Support NeoGAF

[Johndoey]

Nah, Big Mama was awesome. Seeing Snake meeting and reconnecting with his surrogate mother, the reveals within the cutscene and then ending in a spectacular chase IF you played it with the cinematic camera. Also, you could hug her if you hold triangle which also works as a small cover. Even Big Boss was awesome, without him the game wouldn't have ended as memorably as it did "This is good, isn't it?"

It would have ended with either Snake killing himself which is the predictable route since all the trailers and also throughout the course of the game you just feel like YUP HE'S GONNA DIE IN THE END. The other ending would be him and Otacon getting executed which is pretty fucking stupid and not in a good way.



She thought it was BB's corpse(Well to fool the A.I patroits, for the greater good and all that shit).

Edit: I love MGS4, it's my favorite one but I know it has very loud haters as well. I'm in the boat that adores the first 5 games though. All of them are fantastic and each has their ups as well as downs.

But why would Solid Snake care if she was his surrogate, thats my issue Solid more than most of the other characters in the series is his own man. The emotion he shows toward Eva and Big Boss strikes as out of place and false when you look at who that character is.
If anything he should've been condemning them for their actions. Again it feels like absentee parents showing up when your thirty going "Sorry I never come around ever/ Sorry I tried to murder you twice can you helps us out of a bind?"

 

[Rymuth]

MGS4 is a goddamn mess, she really didn't need to be in that game and honestly neither did Big Boss.

The only one who NEEDED to be in the game was Johnny Sasaki Sr. Would have been thematically poetic to see him and his grandson lose control of their bowel movements together.

But he was cut.

 

[SomTervo]

Thx Som, I can finally live with that explanation.

Regarding my Skullface theory: Why in hell would Kojima choose the one small region from the "dark"-part of Europe, which is only known because of one thing in literature/culture??? I'm not saying that Skullface lives on in humanoid form as Vamp, I've said: "sort of".

The Boss' persona is transferred into an AI
Big Boss is cloned
Why wouldn't a similar concept work for Skullface. He only lives physically in MGSV because of the parasites. I think SF is a symbiotic lifeform - he is not a human being by definition.

It's a nice idea, but it only matches up based on where they're from. And they're not even from the same place, they're from the same (very large) region.

Skullface was a military executive officer for a clean-up squad, who ultimately went rogue. Vamp is a nanomachines test subject from the 90s. They are totally different, there's no actual story connection between them. Skullface is a microcosm who exists only for MGSV.

 

[Golnei]

The only one who NEEDED to be in the game was Johnny Sasaki Sr. Would have been thematically poetic to see him and his grandson lose control of their bowel movements together.

In the original draft of MGS4's ending, he seduced Meryl the night before her wedding, leaving her to abandon Johnny at the altar. He shits himself in sorrow, Snake, Sunny and Otacon are executed for war crimes, Raiden abandons his family again to become a Roomba, and Big Boss shows up at the very end with the nanomachine-infused corpse of Dirty Duck and Zero's brain in a jar to jauntily dance on The Boss' grave.

 

[Death Metalist]

But why would Solid Snake care if she was his surrogate, thats my issue Solid more than most of the other characters in the series is his own man. The emotion he shows toward Eva and Big Boss strikes as out of place and false when you look at who that character is.
If anything he should've been condemning them for their actions. Again it feels like absentee parents showing up when your thirty going "Sorry I never come around ever/ Sorry I tried to murder you twice can you helps us out of a bind?"

I don't think that he cares as much as he's just mind fucked about it. Well that and he's a dying man at that point who's sided with a person that's fighting the same enemy as he is, Ocelot or rather the patriots.

People keep posting that comic picture about MGS2's Snake vs grump old MGS4 Snake but I think people take for granted that he's a man who got shoved into a mess he never started while also suddenly turning really fucking old but even then he kept fighting the good fight no matter how "fuck this world" he felt haha. I mean, when he first saw BB his reaction was to attack and it was only after BB's CQC hug that he stopped to listen to what the fuck BB has to say about himself for all this mess(which he admitted to it as both he and Zero are terrible people.)

"The world would be better off without snakes..."

