ExpandKong
Banned
While I would sort of like this to be true, after MGS4 and Portable Ops and Peace Walker I think you’re probably just giving Kojima too much credit.
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MGSV's story is severely underrated... (Franchise Spoilers)
- Thread starter Roni
- Start date
While I would sort of like this to be true, after MGS4 and Portable Ops and Peace Walker I think you’re probably just giving Kojima too much credit.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
After playing for a bit more last night, I have some more thoughts on the game.
I just got Code Talker back to Mother Base, and the whole idea that this illness will only get worse in an individual if they speak a certain language/certain words sounds really dumb, quite frankly. This being the explanation for why mini speakers were inserted into patients throats makes it even more so. Im still enjoying the story though. Its silly but fun.
Also, the games difficulty REALLY ramped up during the boss fight with those 4 big guys at the airport (when the chopper carrying Snake and Codetalker crashes). When I first met them on that African road. I pretty much killed them all in one fell swoop with some planted C4. They seemed much tougher this time. To beat them I had to land a bunch of well timed counters and get very lucky with the mounted machine guns (usually one guy jumps on me there, soon after I start shooting AND destroys the mounted gun). I probably should have gone back into pre-mission and equipped Quiet and brought some rocket launchers, but Im stubborn.[/Spoilers]
Also, the games difficulty REALLY ramped up during the boss fight with those 4 big guys at the airport (when the chopper carrying Snake and Codetalker crashes). When I first met them on that African road. I pretty much killed them all in one fell swoop with some planted C4. They seemed much tougher this time. To beat them I had to land a bunch of well timed counters and get very lucky with the mounted machine guns (usually one guy jumps on me there, soon after I start shooting AND destroys the mounted gun). I probably should have gone back into pre-mission and equipped Quiet and brought some rocket launchers, but Im stubborn.[/Spoilers]
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Roni
Member
Well, that can be either good or bad, depending on who you ask. Things like the Snake Eater song and MGS4's Raiden wouldn't have been possible unless money was dumped on getting them right. Sometimes the money is well spent, sometimes the money is wasted. Can't win if you're afraid to lose.
I think that's precisely the point: Kojima realized he couldn't keep making his games movies. So he changed perspective and approach for Peace Walker and V. Whereas previous Metal Gear titles were all about exposing the plot and its details through conversations the player had to have - and in doing so placing the player simply as a passive audience member - these new games require the player to take on a more active role to understand the story. Only what is sci-fi and couldn't be infered or look up somewhere is explicitly revealed. The rest subtly hinted at.
That way the very act of looking at the story becomes in interactive activity where players need to hear the tapes, understand what they mean and extrapolate the rest. It also fosters debate about your game, there would be nothing to discuss if the game had a perfectly correct timeline.
Fair enough if you don't like it, but for me it's the opposite: the unexplained is what bothers me. I get that there are people who think explaning something mystical or supernatural in a bad way is worse than leaving it unexplained. But I'm part of the group that thinks introducing something that can't be explained in your game is the crime. If you introduce something extraordinary in your game, you need to have an explanation for it. And I'm glad Kojima owned up to it and released 4 and V to address those issues.
That's but one of the plot points Kojima invites you to figure out on your own, and it's not that difficult: Code Talker wasn't just some random dude you found in the forest. He was the key to XOF's parasite research. Quiet isn't just Quiet, she's an elite XOF operative. She was there at the hospital trying to kill Venom at the start of the game.
It's not tough to imagine, being in Skull Face's inner circle, that she has had to deal with Code Talker and the Navajo for years. She would have had plenty of chances to learn some of the language. The fact that people organically learn languages when in contact with people who speak them is even a mechanic in MGSV: your soldiers learn new languages based on who is assigned to the same team as them.
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Ozrimandias
Member
The game that i been more hyped in my entire life, was Metal Gear Solid 4. After the end of MGS2, a game that introduced concepts that were popular more than 10 years after and with a masterfull plot twist, really got me. After played MGS4, (still got a place in my heart) i felt that some things were inconnected & ridiculous exagerated, among others.....the same feelings that i have with MGSV. Still feels inconnected with Metal Gear 1.
I think that Kojima created something too big, and put so many things in that bag, that in some point, nothing has a connection. Like "Lost". A very open ended game to just thorize about it, but, you just didnt know how to connect all the loose ends.
