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[jimbo]

360 isn't doing a great job in Europe that's a fact and that's why MS don't give numbers don't you remember what Reggie said:
"360 is selling well only in one country: UK. Across the rest of Europe, it is not performing well."
and even MS PR didn't say he was wrong, actually they said:
"[we are] very happy with how Xbox 360 is performing in Europe. We do not release figures by country, but we are on target to meet our goal of 12 million consoles sold worldwide by the end of June 2007"
And this was after GOW with zero competition in the next gen area I don't see how the 360 will do a better job this Christmas with the PS3 and Wii on the shelves.

Ok I think I can follow you.

So Nintendo said that its competitor was only doing well in the UK. And then MS responded by saying they are happy with how it's performing in Europe. These two statements, that not only are vague, meaningless, PR nosnese is how you concluded the "fact" that the 360 is not doing a "great job", another meaningless term to measure sales in Europe, a market that we have no actual sales data to be able to do any kind of comparisons.........did I get everything?

 

[Shaheed79]

Do you guys do math?

For wii to catch x360, given a 3m gap, the wii needs to outsell the x360 by nearly 400k EVERY MONTH until end of December, worldwide. That's to draw equal.

Now, that is absolutely do-able. To do so the Wii has to cover 200k in Japan, 100k in US and 100k in Europe every MONTH WITHOUT MISSING A BEAT.

This also assumes -- no system sellers, no price drops, and no large discrepancy between the differences in # of consoles sold over the holidays.

Umm arne..........its already doing that. That gap will only increase as more manufacturers are contracted not decrease.

 

[Shaheed79]

Lets put it like this Arne. Nintendo is selling damn near every freaking piece of duck-taped gamecube they put out there which is right now around 1 million a month. While 360 is finding a hard time putting even 500k systems in homes every month. How do I know this? Because their strongest territory is the U.S. and they can only manage between 230-280k there. So that leaves Europe and Japan. Ok so that just leaves Europe now. Lets say that Europe manages to equal half of 360's total sales which we know it isn't that means that they only manage about 500k 360's a month to Wii's 1million. This doesn't even take into account the fact that we still don't know how many Wii's a month Nintendo really can sell when they finally do meet demand with sufficient supply. Do you see where I'm going with this? Nintendo will be able to brag about being the market leader by January next year barring some unforseen disaster (Wii's giving cancer).

 

[Lagaff]

This thread was not Nintendo vs Microsoft.
Let it die it was really painfull to read.

 

[E-phonk]

So Nintendo said that its competitor was only doing well in the UK. And then MS responded by saying they are happy with how it's performing in Europe. These two statements, that not only are vague, meaningless, PR nosnese is how you concluded the "fact" that the 360 is not doing a "great job", another meaningless term to measure sales in Europe, a market that we have no actual sales data to be able to do any kind of comparisons.........did I get everything?

We know Nintendo claims to have an installebase of +/- 2 million in Europe.

How much of the X360 sales do we know come from North America (USA+Canada)? It's at 500k in japan so 9.5 - 0.5 - NA/CAN = europe (+ some minor territories that we never really count).

 

[Sean*O]

Death throes (and not of Microsoft.)

 

[FightyF]

Lets put it like this Arne. Nintendo is selling damn near every freaking piece of duck-taped gamecube they put out there which is right now around 1 million a month. While 360 is finding a hard time putting even 500k systems in homes every month. How do I know this? Because their strongest territory is the U.S. and they can only manage between 230-280k there. So that leaves Europe and Japan. Ok so that just leaves Europe now. Lets say that Europe manages to equal half of 360's total sales which we know it isn't that means that they only manage about 500k 360's a month to Wii's 1million. This doesn't even take into account the fact that we still don't know how many Wii's a month Nintendo really can sell when they finally do meet demand with sufficient supply. Do you see where I'm going with this? Nintendo will be able to brag about being the market leader by January next year barring some unforseen disaster (Wii's giving cancer).