 

[SomTervo]

But why would Solid Snake care if she was his surrogate, thats my issue Solid more than most of the other characters in the series is his own man. The emotion he shows toward Eva and Big Boss strikes as out of place and false when you look at who that character is.
If anything he should've been condemning them for their actions. Again it feels like absentee parents showing up when your thirty going "Sorry I never come around ever/ Sorry I tried to murder you twice can you helps us out of a bind?"

Idk, Solid was always more into that than Liquid was, for whatever reason. When Solidus is dressed up in a sneaking suit and firing rockets in MGS2, Solid Snake shouts at him, "Stop impersonating him!" (One of my favourite lines in the series.) I always read that as Solid Snake having some measure of pride about Big Boss.

Eva makes little/no sense, though. He literally has no idea she existed until that scene.

Fuck's sake.

 

[Markoman]

It's a nice idea, but it only matches up based on where they're from. And they're not even from the same place, they're from the same (very large) region.

Skullface was a military executive officer for a clean-up squad, who ultimately went rogue. Vamp is a nanomachines test subject from the 90s. They are totally different, there's no actual story connection between them. Skullface is a microcosm who exists only for MGSV.

I know my theory is far fetched, I just wanted to point out that my post was no troll-post.
Transylvania is not a "small" geographical region, but small in regards to general perception. I assume you are from the US, so how come that you have heard about it?

At the beginnig of mission 46 you hear a voice saying "I won". At this point I knew what Kojima was going for. Skullface and the parasites developed the perfect symbiotic lifeform which was stored in that capsule ELI got from Psycho Mantis. SF lives on as a parasite. Eli then sets this lifeform free. The end of mission 46 surely isn't the end of the epidemic. Even the ravens could be a hint at that.......In order to make Skullface relevant after the plot twist, Kojima needed certain hints in his later games that made this idea plausible.

 

[Roni]

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying...

Fair enough, then.

 

[Golnei]

Solid Snake shouts at him, "Stop impersonating him!" (One of my favourite lines in the series.) I always read that as Solid Snake having some measure of pride about Big Boss.

...Wasn't he also talking about himself? "That man is not Solid Snake", and so on.

Though you could also read it as revulsion for a man identical to his memories of Big Boss taking on his own name, mixed with his fear of becoming like him...

 

[SomTervo]

Spoiler

Having to answer plot questions with vague suppositions and questioning the author's intent is not indicative of a good story.

Hollywood has trained you to expect plot and character resolution.

Countless stories throughout human history - including the majority of the most influential, critically acclaimed, or successful - have not ended by addressing the plot.

The plot is the least important aspect of any story.

 

[SomTervo]

...Wasn't he also talking about himself? "That man is not Solid Snake", and so on.

Though you could also read it as revulsion for a man identical to his memories of Big Boss taking on his own name, mixed with his fear of becoming like him...

I don't think so, unless we're getting this confused between us? Solid Snake shouts directly at Solidus, while pointing a gun at him, 'Stop impersonating him'.

He could well be feeling that, that, though. You may be right. He seems more insulted/offended, though? Like he revered Big Boss and this joker is mimicking him, so he's angry when he says 'Stop impersonating him!'

 

[Markoman]

Holywood has trained you to expect plot and character resolution.

Countless stories throughout human history - including the majority of the most influential, critically acclaimed, or successful - have not ended by addressing the plot.

The plot is the least important aspect of any story.

I absolutely agree! The best thing a story can go for is to inspire the reader/viewer.

 

[Golnei]

I don't think so, unless we're getting this confused between us? Solid Snake shouts directly at Solidus, while pointing a gun at him, 'Stop impersonating him'.

He could well be feeling that, that, though. You may be right. He seems more insulted/offended, though? Like he revered Big Boss and this joker is mimicking him, so he's angry when he says 'Stop impersonating him!'

I misquoted it (it's actually NO! That is NOT Solid Snake!), but it's from earlier in the same scene. Looking at it again, Solidus calls him Snake, and they have their whole 'brother' exchange directly before the 'stop impersonating him' line; so it is more likely that it's referring to Big Boss.

