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Metroid: Samus Returns |OT| What's past is prologue.
- Thread starter TheMoon
- Start date
that's not what rape means
Nope. Look for another path.
Ear grating. I'm sorry for my language, that was disrespectful on my part.
Just to make sure I don't have it already. I have a beam to shoot through walls. I can jump higher, and go through fire.
I'm a bit puzzled. I'll keep searching I guess
goldenpp72
Member
Are you standing in lava or something?
balladofwindfishes
Member
First Metroid game I've ever 100% beaten *, although I've gotten close in Zero Mission and Fusion.
Now I'm sad I have no more Metroid to play. Until next year, I guess
* Edit: I just remembered I 100% beat Other M lol
Now I'm sad I have no more Metroid to play. Until next year, I guess
* Edit: I just remembered I 100% beat Other M lol
The Third Heat
Neo Member
WHAT?? I did not know you could do that. I feel like I missed out on something cool now. *sadface* I just
blasted her open mouth with missiles.
Astral Dog
Member
Nah, I would like to see a remake of it.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
You mean this thing?
Nintendo NFC Reader/Writer Accessory - Nintendo 3DS https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01307Q6ZC/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Bit pricey...
Astral Dog
Member
An Alien planet 👾
Fusion and Super don't need to be remade.
Metroid I and II needed remakes mainly because of technical reasons, but it was also an opportunity to flesh things out.
Metroid - you don't even start with full health, things that are half your size are super hard to actually hit, there's lots of slowdown, enemies can get stuck in hatches with you and keep damaging you, many enemies are downright frustrating to hit when you can only aim left, right, and up. Samus does not move very well. Can be frustrating to navigate without a map.
Metroid II - In black and white, small screen with Samus having a large sprite, narrow field of view, you get hit by things you can't see quite a lot. Can be frustrating to navigate without a map, especially if you picked the game up after a while and forgot where exactly you where, and if you got the Metroid in that corridor or not.
The first two games had problems that remakes had a lot to benefit from, plus there's the benefit of adding new content, so remakes of those games make sense.
If you go back and play Super Metroid or Fusion, they are perfectly playable today. The controls are responsive, they have a map, you have a good field of view, slowdown is very little to nonexistent, map is intuitive and you will actually be able to know your objective, whether Super's "I haven't been there yet" or the missions Fusion tells you to do. Not to mention they both look nice and still hold up to this day.
I think most people are content with Virtual Console re-releases through the generations of Super and Fusion. I know I am, and they don't really need remakes. Both are perfectly playable to anyone introduced to the series today.
My first time playing Super Metroid was in 2008 on the Wii Virtual Console. I had played Fusion and Zero Mission before it, but I felt right at home playing Super.
If anything, literally the only thing they should do with these games is just release and HD version of them, and otherwise don't fuck with it. They don't need to.
Metroid I and II needed remakes mainly because of technical reasons, but it was also an opportunity to flesh things out.
Metroid - you don't even start with full health, things that are half your size are super hard to actually hit, there's lots of slowdown, enemies can get stuck in hatches with you and keep damaging you, many enemies are downright frustrating to hit when you can only aim left, right, and up. Samus does not move very well. Can be frustrating to navigate without a map.
Metroid II - In black and white, small screen with Samus having a large sprite, narrow field of view, you get hit by things you can't see quite a lot. Can be frustrating to navigate without a map, especially if you picked the game up after a while and forgot where exactly you where, and if you got the Metroid in that corridor or not.
The first two games had problems that remakes had a lot to benefit from, plus there's the benefit of adding new content, so remakes of those games make sense.
If you go back and play Super Metroid or Fusion, they are perfectly playable today. The controls are responsive, they have a map, you have a good field of view, slowdown is very little to nonexistent, map is intuitive and you will actually be able to know your objective, whether Super's "I haven't been there yet" or the missions Fusion tells you to do. Not to mention they both look nice and still hold up to this day.
I think most people are content with Virtual Console re-releases through the generations of Super and Fusion. I know I am, and they don't really need remakes. Both are perfectly playable to anyone introduced to the series today.
My first time playing Super Metroid was in 2008 on the Wii Virtual Console. I had played Fusion and Zero Mission before it, but I felt right at home playing Super.
If anything, literally the only thing they should do with these games is just release and HD version of them, and otherwise don't fuck with it. They don't need to.
