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[Golnei]

I don't think that unless you live in Japan, you will be able to play this pachinko game.

But we'll still be able to look on in horror at the flaming wreckage from afar.

 

[GeeTeeCee]

I just finished the game today. Hearing all the negative reactions before completing the game (but without knowing the nature of the spoilers), I expected the ending to be the biggest letdown I would ever experience.

I'm actually fine with the ending. It most definitely is not perfect, far from it, but I got what I wanted out of the game.

My biggest complaint is that they should never have had Miller's "What about him?" line from Mission 46 happen in one of the very first trailers for TPP. I'd been predicting that you weren't actually Big Boss from the moment I first saw that.

 

[GodzillaDB]

How did V lose his eye? Did he even lose it? They the fucking idiots really plop his eye off for the sake of authenticity?

It's possible the overseers at Cyprus intentionally rendered the Medic visually impaired through the use of chemical poisoning to further solidify the resemblance. However, I won't expect anything other than it being the result of convenience from an artistic standpoint and, sadly, a missed opportunity for an extra layer that could've painted both Major Zero or Big Boss as callous figures willing to throw out societal ethics in pursuit of their ideology.

Also people never point this out, but Big Boss and Venom BOTH have two different kinds of shrapnel in the trailers, well actually they do but the color differences is what I never see mentioned. "Venom" with the mullet (Big Boss) on the Motorbike has White Shrapnel in a different position above his eye, I thought that stuff was super weird.

Actually, folk cited the visual difference between the Venom Snake and "Big Boss" shrapnel upon the GDC 2013 reveal. Several theorist pinpointed the motorcycle clip as potential evidence of a military decoy being artificially mangled to reflect the real deal. As stated in my comment above, I believe it was an overlooked opportunity to demonize either Zero or Big Boss in how far they were willing to turn fellow comrades into pawns. Also, I don't get where you're claiming white shrapnel exist when every screen cap I've seen has the same charcoal or metallic hue. Are you referencing the x-ray promo material perhaps?

The timeline fits with the tweet after all. But while GZ was controversial, does it hit on any kind of taboo?

Tape 4? Maybe, but that was pretty much ripped straight from the Abu Grahib headlines. In fact, it was toned down from the reality. Depicting the torture of a kid? Not sure anyone was all that up in arms about that, which was odd. Again, nothing that wasn’t all over the headlines a few years ago. Snuke? Yeah, that could be it too, but a lot of people didn’t think he handled it at all well and I don’t see him being ostracised from the industry because of it.

What about this English Language thing in TPP? Yeah, it absolutely doesn’t seem like a taboo on the surface (although I can understand why someone outside the culture would think it was), but if he had mishandled it as he mentioned in his tweet, couldn’t it have had the potential to come across as quite racist (not sure if that's the word)?

Because people had a bad time with the game and feel a bit betrayed, I honestly think some people aren’t giving it quite enough credit.

Either that or acknowledging the existence of child soldiers despite heroically rescuing them, or taking a gentle stance on western imperialism that is about as controversial as your average textbook dryly talking about the Falkland Islands.

Although Phantom Pain accumulates a wealth of sensitive topics, it's truly unfortunate that Kojima decided to merely flirt with them over an unabashed depiction of the true consequences of war. Even its examination of linguistic imperialism doesn't possess any sort of biting power, particularly from its fictitious framework. I'm still surprised nothing ever amounted from the presence of child soldiers beyond the obvious perspective of them being a casualty. It's an issue that hasn't been explored too often within the interactive medium. War Witch would've been a great cinematic reference to spearhead the subject, but the designer choose to let the possibilities pass by like projected deadlines. It speaks volumes that a ninety minute prologue stirred more controversy, albeit misguided, than its 150+ hour counterpart in the long run.

I got so many questions, I don't even know where to start. Wolbachia, metal archaea, emmerich, phantom snake...

If you have any questions, feel free to ask away!

Which Snake do you guys think is the best soldier? Big Boss is clearly the best leader, but in terms of accomplishments, can Venom hold a candle to BB and Solid Snake?

I believe it's unquestionable that Solid Snake was the superior soldier on the battlefield given his conquests over numerous iterations of Metal Gear and terrorist units comprised of sociopaths, with commanders that were related "genetically," while dedicating his life to dismantling MG-tech plots. On a morale ground, Venom Snake might've been the second or third accomplished (depending on whether you'd want to feature Raiden) given his apathy to enemy combatants, comradery, and the possible notion that his mercenary work lead to nuclear disarmament. Everyone else faults from passing deep into moral threshold of lawlessness.

