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Metroid Prime controls-- yay or nay?
- Thread starter Chrono
- Start date
I made a new topic cbake, sorry I missed your response.
The platforming in Prime was pretty watered down in most places though... there wasn't nearly the amount of vertical travel than there has been in the 2D games. A move to 3rd person would've allowed for more precise platforming to be implemented, no way around that.
The platforming in Prime was pretty watered down in most places though... there wasn't nearly the amount of vertical travel than there has been in the 2D games. A move to 3rd person would've allowed for more precise platforming to be implemented, no way around that.
Heh, I had that too, especially during big fights and boss battles.trippingmartian said:
Well, not me. I normally avoid console FPS, and I have been playing PC FPS since Doom. Apart from war/strategy games, it's my favourite genre on the PC.ElyrionX said:
Glad to see you're open for discussion.ElyrionX said:
Couldn't agree more.Saitoh said:
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
ElyrionX said:
Oh, quite an attention span you've got there
I definitely say YAY and yet i've played pretty much every PC fps you can think of, going all the way back to catacomb 3d. Lets see, catacomb 3d, wolfeinstein 3d, blake stone, doom 1 & 2, quake, duke nukem 3d, quake 2, quake 3, unreal tournament/2003/2004, system shock 2, thief 1 & 2, deus ex 1 & 2, half life and all of its expansions, counterstrike from its beta phase 3 to 1.5, undying, tribes 1 & 2, rainbow 6 and its expansions, operation flashpoint, medal of honor AA, soldier of fortune 1 & 2, NOFL 1 & 2, return to castle wolfeinstein, etc. Probably forgot some. Basicly, i've stopped playing FPS when my PC couldnt handle them anymore, which are farcry, doom3.
Whats this about your theory? oh yea, BS. Its called adaptation, nothing to do with what you've played in the past. If gamers can adapt quickly to MP's control scheme and you cant, dont make some poor assumption that its because you're a PC gamer and they're not.
Darkx is probably in the same situation as me, he's played plenty of PC fps and he ranks metroid prime quite high.
A first person game is a camera placed to mimic a first person perspective, it doesnt have to follow any formula beyond that.
Maybe, maybe not, what does it matter? Those who the controls didnt bother them is because they adapted them, if the controls would have been different it would be the same story.
Now, would it have been better if there was the option? Yes, so we wouldnt hear peoples bitch anything there's a metroid prime topic. But heck, im sure they would have found a way to bitch about it anyway.
Drinky Crow
Banned
I might've enjoyed the game if it had dual analog controls -- well, at least until I had to switch visors or scan something. I'd rather they get rid of the lame visor play mechanic and abolish scanning before they switch to dual analog, but if theyn fix all three, I'm totally sold.
Buggy Loop said:
Uhhhh, I don't see how playing 4 to 5 hours of the game can be used against me to mean that I have a short attention span. Maybe your concept of "attention span" is slightly different from that of a rational person. Apart from that, not all of us actually have THAT much time to blow on a game before coming to a reasonable conclusion about something as simple as its control scheme. Some of us DO have a life apart from playing videogames, you know?
Buggy Loop said:
That is precisly why I said "MOST". Even used caps there to illustrate the point. Saying all that proves nothing.
Buggy Loop said:
Try telling that to the hordes of Prime fans who insist on calling it an adventure game and NOT a first-person game........
Buggy Loop said:
The fact is that I DID adapt to the controls. I was already used to it considering the fact that I've been playing the game for a couple of hours (spread out across several gaming sessions, in fact). However, being adapted to the controls does not mean that I have to love it. I don't believe that the two are mutually inclusive and to say otherwise would be fairly ignorant, IMO.
And no, I am NOT a PC Gamer. I am a gamer who plays any and all forms of videogames.
gunstarhero
Member
As much as I LOVED the game, I'd go with NAY - the reliance on the triggers was too much for my chubby digits. Seriously, this was not a comfortable game to play. I defitenly adapted to the controls - and they were not HORRIBLE, but I felt they could have done something better. I really hope they come up with a better control scheme for Echoes.
