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[The Fatal Englishman]

I wish the people who keep saying we need to open a line of dialogue could give examples of what you can say to the sort of person who claims that they "chose" to be gay because of how terrible women are.

Milo is a parasite. A 'dialogue' is worthless for the simple reason that he's in it for himself and nobody else. I have doubts that he even believes the drivel that comes out of his mouth half the time.

That being said, at the risk of being called a concern troll, this whole thing is a bad look. Violent assaults, looting. Milo's going to have years worth of ammunition after this.

 

[zoku88]

Yes, I would entirely agree with you if this had been a peaceful protest and not the riotous spectacle that's been fudging up CNN the last few hours. It's not really the same thing.

So, just to be clear, we would all be against it if the government prevented him from speaking, because that violates the 1st. And we would oppose it if the university prevented him, because that would violate academic freedom and the 1st. But if the student protest/riot intentionally prevents the speaking engagement (per CNN), we're fine with that?

Agree with me about what? What the ACLU's position is? We're still talking about that right?

The latter portion seems like you forgot what we were talking about. Not sure where the 'we' part came from...

 

[Anjelus_]

The first amendment does not protect fighting words (Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire) and he sure likes to throw around colorful language to open up "debate." I wouldn't be sad if he were arrested for it.

Fighting Words Doctrine has had a long history of jurisprudence since the 1940s. Even crazy Fred Phelps (Westboro nut who protested funerals) enjoyed his protected speech, and that he didn't run afoul of Fighting Words shows how very narrowly SCOTUS interprets Chaplinsky.

I wouldn't hold my breath for anyone being arrested on Fighting Words anytime soon if even Fred escaped

 

[ittoryu]

So, instead of just letting him come in, speak to his echo chamber, and leave quietly, you protest, riot, and burn things, bringing even more attention and exposure to the man and his message.

Solid plan.

Because ignoring him and all the train of shit coming from the so called "alt-right" has worked perfectly until now.

 

[Messofanego]

It's hard to say, it's ammo and it can be used to make the left look violent. That is never good, especially when the divide is very tense right now. It can make police and schools act a certain way to future protest, again imo nothing good comes from this.

It's about time the left looked violent to Nazis and Nazi sympathisers who have been violent for generations and hope it continues so they never try to step out unless if they're ready to fight. Plenty of good comes from fighting nazis, heck we won a couple of wars from them.

 

[Alcoremortis]

Fighting Words Doctrine has had a long history of jurisprudence since the 1940s. Even crazy Fred Phelps (Westboro nut who protested funerals) enjoyed his protected speech, and that he didn't run afoul of Fighting Words shows how very narrowly SCOTUS interprets Chaplinsky.

I wouldn't hold my breath for anyone being arrested on Fighting Words anytime soon if even Fred escaped

Well, Fred Phelps had a family full of lawyers, so he might have had a slight advantage there.

 

[everyday math]

So, instead of just letting him come in, speak to his echo chamber, and leave quietly, you protest, riot, and burn things, bringing even more attention and exposure to the man and his message.

Solid plan.

We did that and again they now control the government.

Solid plan.

 

[The_Kid]

I don't understand the "ignore them and they'll go away" argument. You don't ignore bullies, they don't suddenly stop spreading pain because you don't take notice. And there will always be people who will listen to their message, however small, and attempt to spread it.

The worst thing you can do is give the impression that these people are harmless, that their ideology won't lead to horrible issues.

 

[ironmang]

You think ignoring people makes them go away? Are you that naive?

Well, instead of him just talking to like 100 people who all agree with him anyways he's going to reach many more due to the protest/riot. That youtube video he put up already has 153k in the middle of the night here. He's playing the victim pretty well which is probably not what you want to be shown next to the videos of his supporters getting pepper sprayed and beaten down as well as ATMs and windows being destroyed and reports of cops being targeted with bricks and fireworks.

He likely wanted this to happen anyways. Probably had his video speech written up weeks ago and was just waiting to use it.

 

[Madame M]

Fighting Words Doctrine has had a long history of jurisprudence since the 1940s. Even crazy Fred Phelps (Westboro nut who protested funerals) enjoyed his protected speech, and that he didn't run afoul of Fighting Words shows how very narrowly SCOTUS interprets Chaplinsky.

I wouldn't hold my breath for anyone being arrested on Fighting Words anytime soon if even Fred escaped

Phelps didn't run afoul of fighting words because the person who sued him was barely affected by his speech, the dude who sued Phelps only learned about the WBC protest of his kids funeral later on TV and it made him a Sad Panda. It's not surprising that the Court would laugh at the idea that the Phelps using fighting words that could incite violence from Snyder (the evil that the Fighting Words Doctrine is intended to prevent) when Snyder was barely exposed to the protest itself.

As for not holding your breath, Milo has been throwing around tranny and faggot a lot and the reaction by protesters has been getting more violent. The highest level of violence you see in protest of Phelps are people throwing big gulps at them from their cars. What happened in Berkeley seems more of a threat to public peace than throwing big gulps at assholes.

 

[Lautaro]

The neo nazis already consider it a war (they just hide behind the "trolling" excuse), is about time the american left woke to that reality.

Be wary though, political violence will only escalate (if you had a decent government the conflict could be defused but that's not the case anymore) and your country has so many guns in the hands of civies... I'll just say this and interpret it any way you want: BE SAFE.

