MGSV: Ground Zeroes - Spoilers Thread - #TeamBowie
- Thread starter Batzi
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I suspected some silly/unfair scripting in parts of the main mission so I did a wipe-Camp-Omega-off-the-face-of-the-earth run through everything before approaching Chico.
Initiating that cutscene spawns about 5 or so guards outside of the prisoner camp and a truck that drives through the giant locked gate. Paz's scene likewise spawns guards and a hostile APC.
Also, If you try to fight off the enemies around the main landing pad and evac while the base is on lockdown (even if you've killed literally every single person on the map up to this point) the troopers will continue to spawn indefinitely.
Initiating that cutscene spawns about 5 or so guards outside of the prisoner camp and a truck that drives through the giant locked gate. Paz's scene likewise spawns guards and a hostile APC.
Also, If you try to fight off the enemies around the main landing pad and evac while the base is on lockdown (even if you've killed literally every single person on the map up to this point) the troopers will continue to spawn indefinitely.
RyanardoDaVinci
Member
I just finished a run where I killed everyone on the map, rescued Paz first, then Chico. I was able to kill everyone in each instance without any more spawning.
I also found out that you can shoot out a majority of the lights; nearly every orange light can be shot, some white tube lights, and all the ones that get shut off by the power switch. Blue-white lights and the ones above most doors can be destroyed.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah I loved that. I was laughing my ass off.
In some ways this does remind me of VR Missions with all the weird self-referential easter eggs.
Why? It's not like we'll be seeing a sequel after MGS4 any time soon.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
A thought I've been having, for some reason. Call it rampant mental fanfic'ing or whatnot, how the heck is Snake supposed to lose his left hand? Was he reaching out to Paz as she blew up at all? In my head I imagine an even more brutal ending where Snake tries to catch Paz before she reveals that she has a second bomb in her, and his left hand that's holding her gets blown off as she explodes.
Of course, the most obvious answer now would be that the fact that two helicopters just freakin' collided might have more to do with him losing his hand.
Of course, the most obvious answer now would be that the fact that two helicopters just freakin' collided might have more to do with him losing his hand.
MeBecomingI
Member
Having finished it last night... it was good, at least gameplay wise. Really good actually. I enjoyed for what it was. The area was pretty big - bigger than I thought so it was nice to kind of explore and just try different things. Turning off Reflex Mode is essential though. Felt a little more classic. I wasn't that bothered by the bomb sequence at the end of the game, like some people here. It was a pretty depressing moment and very dark, but I didn't think it was out of place or unnecessary. It worked well to start laying the foundations for Skull Face to be a pretty fucked up villain. That said, Skull Face is a fucking awful name and Kojima should be ashamed of that. +10 points for originality there, Kojima.
This is the biggest problem I had with the game. His acting was pretty underwhelming and I constantly hear Kiefer Sutherland, not Big Boss. I was hoping for something great considering everyone has been extolling the virtues of Sutherland and how awful Hayter was and yet I've been hearing something pretty subpar. He sounded like he was literally reading lines and not really "acting" his lines, especially the stuff in the tapes. Lines that should've have more emotion (especially in the end when he tells Paz that they took the bomb out) ended up sounding dry... like he doesn't care (oh, and his yell when the soldier died was flat out bad). Some of the lines he had during the tapes about the IAEA inspection just felt flat and boring.
I tried listening to the tapes a few times and it just felt off to me. Like I've said before, I like Sutherland but for a guy brought in to bring some more emotion to the role... I didn't really get that. There are no lines that Sutherland said that I didn't think Hayter could do just as well or even better. And Hayter knows the character far more than Sutherland would. I see people say that he fits because 'it is new' or "missing Hayter because it is routine' (bullshit) or 'the tone is different' or whatever and that just sounds like an excuse. It just doesn't make sense to swap the actors when Hayter is perfectly capable of a more serious tone. I even chatted a bit with my brother who was totally on board with Sutherland and he agreed, the character doesn't feel like Big Boss anymore.