I think that Kojima created something too big, and put so many things in that bag, that in some point, nothing has a connection. Like "Lost". A very open ended game to just thorize about it, but, you just didnt know how to connect all the loose ends.
KOMANI
KOMANI
I disagree. I think that when we left Fukushima’s Anti-American themes and Murata’s comedic writing (pw and ghost babel are so strong here) we only have Kojima’s amateur sense of story telling. The ideas are always good, but he fails at execution.
It’s either a ton of exposition, where he beats you over the head with it, or just some obtuse writing. These things don’t mash well.
When people talk about mgsv’s “story”, the only thing I can think of is Quiet’s arc. She’s the only chatacter that grows and develops, but her arc is completely missable. Venom doesn’t go through any changes. He doesn’t develop. And if YOU are meant to be part of the legend, the game does nothing to enforce it. Nothing I did in the game has any value within the “story” of the game. I had no real choices, because in order to reach the end, I have to go through the same steps as everyone else to get there.
It’s either a ton of exposition, where he beats you over the head with it, or just some obtuse writing. These things don’t mash well.
When people talk about mgsv’s “story”, the only thing I can think of is Quiet’s arc. She’s the only chatacter that grows and develops, but her arc is completely missable. Venom doesn’t go through any changes. He doesn’t develop. And if YOU are meant to be part of the legend, the game does nothing to enforce it. Nothing I did in the game has any value within the “story” of the game. I had no real choices, because in order to reach the end, I have to go through the same steps as everyone else to get there.
VulcanRaven
Member
I wonder why Tomokazu Fukushima left? His name is in early MGS4 trailers but I don't think he is mentioned as a writer in the final game.
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Roni
Member
I wonder that as well, I tried looking him up to check out whatever he could be doing. But I came up empty in my search.
Roni
Member
Well, you said it yourself. A small, carefully designed scenario can never match an open world. But given that Kojima went with an open world, I believe he pivoted the focus of the game nicely towards freedom, options and variation instead of density.
What ideas didn't mesh all that well in your opinion? I thought the opposite. Would be cool talking about it with you.
I agree that there is enough to say Kojima is not simply lucky. He's a competent designer who knows how to mess with his audience.
I can see how that seems like a flaw, given his track record. But that's what people grilled him for in MGS4. As a result, V uses a completely different approach to storytelling. The story in MGSV isn't given, it's there to be looked for and understood. The player needs to actively search for the answers by listening to the tapes, pieceing the info together and filling in the blanks. That way, players who want the story still get it (and have more of an active role while at it) and players who just want to play the game can do that too without being constantly interrupted by codec calls and long cutscenes.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
For all the slobbering love that MSG3 gets, it amazes me how the same subset of the fanbase will shit all over Peace Walker and MGS5 when those games do an even better job of adding to the overall themes and lore of the series. Having Venom be a throwaway "clone" (in essence) was the perfect betrayal. It makes MGS4 all the more triumphant by showing the depravity these old "war heroes" sunk to in pursuit of their goals.
Good synopsis. I agree with your insights into why the story was arranged the way it was.
Plus the gameplay was super enjoyable, so there's that.
Good synopsis. I agree with your insights into why the story was arranged the way it was.
Plus the gameplay was super enjoyable, so there's that.
AlexxKidd
Member
MGS3 is my least favorite game in the series. Still think it's an amazing game, just my least favorite MGS game. I rank them,
1. MGS. Sorry, nothing beats the original. Kojima was always great. When Fukushima was in grade school, Kojima was making ahead of their time games. His greatness comes from him, and he knows it. Years before MGS came out, I played a game called Snatcher on the Sega CD. My mind was blown. To this day, the game hasn't been surpassed in its genre imo. That game was made by Hideo Kojima. I always knew he was special. Metal Gear Solid is just when the rest of you found out.
2. MGS2. This game is a work of art. From the tanker incident in the beginning, to Raiden's introduction and the "Sons of Liberty" led by the "terrorist Solid Snake," to the greatest mind-fuck end-game ever to grace your television screen, Kojima was at his most prophetic. It's like the front half of that game was written by Kojima, and the back half of that game was written by the bastard child of Nostradamus and Socrates on acid.
