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[Raistlin]

The Inside Story of Surface Book, Microsoft’s Next Big Thing | WIRED



I WANT A MINI. :|

If a mini Surface ever gets release I'll buy it instantly.

I still think it will happen but doesn't quite make sense yet given the state of things. They need to get a few items cleaned up; namely improvements in Win 10 tablet mode, a better selection of universal apps, some maturing of Continuum, etc.


Based on some hints from MS, musings from journalists, and my own thoughts ... I see the following happening over the next 1-2 years:

• Lumia continues to exist as it is now. At some point they may change its name given the eventual license completion, but regardless there will continue to be an ARM-based phone line that runs phone and Universal apps. As more and more universal apps hit, its usage of Continuum will get more interesting, but overall this will still continue to be a more traditional phone offering from MS.

• Either next or the following year we will see a new phone line (either a single phone or a regular and XL) completely overseen by Panay. This will finally be the Surface Phone people have wanted. What will separate it from Lumia (beyond build quality and some sort of metal body) will be an Intel chipset.
  
  I forget the name of it, but MS is offering a new capability to the MS app store whereby developers can package traditional Win32 applications into a special executable available for download. They are essentially a VM in that their installation and execution is completely siloed. It removes the issue of dll's going all over the place and the registry getting hosed up. The application sees everything as normal, but it doesn't dirty up the main system and uninstalling it actually removes everything completely.
  
  And this is where the important difference shows its face. Those applications will be runnable on this phone when in Continuum mode (though not directly on the phone for obvious reasons). For the user they get a true PC in phone form, but without all the typical issues associated with Win32 applications potentially messing up the system or other applications. And obviously this will run Phone and Universal apps as well

• At this point everything is ready for the introduction of a Surface Mini. It would essentially be a bigger version of the Surface Phone. ~8" screen, a bit beefier Intel SoC, and larger battery.
  
  Panay mentioned that he had wanted to have pen support for the Lumia 950 XL, but it didn't work out. As another form of differentiation, I suspect Surface Phone (or at least the XL version of it exists) will get a pen instead of Lumias. Similarly I would expect the Surface Mini to get this same pen, as that was always the main point of it versus standard tablets.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Wait so the surface mini isn't the surface 3? Huh for some reason I thought they were related projects but now that I think about it I guess you could go smaller again.

As long as it's still x86. But then s3 is already atom based.

 

[DopeyFish]

I really hope they do a surface mini in the form of the courier

Still an amazing concept

 

[brotkasten]

Wait so the surface mini isn't the surface 3? Huh for some reason I thought they were related projects but now that I think about it I guess you could go smaller again.

As long as it's still x86. But then s3 is already atom based.

The Surface Pro 3 event was supposed to be the Surface Mini event, with the Pro 3 as a side attraction. 8" screen, 1400x1050 resolution, some ARM SoC, Surface Pen support. It even had a short production run of around 5,000 units. But a week or two before the event, Nadella and Elop cancelled it, because it didn't stick out in the sea of 8" tablets on the market, according to he rumors. But it's more likely that the death of Windows RT had already been decided, so launching another RT device wouldn't have made sense.

 

[dLMN8R]

Would've sucked to get a Surface Mini which could never be upgraded to Windows 10.

<insert snarky comment about Windows 10 on tablets here>

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The Surface Pro 3 event was supposed to be the Surface Mini event, with the Pro 3 as a side attraction. 8" screen, 1400x1050 resolution, some ARM SoC, Surface Pen support. It even had a short production run of around 5,000 units. But a week or two before the event, Nadella and Elop cancelled it, because it didn't stick out in the sea of 8" tablets on the market, according to he rumors. But it's more likely that the death of Windows RT had already been decided, so launching another RT device wouldn't have made sense.

If it was RT I don't know why they even bothered letting it get to production honestly.

I'm sure the could probably do an x86 mini now tho.

Would've sucked to get a Surface Mini which could never be upgraded to Windows 10.

<insert snarky comment about Windows 10 on tablets here>

Improved tablet usability is my #1 most wanted thing in W10.

 

[Raistlin]

I really hope they do a surface mini in the form of the courier

Still an amazing concept

Highly doubt it. Their bet on Windows 10 is the kernel running everywhere, and based on the size, input types, etc, Continuum refactoring Universal Apps.

Courier's presentation is so different it seems untenable to hammer into the base kernel, and MS's general direction makes the idea of another standalone OS seem really unlikely.

It's basically Win 10 and the Band OS moving forward.

 

[brotkasten]

Highly doubt it. Their bet on Windows 10 is the kernel running everywhere, and based on the size, input types, etc, Continuum refactoring Universal Apps.

Courier's presentation is so different it seems untenable to hammer into the base kernel, and MS's general direction makes the idea of another standalone OS seem really unlikely.