It is what it is though. People will want Hayter and people will love Sutherland. It isn't going to change so I'm just gonna have to get used to it but something feels a bit empty. But when Big Boss stopped talking and it was just me and the game, it felt so good. I really like what they did with the gameplay. Smooth, beautiful and fun.
But the Les Enfants Terribles project started in the early 70's and I think Solid and Liquid were produced in '72, which is before Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes and far before Phantom Pain. And then at the end of Ground Zeroes, it mentions that the project was canned in '76 with no other details. I would assume because the project was a success with the birth of Solid and Liquid (and Solidus).
This is the biggest problem I had with the game. His acting was pretty underwhelming and I constantly hear Kiefer Sutherland, not Big Boss. I was hoping for something great considering everyone has been extolling the virtues of Sutherland and how awful Hayter was and yet I've been hearing something pretty subpar. He sounded like he was literally reading lines and not really "acting" his lines, especially the stuff in the tapes. Lines that should've have more emotion (especially in the end when he tells Paz that they took the bomb out) ended up sounding dry... like he doesn't care (oh, and his yell when the soldier died was flat out bad). Some of the lines he had during the tapes about the IAEA inspection just felt flat and boring.
I tried listening to the tapes a few times and it just felt off to me. Like I've said before, I like Sutherland but for a guy brought in to bring some more emotion to the role... I didn't really get that. There are no lines that Sutherland said that I didn't think Hayter could do just as well or even better. And Hayter knows the character far more than Sutherland would. I see people say that he fits because 'it is new' or "missing Hayter because it is routine' (bullshit) or 'the tone is different' or whatever and that just sounds like an excuse. It just doesn't make sense to swap the actors when Hayter is perfectly capable of a more serious tone. I even chatted a bit with my brother who was totally on board with Sutherland and he agreed, the character doesn't feel like Big Boss anymore.
It is what it is though. People will want Hayter and people will love Sutherland. It isn't going to change so I'm just gonna have to get used to it but something feels a bit empty. But when Big Boss stopped talking and it was just me and the game, it felt so good. I really like what they did with the gameplay. Smooth, beautiful and fun.
But the Les Enfants Terribles project started in the early 70's and I think Solid and Liquid were produced in '72, which is before Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes and far before Phantom Pain. And then at the end of Ground Zeroes, it mentions that the project was canned in '76 with no other details. I would assume because the project was a success with the birth of Solid and Liquid (and Solidus).
The other obvious answer is that it's taken by Cipher to be used to create the Snake clones.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
"But now, Snake will live on, THROUGH HIS SONS... AND THIS ARM!!!!!"
Now it all makes sense.
ThatsMytrunks
Member
Saw someone post this somewhere. Seemed like an interesting character possibility.
Saw someone post this somewhere. Seemed like an interesting character possibility.
No, not even a maybe. Paz is dead, and that other kid is obviously Psycho Mantis. The reason Paz probably lights from the outside is because of a simple error and perhaps the difficulty in creating the lighting from an explosion from the inside of a person.
Personally, from what I've heard so far in the game and the trailers, I think the script already makes it sound like Big Boss doesn't care.
Chico and Paz were tortured? -> "'Kay."
Mother Base is under attack? -> *stares*
"It was ours, damn it! We built it! GIVE IT BACK!" -> "(Whoa, chill, Kaz. What the fuck.)"
Kaz goes to choke the young girl who just had a freaking bomb extracted from her abdomen and is going to die in the next few hours -> "(Hmm, maybe I should do someth- wait, no, medic's got it.")
"Now I'm going to describe my pain and thirst for revenge at lengths despite the fact you should be in the same boat as me, really!" -> "(Man, Kaz doesn't look like he's going to get over that one any time soon... Guess I'll have to build him another base just to shut him up.)"