Solid Snake > (Raiden) > Venom Snake > Big Boss > Solidus Snake > Liquid Snake

General question to the thread favourite Boss fight in MGS?

The End might serve as the highest point of game design for the series in my opinion. I had never before seen a boss battle stretch over three separate areas with ample freedom to tackle the situation. I think the thermal googles negates the presumed "teleportation" A.I. on the chance anyone might consider it unbalanced. In fact, I believe it's shameful that Phantom Pain didn't expand upon the breath of this design given the open-world where the boss encounters could've been randomized and reactionary to the amount of ruckus the player stirred on the front lines over "lazy" pacifism.

You shouldn't be saying "dude is just a medic", you should be saying "dude is this badass AND he is a medic to boot??".

And before MGS6 we will have MGS5 man. Believe.

It isn't that Venom Snake is a less human being, the issue arises from his existence being arguably incidental to the overarching narrative. Characters that should've expressed even an utterance fail to do so as an obvious result of his haphazard addition to the canon. His medical expertise doesn't resurface outside of the Ground Zeroes finale which I think was another missed chance to nod at the twist if, for instance, his survival skills kicked in subconsciously during a mandatory cutscene. As it presently stands, the biggest indicator to his true identity was tied exclusively to an optional side-quest (assuming the pre-release trailers and avatar creation didn't smack anyone in the face).

 

[ginger ninja]

If you have any questions, feel free to ask away!

I was thinking about reading through the three threads since it feels like most people here are already done making jokes and I missed out on the fun :/

I feel the story started going off rails around episode 15-20. It's still hard to make sense of all the details, like if skullface was working for CIA what was he doing in Afghanistan with the Russians and wtf was metal archea. What was the deal with emmerich. I am just saying even with how cringeworthy mgs4 got, it was atleast clear for fans to understand.

Then things went really bad in chapter 2, it just felt so empty and broken. And all the time you are left with this feeling what it could have been.

But finally, the ending. As much as it stung, it also feels poetic in a way. Right after the ending, I considered if it was metacommentary by Kojima about legends, how they are rarely what they seem to be. How big boss is more than a man, a symbol that mercenaries will follow regardless of the man behind the mask. It's been three days and I keep thinking back to it, it really is the phantom pain that will never go away.

 

[Makeda]

I finally got through with the game and after hearing about the cuts via the Kotaku post and comments here prior to finishing, I had some serious worries about the games ending feeling rather lackluster and full of holes.

I would have loved to been able to play that epic Ep 51 battle with Eli but that disappointment aside, the game did a decent enough job of clearing up some of the plot hole/black spots I had regarding Big Boss from Peace Walker good guy to the Zanzibar land depiction in MG2.

I haven't hunted down anything yet and my memory of MGS4 is fuzzy but do we ever find out officially how Big Boss & Solid die?
Just wondered as TPP makes a big point to inform you that sometime after MGS4 Big Boss dies

 

[beastlove]

Having just finished the game I am starting to have some sympathy for the management at Komani. I don’t think anyone could disagree that Kojima is a genius but this game has all the signs of a guy who was out of control. I would bet MGS5 was way over budget and way behind schedule. I also imagine that Kojima wanted to add more unique content to chapter 2 and have a complete chapter 3. Obviously this would have resulted in a higher budget and another year or two in development. At some point Komani would have wanted to get something out to market and get some money back. I imagine most companies (EA, Ubisoft) would have set the entire game in Afghanistan, bulked out the story in chapter 1 and then used the ideas for chapter 2 & Africa for next year’s sequel. In some ways I think that would have improved the game particularly if they fleshed out some of the characters who seemed one dimensional to say the least.

For me the mechanics of the game are amazing but everything else is shit. The story is the weakest of all the Metal Gear games and the world is very dull (outside of the villages). I have played all the Metal Gear games and I would say this is probably the worst one of the series but arguably one of the best games of the year… shame it just wasn’t a metal gear game. It is a sad way to end my favourite series.

 

[ginger ninja]

So, is the consensus then that venom dies during outer heaven incident and big boss during zanzibarland(minus the whole mgs 4 stupidity).

 

[GreyOcelot]

So, is the consensus then that venom dies during outer heaven incident and big boss during zanzibarland(minus the whole mgs 4 stupidity).

that's explicitly stated in this game

 

[Oldest Snake]

Folks on Reddit are still data mining the game, latest report suggests up to 10 original missions removed from the final game.

Relevant Info:

Now, I don't want to say that these missions are part from Chapter 3, but I found curious how in Chapter 2 we had 12 replay missions (most of them in AFGH) and now we have 10 unaccounted 10 replay missions (most of them in MAFR). Those 10 with the 8 completly missing missions and the FLYK one would give un a total of 19. Very close to Chapter 2, isn't it?