You are forgetting that the 360 may very well hit a mass market price, and sales will spike up as a result. PSP's price drop into a mass market price has done wonders for it. It's possible that the same could occur to the 360, which isn't too far-fetched considering it's strong game lineup.

With a Core 360 at $250 (or $199) versus a Wii at possibly at $199 (or $150)...how will the Wii fare? Especially when considering the Fall game lineup this year...GTA4 + Halo 3 is a pretty powerful combo.

What has helped the Wii is the perception that the other next gen consoles are unaffordable. That is going to change this Fall, and especially in the Fall of 2008.

Another thing you have to consider is that MS should be more worried about the PS3 being the #1 console, rather than the Wii. If the Wii is #1, it may result in more focus on the Wii on the part of developers, but they will not necessarily abandon the 360 at the same time. Whereas if the PS3 is #1, developers may be more tempted to focus on the PS3 instead (as they know that the PS3 is a long term console, it would make sense that if it is #1 this Fall, to stick with it and to never look back). This is akin to developers dropping GameCube support to focus on the Xbox.

 

[StevieP]

Are you people suggesting that the PRICE of all things is what's "rising Nintendo to heaven"? :lol

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

There are a lot of leaps of faith by posters in this thread.

 

[starship]

you and nightstick11 are one and the same. at least pimpwerx is reasonable with his posts.

at least i'm being reasonable despite my both paid for and personal bias by saying the wii outselling the x360 could happen this year. i believe it's challenging for that to happen no matter how you look at it to be frank. I think 2008 is the year of "the race" for all the consoles.


and with not considering holiday says, you didn't consider any possible bump x2 for Halo 3, or Forza, or GTAIV or, or, or, or. and I didn't consider super mario galaxy, or, or or.

the point is there's too many variables to determine what sales will actually be nov and dec.

Which one do you honestly think will sell better during holiday season?
Wii with its mass market price point, huge momentum, lots of media coverage, etc. or 360 with 400 - 480 dollars price point?
As I said I can only see that during holiday season people rush to buy the Wii and it'll sell a lot more than 360 during that period.
Anyway, I don't think you were not honest in this case because of your bias. You believe it's challenging for the Wii and I don't, so let's wait and see what happens at the end of the year.

 

[mabuza]

console wars. serious buisness

 

[antiloop]

*insert Xboat_sinking.gif here*

I guess Wii won this generation. But it still doesn't have any good games but Zelda IMO. :/

 

[spwolf]

i am first to jump on MS, but witards need some cooling off time.

Whatever the public shipping info is, industry analysts and game companies do have correct sales info which they get by purchasing it from tracking companies, so please stop the stupidness. 360 is doing fine...

 

[Ash Sparrow]

I think a 360 price drop puts it over Wii in monthly sells or close enough to maintain its lead much longer.

 

[gkryhewy]

Even the PS3 looks set to pass the 360 this year

Please.

 

[Shompola]

360 needs a price cut. 100USD preferably, then I can buy one and it wll probably start to outsell the Wii in NA atleast.

 

[Shiggy]

I think a 360 price drop puts it over Wii in monthly sells or close enough to maintain its lead much longer.

Isn't the X360 already cheaper than Wii? At least in Germany, it is, although that might've been temporary.

 

[starship]

360 needs a price cut. 100USD preferably, then I can buy one and it wll probably start to outsell the Wii in NA atleast.

Do you think Nintendo won't cut the price of the Wii when Microsoft cuts the price of 360?
When the Wii hits $200 price point, it'll sell huge.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Do you think Nintendo won't cut the price of the Wii when Microsoft cuts the price of 360?
When the Wii hits $200 price point, it'll sell huge.

No, Nintendo is the most resistant to change in pricing. Now that Sony has gotten rid of the 20GB here, Microsoft should actively look to drop the price. If the Wii continues on it's path,to try to hold the lead, it will have no choice.