Fingers are crossed for an ass bomb!
Is this a serious reason?
"Uhhhhhh, how do we explode her from the inside?"
"No no, just explode from outside, it's too difficult."
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
This one's about as crazy as when people were saying that MGS4 Raiden is possessed by Grey Fox because his eyes in the E3 2006 trailer aren't colored right in one frame so it's proof that he was possessed.
Okay, maybe not as crazy.
Do you folks think that maybe Paz exploding with her guts and blood everywhere maybe would have pushed the rating too far?
Speaking of rating, isn't Ground Zeroes in Japan supposed to have some stuff censored? I wonder if they show the bomb extraction in full.
Did Kojima say something about that?
Typomancer
Neo Member
Finished a no-kill run on the main mission. A-rank with over 59k points, probably would have gotten an S-rank if I was a quicker and if I did not get spotted at the very end (took a wrong turn with the truck and Paz was inside, got spotted, ran like hell down the rocks to the east, and then exfiltrated under fire).
I really liked that there is a power generator which shuts down all the lights and cameras in the admin building. Completely different experience to my initial run, which had me guns blazing after getting Paz since it just felt right to kill the bastards knowing what was done.
The tape you get for that one side op where Skullface gives a monologue about his origins was pretty neat. Ashamed to say that I still need to play through Peace Walker despite knowing the backstory fairly well. Got the Legacy Collection, so I know what I will be doing through this weekend alongside the start of a FFX Remastered playthrough.
I really liked that there is a power generator which shuts down all the lights and cameras in the admin building. Completely different experience to my initial run, which had me guns blazing after getting Paz since it just felt right to kill the bastards knowing what was done.
The tape you get for that one side op where Skullface gives a monologue about his origins was pretty neat. Ashamed to say that I still need to play through Peace Walker despite knowing the backstory fairly well. Got the Legacy Collection, so I know what I will be doing through this weekend alongside the start of a FFX Remastered playthrough.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
I'm pretty sure Kojima is retconing when Les Enfants Terribles project is taking place. I'm pretty sure it now occurs when Big Boss is in his coma. Thats the logical time for it to occur now.
Have people talked about how fitting "Here's to You" is as a song for this game? First of all its pretty amazing when it plays in the game but I was reading the back story on the song it self on wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here's_to_You_(song)
Nicola and Bart's story sound familiar?
Also Kiefer sutherland sucks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here's_to_You_(song)
Nicola and Bart's story sound familiar?
Also Kiefer sutherland sucks
XANDER CAGE
Member
Saw someone post this somewhere. Seemed like an interesting character possibility.
what
Like, I can totally buy the creepy kid being a vision of Paz maybe, but the rest of that is incomprehensible.
Yeah, I was mentioning in the other thread that the song choice is really one of the only parts of the narrative I think is brilliant. It really was an inspired pick.
SolidSnakex
Member
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. Especially considering hallucinations seem like they're going to play a big role in TPP. And it seems like a lot of the hallucinations deal with fire. The kid causing a huge fireball in the hallways. The horned guy walking through the fire and also chasing Snake and Ocelot on a flaming horse. Then the giant flaming well. And what was the last thing you saw with Paz? A giant fireball.
It was better suited for MGS4's original ending where Snake and Otacon were executed for war crimes. But Kojima's staff thought that ending was too depressing.
His acting is actually pretty superb during emotional parts. I don't think Hayter would deliver these lines as well, honestly. Especially the final cutscene, Boss' lines after they found out about the bomb was pretty impressive and made Boss not seem like a machine of gargle and fast talking.
Right after Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker confirmed the kids were indeed born in 1972?
Just because of a mistranslation in the English version of Metal Gear Solid?
Because we really need Big Boss to be in a coma to get a DNA sample?
I hope not.
You know what would be crazy? If TPP ended with Solid Snake (played by Hayter) killing Big Boss
Maybe but the problem is he sounds like Kiefer Sutherland. Its very hard for me to attach him to the character. Especially when snake had such a distinct, iconic voice before.