TL;DR: I checked as much code as I could and found 10 "blocked" replay missions, 8 which seem to be a mistake and 8 which are completly missing. Also found demo missions and mother base stuff.

Details in link if you're interested. Related?

 

[ginger ninja]

that's explicitly stated in this game

When/where. Big boss is working on outer heaven but I am talking about which boss dies when.

 

[Houndi101]

When/where

the ending timeline crawl

 

[GodzillaDB]

It's still hard to make sense of all the details, like if skullface was working for CIA what was he doing in Afghanistan with the Russians and wtf was metal archea. What was the deal with emmerich. I am just saying even with how cringeworthy mgs4 got, it was atleast clear for fans to understand.

01) Skull Face had no affiliation with the CIA throughout the events of the MGSV rigmarole as he went completely rogue from the organization and Ciper/The Patriots by extension. He expropriated the XOF unit from the American government in his quest for revenge against his own commander, Major Zero. It was the sudden attack of the MSF Mother Base that forced the head of Cipher to act hastily in opposition to his own organized body in a desperate attempt to make amends with his former ally, Big Boss, following their split in regard to his unauthorized cloning of the renowned soldier in the early 1970s and feeling responsible for Skull Face's dissension under his watch. Prior to serving as a secret operative in the United States, Skull Face had been a notable assassin for the Soviet Union in the early portion of the Cold War. He ultimately choose to defect to the West after successfully assassinating the Russian Premier, Joseph Stalin, as part of his transition to the British SAS where he met Major Zero for the first time. I don't believe his presence in Afghanistan has ever been explicitly identified outside of the power plant being the hideout for the development of Sahelanthropus and I wouldn't suppose it would be a stretch to imagine him exploiting what's left of his Soviet connections as part of the Soviet-Afghan War.

02) Metallic archaea is a fictional microorganism that was created by Code Talker during the Cold War. The biologist was employed by the American government as part of extensive uranium mining within the Navajo Nation upon the conclusion on World War II. Exposure to the radioactive deposits lead to fatal work conditions and Code Talker sought to find something to negate the health risks of contamination. He discovers a microbe that successfully "consumes" the chemical through oxidation/corrosion, but no one was willing to offer funds to explore its potential in the work place. Unfortunately, Skull Face offered to funnel funds from Cipher to allow Code Talker to continue his research on the stipulation that he weaponize the bacteria or he'd wipe out the remainder of the Navajo populace.

03) Huey Emmerich basically became a traitor in his pursuit for nuclear proliferation which facilitated his desire to construct weapons of mass destruction. He had a morale downfall after the events of Peace Walker by facilitating the Trojan Horse assault from XOF since he was responsible for leading the U.N. inspection when he never officially sent out the request in the first place. Presumably the mechanical engineer became "disillusioned" over MSF's lack of nuclear development once Dr. Strangelove left Mother Base to construct the Patriot A.I. and Metal Gear ZEKE had been tucked away at the ocean floor. He negotiated his survival in return for being assigned to construct ST-84 Metal Gear under observation of Skull Face and XOF. Strangelove was later recruited for the project, but they had a significant falling out once Huey proposed using their own child, Hal/"Otacon," as the test pilot for the bipedal mech. She vehemently rejected the thought and immediately sent her son into hiding back in the States. As fate would have it, Strangelove accidentally locks herself inside the Mammal Pod sometime after it had been acquired. Huey willingly leaves her to suffocate inside the device in retaliation for not getting his way and seizes the opportunity to take full authority of the Metal Gear's construction. He maintains his loyalty to his machines since he was the sole reason for handing Big Boss a nuclear without his request and the scientist continues to build Gear tech without being explicitly requested after being captured by Venom Snake/Diamond Dogs. Additionally, Huey was responsible for parasite mutation that occurred later on Mother Base as he had been planning to sell the organisms to Cipher under the likelihood the mercenaries wouldn't utilize such a weapon even if it was at their disposal.

05) Yes, Punished "Venom" Snake was still posing as the legendary soldier in the final moments of the Outer Heaven Uprising. Big Boss left his post as the commanding officer of FOXHOUND shortly afterward to fulfill his plans for a nation of soldiers which comes to fruition in the Zanzibar Land Disturbance.