I agree on the topic of puzzles and collectibles. I didn't particularly dislike ZM's approach or requiring skill and knowledge of special techs to get 100% completion, it was very interesting at the time, but the return of the Super Metroid school of design was a welcome addition. I just love how well thought many of the puzzles were, placing more unknown obstacles near rooms where you get new power ups, subtly hinting the way to tackle them. I'm actually surprised when I see some users unable to figure them out as I found great how clear the intended progression was for the most part.
And about gadgets like the grappling hook, I think this is probably best game in the 2D series when it comes to making creative use og your full arsenal. I loved how you were never getting upgrades that straight up rendered older ones obsolete, but simply giving you more tools to tackle new problems. Also their implementation in boss fights was fantastic (even though only reading this thread I've found out they were usually optional, haha).
Also I think I'm realizing I'm one of the few who really liked the soundtrack! Sure it doesn't have many memorable tunes, and those who are come mostly from SM, but I like how committed to embracing the original soundtrack's weirdness and creepiness the sound team was, making it mostly atmospheric and even incorporating those weird bleeps and bloops from RoS. I don't really remember many songs, but I do remember feeling a lot of tension and uneasiness in nearly every room of the game thanks to the soundtrack.
Just 100% beat it. What a great return to 2D Metroid. One thing that has really stood out from this game is the amazing boss fights. It just feel so right. In all the other games it always felt so clumsy and awkward having to work with the fixed angels you could only use. The precise aiming in this game allowed them to really make these fights challenging and fun.
I can agree with leaving fusion alone, but something MUST be done with Super Metroid's sloppy controls. Coming to it after playing the others is incredibly annoying. That's what's stopping me from a replay right now.
Yeah this is something I've been meaning to talk about. There are very few boss fights in 2D Metroid that I'd truly consider good, and it's mostly because even in many of the most popular ones I always feel like I'm fighting the boss AND the controls. It's not that they're bad, they work just right for exploration, but in boss fights they're too stiff and lack precision to really make Samus perform the way you want her to.
And then there's Samus Returns, where the level of control is a complete revelation to me. No more missing shots trying to hit very small hit boxes, here I was consistently blowing up enemies behind me by shooting diagonally in mid-air without any issues, and needless to say this worked wonders bosses, which could now be far more relentless than usual and still feel fair. Many metroid forms and Diggernaut could feel overwhelming at first but then I ended up consistently taking out without getting hit and that's so immensely satisfying coming from past games.
Another thing is how the liberty of movement and combat makes progression not only be affected by your power ups, but by actual skill you develop over time as a player as you get used to the controls and abilities, and that's a completely new thing for me in the series and something I never knew I wanted. Feeling OP at the end of these games has always felt empowering, but seeing how you've become really good at it yourself on top of that is far more fulfilling IMO.
CharminUltra
Member
It's not you. I've been playing the series since Metroid on the NES and this game is kicking my ass (on Normal.)
I'm 23 Metroids in, like it alot, but not my favorite 2d Metroid for a few reasons.
Enemies seem too spongey and they are everywhere, makes traversal a chore sometimes.
Game doesn't seem to flow as well as super or even fusion.
Alphas are stupid easy to fight and very repetitive.
Minor nitpicks love alot of the game.
Enemies seem too spongey and they are everywhere, makes traversal a chore sometimes.
Game doesn't seem to flow as well as super or even fusion.
Alphas are stupid easy to fight and very repetitive.
Minor nitpicks love alot of the game.
Yeah I think it is a really good game.
The music thing is kind of inscrutable. I don't really get why it recedes so much for me. I'm puzzled by it.
As far as collectibles, while it is like SM in the way we are discussing, one thing SM and Prime 1 have over games developed with a more stage-by-stage mentality is that you can get 100% very efficiently in those games while you are going along the main game path, especially when you know where they all are. I love testing my memory in those games and trying to not go back through rooms more often than I need to and trying to keep the endgame collection to a minimum.
That's another reason I want that kind of map design back
.Though the teleport system here made it painless and I appreciated going back through all the zones again to sort of regather my thoughts on each before I finished.
...
Not sure how I rate it among them, which is perhaps, oddly something, I've never done.
I've played the original Metroid II, Super, Fusion, ZM, and now this game as far as 2D Metroid goes. I've also played all of those but the original II since this game was announced
.Super is my clear favorite, but after that I don't know how I go.
I really like the first portion of ZM. It is sort of Super's little brother that does unique things all its own. That part is quite short though and then the second act is fairly annoying imo, even when you get the suit back. But again, I really like the first part.
