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[Mozza]

I agree that Nintendo may feel that way, but I'd argue they should look at Silksong or look back at what happened when Souls got popular. There is absolutely an audience for darker, more complex material, and I find it strange that publishers keep forgetting that.

This will in my opinion be the best selling game of the entire franchise. And I am pretty certain the game will be pretty epic, the changes will fit pretty well when we see the game as a whole. But it will be far more accessible than any other entry in the series.

 

[Buggy Loop]

This will in my opinion be the best selling game of the entire franchise. And I am pretty certain the game will be pretty epic. The changes will fit pretty well when we see the game as a whole. But it will be far more accessible than any other entry in the series.

Pick 20 mins at best for on a character basis from introduction to their quest and moving on, there's 4 of them. That's 1h20 mins of content roughly. Out of how many fucking hours in Metroid? Peoples are overreacting. This is nowhere near close to Atreus, a fucking god of war spending 30 hours with a fucking whiny kid.

Also looking at the biomes and the 11 minutes of footage that is a bit spoilerish, its very much the most dark looking metroid prime game Retro has ever made. It's gonna be so fucking good.

 

[Doomtrain]

This will in my opinion be the best selling game of the entire franchise. And I am pretty certain the game will be pretty epic. The changes will fit pretty well when we see the game as a whole. But it will be far more accessible than any other entry in the series.

Hard to say. I wish them success, but I'd prefer this didn't become the direction Metroid goes in going forward. There are ways they could do "accessible" without losing the tone and sense of atmosphere Metroid is known for.

 

[Montauk]

s

This will in my opinion be the best selling game of the entire franchise. And I am pretty certain the game will be pretty epic. The changes will fit pretty well when we see the game as a whole. But it will be far more accessible than any other entry in the series.

I think we're all aware that a fanboy is going to profess to loving the game, regardless of its faults. No great revelation here.

Not sure how you can possibly know enough about the game to declare that 'the changes will fit pretty well' but there you go.

 

[ADiTAR]

When Nintendo doesnt feature voice acting, boo.
When Nintendo does feature voice acting, boo.

I loved prime 3, sure it wasnt like 1, but it had amazing stuff in it.

 

[Mozza]

s


I think we're all aware that a fanboy is going to profess to loving the game, regardless of its faults. No great revelation here.

Not sure how you can possibly know enough about the game to declare that 'the changes will fit pretty well' but there you go.

It was a personal opinion. No different from somebody suggesting the changes would ruin the game. Both subjective points of view. Let's wait until the reviews are out or we actually play the game.

 

[Montauk]

It was a personal opinion. No different from somebody suggesting the changes would ruin the game. Both subjective points of view. Let's wait until the reviews are out.

I'm not gonna like this stuff regardless of how much of the game it takes up. Whether or not the game is still good enough despite it does - of course - remain to be seen.

But you're declaring that it will definitely be balanced out on the basis of nothing. And you keep implying that we should all be fine with it because it *might* increase sales.

I don't care about the "franchise". I don't care about Nintendo's profits or their IP brand synergy strategies.

I am not a fan of brands. I am a fan of good games. If this contributes to lowering the quality of this game as an experience I'm not going be happy about it or praise it because I feel the need to preserve my identity as a Metroid Prime fan.

Not true of everyone, I know.

 

[Mozza]

When Nintendo doesnt feature voice acting, boo.
When Nintendo does feature voice acting, boo.

I loved prime 3, sure it wasnt like 1, but it had amazing stuff in it.

With Nintendo it's always a case of damned if you do or damned if you don't lol...

 

[Variahunter]

Their minds won't change. At its core they want isolation in Metroid. There is a contingent of us older Metroid fans that never cared about that in the first place. I remember this same conversation playing out with Prime 3. Hopefully all the new youth gamers who didnt even grow up with the Prime games like this more chracter focused storytelling. This is the route Retro clearly wanted to go after Prime 3.

I think you can do both. It's not incompatible.

Having isolation when you explore, let's say the underground or regions, and having like a base in the center of the desert where you can share your discoveries with federation troops and them giving you new pieces of tech or lore. But here it seems like it's entertwined and I feel it's not fitting for Metroid.
Add to that the marvel dialogue and the constant chatter giving you hints and not letting you explore by yourself and you get annoyed pretty quickly.

There's a way to do it, but honestly they chose the worst way possible.

 

[Montauk]

When Nintendo doesnt feature voice acting, boo.
When Nintendo does feature voice acting, boo.

I loved prime 3, sure it wasnt like 1, but it had amazing stuff in it.

It isn't as simple as whether there is voice acting or not.