And wasn't a big fan of all the lock-on -
And wasn't a big fan of all the lock-on -
Drinky Crow
Banned
If the controls were "perfect", there wouldn't be this degree of contention about them. Zelda, SMS? Perfect controls. No-one bitches about them. Metroid Prime? Obviously there's some serious debate, as this is the umpteenth thread on the topic.
I swear, half of you are afraid to learn dual analog. If it's true that Echoes is getting a dual analog option, I may give it a shot. Any hope that visor switching has been abandoned, too? ( know they'll probably keep scanning in, sadly.)
I swear, half of you are afraid to learn dual analog. If it's true that Echoes is getting a dual analog option, I may give it a shot. Any hope that visor switching has been abandoned, too? ( know they'll probably keep scanning in, sadly.)
SaitoH said:
What you're missing is this:
I imagine quite a lot of people didn't consider the controls to be "great", but "working". I'm one of them. Yes, I could adapt to the different control scheme, and it was playable.
So this isn't about the game being unplayable because of the control scheme. This is more about the game being harder and more complicated to play because of the different control scheme. At least for me. It's like the tank controls in Resident Evil. You're being crippled because of a gameplay design choice.
I didn't mind the different scheme that much. It did feel restricting...which is not a good thing.
My biggest gripe with the controls is how slow Samus turns around, she's like a tank. In the 2D games it didn't take her 30 seconds to do a 180.
This also carries over to looking up and down, it was a tad clumsy.
Jumping could have used a bit of tweaking, where you would look down at your feet as you land (moreso than how it currently does).
Again, if you can get over the restrictive vibe the control setup gives us...it works well enough to play through the game.
I have to say though, if it were conventional FPS controls, the combat would have been a lot more exciting, you'd actually kick some ass with Samus, and it would have been heralded as the best singly player FPS game.
My biggest gripe with the controls is how slow Samus turns around, she's like a tank. In the 2D games it didn't take her 30 seconds to do a 180.
This also carries over to looking up and down, it was a tad clumsy.
Jumping could have used a bit of tweaking, where you would look down at your feet as you land (moreso than how it currently does).
Again, if you can get over the restrictive vibe the control setup gives us...it works well enough to play through the game.
I have to say though, if it were conventional FPS controls, the combat would have been a lot more exciting, you'd actually kick some ass with Samus, and it would have been heralded as the best singly player FPS game.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
ElyrionX said:
First person is not a genre, well yes it is in the eyes of the media but its a shitty one, it would be a subgenre at best. You can have a first person adventure, myst III (or iv? whichever was in first person and 3d), you can have a first person RPG such as morrowind. A first person shooter is nothing more than an action game subgenre.
Im pretty sure the "hordes" of prime fans know pretty well its a first person game.. What most argue is that its not entirely and purely a shooter, the adventure is a pretty big part of the game, heck, its metroid has pretty much always has been the "darker version of zelda". The media put metroid prime in the FPS category, because its the standard fare, a first person game with a gun = fps. Yet you can shoot things in morrowind and..
Metroid prime is both an action and adventure game set in first person view, i dont care if you call it FPS, FPA or whatever. I think its childish to even be bothered by someone who would call it an FPA.
The media calls deus ex an FPS, yet it can also be a first person stealth, a first person RPG, it depends on how you play it and what you perceive as being the strongest point of the game, go on a deus ex forum and ask them what they would call it, you'll get all of the answers above, yet nobody goes "DURRRRR, its an FPS! DONT CALL IT OTHERWISE!"
Dagless M.D.
Member
Can a mod please CLOSE THIS THREAD, its nothing but a flamewar with two equally stupid sides.
It took me a while to get used to the controls but now I wouldn't want to play MP any other way.
Phazon Mines get easier with each try once you know what's out there and can anticpate each wave of diferent pirate with the correct gun. Always try and run into the action with a charged shot and make it count..
