DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Great standalone UHD players are cheap now. Would prefer one of them over the console playback of movies.
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Iced Arcade
Member
So they jack up the price of the X and release a more expensive series S lol
Celcius
°Temp. member
I would say if you care a lot about movies you wouldn’t want to be using the ps5 jet engine disk drive for movies
the_master
Member
Why do you conclude that? I don't think it is stated. If it is slim, I would assume digital only, of course.
All and all, I hope they make a complete redesign of the aesthetics
It spools up fast for disk installs but not so much for a movie.
Unknown?
Member
I understand but then you have two bulky devices. Also to take advantage of Dolby vision, don't you need a 12 bit TV? Do they even make 12 bit TVs?
killatopak
Gold Member
Just my thoughts on why people buy slim consoles. Slim versions usually accompany a price cut. A slim digital with the same price isn’t a big deal for ordinary consumers. They pay more attention to price. The OP never stated any of them going below the price of digital so my conclusion is that the physical version will get the slim treatment.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
It makes sense to make the console come without a disc drive. As long as the option is there to get one.
As it stands, the PS5S is rumored to be a disc-driveless console designed to accept a disc drive `cart` of sorts. let those that just want to buy a game console get it, and those that want a disc drive pay extra. Why should everyone be made to pay for something that currently around 45% of the user base no longer even uses?
If ever there was something in a console that should have been optioned out, it's the disc drive.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Probably shouldn't tell you that HDr movies are actually mastered at 4000nits...
Nope. Sony doesn't have a problem selling console yet. Having two separate SKUs on the market for the same product can be tedious though. So it makes sense to make just one SKU.
But they also want people to be digital only (they make more money off a digital customer than a physical one), and they can't make only a digital SKU, but the physical SKU costs more to make. So the best thing to do, is make a Digital SKU that can be user upgraded to be a physical SKU.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
How are they releasing a slim?? If they remove the drive It will be smaller yes.
But the APU is still made in the 6nm process. The Pro will be made in 4nm.
It's smaller yeah but I doubt most people will really call it a slim.
But the APU is still made in the 6nm process. The Pro will be made in 4nm.
It's smaller yeah but I doubt most people will really call it a slim.
Celcius
°Temp. member
That hasn’t been my experience with UHD disks lol
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
killatopak
Gold Member
Maybe you’re wrong. Maybe you’re right. I simply stated why I had come to that conclusion.
We have never dealt with a generation with 2 SKUs at the start nor did we have ever had a digital console. All of these are new grounds. My thinking was based on whatever came before it. Everything from my point of view is just speculation.
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MS had the Xbox Arcade 360. It wasnt all digital but it didnt come with a hard drive. It had a 256MB memory card.
And then there's the One S All Digital... the SAD for short, lol.
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LordOfChaos
Member
It would be going slim for having a true generation die shrink to work with (6nm was just a minor iteration on 7), it should take less power and previous slims have been quieter, not louder.
//DEVIL//
Member
I am sorry but what ? Xbox series x is perfect . Doesn't need anything smaller and highly doubt they can make it smaller even with smaller NM. Not anytime soon that is for sure.Where’s my Series X slim MS?
01011001
Banned
before the 360 Arcade there was the 360 Core, which didn't even come with a memory card.
and the Core came with a wired controller instead of a wireless one.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
I'm expecting $500, with a $100 disc drive attachment that won't work with the launch DE. Sony will justify it with a 1tb SSD, and a bullshit line about how miniaturizing the hardware costs more.
I'll be happy to eat crow on this, because I want a shit-ton of used PS5s hitting the second hand market so I can pick on up on the cheap, but Sony's been on a, "Fuck you, pay me," kick this whole gen.
I'll be happy to eat crow on this, because I want a shit-ton of used PS5s hitting the second hand market so I can pick on up on the cheap, but Sony's been on a, "Fuck you, pay me," kick this whole gen.
SmokSmog
Member
PS5 7nm 308mm2 230W peak
PS5 6nm 260mm2~ 210W peak
PS5 Slim N5 or N4 TSMC 150mm2 or less 100-120W peak ?