Fusion has a the opposite issue: I like it a lot more after it opens up a little and you are just breaking the walls between sections and going rogue wrt headquarter's orders, but it is hard to maintain interest in the first sections. The game is also overwritten, imo. There could've been a Samus/Adam relationship that was interesting, even with the "daddy" thing, I just think they didn't give us that. They press the obsession and admiration angles too hard.
I think I'd take ZM over Fusion from the above. The Chozodia episode is so epilogue it is easy for me to divide those experiences.
So it leaves me thinking, though, was Metroid II my number two 2D Metroid before this game entered the running? IDK. It honestly might have been, but I'd really need to go back and replay it.
Do I think this game was better than the original? Do I think it was better than ZM?
IDK. If pressed I think I'd say yes to the latter at least and, again, I'd need to replay the original to make a fresh assessment of it towards answering the former.
I think it comes down to, again, the back half of this game. It is really good. I honestly don't think that, hypothetically, if I'd put this question to myself the first night, I'd expect this to be the answer.
Maybe I should play the original again
. IDK. I didn't want to do it before this game and that decision has made me curious about it through all the half memories.Some of which were thwarted! I remember distinctly jumping through a Metroid husk in the original.
I think the issues I have with Super's controls are the select toggle and I suck at wall-jumps.
I have a really hard time jumping out of that sand pit through that one broken grapple block before that wall jump section too.
Mostly though, I don't have problems with it but that could just be me ignoring shit I shouldn't be because the game is blowing me away
.Green Mamba
Member
Trick to fighting Omega Metroids:
Power Bombs instantly destroy their chest armor.
Oh that's fucking sweet
Oh I definitely prefer the SM kind of map structure over this 100% too. Actually I'd say most of my gripes with this game have to do with a (I assume anyway) lack of budget and having to stick to the source material. I'd even say it's quite impressive that they managed to make something this good while sticking to the Metroid II structure, because that game is almost objectively inferior to what we'd later see in Super and its successors, so I'm still amazed that I can confidently say this is my second favorite 2D Metroid.
I think a theoretical Metroid 5 developed by MS would be just amazing, as the talent they showed here is extremely promising... And that art direction in an HD game for Switch... I'm drooling.
To me it's SM > SR > ZM >>> Fusion, though I like them all a lot. I think I technically enjoy the original II more than Fusion, but I dunno, I think Fusion is still better, I guess. The original Metroid is definitely at the bottom though lol.
And I've been debating whether I should start the original II again for some perspective too haha, but I resumed my Prime 3 playthrough today and I'm super hooked, damn, I love these games.
(I have to beat Pinball and FF already too).
I think a theoretical Metroid 5 developed by MS would be just amazing, as the talent they showed here is extremely promising... And that art direction in an HD game for Switch... I'm drooling.
To me it's SM > SR > ZM >>> Fusion, though I like them all a lot. I think I technically enjoy the original II more than Fusion, but I dunno, I think Fusion is still better, I guess. The original Metroid is definitely at the bottom though lol.
And I've been debating whether I should start the original II again for some perspective too haha, but I resumed my Prime 3 playthrough today and I'm super hooked, damn, I love these games.
(I have to beat Pinball and FF already too).
The best part is feeling yourself get better at the fights over time. It fits perfectly with the upgrade power curve so well.
It is weird because the only Metroid games I've played that have that sort of game-flow/map design I'm really really looking for are Super, Prime 1, and the first portion of Zero.
Metroid II, as far as I remember it, was more mysterious and less clearly stage-based, but it was a race to the bottom of a winding maze, rather than a route weaving this way and that in a maze.
But the tendency for new entries has been towards a more discrete-stage-based structure. Fusion, Prime 2, and Prime 3 all have varying degrees of that approach and this game made Metroid II's structure more explicit and its divisions more obvious to the user.
What I like about Prime 2, Prime 3, and this game though is that they manage to mimic Super's structure within stages and their larger size sucks you in and makes it like a series of mini-Super Metroids. Fusion's stages were too small most of the time for me to feel this way.
IDK.
...
But yeah, I hope a) they are right to work on Metroid 5, b) they get a bigger budget, and c) they up their game further. I think this game definitely could be a very very promising start. I hope Nintendo lets it be.
CharminUltra
Member
This is where I stand right now (we'll see how it holds up over time), except for the ZM >>> Fusion part. I enjoyed them more than not, but both left me a little cold in a way that makes it hard for me to decide which game I liked the least. Maybe I'll revisit them some day and figure it out once and for all.