Maybe but the problem is he sounds like Kiefer Sutherland. Its very hard for me to attach him to the character. Especially when snake had such a distinct, iconic voice before.
I would argue that the only reason Hayter's voice is iconic is due to time, rather than it being superior to Kiefer. It works, man. I can see what Kojima is doing. Boss sounds a bit more charismatic and hardened now as opposed to Hayter doing the same things except cranked up to 5000.
Also does Big Boss' voice when he holds someone up sound like Hayter to anyone else?
FlutterPuffs
Member
It's kinda sad that I not surprised and expect retcons to happen.
Still, it's better than having nanomachines to be the solution to every fucking plot.
CaptainSlow
Member
What really surprised me about the voice acting in GZ was Kaz's after the Mother Base attack on the helicopter. I don't think you ever heard Kaz yell or get angry in PW so him getting pissed and calling Paz a bitch over and over was like a "woah, Robin Atkin Downes can fucking ACT" moment.
Kiefer was good during that scene but RAD stole that scene for me. I think if Hayter was there with his gargled Big Boss voice it would have brought the whole moment down for me.
EDIT: I'm curious to see if we get to see how Miller gets to the point in MG2: SS where he calls him a monster. I wonder if Koji is going to retcon that in TPP as well.
Kiefer was good during that scene but RAD stole that scene for me. I think if Hayter was there with his gargled Big Boss voice it would have brought the whole moment down for me.
EDIT: I'm curious to see if we get to see how Miller gets to the point in MG2: SS where he calls him a monster. I wonder if Koji is going to retcon that in TPP as well.
The Silver
Member
It happens every single time.
MGS3 is VR, That's not Solid Snake in MGS4, Raiden is Grey Fox/Sunny/Little John,#team CG, Big Boss is Grey Fox
Now Skull Face is a time travelling BB and Paz is cosplaying as Psycho Mantis.
MGS2 really did a number on the fanbase.
I agree.
I think if Boss would have been voiced by somebody different or by Kiefer in MGS3, people would have a different reaction. I just think since Hayter has always been Snake and Boss that its hard to accept anybody else.
SolidSnakex
Member
While that's true, I think it's clear that MGSV is goign to be closer to MGS2 in terms of how it tries to mess with the player. We're talking about a game that features a flaming whale falling out of the sky.
That's my problem, I keep thinking of Kiefer rather than assigning the voice to the character. I wish they would have gone with some unknown VA.
I relentlessly hunted down every light source. They're all destructible save those with metal bars or a few outside the play space. Q: were the guards in combat phase and were you waiting for your helicopter just outside the base (same area Skull Face takes off from) when rescuing Paz? Cuz that was my situation and I thought it was absurd that CP would send what must have been 30-40 soldiers to kill me (I reloaded to checkpoint) considering I spent the last two hours casually tearing down Gitmo and murdering all within. Even sent Chico home from the same landing pad with my custom song on max volume before getting Paz out of her torture chamber.
That moment when Skull Face explains the song in the most painfully cartoon way after the credits. Absolutely ruined it for me.
I feel like some of the talk on Kiefer Snake is weird and premature.
"I thought they were hiring him to be more emotional - well I didn't see it."
Maybe we should wait until he has a full game to develop, especially one that will deal with repercussions of the shit that goes down in this one?
"I thought they were hiring him to be more emotional - well I didn't see it."
Maybe we should wait until he has a full game to develop, especially one that will deal with repercussions of the shit that goes down in this one?
Well except for the whole "They played us like a damn fiddle!" Though, that had more to do with the wonky ass writing from Kojima, however I still always feel like an amazing actor can make a stupid cheesy line sound godly. Kojima really needs to rehire Jeremy Blaustein someone should be able to tell him that, that line is not something someone would say in English especially at such a moment.