I haven't hunted down anything yet and my memory of MGS4 is fuzzy but do we ever find out officially how Big Boss & Solid die?
Just wondered as TPP makes a big point to inform you that sometime after MGS4 Big Boss dies

Big Boss visibly dies on-screen in the final sequence of MGS4: Guns of the Patriots as a consequence of a new strain of FOXDIE injected within Solid Snake. It had been programmed to assassinate him by Cipher/The Patriots on the chance he re-awoke from his second coma after being defeated in Zanzibar Land. It's believed Solid Snake dies not too long after Liquid's Insurrection as a result of the accelerated aging side-effect from the cloning process. His life expectancy was projected between six months to a year at various points, but we're in a strange state of ambiguity at the moment over his fate. The final timeline crawl of Phantom Pain doesn't acknowledge his inevitable death at the end so it's possible a loop-hole in a future installment could choose to deliver a deus ex machina. However, Hideo Kojima claimed works outside of his directorial efforts are in a state of semi-canon wherein his titles take precedent in the event of a continuity contradiction, but there currently isn't any reason for Portabe Ops or more importantly Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance to be ignored as contributions. In a codec conversation from the latter game set four years after MGS4 features Raiden acknowledging that Solid Snake had already passed away.

 

[Erigu]

Skull Face had been a notable assassin for the Soviet Union in the early portion of the Cold War. He ultimately choose to defect to the West after successfully assassinating the Russian Premier, Joseph Stalin

I'm really not sure where people got the idea that he actually killed Stalin. The game doesn't say that.

 

[heringer]

In a codec conversation from the latter game set four years after MGS4 features Raiden acknowledging that Solid Snake had already passed away.

You sure about that? In the codecs I saw (never played the game, just listened to the references on YouTube) Raiden talks about him in the present sense. "He is one of the greatest soldiers I've ever met, he knows what is right" or something like that.

 

[Erigu]

You sure about that?

I seem to remember that's correct. I think a character talks about how he wished he had known him, or something like that.
I was looking for hints as to whether or not Snake was dead while I was playing the game, and I remember I did get the impression the characters were talking of him as if he had already died by then, anyway...

 

[demosthenes]

:lol

FOB 2, Command Platform 4/4 takes 5 days and 5 million GMP.

edit:

I just started the 4/4 on FOB 2 and my Fuel is 69k in total but offline resources are -17k and online are 87k. What gives. How does this work?

 

[Gnome Scat]

Does anyone know if anything has been added to GZ post TPP launch?

 

[GodzillaDB]

I'm really not sure where people got the idea that he actually killed Stalin. The game doesn't say that.

Admittedly, I can't recall the source myself at the moment so I cited it straight from the Metal Gear Wikia. However, it seems heavily implied at the very least since Skull Face was known to have an inconsistent MO and Joseph Stalin's death became well known for having been executed under mysterious circumstances. Presumably, he could've assassinated the Premier in the same exact manner that he pulled off with infecting Zero behind closed doors with a contaminated object.

You sure about that? In the codecs I saw (never played the game, just listened to the references on YouTube) Raiden talks about him in the present sense. "He is one of the greatest soldiers I've ever met, he knows what is right" or something like that.

Yes, Raiden speaks to Kevin in a brief sequence utilizing some past tense. "I just wish I got to meet the guy, you know?" You could head out on a limb and suggest the "Hebidamashii" DLC sword solidifies the notion since it harnesses the essence of his soul, but it's a fan-service devise more than anything. Besides, Naomi Hunter confirmed he had twelve months at best with his declining health and complications from the FOXDIE variants. In the closing MGS4 epilogue, Otacon speaks about how he wants to be a living witness to how Solid Snake spends his final days and Revengeance appears to suggest the soldier has passed since Otacon's now focused on maintaining his romance life.

 

[ginger ninja]

^ You may be extrapolaiting it a bit. I don't think that makes it sound like snake is dead, if anything, the opposite.

"He would kill me if he heard me saying this"

 

[Erigu]

Raiden speaks to Kevin in a brief sequence utilizing some past tense. "I just wish I got to meet the guy, you know?"

Ah, yes, that was it. So my memory wasn't playing tricks on me.
(for the record, I played the game in Japanese and he did say that like Snake simply wasn't around anymore, so that's not a translation issue either)

 

[kotodama]

I concur, it doesn't seem to imply Solid Snake is dead. But damn! Rising probably is the best Metal Gear game, it has all the trops, but everything just works. In Platinum We Trust.

Seriously though, I hadn't played a Metal Gear since Solid came out on PSX, and I just jumped into Rising because Platinum Games was behind the project, and of course that got me to finally get around to trying all the Metal Gears I missed and going back and trying all the ones I remembered fondly in my childhood, and in a way it's been a constant disappointment since. To perhaps paraphrase the Boss, they were games of their times, and in the context of their times they were utterly exceptional, but the times change and with it the games. It seems like the series has now been caught in that time paradox.

 

[Makeda]

Big Boss' death.

