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[Chrono]

Yeah late to the party. I had Metroid for a year but the first part of the game made it hard to get into. This thread could be for us late ones.

Now... I just got to the Phazon Mines.

WTF!?

The game just turned 5x harder. I'm dying to find a save station. I just checked the ign cube guide (I had to... so many.. other games to finish. I ended up seeing the final boss.. ) and there' s no save station for a good while into the mines.

Here's my problem: Up until now, I LOVED metroid's "non-traditional" controls. Metroid is about exploration, puzzle solving, until finally you get to the big boss who has his own "technique" to beat like in Zelda games for example. I loved it. It wasn't better or worse then other FPS controls-- I consider metroid an adventure game with a fps perspective. Controlling Samus with two control sticks would hit the game pretty hard in what it aims to be.

However, phazon mines just kicked my ass. The problem is that when you deal with multiple enemies who can't be beaten with one or two hits Metroid's controls become a problem. In a traditional FPS I can turn right and left as I move around with the left stick-- this will allow me to evade the pirates' fire and hit them back. With Metroid, my only hope is the lock-on. If I don't use it I'm done for-- I'll barely get a hit or two. Now when I use the lock-on I can only target ONE enemy. For a boss fight this makes sense. If I can trap and corner multiple enemies and take them on one by one it's also good. However, when I'm in one huge room with no where to hide, and there are 3-4 pirates ALL FIRING AT THE SAME TIME there's no way I'd be able to evade their fire. While I'm locked-on to one another is behind me. I need to keep locked on to charge my beam (super-missiles!) and can't deal with the pirate behind me. I can jump and strafe, but it's like I'm moving in the dark hoping I don't run into that fucker.


So...


1- What do you guys think of metroid's controls? What do you want to see changed for the sequel?

Me... I think their will be more harm then good if they change the controls. Just give us more save stations OR less-- but more powerful-- enemies.

2- Any tips for phazon mines? What techniques did you use? For example did you escape with the morph ball to try and separate the pirates... Or just strafe like a madman. I have to go through about 7-8 wave pirates, 3-4 ice fuckers, 3-4 troopers, and about 5 shadow pirates before getting to a save station. Maximum energy I found totaled 50-60... =\

 

[Meier]

Yea. Phazon Mines was definitely tough but very doable.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

1. i actually loved the controls after about 2 hours with them. i still prefer Halo's controls, but for metroid and the type of game it is, this is the perfect control system.


2. i have no tips on the phazon mines. it's been about a 1-2 years since i beat this game so i couldn't tell you... check gamefaqs.com for tips

 

[The Faceless Master]

they should be configurable...
#1 reason i didnt like prime...

 

[AniHawk]

Yay. They work for the game. To tell the truth, dual analog felt awkward when I began Halo (always used to the single analog setup like GoldenEye and PD).

It wouldn't hurt to include dual analogs as an option. Only problem is the GC controller isn't really the best for that type of controls. Might need a PlayCube or similar Xbox converter (if there is one).

 

[The Faceless Master]

Yay. They work for the game. To tell the truth, dual analog felt awkward when I began Halo (always used to the single analog setup like GoldenEye and PD).

It wouldn't hurt to include dual analogs as an option. Only problem is the GC controller isn't really the best for that type of controls. Might need a PlayCube or similar Xbox converter (if there is one).

dual analog felt right at home when i played Halo... soon as i changed to southpaw anyway...

then again, i used 'Turok' style (a.k.a. 1.2 Solitaire) on pretty much every FPS since .. well .. Turok

 

[demon]

I fuckin hated them. Simplified controls does not necessarily equate to simpler controls. It just made it more difficult for me to maneuver the way I wanted to. Just felt dumbed-down to me, because for me, that's what it was.

 

[Socreges]

Yay. I just wish Samus was more agile.

 

[Alcibiades]

I haven't played the game in a while, but I didn't consider a particular part of the game (Phazon mines gets mentioned a lot) to be considerably harder than other parts...