3. MGS4. Loved it. Every second of it. Loved how it was the first time we played as Solid Snake since the tanker incident of MGS2, LOVED Drebin, loved how they circled back around to everything and put warm, fuzzy feelings in my heart. Loved how he restored respect to Raiden after making him the butt of some silly jokes in MGS3 to appease fan backlash. This was Kojima saying, "Fuck you, I'm not going to turn Raiden into the whipping boy, I'm going to turn him INTO THE LEGEND." Loved the hour long cut scenes, loved Johnny shitting himself, loved everything people hated including Zero and Jack at the end. Loved the return to Shadow Moses (A Hind D?), loved it all.
4. MGS5. Wow. What a game. The one I put the most hours in, the one I had the most fun with. The one I would play over again if I had to boot one up and play through it starting tomorrow. Unfinished, granted. But unparalleled for what it does, also. I love stealth gameplay. Thanks to this series. What it lacked in hour long cutscenes, it gave me in the intrigue of gameplay and leaving me curious with the tapes. Sometimes I listened, sometimes I didn't. But I couldn't put the game down. When I finally got the true ending, I sat and listened to countless tapes compiled on youtube to piece together what happened and what I missed. It left me wanting more, that's what many hated, but that's what I loved.
5. MGS3. The worst MGS game is still better than any shit 99% of companies put out, so this was a great game as well. I think Eva is hotter than Quiet, and that's saying something cause she's using PS2 graphics! My least favorite Shalashaska, but he's still "pretty good." Loved the fight with The Sorrow, and the solution to beating him. Kojima's most genius boss effort since MGS1's Psycho Mantis fight. The Boss is one of the most compelling characters in the series, and no one will forget that last showdown with her. To this day, I still remember what she taught me. "The basics of CQC." Thank you, Boss.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I kinda lump the games into three 'series', with some trimmings on the side.
Metal Gear - which includes Ghost Babel and other 2D entries. This stuff is fun but hardly the Metal Gear I fell in love with.
Solid Snake's MGS - MGS, MGS4, MGS2 in that order of preference.
Big Boss's MGS - Peace Walker, MGS5, MGS3, Portable in that order of preference.
Overall I think 2 and 3 are "just too PS2" for my liking. Flashes of brilliance but also suffering from mechanical and control shortfalls. MGS has flaws but also has Konami's "arcade charm" in many respects. It's a much shorter and smaller game than people remember. 4 stands at the top, if for no other reason than it is one of the most unique videogames made.
KOMANI
KOMANI
He’s responsible for the cementary scene in mgs4, and nothing else.
If you go by conspiracy theorists, he wasn’t happy not being the sole writer in Ac!d and wasn’t even mentioned to be head writer for portable ops.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Freedom wars for sony’s japan studio. Same job description , scenario writer.
DonF
Member
I disagree. We know that Peace walker was developed on a less powerful system (the psp) which must've had a lower budget. Then with V, kojima clearly was left with out money and time to continue developing the game. So this 2 games have the tapes to develop the story.
Its a budget way to tell a story. Look, if Death Stranding has tons of tapes, ok, you are right. But I firmly believe that the tapes are just a budget thing.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
I don't think I'll convince you otherwise, but using tapes to tell story while also including the feature to let you listen to tapes while on a mission seems like a very deliberate decision, especially in light of the ongoing criticism of "constantly being interrupted for Codec calls and background plot instead of focusing on the action". If you want the nuances, you can listen while grinding out side-missions or exploring the world. If you don't care, then just play the missions.
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Roni
Member
That's my point exactly: Kojima realized the game wasn't going to be fully finished and pivoted to work with less instead of more... He removed things and made the game deliberately (but consistently) incomplete, rather than simply leaving it without things that should be there. It's the sensible thing to do when you realize your project has run out of money. You look at the parts you have developed and ask yourself: "how can I make do with what I have?"
The comparison with a TV series is very fair, and one that Kojima himself made numerous times throughout development. That was intended. But two points: first of all, the game isn't really trying to be a final chapter. That was MGS4. Here the challenge is building enough connective tissue to allow players to look at that moment of the timeline.
And second, you're right that Chapter 51 would've been pure sequel bait, which is why it was entirely removed from the game! We only saw it as video in a limited collection. In the final game, chapter 51 is only mentioned in the timeline - which states Eli was dealt with.