You've got the context in which the voice acting is present i.e. how much voice acting is there? When does it occur? How good is the voice acting? Does it contribute or distract from the atmosphere?

How good is the WRITING?

You understand that that, right? That the overall context matters a lot, much more than a simple binary of something being present and it not being present?

I can tell you what nobody (logically) is likely to want: too much voice acting, voice acting that negatively detracts from elements people like, voice acting that is performed poorly or voice acting that is badly written.

 

[Mozza]

I'm not gonna like this stuff regardless of how much of the game it takes up. Whether or not the game is still good enough despite it does - of course - remain to be seen.

But you're declaring that it will definitely be balanced out on the basis of nothing. And you keep implying that we should all be fine with it because it *might* increase sales.

I don't care about the "franchise". I don't care about Nintendo's profits or their IP brand synergy strategies.

I am not a fan of brands. I am a fan of good games. If this contributes to lowering the quality of this game as an experience I'm not going be happy about it or praise it because I feel the need to preserve my identity as a Metroid Prime fan.

Not true of everyone, I know.

Never suggested that at all, I have no issues with them altrering the mechanics a little. If you or others do not like it then that's up to you. I was merely suggesting making the game more accessible is not a bad thing for sales, or the franchise going forward. And as of the moment we do not know much about the overall quality of the game. But based on what I have seen thus far I am more than happy.

Very little issue with you caring for the franchise or indeed Nintendo's profits. But if you are a fan then surely you would want more games etc. Another good game that's true to the franchise, whatever that means in the first place. Is pretty pointless if it does not drive the franchise forward. Another million or so seller will most probably have the opposite effect.

I want another Metroid game built from the ground up for the Switch 2 hardware.... Now that would be truly epic.

 

[Lokaum D+]

The gameplay looks very similar to the old games, I'll be impressed if they can get high scores

C'mon its Metroid, It ll be 80+ any day of the year easy, even Other M that is trash tier imo has 79 on Metacritic, always remember that nostalgia is a hell of drug.

 

[Dacvak]

This guy sums up all of the concerns I have, and even some of the optimism I have by the end of the video.

But hoooo boy, the concerns are heavy.

 

[Mozza]

I think you can do both. It's not incompatible.

Having isolation when you explore, let's say the underground or regions, and having like a base in the center of the desert where you can share your discovery with federation troops and them giving you new pieces of tech or lore. But here its seems like it's entertwined and I feel it's not fitting for Metroid.
Add to that the marvel dialogue and the constant chatter giving you hints and not letting you explore by yourself and you get annoyed pretty quickly.

There's a way to do it, but honestly they chose the worst way possible.

We do not know as yet how this is all implemented from such a small sample of the overall game.

 

[LordOcidax]

We do not know as yet how this is all implemented from such a small sample of the overall game.

Exactly… Also is pretty easy to spot the people that haven't played Metroid Prime 3 by just reading the comments… Having talking NPCs is nothing new in the series, even in the MP3 tutorial the NPCs indicates what to do and the some NPCs helps to fight some bosses.

 

[Mozza]

Exactly… Also is pretty easy to spot the people that haven't played Metroid Prime 3 by just reading the comments… Having talking NPCs is nothing new in the series, even in the MP3 tutorial the NPCs indicates what to do and helps to fight some bosses.

Not sure what some people want on here, the last game in the series was released around 18 years ago, and was very different to the original games. Which was one of the reasons I liked it so much. I recently played the remstered original and would have skipped this one if they had simply updated that. I want a experience that feels similar but at the same time intorduces some new experiences... Just like corruption did.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Exactly… Also is pretty easy to spot the people that haven't played Metroid Prime 3 by just reading the comments… Having talking NPCs is nothing new in the series, even in the MP3 tutorial the NPCs indicates what to do and the some NPCs helps to fight some bosses.

And I was completely fine with it. You got a Galactic Federation and a bunch of sentient alien species yet we should never interact with any of them because Metroid is supposed to remain an isolated adventure. Who said that? Sakamoto sure ass hell didn't think that isolation was integral to Metroid when he directed and wrote Other M.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I think Octopath Traveler 0 comes out the same day as this game. I'll play through OT0 at launch and save this game for Christmas time.

 

[Doomtrain]

... and Other M was widely panned for having awful, forced writing.

 

[LordOcidax]

And I was completely fine with it. You got a Galactic Federation and a bunch of sentient alien species yet we should never interact with any of them because Metroid is supposed to remain an isolated adventure. Who said that? Sakamoto sure ass hell didn't think that isolation was integral to Metroid when he directed and wrote Other M.

