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[CrichtonKicks]

I just spent like an hour or two exploring the Africa map, just looking around the edges of the map, checking canyons, waterfalls if there are caves behind it. Anything, really.

But there's nothing. Fucking nothing. No cool surprises or easter eggs, no hidden secrets, nothing that makes exploring rewarding in any way, aside from the goddamn medical plants.

This game gets compared to Far Cry 3/4 a lot and I can absolutely see that, but whoever at Kojima Productions took the cliffnotes when playing Far Cry completely missed the point of how to reward a player for exploring. In Far Cry, there's always something to find. No matter where you go, there's always some hidden cave or some cool ruin or some nice little platforming segment.

MGSV's maps undoubtedly costed tremendous effort, but it was a complete waste of everybody's time [both devs and players alike].

I feel the opposite- I appreciate the game's discipline in this area. The moment you put a single easter egg in the game in an out of the way area then you immediately think "wow, I wonder what else there is?" and that triggers the instinct to comb the game map looking for more. As the game is now I know that there aren't any collectibles or other things to find so I just focus on the missions. Works for me.

 

[YoRHa No.2 Type B]

Is this thread even able to provide any new spoilers?

 

[Markoman]

Is this thread even able to provide any new spoilers?

Of course....Chico is dead!!!!!!!!!

 

[heringer]

You might have thought it was for MGO, and technically it is you first character, but most people knew that we weren't playing as Big Boss even before the game came out. It was so obvious and even more so during the prologue.

And regarding themes I didn't really pay any attention to them, it never stood out like previous games. In fact I'm not really sure what the themes are in MGSV, probably something to do with development budget and time constraints because that's all I was thinking about after "finishing" the game.

Really? I'm glad I started the game blind then, because it totally took me by surprise. I thought the whole Ishmael/Ahab thing was a dual personality disorder or something.

 

[OBias]

Why couldn't Quiet communicate through written notes? I thought the vocal cord parasites only react to spoken words.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Why couldn't Quiet communicate through written notes? I thought the vocal cord parasites only react to spoken words.

Paper wasn't invented in the 1980s

 

[PreFire]

Really? I'm glad I started the game blind then, because it totally took me by surprise. I thought the whole Ishmael/Ahab thing was a dual personality disorder or something.

I did too until Ishmael got shot while driving the ambulance. There were a couple of things that could have been explained as hallucinations but right from the get shit didn't make sense. Quiet has you dead to rights then all of a sudden your conscience, who's well and able, saves you?

The head transplant surgeon (his character was known months before release), the character creation then all of a sudden you're still "big boss" when looking in the mirror. The fact he's so quiet, DNA didn't match Eli, and a bunch of other shit like the scars and prosthetic arm not being in MGS 4. The electric cigar. Otacon's dad even says "snake, that's not you." Or something like that when you first meet him. The reflection on the glass when you're on the helicopter. All hints anyone could've easily missed

I had no idea it would be the medic, but I just knew you weren't big boss.

The same voice shit throws you off a bit, bet a bunch of you wish the real big boss in TPP was Hayter.

 

[Markoman]

Why couldn't Quiet communicate through written notes? I thought the vocal cord parasites only react to spoken words.

Because of reasons you know...dyslexis??? ;P

Why couldn't Cipher put BB in a private hospital located in a bunker guarded by his elite forces? .....because it is very plausible to make a copy of someone then keeping him 8 feet away from the original. This sounds like a Marx Brother's plan to me.

Let's not start with this.....

 

[Srey Plaughtered]

Why couldn't Quiet communicate through written notes? I thought the vocal cord parasites only react to spoken words.

Little do we know her Parasites can read through her finger movements when she writes too because plot device.

 

[Goteki_45]

Finally finished the game today and saw the true ending. I can see the hate that some people have towards the ending, but what really pissed me off was that I wasn't playing as the REAL Big Boss. All this time I've been playing as double copy of BB while the real one was in hiding doing his own thing.

 

[Clear]

Finally finished the game today and saw the true ending. I can see the hate that some people have towards the ending, but what really pissed me off was that I wasn't playing as the REAL Big Boss. All this time I've been playing as double copy of BB while the real one was in hiding doing his own thing.