The game has a great metacritic score, yes. But history has shown most people who play MGSV don't like the story. Maybe from not understanding it, maybe from understanding it and really not liking it. Can't do anything about the latter, but I can do something about the former, which is this thread!
What happened in 4 and Peace Walker that made you doubt Kojima's ability? You disliked them? Didn't buy into the lore?
C'mon, the game has several endings. You may not like any of them. But they're there. And the blank slate is deliberate because of the plot twist
They are notoriously more difficult in that scene, lots of people noticed that back when the game was launched.
Dacon
Banned
The game is unfinished, that's a simple fact. The entire final act of the game is missing, and can only be resolved via bonus materials.
Incredibly poor excuse for the MC's complete lack of a personality, agency, and lack of dialogue. Having a MC in a freaking Metal Gear game who is literally a soulless lemming is not a good look.
Do Make Say Think
Banned
I just meant that I believe most people who played the game and cared about the story of the franchise got the themes the game was aiming for.
It just didn't really hit the mark but not because the script wasn't solid. The story was poorly told.
It suffers from the same problem Final Fantasy XII has: great story and themes, bad execution.
One theme that I think gets overlooked is that the whole language virus is an allegory for English becoming more and more prominent. It is something Japan has a lot of experience with. As a Francophone, I liked the idea.
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ExpandKong
Banned
MGS4 - It’s a “final chapter” and is meant to tie up loose ends, I understand that. But it just took things too far and simultaneously not far enough. Like, if you’re gonna come out and say the supporting cast from MGS3, arguably the most beloved game in the franchise even to this day, turned out to be the leaders of the shadow government pulling the strings behind everything, you’ve gotta drop that bomb meaningfully and not in the middle of a sleep-inducing plot dump. It was basically “oh btw the darpa Chief from MGS1 was Sigint and Dr. Clark was Para-Medic and they were both Patriots whomp whomp.”
The entire Big Boss part of the ending could and probably should have been cut.
Since MGS1 the series has taken flak for being a movie first and a game second, but MGS4 was the first time I actually felt like it might be true.
Peace Walker - This was the second of three games (or four depending on your stance on Ground Zeroes) set after MGS3 that was supposed to show you “the fall of Big Boss,” and none of those games did it better than Snake Eater did anyway. I actually liked the gameplay and setting, but everything that needed to be said about The Boss and Big Boss was said in Snake Eater.
Then MGSV is REALLY supposed to show THE FALL OF BIG BOSS for really reals this time and oh guess what, “you weren’t even him - he was off setting up Outer Heaven off-camera. Oh and btw Zero is a vegetable already lol”
I dunno. I could probably articulate this stuff better if I wasn’t at work lol.
Roni
Member
Well, I mean. The ridiculousness has always been with Metal Gear, seems unfair to start picking apart the latest games while there's plenty of cyborg ninjas, invulnerable women and Western inspired enemies in the first games.
It's like I've said, Kojima realized the game would be left incomplete and worked to do the best with what he had. The pain narrative was a perfect opportunity to marry the fact fans would be left wanting with the game saying or doing something original and innovative.
Venom can't change because it's a known that Kojima didn't want to tell the player how to feel about MGSV's story and it's a known fact that having an avatar express an opinion towards something in the game stifles the player's opinion and alienates.
Indeed, Quiet does change: she decides to leave and kill herself instead of deploying the English parasites. But I would make the point that Huey changes a lot from Peace Walker, as does Miller.
Skull Face was one of the most competent villains in the series. So many of his plans went past the planning stages. He's the reason Big Boss and Zero never reconciled. That's a pretty big impact on the MGS universe. And you prevented him from going further.
Thanks, gonna look into that!
I, perhaps, am in the even smaller group of people who liked all MG games. Hehehe, I thought MGS4 was pretty cool too. It was a bit too dramatic, but I loved it.
I agree with that sentiment. Peace Walker is where Big Boss turn evil.
Roni
Member
I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I believe the other poster who addressed you was spot on. Don't forget that there are "Codec calls" in Peace Walker too.