As for the motivations behind the actual line, either seem valid enough - divining deeper meanings from a 2001 David Hayter line read is probably a lost cause regardless.

 

[Johndoey]

Idk, Solid was always more into that than Liquid was, for whatever reason. When Solidus is dressed up in a sneaking suit and firing rockets in MGS2, Solid Snake shouts at him, "Stop impersonating him!" (One of my favourite lines in the series.) I always read that as Solid Snake having some measure of pride about Big Boss.

Eva makes little/no sense, though. He literally has no idea she existed until that scene.

Fuck's sake.

I understand the respect he has for Big Boss, but when 4 rolls around and we have the hug an' shit it felt weird but I understand that scene, the Eva shit just makes no sense.

 

[SomTervo]

I understand the respect he has for Big Boss, but when 4 rolls around and we have the hug an' shit it felt weird but I understand that scene, the Eva shit just makes no sense.

Agreed. I think the Big Boss MGS4 hug was OK because Big Boss himself instigates it, and he's clearly making a point that he's on Solid Snake's side. Still weird. And Solid Snake definitely must have mixed feelings about the guy - tried to attack him on sight.

I misquoted it (it's actually NO! That is NOT Solid Snake!), but it's from earlier in the same scene. Looking at it again, Solidus calls him Snake, and they have their whole 'brother' exchange directly before the 'stop impersonating him' line; so it is more likely that it's referring to Big Boss.

As for the motivations behind the actual line, either seem valid enough - divining deeper meanings from a 2001 David Hayter line read is probably a lost cause regardless.

Word. I think the context lends itself to BB, but it's still fucking moot isn't it. In this shitshow of a lore/canon.

 

[Xiraiya]

That reminds me that Solidus says "Don't tell me you've forgotten me?" to Snake, which made me do a doubletake when I watched MGS2 right before V came out.

It hasn't specifically been contradicted yet, so ninja baby Grey Fox will be canon forever, unfortunately.

I'm going to ignore it because nothing will ever validate it and Kojima was already iffy on PO's canon status as it was.

The art we got of Frank Jaeger from the old games is a man who wore regular Military BDU, he was a highly skilled soldier, cool, calm and collected, Solid Snake admired him and they became best friends, that's the story, everything we have on him before he became a Ninja is exactly that story. Did crazy emotionless edgy Ninja guy null become a regular soldier and THEN a Cyborg Ninja? No that sounds dumb.

The concept of Null is ridiculous and hurts a great character, there are no actual contradictions but I feel like it's a contradiction of ideology behind Frank's story.

Which is enough for me to continue ignoring Portable Ops overall.

 

[Erigu]

No that was from early Peace Walker concept art, not MGSV.

No, it's a rough sketch of Quiet for Metal Gear Solid V The Phantom Pain. She just happens to look a bit like Paz, there.

 

[The Silver]

Kojima talked about that "impersonating" line before and he said it was referring to Solidus purposely making himself look more like Big Boss.

 

[Xiraiya]

Did anyone ever notice how if you never edit your Emblem, Motherbase has proper Diamond Dog logos on all the flags and stuff? But if you do edit it AND save it (even if you change nothing) It's forever stuck with your custom emblem (If you change nothing the Flags and stuff change to the boring DD emblem thing on your shoulder and some of the proper Diamond Dog logos are pretty much gone forever, I thought that was interesting.

No, it's a rough sketch of Quiet for Metal Gear Solid V The Phantom Pain. She just happens to look a bit like Paz, there.

Jesus you're right, I remember seeing the full version of that too, my memory is garbage at times.
It actually just makes her look like teen Sniper Wolf.

 

[sonicmj1]

I misquoted it (it's actually NO! That is NOT Solid Snake!), but it's from earlier in the same scene. Looking at it again, Solidus calls him Snake, and they have their whole 'brother' exchange directly before the 'stop impersonating him' line; so it is more likely that it's referring to Big Boss.

As for the motivations behind the actual line, either seem valid enough - divining deeper meanings from a 2001 David Hayter line read is probably a lost cause regardless.

Their whole "brother" exchange has "Plisskin" saying, "Save it - you're no brother of mine," denying any relationship between them.