The majority of people only have played MP1 especially the remastered, they don't know that the series evolved… Like i said, is easy to spot just by reading the comments.

 

[Mozza]

This guy sums up all of the concerns I have, and even some of the optimism I have by the end of the video.

But hoooo boy, the concerns are heavy.

I do sometimes wish these Metroid fans would buy the games lol..

 

[ADiTAR]

It isn't as simple as whether there is voice acting or not.

You've got the context in which the voice acting is present i.e. how much voice acting is there? When does it occur? How good is the voice acting? Does it contribute or distract from the atmosphere?

How good is the WRITING?

You understand that that, right? That the overall context matters a lot, much more than a simple binary of something being present and it not being present?

I can tell you what nobody (logically) is likely to want: too much voice acting, voice acting that negatively detracts from elements people like, voice acting that is performed poorly or voice acting that is badly written.

Yes, I understand that perfectly. Im not dumn, just very low iq.

However, nobody gets to tell Nintendo how to run their franchises. People here also said DKB is wrong because it didnt have this or that, that made DK what it is.

If Retro thought it made sense to place NPCs in it, than Im ok with it. I dont clutch my pearl necklace, mostly because it's liquid.

 

[Doomtrain]

The majority of people only have played MP1 especially the remastered, they don't know that the series evolved… Like i said, is easy to spot just by reading the comments.

So essentially, you're handwaving people disagreeing with you as "they must be ignorant." Most people are well aware that Other M and Prime 3 have more dialogue and NPC's. It appears to be ramped up significantly further than that in Prime 4, and in fairness, lots of people didn't like it in Other M or Prime 3 either.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

... and Other M was widely panned for having awful, forced writing.

Not saying it was great by any stretch, but the internet likes to take a bit of nothing and turn it into something. It was mostly because of the pout scene that got people acting stupid about. The game was pretty good, I thought.

 

[Doomtrain]

Not saying it was great by any stretch, but the internet likes to take a bit of nothing and turn it into something. It was mostly because of the pout scene that got people acting stupid about. The game was pretty good, I thought.

The internet absolutely does make mountains out of molehills, I agree. I personally think Other M is a decent game, but I also think it's held back considerably by a handful of baffling design decisions, the bad writing among them. Metroid is a series capable of being truly excellent when it's at the top of its game, so seeing it held back by easily avoidable mistakes is understandably frustrating.

 

[Mozza]

Not saying it was great by any stretch, but the internet likes to take a bit of nothing and turn it into something. It was mostly because of the pout scene that got people acting stupid about. The game was pretty good, I thought.

What can you possibly be suggesting?... That YouTubers create hysteria over little things for clicks and subscribers......... The mere thoght of it lol..

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

The internet absolutely does make mountains out of molehills, I agree. I personally think Other M is a decent game, but I also think it's held back considerably by a handful of baffling design decisions, the bad writing among them. Metroid is a series capable of being truly excellent when it's at the top of its game, so seeing it held back by easily avoidable mistakes is understandably frustrating.

I tend to agree, but you have to allow for differences since it was co-developed by Team Ninja. At least it was a bit different from the normal formula. I think that's why I like the Prime design so much.

 

[Doomtrain]

What can you possibly be suggesting?... That YouTubers create hysteria over little things for clicks and subscribers......... The mere thoght of it lol..

This is a core issue that I have with the discourse in this thread right now. Yes, of course YouTubers often generate dumb clickbait. But it feels like the insinuation being made is: YouTubers often make clickbait > therefore people who are unimpressed by what they've seen of Prime 4 must be acting disingenuous. (Or in other cases, ignorant.) No, some people just sincerely don't like what they see.

 

[LordOcidax]

So essentially, you're handwaving people disagreeing with you as "they must be ignorant." Most people are well aware that Other M and Prime 3 have more dialogue and NPC's. It appears to be ramped up significantly further than that in Prime 4, and in fairness, lots of people didn't like it in Other M or Prime 3 either.

No at all, but is funny to see some people and some Youtubers overreacting because an NPC talks or guide you over the tutorial like is something new… When is not.

 

[Dacvak]

Not saying it was great by any stretch, but the internet likes to take a bit of nothing and turn it into something. It was mostly because of the pout scene that got people acting stupid about. The game was pretty good, I thought.

I'm one of those people. I hated Other M with every fiber of my being. I think if I took the game as a whole and considered all of the aspects of the game logically, it's probably not as bad as I think it is.

But that's not how the brain and memory works. Those terrible, character-assassinating moments in that game are literally all I can remember about it. It's burned into my head. And as someone who grew up on Metroid to the point of it probably being my favorite video game series, it genuinely put a stain on Samus's character that was tough to wash out.