Not sure if the LET thing is a retcon. It says that in 1976 it was scrapped, Liquid and Snake were born in 1972, but Solidus' birth is more ambigous spanning from 1972-1976. The idea that Cipher fucked around with BB clones after the 2 sons isn't exactly farfetched considering the Genome Soldiers in MGS1.
Heck, those weird soldiers from TPP trailer could be offsets of the LET.
Heck, those weird soldiers from TPP trailer could be offsets of the LET.
Saw someone post this somewhere. Seemed like an interesting character possibility.
reaching farther than dhalsim imo
http://youtu.be/ZdNUMXBOv-w I don't speak Japanese but something like this would probably help players who didn't play PW more than the text screens lol.
Unfortunately from the E3 trailer it looks like more of Snake pretending to be Ryan Gosling in Drive while Kaz monologues.
I don't think we can tell anything from like the one line he has in the trailer, even the quantity of his lines.
I know that some want to preemptively damn his performance but for goodness sake, let's hold off a bit longer.
RyanardoDaVinci
Member
I killed the most of them outside of full Alert Mode.
I hit a few guys with headshots to get to the sniper rifle unseen, then climbed up to the south metal watch tower roof, and started sniping them. They radioed and reported gunshots, went into Caution Mode (I guess), and had search teams sent out; after a while, they were all dead/too far to hear the shots. There's around 45 guards in total.
When the APC showed up, I took it down without being seen; maybe they keep spawning if you get spotted at that point?
EmCeeGramr
Member
I think it's the fact that he has two lines in the TPP trailer that has people kind of worried. At E3, Boss not talking back to Ocelot during the intro scene like he was Link was a bit weird, but after GZ and scarcity of Big Boss lines it's possibly a sign of something.
Speaking of that trailer, is the scene of the POW being beaten, waterboarded, and shot at Camp Omega like hidden in a Side Op or something? I don't think it is, which means a return to the camp for TPP's story seems probable.
One can make an educated guess based on all the footage shown so far + Ground Zeroes. In my case I really like him when he does talk. #BringBackCodecCallsKojima
There's a trophy for saving some prisoner scheduled to be executed, maybe it's an in-game scripted sequence?
Seems so, outside of alert mode.
meanspartan
Member
Alright I gotta admit, I bashed and bashed this game based on its pricing, and I actually really like it and concede it does have some solid replay value for stealth fans. I could easily see someone getting something like 6-8 hours, maybe even more if they want perfect runs on each mission on hard mode, out of this game.
I still think pricing is an issue, and indeed I only bought it today because I sold COD Ghosts to gamestop for $30 so I essentially traded it for a game I did not enjoy and wasn't going to play anyway. But the "2 hours of gameplay!!!!" thing is kind of BS. It's got more than that. Of course, if you are the type of person who likes to play through things once for the story and doesn't care about the rest, then you should still stay away.
I still think pricing is an issue, and indeed I only bought it today because I sold COD Ghosts to gamestop for $30 so I essentially traded it for a game I did not enjoy and wasn't going to play anyway. But the "2 hours of gameplay!!!!" thing is kind of BS. It's got more than that. Of course, if you are the type of person who likes to play through things once for the story and doesn't care about the rest, then you should still stay away.
The translation in the original is still the best due to Jeremy Blaustein. If they rehired him, we should know by now. I don't think the lines will be re-recorded for TPP's release.
akidnamededdy
Banned
I don't know what's preemptive about judging his performance now that there is a game available at retail in which we can hear his performance. He's boring in the main mission and he's just as boring in the cassette tapes where he has spoken dialogue.
I am optimistic about TPP in general. I am not optimistic about Keifer's voice acting abilities.
Also find it kind of funny that for as much as Kojima talked about hiring Sutherland because he needed somebody who could express shit with their face for the mocap, there was maybe a line and a half in Ground Zeroes where you could actually see Big Boss's face while he spoke.