Thank you for clearing that up!
Completly forgot about that part, I've only gone through that game once and ended up watching the final cut scene at 7am when I needed to sleep

 

[Serpens007]

Folks on Reddit are still data mining the game, latest report suggests up to 10 original missions removed from the final game.

Relevant Info:



Details in link if you're interested. Related?

huh, "the game is deeper than people think" is what they say? Or it just will never happen?

Why are we still here ?

 

[Forkball]

Why are we still here ?

Just to suffer.

 

[Ashura_MX]

O Kojima you are such a master ruseman. So clever. So meta. So genius. I'm Big Boss.

All of my GMPs

 

[Syder]

Does anyone know if there are any references to Policenauts in MGSV?

…or any other references to Kojima games beyond the Jehuty prosthetic & the ZotE emblem part and P.T. references?

 

[bernardobri]

Does anyone know if there are any references to Policenauts in MGSV?

…or any other references to Kojima games beyond the Jehuty prosthetic & the ZotE emblem part and P.T. references?

I didn't notice any references to Policenauts in this entry... Which sucks because Snatcher got a big homage in GZ for its 25th Anniversary, yet Policenauts was launched 21 years ago with no references at all.

 

[meanspartan]

Ok...just finished. Wow, what an ending.

It did come up rather suddenly, felt like it should have had more build up. And playing through the WHOLE hospital scene again was unnecessary.

But damn, I didn't see that twist coming.

So at some point, does Phantom Boss turn "evil" (whatever that means in the MGS universe)?

Hence MG1's plot?

 

[Johndoey]

Ok...just finished. Wow, what an ending.

It did come up rather suddenly, felt like it should have had more build up. And playing through the WHOLE hospital scene again was unnecessary.

But damn, I didn't see that twist coming.

So at some point, does Phantom Boss turn "evil" (whatever that means in the MGS universe)?

Hence MG1's plot?

Cliffnotes. Venom and the real BB collab on Outer Heaven and assorted other shit, BB sics Solid Snake on Venom in MG1 to draw some heat off their plans, Venom gets got, BB gets iced in MG2. Venom seemed chuffed he got sacrificed to the meat grinder that is Solid Snake. The twist does break MG1 don't worry about it too much.

^ You may be extrapolaiting it a bit. I don't think that makes it sound like snake is dead, if anything, the opposite.

"He would kill me if he heard me saying this"

Nah Snake is almost certainly dead considering the levels of creepy fanboying Raiden gets up to in that game and Sunny having fucked off to do her own shit, he didn't have that much time left by the end of 4. They just wanted to leave it somewhat ambiguous.

 

[ginger ninja]

I finished the quiet ending and wow, i keep feeling that ending man. Ahab could have had a good life, instead he was sacrificed for someone else's revenge. He really is the best inherent of boss's legacy.

 

[JGLS]

So I just had a new cutscene on MB, 90 in-game hours after the last one (Mission 46), where Snake arrives on helicopter, MB is on full alarm and Miller just says we've been invaded but he couldn't pinpoint their location. At first I was like "!" when it started, but from the dialogue, and since my FOB Command Platform was recently invaded by a cheater without giving me the option to retaliate (meaning he was not detected), I'm guessing that's what triggered it. Still, it's fascinating to see what kind of other stuff might be hidden...

 

[j0hnny_385]

Finished Truth last night at 3.20am.

Clocked in at 127 hours total.

Oh man...I wanted to write a huge post here explaining everything I feel...but it just feels inadequate.

Yes, the game has issues. Empty open world, bordersome base/staff management, pain-in-the-ass traversal through map, no urgency in story... HOWEVER... all that doesn't matter one bit in the end, the true end, after finishing mission 46.
Oh man...what an ending. It fits perfectly for me. I feel so happy and satisfied on one hand, and on the other I can't believe that it truly is over. After 28 years, Metal Gear is over.
I'm so torn right now.

I didn't look over the past spoiler threads, etc. but can someone summarize why is, as far as I see it, community so angry/disappointed with MGS V? Is there some coherent message being told as to what's the primary cause for distress and anger?
Because, again, the ending to me seems perfect, especially when looking at the whole MGS series.

 

[heringer]

Finished Truth last night at 3.20am.

Clocked in at 127 hours total.

Oh man...I wanted to write a huge post here explaining everything I feel...but it just feels inadequate.

Yes, the game has issues. Empty open world, bordersome base/staff management, pain-in-the-ass traversal through map, no urgency in story... HOWEVER... all that doesn't matter one bit in the end, the true end, after finishing mission 46.
Oh man...what an ending. It fits perfectly for me. I feel so happy and satisfied on one hand, and on the other I can't believe that it truly is over. After 28 years, Metal Gear is over.
I'm so torn right now.

