Just now, apparently.
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Metal Gear Solid V SPOILER THREAD| [EXTR3ME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
Just now, apparently.
ginger ninja
Banned
It's the same tape, one side reads man who sold the world and the other operation intrude.
Is it for story only or also for MGO?
should be out now.
GodzillaDB
Member
There's a bunch of stuff I want to reply to at the moment...
It would be safe to assume the real Big Boss interacted predominantly with the future Cyborg Ninja according to the canon. It would potentially cheapen the alliance between them if Venom Snake rescued his adoptive sister along with the fact that Fox joins FOXHOUND under Big Boss' command later on. Much of their back-history missions took place in South Africa whereas Venom Snake fought in Central Africa and Afghanistan as it stands right now. Admittedly, it wouldn't be too surprising if they ever crossed paths in possible "interquels" and he ultimately had to be aware of Venom's existence since he was the first soldier sent to "quash" the Outer Heaven Uprising.
In 1966, Gray Fox first encountered the legendary mercenary as a child soldier operating under the alias "Frank Hunter/Jaeger" during the Mozambican War of Independence. Big Boss had him sent to a rehab facility under the false impression he would be safe from the battlefield, but the CIA eventually took possession of his life for experimentation in the "Perfect Soldier Project" driven to create a remorseless weapon through emotional/memory suppression that vicariously enhanced killing instinct. Later in November/December 1970, Fox resurfaced on the front lines under the codename "Null" where he confronted Big Boss once more as part of the San Hieronymo Incident (Portable Ops). The renowned soldier pleaded that he seek assistance outside of the FOX unit over his post-traumatic stress disorder, but Fox continued to redeploy for military service. Overtime, Gray Fox would adopt a young Naomi Hunter after murdering her parents in 1979 during the Rhodesian Bush War. He'd join the RENAMO movement at some point to fight in the Mozambican Civil War before being extensively tortured, losing both ears and nose, prior to being rescued by Big Boss for a third time. Naomi managed to meet the formerly codenamed "Naked Snake" during the 1980s when he took her to the United States before heading back to fight in Africa with Gray Fox.
It would be safe to assume the real Big Boss interacted predominantly with the future Cyborg Ninja according to the canon. It would potentially cheapen the alliance between them if Venom Snake rescued his adoptive sister along with the fact that Fox joins FOXHOUND under Big Boss' command later on. Much of their back-history missions took place in South Africa whereas Venom Snake fought in Central Africa and Afghanistan as it stands right now. Admittedly, it wouldn't be too surprising if they ever crossed paths in possible "interquels" and he ultimately had to be aware of Venom's existence since he was the first soldier sent to "quash" the Outer Heaven Uprising.
Okay I think I might have misunderstood the point you were making. You think the tape with Big Boss speaking to Venom might have happened before Afghanistan?
ginger ninja
Banned
Not nessecarily but it may not have happened at the end of the game/chapter 2. This implies that venom found out he was a double very early on, in the middle or somewhere in between. But no one can be certain.
1.- Correct
2.- The man who sold the world "triggers" the memory (not really but both songs are playing so you can think of it that way), you play the game
3.- Correct
Hmm, I see. Thanks for the detailed post!
I wonder if Gray Fox knew about the whole Phantom thing and was working with Big Boss in Metal Gear to kill Venom. Since he was captured, he offered Snake intel to finish the job.
I mean, I still think it makes sense for Big Boss to kill Venom. Maybe Venom was getting ideas of his own, and making the world think Big Boss was dead could take a lot of heat from him and his plans in Zanzibar Land.
Mat-triX
Member
So...I just beat the game.
I was more-or-less spoiled about you not really playing as the real Big Boss in late September, and that caused me to dislike the game and stop playing. All I knew was that you weren't the real Big Boss which make me think 2 things: Either Big Boss is still in a coma (making the game irrelevant in Big Boss's turn to evil) or he's dead (which not only makes the game irrelevant, but breaks the series). I was fearing that Big Boss was dead and that the BB we know from MG1 to MGS4 was a fake.
The fact that it was neither, and that it was more akin to the movie "The Devil's Double" was a pleasant surprise. I always thought that Big Boss 'dying' at the end of MG1 to than come back in MG2 swearing vengeance was a very video game-y plot point. So for it to be that they are two different people (in two different places) was a retcon I actually liked. Hell, Big Boss sending his clone to sabotage his own plans didn't make much sense in MG1, but since it's a different man, we can imagine that BB sent Solid because he wanted to kill Venom for possibly being to power hungry (?) or soiling his name (?).
I like how Millers/Big Boss's fallout was done (that Miller feels used and betrayed by BB), and I enjoyed that despite thinking this is the one game where Ocelot is 100% on your side/honest with you, he is still a double/triple agent that works for everyone and no one (in this case the real Big Boss).
The smirk Venom gives himself in the mirror is what sticks out the most to me from the ending. I love how it gave a sinister impression; that THIS is the evil Big Boss we were all expecting, existing only as the legend, a shell (or Phantom as the game loves to say) of who the real man is.