 

[pswii60]

Isn't the X360 already cheaper than Wii? At least in Germany, it is, although that might've been temporary.

You can get the Core for cheaper than a Wii, but when people think of buying a 360, they generally think of buying the Premium.

MS just don't have enough games out right now to appeal to enough different markets. All this will gradually change over the next 6 months however, with racing games (forza), JRPGs (BD, LO, ES), PLatformers (Banjo), sci-fi-RPG (ME), epics like Too Human and of course the game which will tip the old xbox fans over the edge, halo 3.

 

[Scotch]

GC sold more worldwide.

No, it didn't. And GC is never gonna catch up either, as the difference is still roughly 2 million units.

 

[milanbaros]

I don't see xbox360 sales as bad at all. I don't see why Microsoft would need to inflate them. The 360 has managed to hold onto its price in the US for 17 months and is 2x what the original was at that time and is now starting to outpace it.

If the xbox360 can do well in the US I think it will be ok. It looks doomed in its ambition for world no. 1 but should sell 50% more than the original. Whats wrong withthat?

 

[Boerseun]

No one knows whether Gamecube or Xbox sold more. Trustworthy sales figures for the latter was never available, while Gamecube is still selling.

I guess Wii won this generation. But it still doesn't have any good games but Zelda IMO. :/

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Let me guess: they are the numbers from VGcharts?

3.1 million + 6.6 million = 9.7 million

 

[jimbo]

Wow this thread kept going all night? Don't you guys sleep?

 

[jrricky]

if xbox 360 is at <10 mil at this point it is sad (I dont know, i dont keep up with xbox sales) cause if, like someone says, 400k a month until december, that would be about 2800000 mil sales. Include another 1 to 2 mil for Halo (for what reason i cant get because anyone who i think wants Halo would have bought the system already) and some other games and that leaves it to bout 14-15 million in sales. Whoever got to this total before was generally right then.

NOw take in the wii... Uh, forget it. Many people have said it already in what wii would sell and they didnt even factor in the big guns(i dont know why noone argued this since they were throwing in Halo and all the sh**).

One more thing, did anyone factor in DQS when they were talking about these hardware sales for Wii? Yup, that bomb is launching in less than 3 months..and counting down.

 

[Safe Bet]

A multi-billion, multi-international, corporation use questionable accounting practices to mislead both consumers and investors?

NO WAY!!!!

 

[Neo C.]

Do you think Nintendo won't cut the price of the Wii when Microsoft cuts the price of 360?
When the Wii hits $200 price point, it'll sell huge.

To be fair, Nintendo's goal isn't to catch up the 360 in 2007 but making good profit with their consoles. Even if Microsoft cut the price, Nintendo will still sell the Wii for 250$ except the demand is decreasing. And you know that the demand will stay high for a long time.

 

[Joe211]

Ok I think I can follow you.

So Nintendo said that its competitor was only doing well in the UK. And then MS responded by saying they are happy with how it's performing in Europe. These two statements, that not only are vague, meaningless, PR nosnese is how you concluded the "fact" that the 360 is not doing a "great job", another meaningless term to measure sales in Europe, a market that we have no actual sales data to be able to do any kind of comparisons.........did I get everything?

Hey don't blame me you should blame MS for this cause as far as I know Europe is not a country, so at least we should have sales numbers by region.

We do not release figures by country

 

[cedric69]

Include another 1 to 2 mil for Halo (for what reason i cant get because anyone who i think wants Halo would have bought the system already)

This is not the first time I read a statement like this, and I really wonder about the reasoning behind it.

Why should all Halo fans have already bought a 360 when:

a) They didn't know a release date but knew it wasn't close (speaking since 360 launch).
b) Considering (a) they could well hope for a price drop before getting the console *and* the killer application they were waiting for.

After all... (b) might well happen.

 

[plagiarize]

This is not the first time I read a statement like this, and I really wonder about the reasoning behind it.