Also, there's a good opportunity about 3/4 of the way to completely refill your energy in the room with the gas and those green 'puffers' coming out of the walls. Just position yourself outside of the gas cloud and keep shooting at those gasthings coming out of the wall and attract the energy they leave behing with a charge shot. Might take a while but it's worth it as it makes facing the stealth drone up ahead a LOT easier ..
Phazon Mines get easier with each try once you know what's out there and can anticpate each wave of diferent pirate with the correct gun. Always try and run into the action with a charged shot and make it count..
Also, there's a good opportunity about 3/4 of the way to completely refill your energy in the room with the gas and those green 'puffers' coming out of the walls. Just position yourself outside of the gas cloud and keep shooting at those gasthings coming out of the wall and attract the energy they leave behing with a charge shot. Might take a while but it's worth it as it makes facing the stealth drone up ahead a LOT easier ..
Dagless M.D.
Member
Kiriku said:
Because it's unresolvable, it's a topic that has been done to death over and over again. It's somthing that we should be over by now.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
test
OG_Original Gamer
Member
What realize is Samus is very powerful and she can take alot of damage, Shadow, Ice Pirates I used the Ice beam fully charged. Then I would destroy them with a missle.
When fighting the Phazon boss, I would take out the two identical pirates first. Then I would go after the boss. The boss would destroy the last pirate for me.
You have to use your dash, the boss is slow, if you dash and circle around you can beat him with ease. Also don't use beam missile combo when shooting weak spots, use your plasma rifle. That way you want run out of missiles when he's cloaked and recharging.
The controls are great to me, you just have to fully take advantage of Samus's abilities.
When fighting the Phazon boss, I would take out the two identical pirates first. Then I would go after the boss. The boss would destroy the last pirate for me.
You have to use your dash, the boss is slow, if you dash and circle around you can beat him with ease. Also don't use beam missile combo when shooting weak spots, use your plasma rifle. That way you want run out of missiles when he's cloaked and recharging.
The controls are great to me, you just have to fully take advantage of Samus's abilities.
Roofles with 'rolleyes' cherry on top. Anyway...
One mistake I made while initially progressing through Prime was playing it with an FPS mentality, which became a chore. I would kill nearly every enemy, no matter how many times I passed through the area, I avoided every tiny bit of damage like the plague, and I horded missiles, conserving them for bosses and sub-bosses.
Then I realized how I absurd I was acting. I never played any other Metroid that way... the enemies always respawn, so I started running by them when travelling through familiar territory. I didn't worry about damage when I had numerous energy tanks, and there's always a save point where you can refill them relatively close at hand. Missiles are a dime a dozen, plus there's often a missile station near the bigger, tougher bosses that really require their use, so I started using them liberally.
After that, the game was far more enjoyable.
If I recall correctly you don't even have to fight the Pirates he sends at you, sure you could kill them if they were pissing you off but he'd normally do it for you. I pretty much ignored them unless they were in my line of fire and only took minimal damage (w/constant dash strafing and double jumping).
Back on topic, the only thing the lock on system did was make the game too easy. :/
Back on topic, the only thing the lock on system did was make the game too easy. :/
The Faceless Master
Member
it takes alot more than 10 minutes when you've been using the same first person control style since turok: dinosaur hunter...SaitoH said:
the game's basically unplayable...
if it were 3rd person, it would work with that control style...
but first person? no...
the control style is NOT simpler... it's more complicated!!! and unnecessarily at that...
why do 95% of first person perspective games have some sort of controller configuration?
but i guess some people will defend it, like they defnd the mmac...
"oh, it takes 10 minutes to get used to A and B being switched!"
shpankey
not an idiot
Nay. I could get used to it, but instead chose to play a game that didn't have bad controls. That's the great thing about gaming today... there are so many awesome games out, I don't have to force myself to a game with poor controls.
I wonder why none of the Keyboard/Mouse guys ever come forward about Metroid Prime though? Makes you wonder if they just complain about FPS controls when it's on a certain console.
I wonder why none of the Keyboard/Mouse guys ever come forward about Metroid Prime though? Makes you wonder if they just complain about FPS controls when it's on a certain console.
ravingloon
Member
ElyrionX said:
It's for these precise reasons that I give a HUGE YAY!