I didn't look over the past spoiler threads, etc. but can someone summarize why is, as far as I see it, community so angry/disappointed with MGS V? Is there some coherent message being told as to what's the primary cause for distress and anger?
Because, again, the ending to me seems perfect, especially when looking at the whole MGS series.

People have a lot of issues with the ending, but the main are that everybody expected to see BB's turning into the villain he is later but instead got what they feel is a pointless story since you play with a nobody, not BB.

But I agree with you. I quite liked the ending, even if I can see the issues with it. Seeing how BB is a huge hypocrite since he turned into the very evil he always tried to fight. And I also like the interpretation that Venom was pissed at BB for throwing Solid Snake at him (mirror punch scene), though some people think he was just punching the demon in him.

In the end, I'm very glad I went completely blind into the game. I had no expectation, no idea of what was going to happen since I haven't watched the trailers nor participated in the discussions. Apparently the trailers spoiled a lot of things and set the wrong expectations.

 

[Johndoey]

Finished Truth last night at 3.20am.

Clocked in at 127 hours total.

Oh man...I wanted to write a huge post here explaining everything I feel...but it just feels inadequate.

Yes, the game has issues. Empty open world, bordersome base/staff management, pain-in-the-ass traversal through map, no urgency in story... HOWEVER... all that doesn't matter one bit in the end, the true end, after finishing mission 46.
Oh man...what an ending. It fits perfectly for me. I feel so happy and satisfied on one hand, and on the other I can't believe that it truly is over. After 28 years, Metal Gear is over.
I'm so torn right now.

I didn't look over the past spoiler threads, etc. but can someone summarize why is, as far as I see it, community so angry/disappointed with MGS V? Is there some coherent message being told as to what's the primary cause for distress and anger?
Because, again, the ending to me seems perfect, especially when looking at the whole MGS series.

As a wayfair Spider-Man fan who suffered through the clone saga, I dislike the casual destruction of continuity, the way this game wraps opens major holes in MG1 and I won't go out of my way to find outs for Kojima.

 

[Barrylad]

I'll preface this by saying I am not a MGS super-fan. I played MGS, and parts of MGS2 & 3 with a pal of mine, but that's it. I got caught up on the lore ahead of five by watching Metal Gear Scanlon and trawling some wikis -- so take that for what it's worth.

I finished the game in the small hours of last night and was originally kind of impressed but confused. Upon sleeping on it and thinking about it more than not at all, I really can't stand a lot of what this game's story was.

Firstly, in relation to Quiet, I think all the bad outweighed the good. And that sucks because I like an awful lot of her character. But the rain cut scene. The shower scene. The forced love dynamic with Boss. The goddamn attempted rape scene in her last mission. Why can Kojima tackle the subject of nuclear deterrence and geo-politics better than he can tackle the subject of a woman not defined by her sex (original Boss as a notable exception). I grew to absolutely loath her presence in the game. So much repugnant shit in one game.

My biggest gripe with the story is how ultimately pointless the whole thing is once it's all said and done. I know a lot has been made of this being V rather than 5 -- but it really does feel like a totally unimportant side story, in the grand scheme of the MGS universe. Is it really relevant -- I mean REALLY -- that, oh by the way, Boss has a decoy, that's who you actually killed in MG1? Does that change anything? To me it makes the entire 100 hour experience feel like a footnote rather than a conclusive chapter.

If they had the dual-character reveal, and then followed it up with something really substantial, a reason why it had to be that way, a look into what Boss was actually doing at the time, then maybe -- MAYBE -- it would have been redeemed. But we didn't get that. The flash forward to Solid Snake coming for Venom (at least that's what I interpreted it) was.. interesting. But nothing especially noteworthy.

Obviously there was copious amounts of stuff cut here, but to me the game's core story is just inherently flawed and not interesting. Even if mission 51 is in there. Even if Chapter 3 is eventually uncovered. I can't overstate how huge those would need to be, storywise, to not make this game feel like a giant meandering side story that should not have been tied to a game of this size and magnitude.

Even if I stop looking at the story's place in the grander universe - I still didn't really like it. When I saw the Chapter 2 teaser, I said to myself 'Oh good, it's not over, because Skull Face sucked and that whole arc was a very by-the-numbers 'stop the bad guy' plot straight out of a season of 24 (harr harr)'.

This is a slightly hyperbolic statement but I'm gonna make it anyway. This game's story feels a bit like the Phantom Menace.