I will never understand for the life of me why this is bothering people. At least with Raiden the bait-and-switch led to character that was significantly different to what was expected, but this... you have a character that is to all intents and purposes BB both in storyline and game-play terms.

Venom is BB on the global stage, and for the overwhelming majority of the story believes himself to be the one and only... which leads to some interesting questions about the nature of free will in both a fictional and ludic sense. Would you really behave differently knowing you were playing BB's phantom as opposed to BB himself?

 

[GreyOcelot]

I feel the opposite- I appreciate the game's discipline in this area. The moment you put a single easter egg in the game in an out of the way area then you immediately think "wow, I wonder what else there is?" and that triggers the instinct to comb the game map looking for more. As the game is now I know that there aren't any collectibles or other things to find so I just focus on the missions. Works for me.

Yeah i have zero interest in searching for useless collectibles around the map, I've already hit 120+hours without exploring like that at all. In fact, in the first 50+ hours of the game, i very rarely did more than one mission or sideop without returning to the acc, especially when i went out without dhorse or a vehicle (unless i could box travel)

Having said that. Some cool easter eggs or more random events would have been cool.

This is where the argument for more iteration in gaming comes up. If koji pro were allowed to iterate on this in 2 years or so, I'm sure more inventive side ops and more things to do in the open world would result. Unfortunately that won't happen. And even if it did at this point, it would most likely be a terrible konami microtransaction collectathon. metal gear unity

 

[Srey Plaughtered]

I will never understand for the life of me why this is bothering people. At least with Raiden the bait-and-switch led to character that was significantly different to what was expected, but this... you have a character that is to all intents and purposes BB both in storyline and game-play terms.

Venom is BB on the global stage, and for the overwhelming majority of the story believes himself to be the one and only... which leads to some interesting questions about the nature of free will in both a fictional and ludic sense. Would you really behave differently knowing you were playing BB's phantom as opposed to BB himself?

It's bothering people because the game was marketed to show Big Boss's downfall into becoming a villain. We never actually got to see it properly, or at least not how everyone wanted to. Instead what we got was Big Boss's off screen descent into villainy and Venom actually being a relatively good guy. Two fiddling with one stick.

Nothing against Venom though, he's pretty damn good and earned the title of Big Medic even more so than Big Boss earned his imo.

 

[Jackpot]

I just spent like an hour or two exploring the Africa map, just looking around the edges of the map, checking canyons, waterfalls if there are caves behind it. Anything, really.

But there's nothing. Fucking nothing. No cool surprises or easter eggs, no hidden secrets, nothing that makes exploring rewarding in any way, aside from the goddamn medical plants.

The only areas in Africa that didn't feel like generic plains were the waterfall where you first start and Code Talker's area. Coincidentally the only areas that were shown in gameplay videos.

 

[heringer]

I will never understand for the life of me why this is bothering people. At least with Raiden the bait-and-switch led to character that was significantly different to what was expected, but this... you have a character that is to all intents and purposes BB both in storyline and game-play terms.

Venom is BB on the global stage, and for the overwhelming majority of the story believes himself to be the one and only... which leads to some interesting questions about the nature of free will in both a fictional and ludic sense. Would you really behave differently knowing you were playing BB's phantom as opposed to BB himself?

I agree that for all intents and purposes Venom IS Big Boss. He is part of the legend, not only in brand but also in deeds. What bothers people is that he isn't MGS3 Big Boss.

I loved the twist because it also shows real BB as a hypocrite scumbag.

 

[akidnamededdy]

I feel the opposite- I appreciate the game's discipline in this area. The moment you put a single easter egg in the game in an out of the way area then you immediately think "wow, I wonder what else there is?" and that triggers the instinct to comb the game map looking for more. As the game is now I know that there aren't any collectibles or other things to find so I just focus on the missions. Works for me.

...isn't this exactly what people want out of an open world? A reason to actually explore it?

This game shouldn't have been full blown open world. It would've saved everybody time and money. Kojima tried to beat western developers at their own game and he failed.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I will never understand for the life of me why this is bothering people. At least with Raiden the bait-and-switch led to character that was significantly different to what was expected, but this... you have a character that is to all intents and purposes BB both in storyline and game-play terms.

Venom is BB on the global stage, and for the overwhelming majority of the story believes himself to be the one and only... which leads to some interesting questions about the nature of free will in both a fictional and ludic sense. Would you really behave differently knowing you were playing BB's phantom as opposed to BB himself?