FPS are made for the mouse. I'm not gonna argue with the few detractors that can never be convinced. Metroid Prime eliminated this by giving a control scheme that was consistent with the Metroid franchise, but wasn't mucked up by the sloppy-ass control of FPSing on a controller.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
The simple fact is, if your a die hard FPS fan and have come custom to dual analog controls, anything that strays away from what you feel is the norm your going to reject.
Its your preference and I don't blame you, your entitled to it. Some of us are more willing to work with the differences, plus I can go back and forth, from playing Halo to MP with no problem.
Its your preference and I don't blame you, your entitled to it. Some of us are more willing to work with the differences, plus I can go back and forth, from playing Halo to MP with no problem.
You know, the main thing about Metroid's controls to me is how they can be improved over an already great scheme. There are some frustrations, especially when dealing with several strong pirates, but overall the controls are pretty good. A great improvement imo would be giving the player more options.
I think it would be best for Metroid to have configurable controls that you can change mid-game like the visor opacity (btw what is the HUD opacity-- it doesn't change anything noticeable ). It will not ruin the game since all Retro will be doing is giving the gamer more options. They can design the game with their primary controls in mind too. For example I have the visor opacity (and HUD lag--ugh) to 0/off but when I got to the phazon mines I turned up the V opacity since the radar/danger warning helps a lot. After the mines I think I'll go back to the clearer screen.
OR... the ability to change lock-on targets with the stick that switches arm cannons. The R button has no effect while you're pressing L, so pressing R and right on the second stick would for example change your lock from the pirate across of you to one on your right instead of pulse-to-wave beam. This could be very helpful since I need to change locks a lot when other pirates come too close and as one poster has mentioned samus turns really slow...
Whatever they do with Echoes though, I think after two games Rerto will have the perfect 3d Metroid formula for the Revolution.
I think it would be best for Metroid to have configurable controls that you can change mid-game like the visor opacity (btw what is the HUD opacity-- it doesn't change anything noticeable
). It will not ruin the game since all Retro will be doing is giving the gamer more options. They can design the game with their primary controls in mind too. For example I have the visor opacity (and HUD lag--ugh) to 0/off but when I got to the phazon mines I turned up the V opacity since the radar/danger warning helps a lot. After the mines I think I'll go back to the clearer screen. OR... the ability to change lock-on targets with the stick that switches arm cannons. The R button has no effect while you're pressing L, so pressing R and right on the second stick would for example change your lock from the pirate across of you to one on your right instead of pulse-to-wave beam. This could be very helpful since I need to change locks a lot when other pirates come too close and as one poster has mentioned samus turns really slow...
Whatever they do with Echoes though, I think after two games Rerto will have the perfect 3d Metroid formula for the Revolution.
Alcibiades
Member
Dice said:
AniHawk said:
I didn't hurt anything, I guess without looking at manuals, I choose the most natural way of holding the controller, and using my LEFT THUMB to shoot with the Z button didn't seem natural.
I guess me and AniHawk used the exact same method, except I used both my LEFT THUMB + LEFT INDEX finger to hold the joystick (with no grip on the middle prong, just the far left one), and my RIGHT MIDDLE finger to shoot with the Z-button...
BEST CONROL EVER (and best controller ever), so the adjustment to the Cube controller was a little weird, and I still have trouble adjusting to stuff like Medal of Honor (PS2), XIII (Cube), and Halo (XBX)...
Father_Brain
Banned
Yay. A Big yay. I am worried, though, that a lot of casual gamers didn't "get" the controls because it was first-person and didn't have dual-analog, and I'm worried that'll hurt sales for the sequel.
BobbyRobby
Member
Yay. The last FP game I seriously played before it was Wolfenstein 3D though, so I'm no authority on the subject.
Korranator
Member
Nay
MP needs dual analog control. It's freaking retarded that I can't use the c-stick for aiming. Still a fun game though, and I'm enjoying it much more than I thought I would have. I just couldn't see how the series could be done justice in a 3D environment, but I'm a believer now. However, no form of 3D can every capture that quick paced 2D platforming feeling, and I still would love to see Nintendo make a 2D version with 3D backgrounds. Maybe they can let the Viewtiful Joe team take a stab at it.