Needless, meandering, ultimately irrelevant prequel that shoehorns in appearances from young iterations of characters you know. It doesn't elaborate on anyone's character - it merely exists just to exist, and for some very shallow fan service. Plus, Kaz and Ocelot's radio conversation at the very end was straight out of those Star Wars prequels. All that melodramatic, almost spiritual verbiage about how Snake and Liquid are destined to fight and everyone else is destined to take sides -- SUPER similar to all the forced, silly dialog basically hyping Anakin/Vader up to be the potential space Jesus. To paraphrase the Red Letter Media review, that stuff was put in Episode 1-3 purely because Vader was famous to us, the viewers. It didn't really wash with what he actually was in the original movies. In those movies he's kind of just a very powerful general. But the prequels were made with the mindset of pandering to older fans, so they're filled with dialog that basically hypes him up a s deity.

It's the same with Ocelot and Kaz' conversation. They have this very cringey conversation that just comes off as fan service, where they acknowledge that Kaz will die, Liquid and Solid will fight, and it'll be an epic occurence. There's no reason for them to know or predict this other than to pander, nod and wink at the audience and to make the whole thing feel like 'destiny.'

... but yeah, that gameplay is real fun! Still might be my GOTY if Fallout doesn't hit a homerun. But 20 or so hours in, I thought it was MGSV's to lose... and boy did they try their damndest to do so.

 

[Golnei]

Why can Kojima tackle the subject of nuclear deterrence and geo-politics better than he can tackle the subject of a woman not defined by her sex (original Boss as a notable exception).

The Boss might not have been intended to be as heavily eroticised as Quiet, but with how heavily the maternal aspect factored into her characterisation, you can't really say she wasn't defined by her sex. Especially considering some of the more overt qualities of that original depiction...

It's the same with Ocelot and Kaz' conversation. They have this very cringey conversation that just comes off as fan service, where they acknowledge that Kaz will die, Liquid and Solid will fight, and it'll be an epic occurence. There's no reason for them to know or predict this other than to pander, nod and wink at the audience and to make the whole thing feel like 'destiny.'

That conversation was terrible, I agree. The premonition of an actual psychic in Portable Ops managed to be less specific and blatantly fanservicey.

 

[Barrylad]

I see what you mean -- perhaps a better choice of words on my part would have been a woman defined simply by sex rather than her sex. I think it was at least appropriate for Boss to be depicted as heavily maternal to Snake.

Feels good to get the info dump out of me anyway. I feel like as time goes on, more people beat it, and more people who already beat it have time to stew on it, history will look back on this game's story in an increasingly negative light.

 

[Berserker976]

I finished the quiet ending and wow, i keep feeling that ending man. Ahab could have had a good life, instead he was sacrificed for someone else's revenge. He really is the best inherent of boss's legacy.

Could have had a good life? You do realize he was one of the most loyal and skilled members of MSF before the crash, right? His future was pretty bleak pre-TPP too, belonging to a rogue military nation and all.

He was a terrible medic that failed to do a proper cavity search, then he got shrapnelled trying to save BB from his own stupid mistake. I don't really feel sorry for Venom at all. He came out of the 9 year thing with the loyalty and respect of the real BB, a kickass new robot arm, and a sweet horn.

Basically, Venom is a mopey piece of shit for no reason.

 

[Astral]

Can someone explain Zero to me? Is he not the monster Big Boss believes he is? It seems he wasn't the mastermind behind the Patriot A.I. but Sigint instead.

 

[Yoshichan]

Here I am once again in this thread.

This time, I'm just stopping by to say that MGSV seemed to have a much darker theme based of the trailers that we saw pre-launch. In my opinion, the children, Quiet's story arc and many other 'dark' opportunities could've been much, much darker.

I personally think that MGS4 is a lot darker than MGSV. (not saying it doesn't have humour, MGS4 is filled with those. But the overall 'theme' of the game is just overall so depression-filled compared to MGS5. I feel so much for Solid Snake when he coughs, when he is in pain, when he sees 'young love in action' (Naomi, Otacon)... and then there's the god damn microwave room. Solid Snake was just so miserable in MGS4, and I really feel sorry for him.

 

[Johndoey]

Can someone explain Zero to me? Is he not the monster Big Boss believes he is? It seems he wasn't the mastermind behind the Patriot A.I. but Sigint instead.

Zero commissioned Sigint to do his bidding and begin all that Patriot nonsense. Zero is human garbage but so are all the others. Zero had BB raped while he was in coma and Eva and Para-medic went along with his sketch bullshit. Sigint fucked the world and BB was the ultimate heel.

 

[heringer]

Here I am once again in this thread.

This time, I'm just stopping by to say that MGSV seemed to have a much darker theme based of the trailers that we saw pre-launch. In my opinion, the children, Quiet's story arc and many other 'dark' opportunities could've been much, much darker.