At that point in the story, Raiden doesn't know his real identity, and considers Solid Snake a terrorist responsible for the Tanker incident. At the start of the scene, Solidus calls himself "Solid Snake". The real Solid Snake doesn't want to tell Raiden the truth about himself yet, but he doesn't like Solidus taking his identity, so he uses the third-person: "Stop impersonating him".

Considering Solidus introduces himself as "the boss to surpass Big Boss," interpreting Solid's line to refer to Big Boss is absurd.

 

[Johndoey]

Their whole "brother" exchange has "Plisskin" saying, "Save it - you're no brother of mine," denying any relationship between them.

At that point in the story, Raiden doesn't know his real identity, and considers Solid Snake a terrorist responsible for the Tanker incident. At the start of the scene, Solidus calls himself "Solid Snake". The real Solid Snake doesn't want to tell Raiden the truth about himself yet, but he doesn't like Solidus taking his identity, so he uses the third-person: "Stop impersonating him".

Considering Solidus introduces himself as "the boss to surpass Big Boss," interpreting Solid's line to refer to Big Boss is absurd.

Solidus should have been referred to as Bigger Boss.

 

[Golnei]

Kojima talked about that "impersonating" line before and he said it was referring to Solidus purposely making himself look more like Big Boss.

Was this in the "but soon I realised Mr. Kojima was serious" documentary?

I'm going to ignore it because nothing will ever validate it and Kojima was already iffy on PO's canon status as it was.

The art we got of Frank Jaeger from the old games is a man who wore regular Military BDU, he was a highly skilled soldier, cool, calm and collected, Solid Snake admired him and they became best friends, that's the story, everything we have on him before he became a Ninja is exactly that story. Did crazy emotionless edgy Ninja guy null become a regular soldier and THEN a Cyborg Ninja? No that sounds dumb.

The concept of Null is ridiculous and hurts a great character, there are no actual contradictions but I feel like it's a contradiction of ideology behind Frank's story.

Which is enough for me to continue ignoring Portable Ops overall.

It's a terrible interpretation of the character, but I view it as more of a blemish on Portable Ops' otherwise solid-but-unexceptional plot/characters rather than a reason to dismiss it entirely. If they were to pull a body-double twist for anyone in the series, it should have been Null.

Solidus should have been referred to as Bigger Boss.

 

[Markoman]

Now to to something completely different: Concerning Emmerich, did anyone get the same "Lost"-vibes from him as I did . At first I thought he is a typical goofy type of Kojima characters for comedic relief.
But now, I'm not so sure anymore. He reminds me of Benjamin Linus in Lost:
- gets captured
- appeals 100% weak and innocent first
- gets tortured (and the gamer/viewer) feels bad about it >sympathizes with him
- lies a lot
- has done someting terrible >sympathy is gone

...you get the point.

Even after listening to the last tape (strangelove locked-up) I'm absolutely not sure what to make of him. It was the same B. Linus. The player's perception is constantly tricked into some limbo between black and white-thinking the same way it was done in Lost.

 

[PokéKong]

All Snakes have a fuzzy line between being their own character with their own personal history and motivations and feelings, and just being the player controlled avatar. As the controlled character switches so much throughout the series, this can get quite awkward. As MGS4 was made to be a big send off to everything in the series, sense was often put aside for fanservice. It makes no sense for Solid to be standing there saluting the grave, but you the player left off MGS3 doing just that and you pick it back up in 4. Big Mama too was a another thing 100% just for you, of course you're gonna have feelings about this meetup, so it should be expressed in some way through your avatar, Solid's own logic aside.

This is why Solid Snake is never a stronger character than he was through the entire latter half of MGS2, he's free from the restraints of being a videogame protagonist and gets to be a purified symbol of himself, telling Raiden all about his thoughts on how to live and personal views that would be too strong to force upon a more passive player character.

Oh that reminds me, I guess it turns out that dog tag Raiden was carrying around was Venom Snake's all along, same name and birthday and everything.