While I wouldn't say MGSV is my favorite in the series (too uneven, should have cut/reorganized some of the episodes), the ending - to me - saved the game.
I was more-or-less spoiled about you not really playing as the real Big Boss in late September, and that caused me to dislike the game and stop playing. All I knew was that you weren't the real Big Boss which make me think 2 things: Either Big Boss is still in a coma (making the game irrelevant in Big Boss's turn to evil) or he's dead (which not only makes the game irrelevant, but breaks the series). I was fearing that Big Boss was dead and that the BB we know from MG1 to MGS4 was a fake.
The fact that it was neither, and that it was more akin to the movie "The Devil's Double" was a pleasant surprise. I always thought that Big Boss 'dying' at the end of MG1 to than come back in MG2 swearing vengeance was a very video game-y plot point. So for it to be that they are two different people (in two different places) was a retcon I actually liked. Hell, Big Boss sending his clone to sabotage his own plans didn't make much sense in MG1, but since it's a different man, we can imagine that BB sent Solid because he wanted to kill Venom for possibly being to power hungry (?) or soiling his name (?).
I like how Millers/Big Boss's fallout was done (that Miller feels used and betrayed by BB), and I enjoyed that despite thinking this is the one game where Ocelot is 100% on your side/honest with you, he is still a double/triple agent that works for everyone and no one (in this case the real Big Boss).
The smirk Venom gives himself in the mirror is what sticks out the most to me from the ending. I love how it gave a sinister impression; that THIS is the evil Big Boss we were all expecting, existing only as the legend, a shell (or Phantom as the game loves to say) of who the real man is.
While I wouldn't say MGSV is my favorite in the series (too uneven, should have cut/reorganized some of the episodes), the ending - to me - saved the game.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, the implication is that Venom was posing as Big Boss in MG1. MG2:BB was the real deal and Solid Snake, delinquent son that he was, whacked him with a lighter and an aerosol can (AKA The A-Team Flamethrower).
Cyborg
Member
But in MGS4 he didnt seem burned? Did they use the skin from Solidus or Liquid? Or nanomachines?
He used Solidus' face and various organs from him and Liquid; which is why Solidus' corpse was missing its skin when it showed up in MGS4.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I'm kind of glad they didn't dwell that much on the implications of sewing your son's face onto the man you're in love with. Maybe EVA throwing herself onto the fire could be interpreted as guilt, in a way? It doesn't quite fit, but that scene is incredibly stupid however you look at it.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
To be fair, MGS4 is several orders of magnitude more stupid than... well, everything ever.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
No lies detected.
ginger ninja
Banned
At least he is not raiden. That dude got cyborged and de-cyborged like five times as if its a walk in the park.
He never stopped being a cyborg after Area 51. Are you referring to his civilian body in MGS4's ending?
What happened to the D-dog outfits that were coming? I somehow hope that they are saving it for a second wave of dlc that is actually interesting. Just some kind of assurence they will add content and update the game in the coming months.
Cyborg
Member
On par with 5
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Not even close.
If they're saving the D-Dog outfits for later, I'd actually be less inclined to believe MGSV/MGO3 will see anything resembling long-term support. If they have to pad costume DLC and hats out across several months, there's probably very little else left.
Nan... Par... Hypnosis.
ginger ninja
Banned
Yup and than went cyborg for revengnce. Even in mgs 4, when we came back after stopping outed haven, I was Rolling my eyes so hard.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
He's just a good soldier, as far as I can tell.
SJRB
Gold Member
They're both awful, but for entirely different reasons.
Yeah, I think so too.
Will you hate me if I tell you they are my two favorites? Bwahahaha!
Ocelot probably did hypnotise her into thinking the corpse was actually Big Boss. I mean, if they retconned him into hypnotising Liquid in MGS1, it's not as much of a stretch.
...Kojima had to be stopped.
His bodies are interchangeable, they're designed to be swapped out - since his only remaining organic parts are his spine and head above the jaw, switching between combat and civilian bodies would just require detaching his head/spine from one and placing it in the other. He'd presumably be using his civilian body from MGS4's ending whenever he's at home and switching to the combat one when on deployment with Maverick, since he doesn't actually own the latter; and it's not adapted for civilian life.
I agree about the Outer Haven scene being completely idiotic, though. Trying to stop it single-handedly instead of just picking up Snake and running was almost Prometheus-level dumb.
giancarlo123x
Banned
I'll take that batshit insane story over this incomplete mess any day of the week.
Cyborg
Member
I agree with Giancarlo
On Topic: How in the hell can Pazz not be real? What is going on here?
I assume he does that sweet love to Rose while in his civilian body, right?
Somebody should ask Kojima or Tamari what the state of artificial dick technology is like in 2018. But even if his civilian body doesn't have one, presumably he could just wear a strap-on, and he still does have fingers and a (possibly organic?) tongue.