As far as the visor switching part that was OK, however I thought the whole scanning concept was a chore and not very fun at all.
MP needs dual analog control. It's freaking retarded that I can't use the c-stick for aiming. Still a fun game though, and I'm enjoying it much more than I thought I would have. I just couldn't see how the series could be done justice in a 3D environment, but I'm a believer now. However, no form of 3D can every capture that quick paced 2D platforming feeling, and I still would love to see Nintendo make a 2D version with 3D backgrounds. Maybe they can let the Viewtiful Joe team take a stab at it.
As far as the visor switching part that was OK, however I thought the whole scanning concept was a chore and not very fun at all.
Alcibiades
Member
Swordian said:Wait...you use it like a joystick?
well, not really, my palms are still resting on the sides of the controller (I need to grip it from both sides somehow), but really, I think I'm the only person in real-life that controls it like that...
actually, it's my left thumb and left pointer finger that I use, don't know which one is index myabe I got them confused, but basically I use my thumb and the one that comes right after the thumb to control the N64 controller...
that was for 64 though, with the GCN I try to do the same, and with the GCN, it seems to me that I have better control over movement when I do it that way (like in F-Zero GX). Maybe it's just my imagination, but wouldn't having two fingers (Left thumb + left pointer finger) be better than just one (left thumb only)? I think so, unfortunately, then I have do use my left middle finger on the L-button...
The Faceless Master
Member
yeah, the addition of a configurable controller is closed minded... that's a good one... and the pc zombies thing is a pretty smart comment too, considering how much i commented on the *console* games i used the 'Turok' config on.. remember Turok? on N64?etiolate said:
The Faceless Master
Member
yeah, the 'pointer' is the index finger.... it's thumb - index - middle - ring - pinkieefralope said:
Alcibiades
Member
The Faceless Master said:
ok, I guess I was right then...
thanks...
Alcibiades
Member
Swordian said:
yup, more like my pointer finger around the top and thumb on bottom I guess or something like that but they wrap slightly to get a good hold of the analog stick/joystick, but either way I just can't feel a secure grip if I just use the thumb only...
Rocket Punch
Member
The Faceless Master
Member
yeah dude, according to gamerankings, Metroid Prime is the #3 BEST GAME OF ALL TIMEhuzkee said:
yet more people complain about it's controls than all other games ever made combined, minus GunValkyrie
Alcibiades
Member
Mejilan said:
the problem is, with FPS controls, people are going to complain that this is a lame FPS compared to GoldenEye/Halo/SOCOM and what were Nintendo thinking trying to make Metroid Prime a FPS only to fail miserably...
The game isn't a shooter, and allowing the controls to make it seem like a shooter will probably just give haters ammunition, people that probably weren't going to give themselves time to learn the conrols to enjoy the game anyway. Fair-minded people would give themselves 30 min. with the game, and considering the high acclaim it got (inluding both editor/reader GOTY awards), the controls weren't a detriment to the game, but since the perspective in is first person, FPS-lovers may not have wanted to give the game a chance because it has different controls, but if it has FPS-style controls, my guess is they'd be disappointed it's not a shooter...
it's like complaining about Mario Sunshine's camera or Wind Waker's graphics, there is something for haters to latch on to, but looking at the reviews and reception at retail, all 3 games were well-received...
Alcibiades
Member
The Faceless Master said:
maybe on an internet message board they do, but things are probably different in real life (in spite of whatever anedoctal evidence is offered)...
Eh. I thought Metroid Prime had great controls... of course, I'm one to opt for simple controls over complex ones in every case.
My only problem came during the final boss battle; I ended up switching the joypad and the c-stick in the options menu, so I would be better able to swap things on the fly.
My only problem came during the final boss battle; I ended up switching the joypad and the c-stick in the options menu, so I would be better able to swap things on the fly.