I mean, there are plenty of other dogshit aspects of that game, like being forced to use pointer controls to fire missiles, and not being able to use just a normal controller in general. But that kind of stuff can be washed out by otherwise great experiences. It's why Metroid Prime 1 is considered a masterpiece, even though there's a pretty long slog near the end in collecting the remaining Chico Artifacts. Same thing with Wind Waker and the Triforce Shards. Those parts in those games could definitely be improved upon, but it almost doesn't matter, because what sticks in the front of your memory at the end of the day is the lasting impression you'll have of that game.

Other M probably had some good parts, but all I can remember are the parts that make me cringe, and actively destroy my perception of an otherwise stoic, awesome main character. It'd be like if your dad was an awesome guy and great father your whole life, but then one day you came home and walked in on him fucking the dog.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I'm one of those people. I hated Other M with every fiber of my being. I think if I took the game as a whole and considered all of the aspects of the game logically, it's probably not as bad as I think it is.

But that's not how the brain and memory works. Those terrible, character-assassinating moments in that game are literally all I can remember about it. It's burned into my head. And as someone who grew up on Metroid to the point of it probably being my favorite video game series, it genuinely put a stain on Samus's character that was tough to wash out.

I mean, there are plenty of other dogshit aspects of that game, like being forced to use pointer controls to fire missiles, and not being able to use just a normal controller in general. But that kind of stuff can be washed out by otherwise great experiences. It's why Metroid Prime 1 is considered a masterpiece, even though there's a pretty long slog near the end in collecting the remaining Chico Artifacts. Same thing with Wind Waker and the Triforce Shards. Those parts in those games could definitely be improved upon, but it almost doesn't matter, because what sticks in the front of your memory at the end of the day is the lasting impression you'll have of that game.

Other M probably had some good parts, but all I can remember are the parts that make me cringe, and actively destroy my perception of an otherwise stoic, awesome main character. It'd be like if your dad was an awesome guy and great father your whole life, but then one day you came home and walked in on him fucking the dog.

I mostly remember the gameplay, and it being a bit difficult. I managed to beat it and my fingers were hurting.

 

[Zannegan]

And I was completely fine with it. You got a Galactic Federation and a bunch of sentient alien species yet we should never interact with any of them because Metroid is supposed to remain an isolated adventure. Who said that? Sakamoto sure ass hell didn't think that isolation was integral to Metroid when he directed and wrote Other M.

I see your point, but Other M is (rightfully) panned for its storytelling and treatment of Samus as a character.

Just look at the reviews, both from critics and fans. It's the game that convinced most that, regardless of his role in the creation of the series and the character, Sakamoto is absolutely not the person who should be shepherding its narrative direction moving forward, and the one that put Metroid out of commission for so long.

Honestly, Other M is about the worst evidence you could cite to convince people that this is a good "evolution" for the series. IMO, Prime 3 works better, but even then, most fans of the game found the Federation-heavy opening to be out of place and a narrative drag.

I'm not against changes on principle, but I get why people are worried. Happy to be proven wrong, but so far I'm not convinced that this is the right direction for it to go. It really does seem to cut against what Metroid is at its core.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Samus Aran should be a kind of Lara Croft in space. A quippy companion is the mood killer. There is no idea dumber than that, seriously, whoever came up with that should be fired immediately.

There are so many things that you can do with Metroid's lore and setting, it just takes a little bit of imagination. Going for the "modern audiences" is a critical error.

For me, this series should blend things of Blade Runner and Alien. Lonely character with ambigous morality, bounty hunter, shady associates, etc. Cracking painfully unfunny jokes is not it.

 

[Zannegan]

No at all, but is funny to see some people and some Youtubers overreacting because an NPC talks or guide you over the tutorial like is something new… When is not.

People aren't acting that way because it's new and scary but because it's been done before and has been somewhere between uninspired and awful each time it has been attempted. They're speaking out of experience, not ignorance.

To your point, this approach is not even unique to the 3D games but also showed up in Metroid Fusion, which is relatively beloved. The problem is, the reasons the game is loved have nothing to do with it being so linear, handholdy, and chatty. Sakamoto seems to be gifted when it comes to gameplay and especially boss encounter design but embarassingly bad at characters.

 

[MagiusNecros]

So GAF what's worse? Asking the hard questions here.

or

 

[Trilobit]

This guy sums up all of the concerns I have, and even some of the optimism I have by the end of the video.

But hoooo boy, the concerns are heavy.

From the video at 3 minute mark:

It is constant. It's constant to the point where his voicelines are interrupting his own voicelines.