I thought the control was great other than that the L was used as a lock-on, I would have preferred a under-the-control Z button like on the N64, since I'm used to using two fingers to control the joystick/analog stick...

but basically that's a problem for me in many game, where using my middle finger (left hand) sometimes doesn't feel so right, IMO the N64 has had the best controller ever hands down, I hope the Z button is under the controller next-gen, so I can use it to shoot/lock-on, etc... In GoldenEye 007, I'd use my middle-finger (right-hand) to do all the shooting...

anyway, I definitely, for this type of game, even against multiple enemies/bosses/etc, prefer this type of control over that like Medal of Honor or Halo (which serve their purpose for those games)...

I guess I got through it strafing like mad, but maybe you missed some enegry tank opportunities or something...

 

[Sinatar]

Once I realized that it was basically Zelda in first person, I found the controls to be adequate, but damn me if there weren't MANY MANY times where I wished for a free aim mode where I could keep moving.

 

[Dice]

Yay until it gets difficult like you mention, it wasn't made for action. I could plan it out and dodge and take cover and all my other FPS skills to win, but that doesnt change the fact the controls sucked. I'm especially worried as to how it will control on multiplayer in Echoes, I mean what are they thinking?

Though I must say my #1 complaint isn't the controls, but the fact you always have to charge your weapon to do any sort of decent damage. That is SOOOOOO LAME! And I don't like these new weapons in Echoes using ammo. I mean it may solve the charging issue (I dunno) but they are just making Metroid into a typical FPS, which it should never ever be.

I haven't played the game in a while, but I didn't consider a particular part of the game (Phazon mines gets mentioned a lot) to be considerably harder than other parts...

I thought the control was great other than that the L was used as a lock-on, I would have preferred a under-the-control Z button like on the N64, since I'm used to using two fingers to control the joystick/analog stick...

but basically that's a problem for me in many game, where using my middle finger (left hand) sometimes doesn't feel so right, IMO the N64 has had the best controller ever hands down, I hope the Z button is under the controller next-gen, so I can use it to shoot/lock-on, etc... In GoldenEye 007, I'd use my middle-finger (right-hand) to do all the shooting...

anyway, I definitely, for this type of game, even against multiple enemies/bosses/etc, prefer this type of control over that like Medal of Honor or Halo (which serve their purpose for those games)...

I guess I got through it strafing like mad, but maybe you missed some enegry tank opportunities or something...

What the? That is one of the strangest things I've ever heard, did you permanently damage your thumb as a child or something?

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Yay. Only problem I ever had was hitting X by mistake and rolling into a ball at the most inconvenient times. Otherwise fine.

 

[Ristamar]

Yay.

Tips:
- The jumping dodge strafe (B button) is your friend
- Missles and missile-powered weapons are also your friend.
- Don't get surrounded. Obviously a poor tactical position makes life difficult.
- Zip in and out of the Morph Ball for quick escapes and to avoid becoming trapped.
- Move and fire constantly. Standing still only gets you killed.
- Try to be aware of where your enemies are, even if you can't always see them.
- Double tapping L is a quick way to shuffle your locked target.
- Don't be afraid to jump around, especially if getting the high ground gives a better vantage point of the battlefield and protects you from enemy fire.
- Even if there is no high ground, an occasional lofty jump will help you avoid fire and allow you to keep an eye on your enemies when being attacked from multiple angles.

 

[AniHawk]

but basically that's a problem for me in many game, where using my middle finger (left hand) sometimes doesn't feel so right, IMO the N64 has had the best controller ever hands down, I hope the Z button is under the controller next-gen, so I can use it to shoot/lock-on, etc... In GoldenEye 007, I'd use my middle-finger (right-hand) to do all the shooting...

I also held the N64 controller oddly. I gripped both the far right and far left prongs, and used my left thumb to move while I used my right middle finger to shoot.

I thought it was how it was supposed to be held (was my first system since the NES).