That's why I like the ending so much. It poses some interesting questions. For me, it also raises other considerations apart from those you already mentioned.

For instance, identity, particularly the player's relationship with the avatar's. Where do we draw the line between Venom, Big Boss and ourselves? How much does the Big Boss myth, a myth that permeates the entire series, have to do with his/their identity and our part in it?

I think the question has something to do with the moment we are given control over whether to kill Quiet. It's a half formed thought at the moment, but I don't think the similarities to MGS3's key moment should be written off as a simple call back. The fact Venom/Player has a choice is in stark contrast to the way Big Boss/Player is forced to pull the trigger. It's curious.

Then of course we have the seemingly spiky issue of authenticity. We spent the entire game believing we were Big Boss only to have that pulled away (hence the vitriolic reactions). But... if it looks like BB, acts like BB, sounds like BB, thinks like BB, has all of BB's skills, and is seen to actually be BB... where does the actual difference lie?

...isn't this exactly what people want out of an open world? A reason to actually explore it?

This game shouldn't have been full blown open world. It would've saved everybody time and money. Kojima tried to beat western developers at their own game and he failed.

It isn't really open world. Kojima did try to explain that and admitted he probably didn't communicate it all that well.

This is exactly the sort of comment that makes me think people are judging the game against an idealised version in their head or what they want it to be rather than on its own merits.

 

[Clear]

It's bothering people because the game was marketed to show Big Boss's downfall into becoming a villain. We never actually got to see it properly, or at least not how everyone wanted to. Instead what we got was Big Boss's off screen descent into villainy and Venom actually being a relatively good guy. Two fiddling with one stick.

Was it though? I can understand why you might think that, but to me it was just another misdirect on Kojima's part.

Men do become demons in the story, both figuratively through the primary motivator for virtually all of the characters being revenge and literally with the demon point system.

The downfall of BB is the re-establishment of MB (and later of Outer Heaven) as a military nation-state that exists for no higher purpose than to facilitate revenge against Skullface and ultimately Cipher. The "mission" is no longer seeing The Boss's will made reality (ironically the bad guys are the ones at least superficially holding this torch), its about vengeance.

The final tipping-point being the anti-climactic killing of Skull Face. This is the natural end of the story, as the mission that began in PW and GZ is finally completred, and yet... nothing ends. It just drifts on, carried by no more than the momentum of individual hate and recrimination.

This is Skull Face's last laugh. It's war without end driven purely by a thirst for vengeance. Miller, who is literally shown as being blinded by his own rage at the start of chapter 2, just shifts the target of his ire as new information becomes available. His thirst for vengeance is insatiable.

 

[Kinyou]

Man, I kind of already expected a lackluster ending since I already heard all those complains about a missing chapter 3. What I did not expect is that they would just take Quiet away. Without her I kind of feel less inclined to finish all the sideops stuff. Not cool.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Man, I kind of already expected a lackluster ending since I already heard all those complains about a missing chapter 3. What I did not expect is that they would just take Quiet away. Without her I kind of feel less inclined to finish all the sideops stuff. Not cool.

The Phantom Pain is real...

 

[Timeaisis]

Why couldn't Quiet communicate through written notes? I thought the vocal cord parasites only react to spoken words.

Kaz outlawed pens on Mother Base.

 

[Neiteio]

Kaz outlawed pens on Mother Base.

A pen burst in Kaz's pocket, leaving an ink stain on his pants that won't wash away. The Phantom Stain. No more writing utensils on Mother Base. Kaz must have his revenge.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Everything MGS3 Ocelot did was an act intended to throw off any party interested in the Philosopher's Legacy, and he took that constructed persona on to Portable Ops' ending. The torture fixation, the gun twirling, the hand gestures, being shown up by The Boss, the more blatant displays of affection towards Big Boss; they were all planned from the beginning to conceal his true self.

I'm afraid this is just tales from your ass, friend.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I'm afraid this is just tales from your ass, friend.

I don't fully agree with that post but it is worth pointing out that MGS3 Ocelot probably isn't Ocelot's real personality considering he's acting as a triple agent even then.

 

[A.Romero]

Everyone loves child soldiers bruh, get with the times.

Tactical use of child labour!