Why should all Halo fans have already bought a 360 when:

a) They didn't know a release date but knew it wasn't close (speaking since 360 launch).
b) Considering (a) they could well hope for a price drop before getting the console *and* the killer application they were waiting for.

After all... (b) might well happen.

just look at what happened to xbox sales when halo 2 came out, and that was when the system had already had a halo game on it.

anyone saying 'surely everyone who wants halo 3 has already bought the system' is ignoring history.

people made the same predictions before halo 2 came out.

 

[squatingyeti]

PS3 performance WorldWide until it drops in price = WAH WAH WAH WAH.

fixed that for you.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Man that sure was some interesting reading.

I had no idea the 360 had sold just 5 Million by October. No way they sold 10 Million in 2006.

 

[FightyF]

Are you people suggesting that the PRICE of all things is what's "rising Nintendo to heaven"? :lol

No.

I'm saying that when reducing the price, the 360 will sell a whole lot more. Coupled with the fact that it has a better game library than the Wii, and offers more in the way of being a home entertainment Hub, it could easily exceed the Wii's monthly performance by a large margin during 2008 and 2009.

We all know that many gamers were disgruntled when they heard that "next gen" is going to cost $400+.

When that changes, many gamers will be on board.

 

[starship]

To be fair, Nintendo's goal isn't to catch up the 360 in 2007 but making good profit with their consoles. Even if Microsoft cut the price, Nintendo will still sell the Wii for 250$ except the demand is decreasing. And you know that the demand will stay high for a long time.

Nintendo was making good profit with selling Wii hardware even in 2006. I think they can easily cut the price of the Wii to $200 at the end of the year and still make shitload of profit from selling hardware.

 

[Beer Monkey]

If I were buying a 360 for Halo 3, I'd wait until just before the game came out, so that I could get the system at the lowest possible price. I have a friend who is doing just that.

I don't think most people who want Halo 3 have a 360 any more than I think that most people who want MGS4 have picked up a PS3.

And many who want 'game x' may still wait until these new systems hit $249, $199, $179, etc. Not all fans of any give franchise are those who like to pay non-mainstream hardware prices.

 

[Shiggy]

Nintendo was making good profit with selling Wii hardware even in 2006. I think they can easily cut the price of the Wii to $200 at the end of the year and still make shitload of profit from selling hardware.

I don't think there's the need to do this, just look at the DS

 

[Stinkles]

If I were buying a 360 for Halo 3, I'd wait until just before the game came out, so that I could get the system at the lowest possible price. I have a friend who is doing just that.

I don't think most people who want Halo 3 have a 360 any more than I think that most people who want MGS4 have picked up a PS3..

Your friend is a jerk. Tell him I am adding a Beta-dependent Achievemnt to force his hand! Also, Beermonkey, I will personally add you to the Bungie friends and family beta if you bite the bullet now. One time offer, driven by bias and hatred.

 

[maxmars]

Your friend is a jerk. Tell him I am adding a Beta-dependent Achievemnt to force his hand!

What about less defective hardware, that would be a much better incentive. Achievement, even.

Come on guys, the hardware has historically been your best stuff (still using PC wheel & flight sticks), turn the 360 into a robust box.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

jimbo, as usual you're delusional about the reality.

The Wii made 2/3 of the Xbox 360's userbase in four months. As in, they went from 0-->6.5 million in four months. Xbox 360 had a 12-month headstart. You reaaallllyyy don't see where this is trending?

Let's review the facts.

Xbox 360 is only selling in 2 markets. Scratch Japan out because they aren't even competing there. Even then, it isn't selling exceptionally well in NA and Europe.

Wii is outselling it in all 3 markets at a rapid pace. And it is supply-constrained. Once production gets rolling, Wii will do higher than the 1+million a month it is currently doing.

By January 1 2008, Wii will probably have a larger userbase than Xbox360+PS3 combined.

I was agreeing with you until the end.
There's absolutely no way the Wii outsells the combined LTD of the PS3 and 360 by Jan. 1 2008.