 

[evilromero]

Great controls. I think they shouldn't change them given the game design revolves around them.

And Phazon Mines just requires patience.

 

[Teddman]

Controls were often innovative in how they allowed you to tackle enemies and puzzles...
And FRUSTRATING just as often.

Phazon Mines was the worst part of the game, absolutely understand what you're going through.

The problem is that when you deal with multiple enemies who can't be beaten with one or two hits Metroid's controls become a problem.

Exactly. I found that in a lot of situations, I just had to "take my lumps" and allow myself to be shot as I charged and fired at the various color-coded space pirates. And while it was novel at first, changing beams constantly for each type of enemy got old really quick.

I think the basic issue is that MP turned from an exploration game to an out-and-out FPS style firefight in the Phazon Mines, and the controls just weren't well suited, as you said.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

I think Samus could use a Hylian shield.

 

[Ranger X]

I think that for this game the controls were dead on. Really liked it.
I've never felt this x5 in difficulty when you arrive at Phazon Mines though... Maybe you just try to go too fast or something.
Take the ennemies down from afar when you can. If you're in corridor, remember wich the order of ennemies (to switch fast to the right gun to kill them) and well, make them spawn one by one and or back off to kill them one by one.
I guess it's a section of the game where it's not a good idea to sprint through...

I felt the x5 difficulty when i arrived at the very last boss though... damn it took me an incredible number of trys to kill this bitch.

 

[gofreak]

Just FYI..hope this is news, it was to me - according to the preview in this month's Edge, Retro are implementing a dual analog control system in Echoes (you'll be able to choose which controls you want to use). Sorry if old

edit - check my post below..it's not 100% certain, but they are "looking into it".

 

[AniHawk]

Just FYI..hope this is news, it was to me - according to the preview in this month's Edge, Retro are implementing a dual analog control system in Echoes (you'll be able to choose which controls you want to use). Sorry if old

News to me. Sure to please some people.

But seriously people, buy a damn controller converter. Makes some games so much easier to handle (if it uses dual analogs).

 

[gofreak]

I was working off hazy memory, and having looked back at the article, it is not *quite* certain yet. Here's a direct quote:

"The second group will be heartened to learn that Retro is looking into providing a dual-stick control method this time around. It only has a few months to incorporate an alternative to the original's unusual left-stick-and-shoulder-buttons setup, but the massive amount of feedback it's received on the topic since Prime 1 seems certain to be carrying sway."

 

[Hitman]

Yay!

FACT: YOU CANT DO A BETTER CONTROL SCHEME WHILE KEEPING THE SAME GAMEPLAY THEN THE ONE ALREADY PRESENT IN METROID PRIME.

 

[shibbs]

Yay. Samus could have turned a bit quicker though.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

BEST.CONTROLS.EVER

 

[etiolate]

Do you people not know how to dodge left and right?

 

[Teddman]

Do you people not know how to dodge left and right?

You mean strafe? It's not in this game.

 

[shibbs]

Do you people not know how to dodge left and right?

Isnt that jumping left or right while locked on?

 

[etiolate]

Isnt that jumping left or right while locked on?

Yes.

You mean strafe? It's not in this game.

Bzzt.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

You mean strafe? It's not in this game.

you CAN strafe in the game, although you dont need it alot

to dodge lock on an enemy and hit B + the side you want to go

and to strafe hit R and strafe !!

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Just FYI..hope this is news, it was to me - according to the preview in this month's Edge, Retro are implementing a dual analog control system in Echoes (you'll be able to choose which controls you want to use). Sorry if old

Well, then...MP2:E just appeared on my radar again. Good job, Retro. It had better offer full button config.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Yay. The controls are excellent.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

I give the Metroid Prime controls a yay.

 

[Vlad]

Isnt that jumping left or right while locked on?

Yup. You can also double dodge once you get the space jump early on in the game.