 

[Kinyou]

Why couldn't Quiet communicate through written notes? I thought the vocal cord parasites only react to spoken words.

I guess you could wonder what she would have to say. Telling everyone that she's infected with parasites that could kill everyone if she speaks english is probably off the table. And revealing that she was originally working for Skullface would probably mean that she's even more mistrusted.

The Phantom Pain is real...

It is. D-Dog just doesn't fill that hole

Spoiler

archer-phrasing.gif

 

[Reebot]

Venom is BB on the global stage, and for the overwhelming majority of the story believes himself to be the one and only... which leads to some interesting questions about the nature of free will in both a fictional and ludic sense. Would you really behave differently knowing you were playing BB's phantom as opposed to BB himself?

Great to have Stretch Armstrong stop by the thread.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I guess you could wonder what she would have to say. Telling everyone that she's infected with parasites that could kill everyone if she speaks english is probably off the table. And revealing that she was originally working for Skullface would probably mean that she's even more mistrusted.

A simple "hello" once in a while would've been nice.

Side thought: Quiet dresses like a stripper. Later in the game you can "make it rain" which causes her to dance.

Huh.

It is. D-Dog just doesn't fill that hole

Spoiler

archer-phrasing.gif

Prude.

Great to have Stretch Armstrong stop by the thread.

Special Guest Star - Buzz Killington. Great to see you.

 

[Moon_frogger]

I don't fully agree with that post but it is worth pointing out that MGS3 Ocelot probably isn't Ocelot's real personality considering he's acting as a triple agent even then.

that's a whole lot of probabilities and maybes with absolutely nothing in game to back it up though. I mean, if you want to entertain that theory great, I can't disprove it but it would basically mean that laid back, happy go lucky texan is ocelots real personality. do you really want to believe that?

 

[Iceternal]

There's both gameplay and story purpose. Growing motherbase gives you new weapons and itens, it's a metagame.

And DD does turn into Outer Heaven.

Hmm no it doesn't, Big Boss builds Outer Heaven while Venom is building DD; they're two different things.

 

[Clear]

Great to have Stretch Armstrong stop by the thread.

Nice drive-by ad hominem.

Aren't there supposed to be rules against this sort of thread-shitting?

 

[Reebot]

Nice drive-by ad hominem.

Aren't there supposed to be rules against this sort of thread-shitting?

If there were, would it effect the way you posted?

I think this raises interesting questions of free will.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Nice drive-by ad hominem.

Aren't there supposed to be rules against this sort of thread-shitting?

I've come to realize the moderation here isn't the greatest at times. I'm sure I'll be punished for even mentioning this.

 

[Nintendoga]

Hmm no it doesn't, Big Boss builds Outer Heaven while Venom is building DD; they're two different things.

Wait I'm having a brain fart, so the credits say Big Boss built Outer Heaven, but did he start building Zanzibar land before or after MG1?

 

[Moon_frogger]

Wait I'm having a brain fart, so the credits say Big Boss built Outer Heaven, but did he start building Zanzibar land before or after MG1?

I could be wrong but I don't think he built zanzibar land, just came to be it's leader.

 

[Berserker976]

Nice drive-by ad hominem.

Aren't there supposed to be rules against this sort of thread-shitting?

lol, come on man, it's a cheeky way of saying that it's a stretch. We're all friends, here

To his point though, I find that a lot of the arguments you're making that tie into the gameplay representations of the themes of the game were mostly present in PW, a game that does not share those themes. How do you reconcile this?

 

[Neiteio]

Everyone think about rain boobs and relax

 

[JeffZero]

Well, my best friend finished the game last night, and he said that while the ending twist "hurt", he still felt satisfied with the ending itself, and that the game was essentially everything he wanted. In all honesty, he's so hopelessly MGS-glued that I feel the game could have been a ten-minute web seminar on growing your own tomatoes and he'd find a way to justify it, but he's my best friend, and I'm happy for him. He's managed to avoid the phantom pain many of us are experiencing, and maybe he even means it true. I don't know. He certainly enjoyed the gameplay mechanics, and I can't fault him there.

Me? Eh, when folks ask me for my rankings of the series in future years, I'll likely continue saying "3>1=4>2." I'll neglect to mention V, and PW by association. (That game has really gone down in my heart since I was recently forced to stop treating it as prelude to something bigger. Poor PW.)