Smaller APU = more chips per wafer = cheaper price per chip even if the wafer is more expensive
Smaller APU = less power = less heat = smaller cooling = less power stages on the mobo = smaller cheaper power supply
Smaller and lighter case/ package = smaller box = more boxes per shipping container = cheaper logistics.
Savings everywhere.
PS5 6nm 260mm2~ 210W peak
PS5 Slim N5 or N4 TSMC 150mm2 or less 100-120W peak ?
Smaller APU = more chips per wafer = cheaper price per chip even if the wafer is more expensive
Smaller APU = less power = less heat = smaller cooling = less power stages on the mobo = smaller cheaper power supply
Smaller and lighter case/ package = smaller box = more boxes per shipping container = cheaper logistics.
Savings everywhere.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
There won't be a 1TB Version. For the last time It's 825 Gigabyte. The next step forward would be the doubled size which will be 1,650TB.
crackajack
Member
Of course it could be smaller. The PS5 is already needlessly big after the marginal 6nm shrink and they could have already made the housing differently. MS is the same. If either would be so inclined to pay for it, for a 5, 4nm or even lower node, it would most definitely allow for much smaller coolers and housings.
Personally the box design is perfect in its form, but it's too big for a console. I very much hope the final main consoles are as big as the XSS (which should shrink accordingly as well).
Making a 1TB version would be trivial and cheaper than what they have now. They would just need to commission a new 8-channel SSD controller reducing it down from the current 12-channel controller and use faster NAND chips to compensate which wouldn't be much of an issue given how slow the PS5 NAND chips were even at launch. A modern 8-channel SSD on PC (e.g. 980 Pro) is already way in excess of PS5 SSD performance at lower BOM and board complexity.
the_master
Member
I see.
In this case I thought that the price cut would not hapen as it is too early to have significant build costs, if anything, a price raise to have the same but smaller, which they would not do.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The SSD would have to be 1.65TB due to their 12 channel I/O setup, I believe.
I bet it will be the same 825GB at the same $400 since upgrading with an internal SSD is affordable on the open market.
Eventually Microsoft allowed for games that required a memory card and then hard drive I think.
PS3 20/60, XBox 360/Core. Both launched with 2 SKUs out of the gate.
The one thing we never had was launching multiple SKUs with completely different chipset AND ram configuration that still got sold as the same 'generation'.
Also had two - PSP Go and SAD.
The market didn't love them - but one was more expensive than Disc enabled counterpart, and the other came super late to a console that already almost noone wanted, and neither had a disc-upgrade option on the shelf.
killatopak
Gold Member
I stand corrected. That was ignorant of me. Thank you as well for the additional information. That was enlightening.
Maybe they just want to differentiate it from another SKU that was rumored? The Pro version. IIRC the same thing happened last gen. Price was lowered then the Pro launched on the original price of the base version. Sony did increase the price of the PS5 after release so you never really know.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
The sooner people realize the PS5S is just a revised PS5DE the better. It will be A PS5 digital SKU, and will have the same 825GB SSD.
The only difference will be, a smaller APU (probably because it's on an N5 node, a smaller PSU, smaller cooling hardware, smaller chassis, and the inclusion of some sort of proprietary connector to accept the proprietary disc drive `cart` that you would buy separately if you want to use physical media. And all that will bring them in at a BOM at or under $399. So they either would be selling it at a break-even price or even making a profit at an MSRP of $399.
They don't have to do anymore or less than this. They don't need to care what the SSD size is, because they are using a non-proprietary SSD expansion spec and know whoever wants more storage can easily just go out and buy what they want.
I also expect that disc drive attachment/cart (I prefer calling it that because I believe in practice it would work just like sotting a cartridge into a NES or something) to cost $100.
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Banjo64
cumsessed
The BOM will be better for Sony, and the shipping costs will decrease also.
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Torrent of Pork
Banned
Oh I agree entirely, my point isn't about Sony's costs, but what they think they can get away with in terms of price.
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01011001
Banned
Football Manager was a launch window game that required a hard drive. they always allowed it, bout it took a long time until developers actually made games that needed one.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
oh ok.. Well, I feel that their hands are kinda tied on the pricing front. This is because they intend on selling the disc drive cart as a separate peripheral. That kinda dictates the course of everything else.