That's really the key to beating the mines. I had trouble on it my first time out, simply because I didn't focus enough on dodging. I got so used to just not worrying about getting hit because I could replenish any damage from the enemies in the area. This doesn't work in the mines because the pirates can dish out a heck of a lot more damage than you'll get back from defeating them.

My second time around, I focused more on being as hard of a target as possible and dodging like crazy, which got me all the way through the infamous section with much less difficulty.

Funny thing is, to someone who has had very little experience with dual analog controls for FPS games, the Metroid control scheme feels perfectly fine. The only console FPS games I've played before I played Metroid Prime were all on the N64. So it's not like the controls are bad in and of themselves, it's just that people have trouble getting used to something so different from what they're used to.

 

[Teddman]

you CAN strafe in the game, although you dont need it alot

to dodge lock on an enemy and hit B + the side you want to go

and to strafe hit R and strafe !!

You mean hit L and strafe? Hitting R activates manual aim.

If you avoid locking onto an object and hit L, then you can sort of strafe in a limited way. But since you cannot look in an independent direction while "strafing," it's not really much of a strafe in the traditional FPS sense.

The best use of strafing is to look in one direction freely while moving in another... Can't do that in MP.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

*blushes*

I didn't play the game for more than a year now

 

[6.8]

That's funny, I just got to the Phazon Mines in my first playthrough of MP yesterday night and got considerably owned at that point too, and was seeking for a save point, but died because I couldn't find any.

I've always had problems with the controls when it deals with Space Pirates though. When it comes to hunting most of the Mindless Drones that live on Tallon IV, I found little to nothing wrong with them.

 

[Littleberu]

I think that for this game the controls were dead on. Really liked it.
I've never felt this x5 in difficulty when you arrive at Phazon Mines though... Maybe you just try to go too fast or something.
Take the ennemies down from afar when you can. If you're in corridor, remember wich the order of ennemies (to switch fast to the right gun to kill them) and well, make them spawn one by one and or back off to kill them one by one.
I guess it's a section of the game where it's not a good idea to sprint through...

I felt the x5 difficulty when i arrived at the very last boss though... damn it took me an incredible number of trys to kill this bitch.

IAWTP

Exactly, the key in Phazon Mines is Scanning, Scanning and Scanning if you don't know where you're going.

I almost had a heart attack when this mini boss appeared when you get the Power Bomb. I only had 2 energy tank remaining, and there wasn't any apparent way to scan it. But it's so much rewarding when it finally come down.

 

[Swordian]

1- What do you guys think of metroid's controls? What do you want to see changed for the sequel?

Me... I think their will be more harm then good if they change the controls. Just give us more save stations OR less-- but more powerful-- enemies.

2- Any tips for phazon mines? What techniques did you use? For example did you escape with the morph ball to try and separate the pirates... Or just strafe like a madman. I have to go through about 7-8 wave pirates, 3-4 ice fuckers, 3-4 troopers, and about 5 shadow pirates before getting to a save station. Maximum energy I found totaled 50-60... =\

1 . I had no real problems with the controls, so I'm not looking for a change in the sequel.

2. The Phazon Mines are harder then what you've encountered so far, but not that hard. Just do what the other people said and dodge around. Personally, I like to jump quite a bit and that usually lets me dodge a lot of hits. It also helps to move slow and tackle the enemies as you come to then. Some of them you can even kill before they appear if you scan thoroughly.

Sadly, some people in this thread seem to be complaining just because the area is difficult. What did you want, a happy jaunt through Metroid Park? Suck it up and practice if you die a few times.

 

[Kiriku]

And while it was novel at first, changing beams constantly for each type of enemy got old really quick.

I definitely agree. It felt like the different weapons themselves didn't matter, it was just about the actual color of it.

 

[ElyrionX]

Nay. The controls suck balls and is the only reason why I stopped after about 4 to 5 hours into the game.

MOST of you who think it is a "Yay" obviously grew up on consoles and have never or hardly touched a PC FPS before.