But that brings us all back to MGSV, and how this contrast between avatar and character was brought to an unfortunate extreme. Venom is LITERALLY an avatar in every way with Snake's face and name slapped on. And then you can only catch a brief peek at this legendary cool guy character Big Boss, not a single bit diluted by being thrown into silly aimless open world gameplay. I admire and resent it all so much.

 

[Xiraiya]

Solidus should have been referred to as Bigger Boss.

He would soon ascend to the final form, Diamond Boss.

 

[Golnei]

sense was often put aside for fanservice

Viewed like that, MGS4 nominally having a theme of SENSE makes so much more...sense. It was a deliberate exercise in how internally inconsistent, self-indulgent and generally incoherent a work of fiction could be, while still evoking a strong emotional response from its audience, due largely in part to external context. MGS4 actually is a better sequel to 2 than most realise - it is the emotional manipulation and manufactured context of the S3 plan.

 

[Markoman]

All Snakes have a fuzzy line between being their own character with their own personal history and motivations and feelings, and just being the player controlled avatar. As the controlled character switches so much throughout the series, this can get quite awkward. As MGS4 was made to be a big send off to everything in the series, sense was often put aside for fanservice. It makes no sense for Solid to be standing there saluting the grave, but you the player left off MGS3 doing just that and you pick it back up in 4. Big Mama too was a another thing 100% just for you, of course you're gonna have feelings about this meetup, so it should be expressed in some way through your avatar, Solid's own logic aside.

This is why Solid Snake is never a stronger character than he was through the entire latter half of MGS2, he's free from the restraints of being a videogame protagonist and gets to be a purified symbol of himself, telling Raiden all about his thoughts on how to live and personal views that would be too strong to force upon a more passive player character.

Oh that reminds me, I guess it turns out that dog tag Raiden was carrying around was Venom Snake's all along, same name and birthday and everything.

But that brings us all back to MGSV, and how this contrast between avatar and character was brought to an unfortunate extreme. Venom is LITERALLY an avatar in every way with Snake's face and name slapped on. And then you can only catch a brief peek at this legendary cool guy character Big Boss, not a single bit diluted by being thrown into silly aimless open world gameplay. I admire and resent it all so much.

Yes, but I do think that this whole Avatar thing was intended to fuck with the fans of the series.

Bolded part: Crossing the 200hour mark soon - still my personal GOTY, but I'll have to agree.
The way it is -a barebone copy of Far Cry 3- the open world was a mistake, but it could have easily worked:

- enemy reinforcements by choppers or trucks
- tank and troup transport patrols
- vehicle AI that is able to hunt the player wherever he is

basically the enemy being able to track the player down when sighted.

This aspect feels even more unfinished than the story.And there are clues in the game that show you how it was intended to be.

 

[Berserker976]

Their whole "brother" exchange has "Plisskin" saying, "Save it - you're no brother of mine," denying any relationship between them.

At that point in the story, Raiden doesn't know his real identity, and considers Solid Snake a terrorist responsible for the Tanker incident. At the start of the scene, Solidus calls himself "Solid Snake". The real Solid Snake doesn't want to tell Raiden the truth about himself yet, but he doesn't like Solidus taking his identity, so he uses the third-person: "Stop impersonating him".

Considering Solidus introduces himself as "the boss to surpass Big Boss," interpreting Solid's line to refer to Big Boss is absurd.

Yeah.... I'm surprised this is even a thing. Solidus is literally impersonating Solid Snake. He calls himself Solid Snake in that very same cutscene. Why do people think Solid Snake was talking about Solidus impersonating Big Boss?

 

[Ashura_MX]

I absolutely agree! The best thing a story can go for is to inspire the reader/viewer.

Fuck that noise, I want entertainment, not imspiration from the mind of another human being as flawed as the next guy (me or litetally the next guy)

 

[swearing-circle]

Yeah.... I'm surprised this is even a thing. Solidus is literally impersonating Solid Snake. He calls himself Solid Snake in that very same cutscene. Why do people think Solid Snake was talking about Solidus impersonating Big Boss?

Yeah, I second this.

 

[Golnei]

Yeah.... I'm surprised this is even a thing. Solidus is literally impersonating Solid Snake. He calls himself Solid Snake in that very same cutscene. Why do people think Solid Snake was talking about Solidus impersonating Big Boss?