But maybe 1/1/09

 

[Nightstick11]

just about a stealthy as nightstick11's brand of choice

Arne, you make it sound as if I should be ashamed of my beliefs. I've articulated them enough so that people should be able to at least understand them, and I've never hidden them either. What, only Xbox 360 supporters are logical now or something? :lol

By the way, a search should show up some threads where I was attacked by Nintendo fanboys for being a Sony-bot. So which is it, am I a Wiitard or a Sonybot? :lol

You make it sound as if that's insignificant when in reality the 360 will be close to that number WITHOUT a HALO by the time Halo 3 comes out at a price of $399 with more than a year gone by without price drops. Now I'm not going to tell you that Halo 3 will boost the user base by 20 million but if you believe that Halo 3 will not significantly boost the 360's user base, and you're relying on the old, "whoever is interested in Halo already bought a 360" line of thought, you're in for a rude awakening.

This is really the only relevant thing you said. Halo 3 IS insignificant in terms of pushing hardware. It's not going to magically move 5 million hardware units if that is what you are thinking. The underlined portion is just a wild inference that came out of nowhere. How many 360s do you think Halo 3 is going to push? 1 million? 2 million? 3 million?

Were you not around for the previous two generations? Halo is about as much of a system pusher as Mario, which is to say it pushes some systems, but it doesn't cause this huge ass permanent spike in hardware sales.

Maybe I am dillusional, but my brain just doesn't understand how it's "reasonable" to say that the Wii will continue to sell over 1 million a month without missing a beat for the rest of the year while at the same time saying those things I stated above won't have an effect on 360 sales.

I guess GTA fans, Halo fans, DMC4 fans, VF fans, etc etc just simply lost interest in playing their favorite franchises now that the Wii is out. They will all stop buying consoles that offer those games and stick with the Wii. Sorry, but that's just retarded to me.

I'm going to spell it out again for you and Arne because there's a crucial fact you two both seem to dismiss.

Wii went from 0-->6+ million in 4 or so months. As in, it achieved 2/3 of the 360's installed base in a 4th of the time.

Do you two reaaaalllyyy believe the Wii is going to have trouble outselling the 360 by 333,333 units a month? I mean, REALLY? Like drop the defensive Xbot-shield for a bit and think about this logically.

Jimbo, you are assuming that the Wii is going to stay fixed at 1 million a month. Once Nintendo finds another manufacturer, there is a chance that it will do better than that. By the way, DMC4 and VF do nothing for your cause because they're not system movers. The only game you mentioned that has the potential to be a BIG system mover is GTA 4, but who knows how that will play out.

 

[the thoroughbred]

no shit. i think everyone knows that.

microsoft sold that many to retailers, not sold through to customers. that's all they needed to do, iirc.

Yeah, I thought this was common knowledge here on GAF. But what I was to ingorant to analyse was, how does this match up with NPD number? NPD is what is sold to the customer right? So buy adding each month up we should have a total.

I guess we never get numbers for Europe, so that's where Micro$oft can create the discrepancies. Some discussion on this please. I remember last year Sony kept doing this with PSP, and its UMD movies and stuff, but it never got past GAF. It was constantly hot topic here, wasn't it?

 

[jimbo]

Arne, you make it sound as if I should be ashamed of my beliefs. I've articulated them enough so that people should be able to at least understand them, and I've never hidden them either. What, only Xbox 360 supporters are logical now or something? :lol

By the way, a search should show up some threads where I was attacked by Nintendo fanboys for being a Sony-bot. So which is it, am I a Wiitard or a Sonybot? :lol



This is really the only relevant thing you said. Halo 3 IS insignificant in terms of pushing hardware. It's not going to magically move 5 million hardware units if that is what you are thinking. The underlined portion is just a wild inference that came out of nowhere. How many 360s do you think Halo 3 is going to push? 1 million? 2 million? 3 million?

