understand the question.

Pit: Where are his clothes?

Palutena: Don't be so judgmental, Pit. It could be a personal decision, or part of his culture. I'm confident that once you know the secret reason for his exposure, you will be ashamed of your words and deeds.

Pit: ...Right.
I don't think Kojima rikes that. I don't think Kojima rikes that at all!
 

Alienous

Member
So Quiet got burned alive and got the parasites that keep you sexy on the outside, even when your insides are all burned up.

And Skull Face didn't?

Also, shouldn't it be really hard to talk with burned up lungs?
 
So why exactly was I forced to replay the epilogue in mission 46. After the reveal and then flaming up quiet it should cut to the crash. There is nothing gleamed from replaying that bit knowing your not big boss rather than just wondering if your big boss or that's you having a Tyler moment.

At least it's done now. Just the two quiet missions and fuck knows how much time in tapes to go.
 
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