Holy shit! That nerdy guy will ruin the game singlehandedly.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I see your point, but Other M is (rightfully) panned for its storytelling and treatment of Samus as a character.

Just look at the reviews, both from critics and fans. It's the game that convinced most that, regardless of his role in the creation of the series and the character, he is absolutely not the person who should be shepherding its narrative direction moving forward, and the one that put Metroid out of commission for so long.

Honestly, Other M is about the worst evidence you could cite to convince people that this is a good "evolution" for the series. IMO, Prime 3 works better, but even then, most fans of the game found the Federation-heavy opening to be out of place and a narrative drag.

I'm not against changes on principle, but I get why people are worried. Happy to be proven wrong, but so far I'm not convinced that this is the right direction for it to go. It really does seem to cut against what Metroid is at its core.

We will agree to disagree then. People cried about Samus personality in Other M(X-Play) when she basically had no personality before Other M. Unless you read that canon manga. They wanted her to be some badass hardcore doom guy character. But the reality is she is a socially awkward individual who has PTSD and grew up with a bunch of Bird Aliens with no other human contact for years until young adulthood. Makes sense why she is like that.

 

[MagiusNecros]

We will agree to disagree then. People cried about Samus personality in Other M when she basically had no personality before Other M. Unless you read that canon manga. They wanted her to be some badass hardcore doom guy character. But the reality is she is a socially awkward individual who has PTSD and grew up with a bunch of Bird Aliens with no other human contact for years until young adulthood. Makes sense why she is like that.

What is Metroid Fusion?

 

[Dacvak]

From the video at 3 minute mark:

Holy shit! That nerdy guy will ruin the game singlehandedly.

The greatest bait-and-switch possible would be if that guy dies in the first act of the game. If Retro put a cringey Marvel-esque wannabe-sidekick in the beginning of the game just to brutally kill him off and completely reset the tone of the game, that would be absolutely brilliant.

Of course there's no chance of that happening, but I can dream.

 

[kevboard]

No at all, but is funny to see some people and some Youtubers overreacting because an NPC talks or guide you over the tutorial like is something new… When is not.

people played God of War and Horizon Forbidden West... and rightfully fear that Retro tried to copy that trash because it's the AAA trend

 

[Trilobit]

The greatest bait-and-switch possible would be if that guy dies in the first act of the game. If Retro put a cringey Marvel-esque wannabe-sidekick in the beginning of the game just to brutally kill him off and completely reset the tone of the game, that would be absolutely brilliant.

Of course there's no chance of that happening, but I can dream.

I hope Samus herself shoots him in the head.

 

[LordOcidax]

people played God of War and Horizon Forbidden West... and rightfully fear that Retro tried to copy that trash because it's the AAA trend

The character is a companion for just 10 minutes (the tutoral area).Is not the same…

 

[MagiusNecros]

The greatest bait-and-switch possible would be if that guy dies in the first act of the game.

Nah it would be he was Sylux the whole time. Which would suck. Because I love Sylux.

 

[Mister Wolf]

What is Metroid Fusion?

Stop man.

 

[Dacvak]

Nah it would be he was Sylux the whole time. Which would suck. Because I love Sylux.

Okay that'd kind of be a hilarious twist.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Stop man.

She had monologues. Maybe you stop. Not to mention how Samus reacted to things in Prime games in cinematics.

 

[Moses85]

 

[Doomtrain]

... I never thought I'd see the day when people romanticized the writing in Other M, of all things.

 

[Zannegan]

We will agree to disagree then. People cried about Samus personality in Other M(X-Play) when she basically had no personality before Other M. Unless you read that canon manga. They wanted her to be some badass hardcore doom guy character. But the reality is she is a socially awkward individual who has PTSD and grew up with a bunch of Bird Aliens with no other human contact for years until young adulthood. Makes sense why she is like that.

Fair enough.

And, again, I see your point about it making sense for her to be traumatized and even to have some weird attachment issues early on. What doesn't make sense, IMO, is for someone who has already overcome so much and done so much to still be that awkward teen girl in an entry that, canonically, comes after Super Metroid.

Of all the overwrought and nonsensical characterization, for me, the worst part was having the return of Ridley, whom she had faced and defeated so many times before, cause her to literally and visually revert into a weeping child.

But, like you said, agree to disagree, and to each their own.

 

[Mister Wolf]

She had monologues. Maybe you stop. Not to mention how Samus reacted to things in Prime games in cinematics.

Did you see her interacting with other human beings in Fusion? Fusion was already pointing to her fixation with Adam. Not to mention she is younger in this cutscene and this team is likely the first and only humans she had close contact with after leaving the Chozo.