It's basically Win 10 and the Band OS moving forward.

Even the Band OS is not a thing and should be replaced by Windows 10 for IoT in the future.

 

[Raistlin]

Even the Band OS is not a thing and should be replaced by Windows 10 for IoT in the future.

Agreed, and to my knowledge they have no plans to.

Was just saying those are the only two OS's that appear to be moving forward, and I don't think they have any plans to add another (Courier).



If anything, they'll drop to just Win 10 if Band or other future products that utilize the Band OS don't take off. They certainly don't want to add more OS's at this time. They've been slimming down, not segmenting.

 

[M3d10n]

I forget the name of it, but MS is offering a new capability to the MS app store whereby developers can package traditional Win32 applications into a special executable available for download. They are essentially a VM in that their installation and execution is completely siloed. It removes the issue of dll's going all over the place and the registry getting hosed up. The application sees everything as normal, but it doesn't dirty up the main system and uninstalling it actually removes everything completely.

And this is where the important difference shows its face. Those applications will be runnable on this phone when in Continuum mode (though not directly on the phone for obvious reasons). For the user they get a true PC in phone form, but without all the typical issues associated with Win32 applications potentially messing up the system or other applications. And obviously this will run Phone and Universal apps as well[/list]

That's Project Centennial. It's sole purpose is to allow existing/legacy desktop-oriented Win32 apps to be published and distributed via the Windows Store, making the desktop app install/update/uninstall experience more secure and streamlined. It's not intended to bring Win32 apps to phones, that'd be an UX nightmare even with continuum.

For example: what would happen to your running win32 apps when you disconnect from continuum? Win32 apps don't have a concept of "lifecycle", they don't get suspended when the system needs resources for other apps. So the system either kills them all (causing you to lose unsaved files) or keeps them running (killing your phone's battery). Win32 apps also assume the host machine either has large amounts of RAM or a swap file, neither of which are true for phones.

 

[Raistlin]

That's Project Centennial. It's sole purpose is to allow existing/legacy desktop-oriented Win32 apps to be published and distributed via the Windows Store, making the desktop app install/update/uninstall experience more secure and streamlined. It's not intended to bring Win32 apps to phones, that'd be an UX nightmare even with continuum.

For example: what would happen to your running win32 apps when you disconnect from continuum? Win32 apps don't have a concept of "lifecycle", they don't get suspended when the system needs resources for other apps. So the system either kills them all (causing you to lose unsaved files) or keeps them running (killing your phone's battery). Win32 apps also assume the host machine either has large amounts of RAM or a swap file, neither of which are true for phones.

I admittedly did not come up with this concept (it was being discussed on Windows Weekly), but I think it's quite interesting.

When you say it would be a UX nightmare, I need to rephrase as I must have not made the intent clear. They nor I meant the sort of UX reflow of a Universal App. What was being discussed is that when connected via Continuum, the application would run as normal on an external KVM setup. It would not reflow the application on the phone, nor would you be able to use it there.

The lifecycle point is a good one, but I don't believe it is untenable. The OS is aware of when a Win32 application is running, similarly it is aware when you are 'using Continuum' (hard connected to a dock or utilizing an external KVM over bluetooth). When you disconnect from the monitor, the OS should be able to prompt the user with whether they would like to save or not. The majority of software that has savable data utilizes the traditional Ctrl+S shortcut, which then could easily be sent if you say Yes. While not perfect, that would handle most cases.

I think a better solution, and who knows maybe it's something MS is considering, would be to add a few requirements to developers that want to utilize Project Centennial. MS would provide a simple API that would have a save event. They would simply need to bind their save to it? Actually a cleaner design would to also expose a 'dirty flag' that Centennial can call to determine if data even requires saving. That way they wouldn't have to bother with the phone popup if there's nothing to save and you disconnect without exiting the application

As far as RAM though, that is a non-issue. The Lumia 950 and 950XL have 3GB of RAM, so there's no reason to assume a Surface phone or similar device would have less. If anything the fact Surface would be a premium device and not hitting for another year or two makes it likely we could see 4GB. Either way, there are plenty of low end Windows laptops and mini computers that get released with 2GB of RAM. So if 3GB would be the minimum here, it's enough for lightweight Win32 usage.

 

[KamenSenshi]

Would've sucked to get a Surface Mini which could never be upgraded to Windows 10.

<insert snarky comment about Windows 10 on tablets here>

Had it released, it would have basically been the best 8" Windows tablet plus the pen support to differentiate it. I'd imagine it could have actually done really well, plus had it done at least as well as the Pro 3 did, RT would still be a thing or being 8" it would have gotten upgraded to Win 10 Mobile. Or Windows 10 rt could be a thing. I still want one.