The tech is the same, you have sound files that play and you show the face of the caller. But even with that available, Kojima still made the deliberate choice of using tapes for most of Peace Walker. And the same thing with V. He learned that separating the gameplay from the story made more sense in terms of expanding the audience.
Yes, and one that I've recognized from the start.
The reason Venom doesn't talk, as I've already mentioned in a previous exchange is because Kojima didn't want to influence the player's opinion over the facts of the game. Kojima wanted the player to decide for himself how he felt about what he saw. And it's an established fact that having the avatar express a direct opinion over what's happening alienates players who might think otherwise. It stifles the full range of emotions players can feel.
It was told differently, for sure, but I preferred the change. Kojima invites us to work through the story, collecting evidence and piecing things together. It was a much more active experience.
Man, I don't know. Having Snake meet Eva was like a collision of worlds for me, that scene was fucking awesome. Same for Big Boss' appearance at the end. In fact, V makes the cemetery scene even more relevant by contextualizing why they were enemies and the unfortunate circunstances that caused it.
Snake still believed in the Boss at the end of 3, by the end of Peace Walker, he resents her. That was necessary... He only really turns full evil by the true ending of Peace Walker:
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VulcanRaven
Member
I really hope Konami makes full 3D remakes of Metal Gear 1 and 2. Would be awesome to see Solid Snake vs Big Boss. It would be hard to get it right without Kojima but it would bring the series to full circle after these Big Boss prequels.
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S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Its an unfinished game thanks to a director that took way too long/resources. Konami did nothing wrong.
Konami wasn't supportive of kojima and kojima took long, yes, but konami has a track record of treating their own employees badly, and look at how many of their recent games tanked hard the last few years. Even if konami were to resurrect the MGS game that is not some zombie shooter and bring back david hayter as snake, I still will never ever trust them to make it good.
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Dacon
Banned
Um, what? A fact according to who? Citation needed. I can't imagine anyone would feel alienated over a fictional character having an different opinion, and feel as though their emotions were somehow restricted as a result.
Venom having no personality or presence only served to leave a huge hole in the story where the main character should be, making it borderline impossible to invest in him and his struggles. He's so empty and it does the story no favors.
nani17
are in a big trouble
For me, as a huge MGS fan, I own every single game including MSX version and GameCube I can honestly say I was extremely disappointed by MGSV.
Arguably the worst bosses in MGS history none of them were amazing compared to previous I beat all of them within 1 or 2 goes. Sahelanthropous was the least interesting of all beat it on my first try I was shocked. Man on Fire was ok, not hard either and quiet was well zzzzz fun on extreme
The constant landing and taking off from the chopper got to be a pain in the ass. Not to mention the credits given away who's in the mission thank god PC version had a mod to remove it. Skull face ended up being a complete bore from the trailers I expected more from him. The missions were also very forgettable for me extract this guy listen in hear. It felt so repetitive at times I was like when is it going to get like the others. Yes, the gameplay like the movement is amazing gunplay etc but dam it's still bored me to the point I stopped playing it. I went back later to finish the game but the overall experience was negative.
I might replay it one day but for me its
MGS
MGS3
MGS2
MGS4
MGS5
yes cap
Arguably the worst bosses in MGS history none of them were amazing compared to previous I beat all of them within 1 or 2 goes. Sahelanthropous was the least interesting of all beat it on my first try I was shocked. Man on Fire was ok, not hard either and quiet was well zzzzz fun on extreme
The constant landing and taking off from the chopper got to be a pain in the ass. Not to mention the credits given away who's in the mission thank god PC version had a mod to remove it. Skull face ended up being a complete bore from the trailers I expected more from him. The missions were also very forgettable for me extract this guy listen in hear. It felt so repetitive at times I was like when is it going to get like the others. Yes, the gameplay like the movement is amazing gunplay etc but dam it's still bored me to the point I stopped playing it. I went back later to finish the game but the overall experience was negative.
I might replay it one day but for me its
MGS
MGS3
MGS2
MGS4
MGS5
yes cap
Roni
Member
Dacon
Banned
....
That does not at all confirm what you said as fact. Nor is it even applicable in this situation, since Venom isnt a silent protagonist.
Valonquar
Member
The story suffered a lot from too many side missions and distractions, leaving the narrative feeling very disjointed. The incompleteness of the ending was especially horrible knowing that there wouldn't ever be a real Kojima conclusion to it all. The fact that they included that video with the collectors edition showing what they were originally planing for the ending makes it worse.