...also, the pickled cock from Raiden's original body probably sat on the desk of some Patriot scientist for 4 years.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I'm gonna regret getting into this... 
Yeah, unlike the rest of GAF I don't actually think TPP is "awful". Flawed? Sure as shit! Not awful though, not by any stretch. At least TPP was consistent.
Shit no. MGS4 is the mess here. It's a flabby pail of self-hating swill that seems more concerned with hitting a check list of pander points than in saying anything even approaching worthwhile... well, not beyond how tired Kojima is of the MGS formula, at least.
Off the top of my head, the only story critical thing I can think of that was missing from TPP is a convincing lead up to Mission 46. SuperBunnyHop made a very astute point regarding how unearned that ending was.
As an aside, I wonder how many people would think TPP was incomplete if they hadn't put some of the cut content on the Blu-Ray...?
Yeah, unlike the rest of GAF I don't actually think TPP is "awful". Flawed? Sure as shit! Not awful though, not by any stretch. At least TPP was consistent.
Shit no. MGS4 is the mess here. It's a flabby pail of self-hating swill that seems more concerned with hitting a check list of pander points than in saying anything even approaching worthwhile... well, not beyond how tired Kojima is of the MGS formula, at least.
Off the top of my head, the only story critical thing I can think of that was missing from TPP is a convincing lead up to Mission 46. SuperBunnyHop made a very astute point regarding how unearned that ending was.
As an aside, I wonder how many people would think TPP was incomplete if they hadn't put some of the cut content on the Blu-Ray...?
Cyborg
Member
I'm gonna regret getting into this...
Yeah, unlike the rest of GAF I don't actually think TPP is "awful". Flawed? Sure as shit! Not awful though, not by any stretch. At least TPP was consistent.
Shit no. MGS4 is the mess here. It's a flabby pail of self-hating swill that seems more concerned with hitting a check list of pander points than in saying anything even approaching worthwhile... well, not beyond how tired Kojima is of the MGS formula, at least.
Off the top of my head, the only story critical thing I can think of that was missing from TPP is a convincing lead up to Mission 46. SuperBunnyHop made a very astute point regarding how unearned that ending was.
As an aside, I wonder how many people would think TPP was incomplete if they hadn't put some of the cut content on the Blu-Ray...?
Lack of story, character development (lack of real bosses) and starting a story but cutting it suddenly off are my biggest issues with this game. The worst Metal Gear game I have played to date.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Yeah but you got to play a competent video game at least.
With 4 I couldn't decide whether I wanted the cutscenes to be longer or shorter, since when the game gave me back control I realised how fucking awful it was to play.
I'm gonna regret getting into this...
Yeah, unlike the rest of GAF I don't actually think TPP is "awful".
It will be top three in the GAF GotY vote, and may even be number one.
MGS4 was awful to play? What?
Pilgrimzero
Member
I just got to the Skullface/jeep ride part. Wow, it's as bad as they say.
Info dump - song - info dump - skull dead.
Talk about shoehorned and anti-climatic. And I even knew it was coming. I can't imagine the level of disgust and disappointment a player who wasn't spoiled had to deal with.
Info dump - song - info dump - skull dead.
Talk about shoehorned and anti-climatic. And I even knew it was coming. I can't imagine the level of disgust and disappointment a player who wasn't spoiled had to deal with.
Cyborg
Member
Opinions man opinions! I did like MGS4 (not as much as 1, 2 and 3 but still) but MGSV is just bad. Gameplay is good the rest is just meh....
Chronologically, the Metal Gears got better gameplay-wise, but inversely, the stories got worst. Though, perhaps an argument could be made for if they were ever good to begin with? So yeah, 4 and V are up there in a gaming sense, but not in a story sense. Hell, I keep coming back to play a shitty side op or two just to fulton everything and anything not tied down, but I have no desire to revisit the story.
This is not completely innacurate though, for Metal Gear standards is on the bad side of things with the story, especially since nothing that happens on screen has any actual impact in the timeline.
In the same boat, except I'm "stuck" at Mission 36, just chilling doing side ops and goofing around, MB is 4/4 FOB two struts from 4/4 and most items developed (fuck DLC tho)
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
A) It has far and away the best gameplay by Metal Gear standards. Bar none.
B) Although I think it is arguable that it doesn't have an affect since, like previous games, it reframes the games that came before it, does the lack of impact on the main timeline actually matter at all? For instance, is Ghost Babel a "bad game" because it has no impact on the timeline (regardless of any other aspect of it)?
That's a pretty reductionist assessment.
Plus, the Eli story does have an ending: he gets away.
Done. Is it a satisfying conclusion? Clearly not for some, but that's an ending.... thinking about it, it is not too dissimilar to MGS2's cliffhanger.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Ghost Babel tells a story. V lifts some of GB's beats, but still doesn't tell a story.
I think people got disappointed by the lack of structure in V's story, and then started picking apart it's gameplay. Had the game been focused enough to tell a story, I don't the hate would have been this strong.