Yeah, I second this.

That was my initial reaction as well, but the whole conversation where Solidus refers to him as 'Snake' and 'brother', as well as Raiden calling him 'Snake'; would seem to suggest the pretense of both Solid and Solidus' disguises had pretty much collapsed at that point - 'stop impersonating him' in regards to Solidus taking on the name of Solid would have worked if it came directly after 'that is not Solid Snake', with the intervening dialogue, it makes just as much sense to refer to setting himself up as another Big Boss.

 

[Markoman]

Fuck that noise, I want entertainment, not imspiration from the mind of another human being as flawed as the next guy (me or litetally the next guy)

Fair enough and you brought up an important point concerning the discussion about what makes a story "good". For some it's simply entertainment (joy, sadness, humor,...) while others love things that make them think.

 

[GreyOcelot]

Yeah.... I'm surprised this is even a thing. Solidus is literally impersonating Solid Snake. He calls himself Solid Snake in that very same cutscene. Why do people think Solid Snake was talking about Solidus impersonating Big Boss?

Yeah, i didn't even know this was a point of contention. I don't think it's debatable really. He's clearly referring to solidus trying to present himself as solid snake

 

[usp84]

Now to to something completely different: Concerning Emmerich, did anyone get the same "Lost"-vibes from him as I did . At first I thought he is a typical goofy type of Kojima characters for comedic relief.
But now, I'm not so sure anymore. He reminds me of Benjamin Linus in Lost:
- gets captured
- appeals 100% weak and innocent first
- gets tortured (and the gamer/viewer) feels bad about it >sympathizes with him
- lies a lot
- has done someting terrible >sympathy is gone

...you get the point.

Even after listening to the last tape (strangelove locked-up) I'm absolutely not sure what to make of him. It was the same B. Linus. The player's perception is constantly tricked into some limbo between black and white-thinking the same way it was done in Lost.

Up until the end i thought he was innocent actually.It never crossed my mind that he could do the things he did.Maybe because i thought he was just another otacon

 

[heringer]

I have a big urge of doing a replay of all the games, especially MGS2 and MGS4.

I'll probably borrow a PS3 and replay MGS4.

I agree with the person saying MGS4 laid sense aside in favor of emotional impact. It worked for me. Even though the plot is dumb, all those FEELINGS man. That's why I loved that game, don't care if it's dumb.

Also, it's funny how I've come to appreciate MGS2's plot so much more after playing all the games. Honestly, it's probably the best plot in the series. I remember hating it the first time I played.

 

[Xiraiya]

MGS2 is great but the whole digital information thing just wasn't my sort of twist, I enjoyed it but it was kind of a "Well that's a big deal" thought I had when it was revealed, MGS3 however left a big impact on me once I had finished it. I enjoy Kojima's insanity when it's totally unleashed but I enjoy an emotional straightforward action movie MGS plot far more.

Up until the end i thought he was innocent actually.It never crossed my mind that he could do the things he did.Maybe because i thought he was just another otacon

I thought Huey being a dodgy piece of shit was incredibly heavy-handed, I've been watching an LP of MGSV where one of the people are convinced he's an okay guy.
Huey WAS an okay guy, I don't necessarily think he planned Motherbase to be attacked 9 years ago, but he is an opportunist and a survivor who is also a coward, so he can never be trusted because he can and WILL avoid all responsibility of guilt by making everyone but himself responsible for the way he is or anything that happens to him.

You know that idiot died blaming his wife and kids for making him need to commit suicide.

 

[Nintendoga]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPZv40MWAbk

It's pretty clear in that "Stop impersonating him!" scene Snake was referring to Big Boss.

 

[Iceternal]

FFS we don't even know what happens to Diamong Dogs, they're like the biggest private army in the world and they get no closure ...

What's the point of making Mother Base and your ranks grow if it serves no gameplay or story purpose ?

I thought DD would eventually turn into Outer Heaven ...

 

[KingHenrik30]

Yes, but I do think that this whole Avatar thing was intended to fuck with the fans of the series.