I don't think I'll ever touch MGSV again, but I'm happy for my friend, and all those who, like him, have walked away satisfied.

 

[Reebot]

Special Guest Star - Buzz Killington. Great to see you.

I mean come on dude. "Changing the way you play" "raises interesting questions of free will?"

Lets get real. A fly on my TV changes the way I play but its hardly the insect version of Kant.

 

[Clear]

lol, come on man, it's a cheeky way of saying that it's a stretch. We're all friends, here

To his point though, I find that a lot of the arguments you're making that tie into the gameplay representations of the themes of the game were mostly present in PW, a game that does not share those themes. How do you reconcile this?

How is it a stretch to wonder if people would approach the gameplay and the various story events differently were Venom's identity made explicit from the start? Especially when people are reacting so negatively to the reveal at the very end?

I understand the distaste for the old "but it was only a dream" twist, because that nullifies the value of the events preceding the rug-pull, but in this case that's not applicable as every event in TPP has an impact on events going forwards. For both big bosses.

I've only played a little bit of PW, so I'm afraid I can't honestly comment further.

 

[Reebot]

Everyone think about rain boobs and relax

I would but, you know, the shame of my deeds

 

[CrichtonKicks]

I did too until Ishmael got shot while driving the ambulance. There were a couple of things that could have been explained as hallucinations but right from the get shit didn't make sense. Quiet has you dead to rights then all of a sudden your conscience, who's well and able, saves you?

The head transplant surgeon (his character was known months before release), the character creation then all of a sudden you're still "big boss" when looking in the mirror. The fact he's so quiet, DNA didn't match Eli, and a bunch of other shit like the scars and prosthetic arm not being in MGS 4. The electric cigar. Otacon's dad even says "snake, that's not you." Or something like that when you first meet him. The reflection on the glass when you're on the helicopter. All hints anyone could've easily missed

I had no idea it would be the medic, but I just knew you weren't big boss.

The same voice shit throws you off a bit, bet a bunch of you wish the real big boss in TPP was Hayter.

The big clue to me was if you look behind Snake when crawling on the floor in the hospital you see that Ishmael's side of the room is absolutely covered with those flowers that were the favorite of the Boss.

...isn't this exactly what people want out of an open world? A reason to actually explore it?

It depends on the game and the quality of the world. If it's Ubi style with a bunch of uninteresting collectibles or other things that have a negligible impact on the game then no, I don't need that in an open world. Especially if it's an open world where there are some things that are cool and interesting (AC2's Codex pages) and some that are totally worthless (AC2's feathers) but I won't know until I start exploring. I spend 80% of my time looking for the 20% of stuff that I like.

Personally, I love the open world stuff in the Arkham games. As a Batman fan all of the Easter Eggs, riddles, unlockable tapes, etc are pure nirvana and I find that they have a really good density of content to the world size. But there are very few open world games that push my buttons like that.

like the way that MGSV's open world plays into the wide open sandbox nature of the main missions. That's enough for me. By choosing not to fill the game with a bunch of collectibles that may or may not be worth it I never had to spend time doing activities that I found uninteresting.

Would random events, dynamic battlefields, etc be cool? Absolutely. But very, very few open worlds actually take that kind of approach so I find it hard to hold their absence against MGSV when most other major open world games don't have similar systems.

 

[Screaming Meat]

that's a whole lot of probabilities and maybes with absolutely nothing in game to back it up though. I mean, if you want to entertain that theory great, I can't disprove it but it would basically mean that laid back, happy go lucky texan is ocelots real personality. do you really want to believe that?

Well, the in-game justification is that the dude's a triple agent. Do spies usually act like themselves and reveal their genuine internal thought processes? Who knows. Not me.

Personally, I don't think Ocelot has a personality. He's a... Cipher.

*musical sting*

I mean come on dude. "Changing the way you play" "raises interesting questions of free will?"

Lets get real. A fly on my TV changes the way I play but its hardly the insect version of Kant.

Is that what the poster meant by "change the way you play" or are you taking the meaning of the term a wee bit literally? Have you asked the fly about categorical imperatives lately?

 

[Reebot]

Is that what the poster meant by "change the way you play" or are you taking the meaning of the term a wee bit literally? Have you asked the fly about categorical imperatives lately?