A first-person shooter *IS* a first-person shooter. Don't give me the bull-shit about how the game is an adventure game and all that crap. Its a first-person game and the controls suck balls for a first-person game. Period.

If the default controls for the game is that of dual-analog with the option to switch it to the current control scheme, I can guarantee you that 95% of you guys would be playing with the dual-analog setup.

BTW, even if there is a dual-analog setup, I seriously doubt that playing with the goddamn C-stick would be easy. Nintendo needs to stop coming up with weird controller designs that play well with their own games but suck with others.

 

[Mama Smurf]

MOST of you who think it is a "Yay" obviously grew up on consoles and have never or hardly touched a PC FPS before.

Obviously

If the default controls for the game is that of dual-analog with the option to switch it to the current control scheme, I can guarantee you that 95% of you guys would be playing with the dual-analog setup.

I dunno, they'd have to change the gameplay quite a bit before I'd see the need to change. Depends how awkward it would make beam switching and things too, I couldn't really say until I saw how they changed the rest of the controls.

BTW, even if there is a dual-analog setup, I seriously doubt that playing with the goddamn C-stick would be easy. Nintendo needs to stop coming up with weird controller designs that play well with their own games but suck with others.

The C-stick works fine, I don't know why you think it wouldn't. No problems with other dual analogue games on the GC.

 

[jarrod]

Prime's only fun in ball mode... with lock-on implemented anyway, I don't understand why they didn't just make the whole game 3rd person. :/

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Prime's only fun in ball mode... with lock-on implemented anyway, I don't understand why they didn't just make the whole game 3rd person. :/

Yup.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Prime's only fun in ball mode... with lock-on implemented anyway, I don't understand why they didn't just make the whole game 3rd person. :/

STICK TO HANDHELDS

 

[Nerevar]

they should be configurable...
#1 reason i didnt like prime...

Exactly.

 

[jarrod]

STICK TO HANDHELDS

Seriously though, the original thinking behind making Metroid 1st person was that it was needed for targeting (combat being primairily long range). But with lock-on targeting the game could still be reasonably well done from a 3rd person perspective and melee combat preserved (screw attack, dash attack, etc) and it'd make platforming better. If NCL/Retro demanded a move to first person perspective why keep relying on lock-on (a mechianic essential only for 3rd person adventure games)?

 

[Deku Tree]

I liked the controls. I thought they fit the game perfectly.
I don't see how the beams would work right with dual analog/no lock on conrols.
Besides alot of the adventure game aspects of the game (climbing for example) would be very frustrating with dual analog.

 

[SaitoH]

Never ceases to amaze me that "gamers" can't adapt to different control setup.

"Waaaaaaa ... it doesn't use two anologue sticks for looking and movement. The game sucks!"

I mean wow. It takes 10 min to get used to the control setup, and it works great. The mind wobbles.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Seriously though, the original thinking behind making Metroid 1st person was that it was needed for targeting (combat being primairily long range). But with lock-on targeting the game could still be reasonably well done from a 3rd person perspective and melee combat preserved (screw attack, dash attack, etc) and it'd make platforming better. If NCL/Retro demanded a move to first person perspective why keep relying on lock-on (a mechianic essential only for 3rd person adventure games)?

I don't understand the desire to move back to 3rd person now personally. Before the game came out I could, everyone thought the jumping was going to be screwed up, but it worked perfectly.

I prefer 1st person now I know the jumping is so good. It immerses me more, and I love things like visors and the effects the environment has on it. I don't think platforming would be made any better in 3rd person, it worked amazingly well in Prime. The screw attack is back for Echoes so I don't see how that can be a complaint, so really there's only dash attack missing. So I guess it's up to the individual to decide whether they prefer the immersion of first person or want the dash attack back (not that I think that'd work particularly well even in 3rd person when in 3D).

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Prime's only fun in ball mode... with lock-on implemented anyway, I don't understand why they didn't just make the whole game 3rd person. :/

I feel the same way.