Bolded part: Crossing the 200hour mark soon - still my personal GOTY, but I'll have to agree.
The way it is -a barebone copy of Far Cry 3- the open world was a mistake, but it could have easily worked:

- enemy reinforcements by choppers or trucks
- tank and troup transport patrols
- vehicle AI that is able to hunt the player wherever he is

basically the enemy being able to track the player down when sighted.

This aspect feels even more unfinished than the story.And there are clues in the game that show you how it was intended to be.

Just to add to this, how about more bases to explore, like legit bases with vast interiors

 

[Xiraiya]

FFS we don't even know what happens to Diamong Dogs, they're like the biggest private army in the world and they get no closure ...

What's the point of making Mother Base and your ranks grow if it serves no gameplay or story purpose ?

I thought DD would eventually turn into Outer Heaven ...

It does.

The game literally starts and ends with "Just another day in Outer Heaven"

 

[SJRB]

Just to add to this, how about more bases to explore, like legit bases with vast interiors

I just spent like an hour or two exploring the Africa map, just looking around the edges of the map, checking canyons, waterfalls if there are caves behind it. Anything, really.

But there's nothing. Fucking nothing. No cool surprises or easter eggs, no hidden secrets, nothing that makes exploring rewarding in any way, aside from the goddamn medical plants.

This game gets compared to Far Cry 3/4 a lot and I can absolutely see that, but whoever at Kojima Productions took the cliffnotes when playing Far Cry completely missed the point of how to reward a player for exploring. In Far Cry, there's always something to find. No matter where you go, there's always some hidden cave or some cool ruin or some nice little platforming segment.

MGSV's maps undoubtedly costed tremendous effort, but it was a complete waste of everybody's time [both devs and players alike].


I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't include random encounters. You know, just random patrols. soldiers, vehicles or even a helicopter suddenly flying over.. ANYTHING to keep traversal interesting and engaging and make actually moving through this huge map worth my time.

 

[heringer]

FFS we don't even know what happens to Diamong Dogs, they're like the biggest private army in the world and they get no closure ...

What's the point of making Mother Base and your ranks grow if it serves no gameplay or story purpose ?

I thought DD would eventually turn into Outer Heaven ...

There's both gameplay and story purpose. Growing motherbase gives you new weapons and itens, it's a metagame.

And DD does turn into Outer Heaven.

 

[80s Bad Guy]

People keep saying Kojima failed at his themes for MGSV and yet I've been thinking about them a lot the past few days. Execution aside, there's a lot of great stuff here. For me personally it works better than the heavy-handed approach MGS4 took.

Also, my favorite thing is having the player create his own avatar only for the reveal to be 30-50 hours later at the very end of the game. We thought it was for MGO, but no, we actually did create our own character, who immediately got plastic surgery. Amazing.

 

[Xiraiya]

MGSV's maps undoubtedly costed tremendous effort, but it was a complete waste of everybody's time [both devs and players alike].
I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't include random encounters. You know, just random patrols [soldiers / vehicles]. ANYTHING to keep traversal interesting and engaging.

I've dropped into free roam only to immediately trigger an alert because a truck was going by the LZ and saw the chopper landing, I've had moments in Africa where I had to jump on the minigun when trying to land because an enemy chopper was targeting Pequod.

So it does happen.

As someone with a love of Open world RPGs, MGSV's open world just feels nice to explore, could there have been more? Sure, but I don't feel like they should regret doing this because it's still been such an immersive adventure traveling about even when there really isn't much to it, I think that's pretty impressive.

Also I think it took less time than one would think, the very earliest leak of MGSV before it was even announced showed Venom in Afghanistan in some familiar areas, the first "preview" not long after with the Fox engine showed off Africa, they had already been at this awhile and had both of those Maps midway to completion before we knew anything about what they were like, which just adds to the confusion I have about MGSV being completed so far ahead of time and yet still having clear traces of things that couldn't be quite done in time or finished and so on.

 

[Markoman]

I just spent like an hour or two exploring the Africa map, just looking around the edges of the map, checking canyons, waterfalls if there are caves behind it. Anything, really.

But there's nothing. Fucking nothing. No cool surprises or easter eggs, no hidden secrets, nothing that makes exploring rewarding in any way, aside from the goddamn medical plants.