It means the console, is in effect a PS5 digital sku. This means it can't be sold for anything more than the existing digital sku. So $399. They also can't make the combination of the console and the disc drive cost more than the current PS5 physical sku. So the disc drive cant cost more than $100.
But a disc drive attachment won't cost Sony $100. Its BOM, including packaging and shipping, would probably come in at under $40. Especially when you consider that you can get a USB C external Blu-ray drive for $70 on Amazon. So Sony would be making an easy $50 profit on a $100 disc attachment for the PS5.
There is no reason for them to push the price, and there is no way they can do it without looking sus... Even at $399, they would be making something of the PS5 console, and then making a lot more off a disc drive bought.
kazuyamishima
Member
stores in Spain, Italy and France are having discount for the PS5 in one or another way.
Australia has been having discounts for the standalone model for the last few weeks.
Sony did the same before the PS4 slim launched, maybe they are doing the same, but it seems they will try to push hard to ship the desired 25M PS5’s this calendar year.
Australia has been having discounts for the standalone model for the last few weeks.
Sony did the same before the PS4 slim launched, maybe they are doing the same, but it seems they will try to push hard to ship the desired 25M PS5’s this calendar year.
Sony have sold over 40 million units at $400-$500 (and more in rest of world). They need to get the price of entry down to really accelerate sales. $349/$449 pricing should allow 25+million annual sales.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I thinks too cheap.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
The price is never determined by the cost, but by what the customer is willing to pay.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Not when it comes to consoles. Especially when you consider that with consoles, the console...is just to get you into the ecosystem.
If these platform holders could give them away for free they would.
How else would you explain consoles being sold at a loss?
//DEVIL//
Member
To put it in perspective. PS5 Slim will be the size of the Xbox series X + or - a few an inch or two.
Xbox Series X is someone who really wanted to push the ITX so hard it's honestly an engineering marvel. Yet it's even quieter than my PS5 ( which is already quiet thank god ).
I do not think we will ever see a Series X in a smaller form factor. Maybe Series X Pro? but not a smaller design series X.
as far as PS5 Slim goes, I will wait and see the noise and the heat level compared to the fat PS55. I am not going to sacrifice noise for a smaller form factor. Sony has been shady lately and they want to cut costs. I do not trust them that much.
BUT if the PS5 slim is as quite or better than my current PS5 with same heat or less, I am in.
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Torrent of Pork
Banned
Do you honestly believe that anybody in this (any) industry isn't charging the most they think they possibly can before the intersection of the demand and supply curve leads them to less profit?
I'll say again, I want a $200 PS5 to show up in my local pawn shop. I want Sony to cut the price, I just don't think they will.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I am lost. This is not a new concept by any means.
At least 2 of the three console platform holders use a loss-leading business model. Makes no sense to compare it to any other industry. Outside Nintendo, Sony and MS have never led with a sales-for-profit console model. They always sold at a loss, and then over time get their bOM down, and rather than just sit on the increased hardware profits, they would drop the prices of their hardware... rinse and repeat.
Sony charging $399, for something that cost them $370 (an example) to make, would be them charging the most they feel they could. But that's because demand is at a good pace considering supply, and if they were to drop the price to say $299, they simply wouldn't be able to make enough console to meet that demand anyways. they, will likey remain at that $399 price for as long as doing so keeps tracking at around 18M+ sales a year. If they start tracking below that, they drop prices.
I would have thought this kinda stuff was general knowledge here.
Guess you don't know that they are about the same size... 447 cubic inches(PS5) vs 432 cubic inches (XSX). The PS5 is less than 4% bigger than the Series X. Funny how shapes can make things look bigger or smaller than they actually are huh?
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I could see them doing spiderman 2 bundles at $400 and $500, maintain current pricing but deliver additional value.
There's plenty of TVs that support Dolby vision. Works great on my LG OLED. The display will map the content based on it's capabilities. With the ub820 I can set the display type and it will adjust the tone mapping appropriately (OLED, three types of lcd/projector). Downside is the smart apps are pretty crap but for straight disk playback works well.
Roman Empire
Member
Wasn't TSMC and Samsung aiming for a 2025 2nm chip production? Not that it can't be moved to 2026 though.5nm is still possible.
3nm may not reduce the cost of the PS5.