Khaos Kontrol
Banned
So many enemies become much less of a PITA when you get the
Plasma Beam.
Before the SR reveal I couldn't really decide which of those two I liked the most either, I remembered both being equally good and had very fond memories of the creepy moments in Fusion, but that announcement hyped me so much I revisited both games for the first time in almost a decade... And found that the magic of Fusion wears off when replaying it. The linear structure and the constant dialogue and repetitive structure feels super intrusive, and you realize how obviously scripted the SA-X encounters truly are. Before this I never understood all the criticism Fusion gets, but now it makes a lot of sense (even though I still enjoy it a lot!)
Zero Mission I think it's way too short and the epilogue, even though it has its moments, feels like an hour too long, but the rest of the game and the sandboxy feel of the map makes it a joy to play, I think I like the game even more now and I already loved it.
Samus Returns though... It's in a completely different league. Hot dang, I can't wait to get my amiibo and start Fusion mode.
Fusion really starts to show its cracks on replays. The inability to skip the navigation room dialogue is awful.
And the story isn't very good when you start looking at it more closely. Why does Adam suddenly switch personalities? Why are there 10 SA-Xs when you only encounter 1 anyway? Why are the exact same animals from Super Metroid coincidentally on the BSL?
Voidwolf
Member
Area 6 spoilers
Fighting the damn diggernaught and twice I've gotten him down to the final weak spot. The one where he sticks his head and you need to spider ball onto it and bomb each weak point when it lines up with the center. The 3rd and final one never lines up while he's vulnerable! Only when he's electrified. Help me GAF.
SoulUnison
Banned
I wish I was feeling this more, but something feels off.
There doesn't seem to be very much "natural" progression to the world/map and the game just sort of falls back on having the player rely on the Scan Pulse to make sense of the giant maze they're trapped in.
Even on a room-by-room basis, in previous 2D Metroids there was a satisfying instinctive environmental language to where destructible blocks and secret passages would be found, but Samus Returns eschews that to have the player depend on Scan Pulse in every little nook and cranny.
Ironically, your "looking at it more closely" still isn't looking at it "closely enough."
There doesn't seem to be very much "natural" progression to the world/map and the game just sort of falls back on having the player rely on the Scan Pulse to make sense of the giant maze they're trapped in.
Even on a room-by-room basis, in previous 2D Metroids there was a satisfying instinctive environmental language to where destructible blocks and secret passages would be found, but Samus Returns eschews that to have the player depend on Scan Pulse in every little nook and cranny.
Ironically, your "looking at it more closely" still isn't looking at it "closely enough."
The Federation is playing Samus hard. The real Adam may have been someone Samus could trust unconditionally, but the Adam AI is fundamentally a construct under the control of the Federation.
The Federation used their AI and Samus' connection to Adam to manipulate her into coming to the station and helping them regain control of their clandestine operations, all while trying to keep her in the dark about what the station's purpose actually was.
Adam switches personalities because Samus is getting too close to the truth and he/it can no longer risk the buddy-buddy routine because, at that point, he's still locked into the idea of being a Federation-loyal AI.
Likewise, the "10 SA-Xs" is likely AI!Adam lying in an attempt to scare Samus into leaving the station rather than pressing on into the Federation's shady Metroid dealings.
As for the Super Metroid animals, there's a lot of foreshadowing throughout the game that the Federation has been going back over the locations Samus has cleared out in the previous games and are collecting anything of note that she may have encountered and/or interacted with.
I imagine the implication is supposed to be "Samus rescued these creatures... Why? Might as well experiment on them and see!"
The Federation used their AI and Samus' connection to Adam to manipulate her into coming to the station and helping them regain control of their clandestine operations, all while trying to keep her in the dark about what the station's purpose actually was.
Adam switches personalities because Samus is getting too close to the truth and he/it can no longer risk the buddy-buddy routine because, at that point, he's still locked into the idea of being a Federation-loyal AI.
Likewise, the "10 SA-Xs" is likely AI!Adam lying in an attempt to scare Samus into leaving the station rather than pressing on into the Federation's shady Metroid dealings.
As for the Super Metroid animals, there's a lot of foreshadowing throughout the game that the Federation has been going back over the locations Samus has cleared out in the previous games and are collecting anything of note that she may have encountered and/or interacted with.
I imagine the implication is supposed to be "Samus rescued these creatures... Why? Might as well experiment on them and see!"