ExpandKong
Banned
I feel like the idea of the “Snake meets Eva” scene is something that could’ve worked, but what we got was just...too much. Same for the Big Boss graveyard scene. No joke, after I beat the game the very first time I had to reload my last save and beat the game again because I fell asleep about halfway through the half hour Big Boss chunk of the ending. It started off with me all “holy shit omg” and ended with me waking up an hour later to the screen showing my unlocks.
I’m also not really sure what about MGSV adds to the graveyard scene in MGS4, but it’s been a minute since I played 4.
Why is it necessary for Big Boss to resent the Boss? His actions make just as much sense if he’s hopelessly devoted to his skewed perception of the Boss’s will (as MGS3 made him out to be) - and it can be argued he’s a more tragic figure that way.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
I just want to chime in and say how much I hate how Snake gets perma-bloody if he kills "too much".
Sneaking around and knocking people out with tranquilizer darts all game etc, sounds boring as fuck. Snake now always looks like he needs a bath ASAP, looks plain dumb in cut scenes and cant go into the field looking fresh (staying bloodless was a reminder of clean kills for me).
Killing is what makes this game fun. Being punished for having fun sucks. There should've been a way for players to disable this look.
Sneaking around and knocking people out with tranquilizer darts all game etc, sounds boring as fuck. Snake now always looks like he needs a bath ASAP, looks plain dumb in cut scenes and cant go into the field looking fresh (staying bloodless was a reminder of clean kills for me).
Killing is what makes this game fun. Being punished for having fun sucks. There should've been a way for players to disable this look.
KOMANI
KOMANI
it’s not permanent. You can do missions where you rescue children (if you rescue them by chopper, you removd demon points quicker) , you can visit thr animal conservation platform, or bond with a buddy to get back to normal. Or you can do the last mission on the first tab of combat deployment (it’s called rescue the refugee) and that should get rid of it on one shot.
Side note: i wished if you got a certain amount of heroism, you’d get “ash face snake” from mission 44. Just to balance the demon out.
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Roni
Member
I could fetch the individual interviews where Warren Spector, Will Wright and others talk specifically about this, but I assume you could look those up if you really wanted to find out about it.
And Venom is a Silent Protagonist whenever Kojima felt the player should insert himself into the situation. Which is why we have scenes like the car ride or why Snake talks so little when he meets Huey, etc...
You can read about it from the horse's mouth:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/mgs-5-the-phantom-pain-s-snake-won-t-talk-much-koj/1100-6425687/
You might have broken the first rule of that game...
Kidding aside...
Consider the scene...
The main connections are two fold: first, there's the statement that under certain conditions, one can be made to play the role of another. Which works not only for Ocelot, but for Venom. But the part I was truly referencing is Big Boss' words about Zero. How he doesn't really know whether he hated or feared him, and that it was too late to ask.
MGSV not only explains how they never had the chance to meet, but also contextualizes how Zero felt.
The fact was Zero neither feared nor hated Snake. They drifted apart because of a misunderstanding and because neither had the courage to go to the other. It's as I said in the OP: in MGSV, Zero is a character designed to be a character that encompasses the pain of hesitation. Snake and Zero hesitated to talk to each other after their disagreement and they missed their opportunity of making things right.
I don't think MGS3's Snake would establish a military nation and perpetuate the cycle of war. The Boss' goal in MGS3 was preventing further war. It was about ensuring peace. And in MGS3, Snake still believed in her, he was devastated that he was made to kill a hero.
Which is were Peace Walker comes in. And perhaps were Snake's character develops the most in the series: to cope with the fact that he killed the Boss, he warps his own perception of reality and, by the end of Peace Walker, decides to assume the Boss had betrayed him by seeking peace.
This is the true turn in the story, and how Snake decides to fight for the proliferation of war and violence. To oppose peace and the artificial unification Zero fought for with the Patriots.
This is further reinforced by the fact Big Boss states in the original video I referenced: "The Boss and I may have chosen different paths..."
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Hoya Destroyer
Member
I read about that, but it sounds like too much work.