Were you not around for the previous two generations? Halo is about as much of a system pusher as Mario, which is to say it pushes some systems, but it doesn't cause this huge ass permanent spike in hardware sales.






I'm going to spell it out again for you and Arne because there's a crucial fact you two both seem to dismiss.

Wii went from 0-->6+ million in 4 or so months. As in, it achieved 2/3 of the 360's installed base in a 4th of the time.

Do you two reaaaalllyyy believe the Wii is going to have trouble outselling the 360 by 333,333 units a month? I mean, REALLY? Like drop the defensive Xbot-shield for a bit and think about this logically.

Jimbo, you are assuming that the Wii is going to stay fixed at 1 million a month. Once Nintendo finds another manufacturer, there is a chance that it will do better than that. By the way, DMC4 and VF do nothing for your cause because they're not system movers. The only game you mentioned that has the potential to be a BIG system mover is GTA 4, but who knows how that will play out.

So now GTA MIGHT be a system mover?

Excuse me for one second: :lol :lol :lol

Ok Sorry. Back now.

You know you certainly make a lot of sense. Games like, GTA, VF, DMC, BD, will not do anything to move systems for the 360 (just like those people who said Halo and GOW would not move systems either).


So in that case if the most popular games in the industry do not move videogame consoles, what does? What exactly on the Wii is going to continue to move over 1 million units a months for the rest of the year? You think it's going to reach PS2 like success based on Waggle alone? Do you honestly believe that if the Wii becomes the success you describe it's going to get there WITHOUT games? You think it's going to get there WITHOUT games like the ones I listed above?

 

[squatingyeti]

If everyone still wants to talk about MS stuffing the lines, what the hell has Sony done in Japan? They haven't needed to ship a SINGLE console their since they shipped 1M. That was how many months ago? Hell, it doesn't look like they're going to need to ship to 1.2M for like 4 more months. However, you all would probably try to argue they haven't shipped any systems in Japan since the 1M :lol .

 

[Nightstick11]

So now GTA MIGHT be a system mover?

Reading comprehension a little lacking? How the hell did you get "GTA MIGHT be a system mover" from

The only game you mentioned that has the potential to be a BIG system mover is GTA 4, but who knows how that will play out.

??

On the same note, why the hell are you talking about "will not do anything to move systems" like in here:

You know you certainly make a lot of sense. Games like, GTA, VF, DMC, BD, will not do anything to move systems for the 360 (just like those people who said Halo and GOW would not move systems either).

We're not talking about whether these games are or aren't selling systems. Re-read my posts. We're talking about whether these games will sell ENOUGH systems to offset the breakneck speed with which the Wii is catching the 360. The only game with the potential to move a significant amount of systems is GTA.

Try to keep up, jimbo.

So in that case if the most popular games in the industry do not move videogame consoles, what does? What exactly on the Wii is going to continue to move over 1 million units a months for the rest of the year? You think it's going to reach PS2 like success based on Waggle alone? Do you honestly believe that if the Wii becomes the success you describe it's going to get there WITHOUT games? You think it's going to get there WITHOUT games like the ones I listed above?

Like I said, DMC and VF are not among "the most popular games in the industry".
What exactly on the Wii is going to move over 1 million units a month, you say.

Hmm... Zelda moved it pretty well. I'm guessing Nintendo first-party games are going to move it pretty damn well. In case you've been living under a rock the past couple years, Nintendo has done a good job of building respectable userbases. The N64 and the DS come to mind if you're having trouble connecting the dots. In case you've been living under a rock the past couple months, the Wii has some pretty good games.

Nowhere did I say that the Wiimote alone is going to propel it to PS2 status. But considering that Zelda and WiiSports seem to be more effective system-movers than anything the 360 ever had, it's safe to say that DMC and VF are irrelevant to a system's success.

 

[the thoroughbred]

No one knows whether Gamecube or Xbox sold more. Trustworthy sales figures for the latter was never available, while Gamecube is still selling.