This game gets compared to Far Cry 3/4 a lot and I can absolutely see that, but whoever at Kojima Productions took the cliffnotes when playing Far Cry completely missed the point of how to reward a player for exploring. In Far Cry, there's always something to find. No matter where you go, there's always some hidden cave or some cool ruin or some nice little platforming segment.

MGSV's maps undoubtedly costed tremendous effort, but it was a complete waste of everybody's time [both devs and players alike].


I can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't include random encounters. You know, just random patrols. soldiers, vehicles or even a helicopter suddenly flying over.. ANYTHING to keep traversal interesting and engaging and make actually moving through this huge map worth my time.

I'm far from being a game-designer or programmer, so I don't know how much effort has to be put in this. I assume not that much,,,,this is really beyond me.
A simple tank patrol or a random platoon of 6 soldiers here and there would have done wonders.

But to be fair, can't stand open worlds like Far Cry 3+4 anymore. A middle ground between the two (Emptiness and Amusement park) seems ideal for me.

 

[RK9039]

People keep saying Kojima failed at his themes for MGSV and yet I've been thinking about them a lot the past few days. Execution aside, there's a lot of great stuff here. For me personally it works better than the heavy-handed approach MGS4 took.

Also, my favorite thing is having the player create his own avatar only for the reveal to be 30-50 hours later at the very end of the game. We thought it was for MGO, but no, we actually did create our own character, who immediately got plastic surgery. Amazing.

You might have thought it was for MGO, and technically it is you first character, but most people knew that we weren't playing as Big Boss even before the game came out. It was so obvious and even more so during the prologue.

And regarding themes I didn't really pay any attention to them, it never stood out like previous games. In fact I'm not really sure what the themes are in MGSV, probably something to do with development budget and time constraints because that's all I was thinking about after "finishing" the game.

 

[Xiraiya]

People keep saying Kojima failed at his themes for MGSV and yet I've been thinking about them a lot the past few days. Execution aside, there's a lot of great stuff here. For me personally it works better than the heavy-handed approach MGS4 took.
Also, my favorite thing is having the player create his own avatar only for the reveal to be 30-50 hours later at the very end of the game. We thought it was for MGO, but no, we actually did create our own character, who immediately got plastic surgery. Amazing.

I agree about 4 being heavy-handed, but V has the opposite problem of being so subtle you're not even sure if a thing is intentional or the game is just breaking on you/left unfinished. However things like Skullface's chopper having a number relating specically to an Anti-psychotic drug while his pilot wears a Diamond Dogs helmet with no one in-game ever drawing attention to it sort of convinces me that Kojima hasn't really totally messed all this up (Atleast not in the way that is the easiest to explain) and there's a lot of shit going on that isn't being verbally communicated.

Also I thought people were crazy for assuming the avatar was for MGO only, why would that be crammed in with no purpose to the story? If it was really only an MGO thing it'd just be in the main menu, not mid opening cutscene, so I never forgot that it was going to come back in a probably significant way. The trailers made me pretty confident we weren't Big Boss long before the game was out anyway, so I was use to the idea of being an MSF soldier molded into Big Boss.

 

[Roni]

I agree about 4 being heavy-handed, but V has the opposite problem of being so subtle you're not even sure if a thing is intentional or the game is just breaking on you/left unfinished.

Haha, I guess that's fair.

 

[Serpens007]

For some reason MGSV is tricking everyone into thinking there was a plot hole that was never there.

2+2=5

 

[Markoman]

And regarding themes I didn't really pay any attention to them, it never stood out like previous games. In fact I'm not really sure what the themes are in MGSV, probably something to do with development budget and time constraints because that's all I was thinking about after "finishing" the game.

Tier 1 themes: Language-Culture, Identity, Revenge, once again "memes"
Tier 2 themes: Torture, War-Economy, Child-Soldiers, Trust/Faith

Science Fiction theme: a parasitic, microscopic life form that takes over human beings which is capable of enhancing their abilities and can also be use as the ultimate weapon of mass destruction. (I assume Kojima was inspired by Frank Schätzing's "The Swarm"