Try Lightning Armor.
It's the only one where I got to a point where I couldn't make it through the opening after a while.
Part of that was ideological and frustration with where I saw the series was going though. It was easier recently when I was in a more generous and loving state of mind.
Voidwolf
Member
I kept wasting it early on like a scrub, alright I'll do that.
plagiarize
Banned
Just finished and watching the credits rolled. Avoided all spoilers and tips. I did not bothering with 100%. It was very good. I liked it as much as AM2R all considered, and it was definitely different enough that playing both is worth your time.
Happy to get through all by myself even if my clear time wasn't the best. I won't be replaying it because this was my final farewell to the 3DS.
Would replay on switch at 60 fps.
Happy to get through all by myself even if my clear time wasn't the best. I won't be replaying it because this was my final farewell to the 3DS.
Would replay on switch at 60 fps.
I played it about two years ago for the first time on 3DS VC. I finished it. I liked it better than Metroid 1, but definitely had it's share of issues.
I'd say the single most important thing it had over Metroid 1 was the fact that you could crouch. This was a game changer, because it could get incredibly frustrating to hit enemies in the original. However it has flaws such as Samus being so huge, and the field of view on the screen being so small. You would often get hit by enemies you couldn't see. There's also the fact that a lot of areas looked the same, and sometimes you couldn't remember if you had explored all the way down a series of rooms or not, and gotten the Metroid there. The game is definitely enjoyable, but Samus Returns is a straight up improvement and makes it hard to go back to the original.
The bosses weren't quite as interesting. Metroids were for the most part missile sponges, and didn't have the varied attacks they do in this game. The final boss was neat, but also done much better in SR.
CharminUltra
Member
Game was atmospheric as hell back in the day, especially with headphones. That said, I played it after Super Metroid, so it already felt rough/dated to me even back then.
Edit: played it on a GameBoy Pocket, too. I'd love to see it on the original GB.
Demon_Stephen
Member
My copy finally came in the mail. Only six days after the release, thanks Amazon. I'm so excited to finally play it.
It still shocks you when you use lightning armor. Just stay in that bomb spot on his head. You're safe there.
Thanks!
I remember the first time I tried it--I got it used--I somehow didn't realize I was loading a save that was at the Queen. I just sort of wandered aimlessly backwards through the game wondering where all the Metroid were. Next time I booted it up I realized what I'd done to myself
.Just got my GameBoy out and found the game...One of the batteries seems to have done...something. It looks like mold, kind of. I imagine its a leak that crystallized. Well, I'll have to clean that up before I look at it again
.Haha, I do, it was the first Metroid game I ever beat. Back then I had already played Metroid 1 but it was so brutal that I never made it very far, I think I kinda hated the game lol, but loved the ideas behind it, so when II came out I bought it anyway and played it on my big sister's brick.
The game was goddamn terrifying to me haha, the weird music, the lack of color and the scary looking metroids gave it a very hostile feel, but ironically it was hostile in all but difficulty (thank god), so it kept me hooked all the way through. I liked the metroid hunting aspect a lot, and every time I triggered an earthquake I got excited to find out what changed. Crouching and the spider ball were very neat additions too, I remember enjoying exploring with the spider ball a lot.
And the ending was so cute! I'm glad SR sticked to the tone of the original.
Dammit, writing about it only makes me want ro replay it more, but anyway, for replays I actually recommend emulation so you can use one of the multiple color patches out there. I remember there was a particular one with a title screen with blue letters, that one had my favorite pallette.
Adding color kinda diminishes its alien feel, but it helps making it less disorienting too, which is a nice improvement for sure lol.
But yeah, the game is very dear to me and I always lamented how (understandably) overlooked it was. Then AM2R finally released and I was ecstatic that more people were experiencing it, even if it was in remake form, so you can imagine how happy SR makes me.
toadsworth
Banned
Area 3 is a freaking slog. And I keep missing little corridors and stuff. Only 2 metroids left here thank god
On my second playthrough, and I'm enjoying it even more now that I'm decently skilled and know a bunch of tricks like the ice melee and free aim grapple. Metroids are really fun to see how fast I can take them down.
Is there any trick to taking down the spiders that drain aeon? They're really annoying to fight when I'm low on aeon, and they're not always easy to avoid.
Is there any trick to taking down the spiders that drain aeon? They're really annoying to fight when I'm low on aeon, and they're not always easy to avoid.