I don't think this matters though. From what I have read at a numerous amount of publicly avalaible sources the GC is around 21mil, and the XBOX 24mil. But as I said none of that matters because Nintendo not only sold around twice the amount of total software, there hardware was always profitable unlike Micrsofts. Plus the majority of profits come from software sales. Nintendo also had GBA running and creating huge amounts of profits. So all in all Nintendo won that battle. And you could argue that my Nintardness is getting the better of me, as there was no need for me to include the GBA in this point, and you'd be right in that.

For the compromise of a petty 3 million hardware units, nobody with a little logic and information can say that round was won by Microsoft, who every year has been making loses.

 

[jimbo]

Reading comprehension a little lacking? How the hell did you get "GTA MIGHT be a system mover" from ??

On the same note, why the hell are you talking about "will not do anything to move systems" like in here:


We're not talking about whether these games are or aren't selling systems. Re-read my posts. We're talking about whether these games will sell ENOUGH systems to offset the breakneck speed with which the Wii is catching the 360. The only game with the potential to move a significant amount of systems is GTA.

Try to keep up, jimbo.






Like I said, DMC and VF are not among "the most popular games in the industry".
What exactly on the Wii is going to move over 1 million units a month, you say.

Hmm... Zelda moved it pretty well. I'm guessing Nintendo first-party games are going to move it pretty damn well. In case you've been living under a rock the past couple years, Nintendo has done a good job of building respectable userbases. The N64 and the DS come to mind if you're having trouble connecting the dots. In case you've been living under a rock the past couple months, the Wii has some pretty good games.

Nowhere did I say that the Wiimote alone is going to propel it to PS2 status. But considering that Zelda and WiiSports seem to be more effective system-movers than anything the 360 ever had, it's safe to say that DMC and VF are irrelevant to a system's success.

Here let me point out your own words which seems like even you have a problem understanding.

The only game you mentioned that has the potential to be a BIG system mover is GTA 4, but who knows how that will play out.

And I don't think anyone here's arguing against the Wii getting a respectable user base, but for the past 2 generation Nintendo games, like Zelda, like Mario, have not been enough to propel Nintendo consoles to the top. This fact will not change. The Wii will need PS2-like third party support to reach PS2-like levels.

As for the last bolded part, I like how you threw in Wii Sports with Zelda. Smart.

 

[Shiggy]

The Wii will need PS2-like third party support to reach PS2-like levels.

Actually, they don't. They just need massmarket-attractive games, Wii Sports was a start.

 

[Nightstick11]

Here let me point out your own words which seems like even you have a problem understanding.

I am going to ask you again HOW you got "GTA MIGHT be a system mover" from the sentence in question.

The only game you mentioned that has the potential to be a BIG system mover is GTA 4, but who knows how that will play out.

Who knows how many systems it will move? It was a huge system pusher on the PS2, but now it's split between two userbases. Either way, nowhere did I say GTA MIGHT be a system mover. Really, now, jimbo-y.

And I don't think anyone here's arguing against the Wii getting a respectable user base, but for the past 2 generation Nintendo games, like Zelda, like Mario, have not been enough to propel Nintendo consoles to the top. This fact will not change. The Wii will need PS2-like third party support to reach PS2-like levels.

:lol so how does this indicate that the 360 will be on top?

The DS is tops, by far. The N64 garnered 35+million piggybacking off Nintendo 1st-party titles. This indicates that Nintendo 1st-party titles are the single greatest system-pushers.

Throw in the mass-market appeal+rising third party support+cheaper dev costs, and...

do I really need to spell this out for you? You can't see the trends in the sales? Reaaallly, jimbo?

As for the last bolded part, I like how you threw in Wii Sports with Zelda. Smart.

Protip: Look at Zelda's attach rate with the Wii. Yeah.

 

[Kosma]

-edit-

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Now, some may tell you the PSP tie ratio thread was the dumbest thing on GAF in the last 24 hours, but I think the real hot action is to be found here.