I personally think that MGS4 is a lot darker than MGSV. (not saying it doesn't have humour, MGS4 is filled with those. But the overall 'theme' of the game is just overall so depression-filled compared to MGS5. I feel so much for Solid Snake when he coughs, when he is in pain, when he sees 'young love in action' (Naomi, Otacon)... and then there's the god damn microwave room. Solid Snake was just so miserable in MGS4, and I really feel sorry for him.

I don't think anyone would dispute that MGS4 is the bleakest of the series. One of the reasons why it's my favorite. Even if the story is dumb, the game really moves me.

 

[MNC]

The attempted rape scene felt more in place than the god awful shower scene and rain scene.

 

[jongkookie]

Just did Quiet's ending and I think Kojima botched her reveal.

If we had known about her photosynthesis and strain of the virus right at the start of the mission, instead of the various tidbits throughout the story, I think the "ashamed of our words and deeds" statement would actually hold some water.

I mean yeah it's still cheap as fnck of Kojima to keep her basically "naked" throughout the game and there's lots of ways he could've avoided that.

But her talking to Peqoud was actually pretty dang poignant... Kojima pulled that off really well and it sucks that her best moment in the game is ruined by some horndog who can't control himself. It even goes meta by how quiet MB becomes, it's another "phantom pain" the player experiences after her disappearance.

It's pretty damn disappointing how Kojima treated Quiet imo. All he had to do was give her some proper clothes and he couldn't even fncking do that. If anything, he's the one who should be ashamed of his words and deeds.

 

[j0hnny_385]

"It's over Ivan. MGS is done. It's been a hell of a ride but it's time to move on. You'll replay the series some day."

...

Yea...some day...

Oh GAF, what have I done...

 

[Batzi]

Just did Quiet's ending and I think Kojima botched her reveal.

If we had known about her photosynthesis and strain of the virus right at the start of the mission, instead of the various tidbits throughout the story, I think the "ashamed of our words and deeds" statement would actually hold some water.

I mean yeah it's still cheap as fnck of Kojima to keep her basically "naked" throughout the game and there's lots of ways he could've avoided that.

But her talking to Peqoud was actually pretty dang poignant... Kojima pulled that off really well and it sucks that her best moment in the game is ruined by some horndog who can't control himself. It even goes meta by how quiet MB becomes, it's another "phantom pain" the player experiences after her disappearance.

It's pretty damn disappointing how Kojima treated Quiet imo. All he had to do was give her some proper clothes and he couldn't even fncking do that. If anything, he's the one who should be ashamed of his words and deeds.

I see no problem with the way she is dressed and Kojima doesn't have to justify anything quite frankly. This is the way he wanted her to look. When you design your character in a video game, you'd get to make that decision yourself. I am really sick of people complaining about Quiet's clothes. Seriously, move on.

 

[heringer]

This week I'll start another MGS4 replay to see how it holds up.

Which remind me, I stil have to play MGR. I have the game on my backlog and played for about an hour or so before dropping to play more interesting stuff. From the brief time I had with the game it seemed a little to much "press button for awesome" for my tastes and I couldn't totally wrap my mind around some mechanics. The camera wasn't very good and Africa was just plain boring. I'll give it another try later though. Is the story any interesting?

 

[KOMANI]

Someone data mined 20 more missions. Is this old news?

 

[Barrylad]

I see no problem with the way she is dressed and Kojima doesn't have to justify anything quite frankly. This is the way he wanted her to look. When you design your character in a video game, you'd get to make that decision yourself. I am really sick of people complaining about Quiet's clothes. Seriously, move on.

He can dress her how he wants and in a conversation critiquing the game's narrative we can not like it.

 

[Johndoey]

I see no problem with the way she is dressed and Kojima doesn't have to justify anything quite frankly. This is the way he wanted her to look. When you design your character in a video game, you'd get to make that decision yourself. I am really sick of people complaining about Quiet's clothes. Seriously, move on.

Nah I'll keep complaining bruv.

This week I'll start another MGS4 replay to see how it holds up.

Which remind me, I stil have to play MGR. I have the game on my backlog and played for about an hour or so before dropping to play more interesting stuff. From the brief time I had with the game it seemed a little to much "press button for awesome" for my tastes and I couldn't totally wrap my mind around some mechanics. The camera wasn't very good and Africa was just plain boring. I'll give it another try later though. Is the story any interesting?

The story on its own isn't super interesting, but when you realize its stealthily trolling Kojima throughout the entire game it becomes fantastic. The whole story is like borderline an affectionate parody of Kojima's writing.