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he meant mentally change.

Its still a completely ridiculous proposition.

 

[Clear]

Well, the in-game justification is that the dude's a triple agent. Do spies usually act like themselves and reveal their genuine internal thought processes? Who knows. Not me.

Personally, I don't think Ocelot has a personality. He's a... Cipher.

*musical sting*

My thinking about Ocelot has always been that he's mono-maniacally driven to constantly prove he is the true son and heir to the Boss.

He knows he can't be the icon that BB is, but what he can do is match the Boss's all encompassing devotion to the mission. Essentially in the pursuit of this he has given up any sort of individual personality he once had. Even though BB is his "brother" and rival as heir, he can only oppose him if the mission demands it as part of the role he's playing.

 

[Srey Plaughtered]

Was it though? I can understand why you might think that, but to me it was just another misdirect on Kojima's part.

Men do become demons in the story, both figuratively through the primary motivator for virtually all of the characters being revenge and literally with the demon point system.

The downfall of BB is the re-establishment of MB (and later of Outer Heaven) as a military nation-state that exists for no higher purpose than to facilitate revenge against Skullface and ultimately Cipher. The "mission" is no longer seeing The Boss's will made reality (ironically the bad guys are the ones at least superficially holding this torch), its about vengeance.

The final tipping-point being the anti-climactic killing of Skull Face. This is the natural end of the story, as the mission that began in PW and GZ is finally completred, and yet... nothing ends. It just drifts on, carried by no more than the momentum of individual hate and recrimination.

This is Skull Face's last laugh. It's war without end driven purely by a thirst for vengeance. Miller, who is literally shown as being blinded by his own rage at the start of chapter 2, just shifts the target of his ire as new information becomes available. His thirst for vengeance is insatiable.

I thought the story's pretty good and will have long legs like MGS2 i.e. we'll keep discovering something that makes it interesting in the long run. Still the problem remains that no one likes to be fiddled and when the ending leaves more questions and confusions it just annoys people, especially when MGSV was supposed to be the missing link. There's some really good stuff there like the cycles of revenge. I liked Skullface's tape with Paz where she asks him does he hate Big Boss.

Either way like I said, in a few months or even a year someone will do an indepth analysis of everything we've missed and we'll see everyone praising the story and the themes, kind of how things went for MGS2.

 

[Iceternal]

Wait I'm having a brain fart, so the credits say Big Boss built Outer Heaven, but did he start building Zanzibar land before or after MG1?

See ? DD =/= Outer Heaven

 

[A-V-B]

Hollywood has trained you to expect plot and character resolution.

Countless stories throughout human history - including the majority of the most influential, critically acclaimed, or successful - have not ended by addressing the plot.

The plot is the least important aspect of any story.

This post makes me feel like I've walked into a Looney Tunes episode.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he meant mentally change.

Its still a completely ridiculous proposition.

It's weird holding two conversations across as many threads XD

I kind of think it does have an effect, at least on some people. Think of it in terms of one of the major complaints: people are really pissed they didn't get to actually play as Big Boss or see his downfall. People have retroactively reevaluated the game based on the twist. I know I feel odd whenever the MB staff salute me and say "Boss".

I genuinely think that raises an interesting question regarding the player's relationship to their avatar's identity (maybe not so much Free Will, though, but I see the poster's point). Mainly: "Does it matter?" and "Why?"

My thinking about Ocelot has always been that he's mono-maniacally driven to constantly prove he is the true son and heir to the Boss.

He knows he can't be the icon that BB is, but what he can do is match the Boss's all encompassing devotion to the mission. Essentially in the pursuit of this he has given up any sort of individual personality he once had. Even though BB is his "brother" and rival as heir, he can only oppose him if the mission demands it as part of the role he's playing.

I dunno if it's the Boss he's proving himself against as much as Big Boss. Ocelot has some serious Bro/Foe Yay that even he can't hide. He practically soils his pants when he tells Solidus he looks like BB (I know it wasn't planned...).

 

[Clear]

Either way like I said, in a few months or even a year someone will do an indepth analysis of everything we've missed and we'll see everyone praising the story and the themes, kind of how things went for MGS2.

I agree.

I think if nothing else it will be reevaluated on the basis of Kojima's intentions, as opposed to his successful execution of those intentions.