Perma-blood sets in when you accumulate something like 50,000 points. You lose 300 for rescuing a kid. 60 for rescuing an injured opponent. 5000 for maxing out friendships and something similar for getting rid of nukes. I havent looked at that mission you mentioned yet.
Its not so bad now that I dont take Snake out on missions, but it was annoying as hell before I could use my own soldiers in the field. They have some nice out fits too
KyanMehwulfe
Member
The deployment mission is the far easier option. Still an endgame thing you won't access until much later; just means it's easy, in the sense of doing repetitive gameplay actions, compared to 'grinding' non-lethal or heroic gameplay actions. It requires something like 10 S+ Class Combat and Intel soldiers and takes just under 1 week to complete, but otherwise there's no real work involved. Really just depends on if you have the soldiers yet, which probably depends on whether you beat the game and have done a lot of Virtual League battles. If you got a lot Victory Points, you've probably got access to a lot of S+ soldiers now. This may or may not be the case I guess if you already reached 50K Demon Points, so it likely depends on how persistent you've been with doing the (Private Forces) PF daily and weekly battles and building PF Rank.
Do Make Say Think
Banned
Just found out about the various mods on PC.
I am re-downloading this beast of a game. I had tried doing a second run earlier this year but the grinding was just too damn insane, seems like there are a few mods that help with that and Infinite Heaven sounds sweet.
I am re-downloading this beast of a game. I had tried doing a second run earlier this year but the grinding was just too damn insane, seems like there are a few mods that help with that and Infinite Heaven sounds sweet.
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Roni
Member
I came to a point where I can only play this game on the PC. Too many great quality of life mods. I can't do without dropping my hip and back weapons. Can't stand playing with a huge rocket launcher on my back, or a undesired shield. I also use Horn removal for the character's avatar, symbol removal for bionic arms, chance of rain for Afghanistan and chance of fog for Africa, distant shadows, stone replacement for empty magazine and a switch for turning the Demon system after mission 46 is completed.
I used to have more, but the game updates break compatibility and fixing mods is work.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
The script was atrocious, and the plot could have been been the day dream of a 10 year old. Completely disagree with the OP - Kojima should quit writing the stories and scripts to his own games. Probably shouldn’t design the characters either.
Roni
Member
Thanks, you should definitely pick it up, it is an awesome game even if you hate the story. It was free with PSN a few months ago, so the price may be down.
Why was the plot so basic to you? The structure is different, but the content is actually really similar to old games.
Do Make Say Think
Banned
If you can, get it for PC.
If not still go for PS4, the game is really good despite everything. You just have to be a patient man because progression is very, very slow and those damn helicopter intros take forever.
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Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
I never said it was basic. It was convoluted for the sake of being convoluted. That’s basically Kojiimas schtick. He tried to develop depth with overwrought plot lines and needless exposition, but he’s really just exposing himself as an amateur. The guy should stick to designing video games and hire a professional writer next time.
I’ve only played two Metal gear solid games: this and the first one. You’re right that it really hasn’t changed.
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Roni
Member
Well I assumed a 10 year old would come up with something simple. But, fair enough, you never said it was basic. When you say you played the first one, do you mean Metal Gear or Metal Gear Solid?
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Do Make Say Think
Banned
What do you mean "it hasn't really changed" since MGS. MGS was 20 years ago (my god.....)
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Krappadizzle
Member
The repeated old criticism of it's a great game but a bad Metal Gear is still apt in my opinion. I won't bemoan anyone from enjoying it, to each their own, I've been with the series since the NES, but I didn't think it was a good story at all. It had a lot going for it and I love open world games, but it felt needlessly padded and full of fluff. The story started off strong and then fizzled into a wet fart.
Dacon
Banned
It's a concept, an idea, not something that can be demonstrably proven as fact.
Venom is not by any means a silent protagonist. He voices his opinion on several different occasions. The fact that he often doesnt say anything does not make him a silent protagonist.
If anything, he's a sometimes Silent Protagonist. Even then, that doesn't add any value to the fact that he is barely present in the game's plot as a character and a personality. He's the leader of mother base for crying out loud and he is the least outspoken person there, and often times finds himself following someone else's tune instead of his own. If it wasn't for the fact that the game tells you he's the boss and you have all of the gameplay stuff like base management and soldier deployment, I'd think Kaz was the leader.
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