 

[TBiddy]

Well, instead of him just talking to like 100 people who all agree with him anyways he's going to reach many more due to the protest/riot. That youtube video he put up already has 153k in the middle of the night here. He's playing the victim pretty well which is probably not what you want to be shown next to the videos of his supporters getting pepper sprayed and beaten down as well as ATMs and windows being destroyed and reports of cops being targeted with bricks and fireworks.

He likely wanted this to happen anyways. Probably had his video speech written up weeks ago and was just waiting to use it.

Indeed. It's like the oldest trick in the book, playing the victim. Some people on the left seem to be buying right into it. Also, it's a scary thought that someone actually believe that violence can only be ended with more violence (the guy above talking about fighting nazis everytime they step outside).

 

[Madame M]

Indeed. It's like the oldest trick in the book, playing the victim. Some people on the left seem to be buying right into it. Also, it's a scary thought that someone actually believe that violence can only be ended with more violence (the guy above talking about fighting nazis everytime they step outside).

Exterminate all the brutes!

 

[CryptiK]

You think ignoring people makes them go away? Are you that naive?

You think beating the shit out of people is going to make them go away? You just know its going to push more people to the wrong side. Hell Trump is doing the same shit with Immigration Ban, just going to push people to ISIS. Its fucking moronic.

 

[Doctor Ninja]

I loath Milo, but I don't think that's the way to do it. An open dialog using rational thinking should expose his bigotry to the public.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I loath Milo, but I don't think that's the way to do it. An open dialog using rational thinking should expose his bigotry to the public.

...


Seriously?

When's the last time that worked?

 

[chillybright]

Gotta admit never heard of this guy until tonight. Called my friend in Berkeley and he said it was a shitshow unfolding. Glad he was OK though. Said professor suggested them today not going to the protest and he listened.

 

[Bad_Boy]

I loath Milo, but I don't think that's the way to do it. An open dialog using rational thinking should expose his bigotry to the public.

nah son. he creates irrational followers.

 

[Doctor Ninja]

...


Seriously?

When's the last time that worked?

A lot of times, I am not talking about Milo himself, I am talking about the people he is trying to reach. Exposing his bigotry will not make him reach these people.

 

[Funky Papa]

I loath Milo, but I don't think that's the way to do it. An open dialog using rational thinking should expose his bigotry to the public.

His bigotry is already exposed and in the open.

His speeches are propaganda.

 

[Doctor Ninja]

His bigotry is already exposed and in the open.

His speeches are propaganda.

And if he continues to talk, people should continue to expose him. Violence and de-platforming will only give guys like him ammunition.

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

I loath Milo, but I don't think that's the way to do it. An open dialog using rational thinking should expose his bigotry to the public.

And that worked when? When a significant amount of the population agreees with it and they continue to shout loudly their support?

Honestly I feel like jaw should be cracked. The amount of hate he's stirring and the propoganda that's being spread and emboldening these fuckers? No. Talking to them is over. Along with Richard Spencer and his bullshit about peacefully "ethnically cleansing" the united states? This is who you want to have an open dialog with? People that want us gone at best, or "cleansed" at worse? Or how about the new protections and removal of laws for cops to continue their pursuit of targeting minorities? Is that something that should be given a "dialog" when it's these same fucks that go towards that job so they can do their doctrine indiscriminately and given legal status to cause harm?

 

[excelsiorlef]

A lot of times, I am not talking about Milo himself, I am talking about the people he is trying to reach. Exposing his bigotry will not make him reach these people.

Ummm he's plenty exposed. Like banned from twitter fir being a racist harasser exposed.

 

[Doctor Ninja]

And that worked when? When a significant amount of the population agreees with it and they continue to shout loudly their support?

Honestly I feel like jaw should be cracked. The amount of hate he's stirring and the propoganda that's being spread and emboldening these fuckers? No. Talking to them is over. Along with Richard Spencer and his bullshit about peacefully "ethnically cleansing" the united states? This is who you want to have an open dialog with? People that want us gone at best, or "cleansed" at worse? Or how about the new protections and removal of laws for cops to continue their pursuit of targeting minorities? Is that something that should be given a "dialog" when it's these same fucks that go towards that job so they can do their doctrine indiscriminately and given legal status to cause harm?

Like I said, an open dialog will not change his mind, but it would expose his bad arguments to the people he is trying to reach.

 

[Double Donut]

She's wearing a hat that is in support of a man who put a white supremacist and Nazi sympathizer on his National Security Council, that shit doesn't fly

Every person who continues to support Trump supports white supremacy, period. Give no quarter.

Holy cow. This type of thinking is what pushes people to the right. Trump's a fucking pinhead, but this ridiculous line of thinking that gets pushed a lot, particularly here - that any person who clicked on Trump's name back in November is a full on nazi - is ludicrous.

Wearing a MAGA hat is immediately grounds for being pepper sprayed and beaten? Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[Lautaro]

Yeah guys, History show us that fascism can only be defeated with words...

 

[besada]

Like I said, an open dialog will not change his mind, but it would expose his bad arguments to the people he is trying to reach.

Then why aren't you doing that instead of lecturing people? I'd really enjoy watching you attempt to open a dialog and convince Milo fans that he's wrong. Can I suggest you try Breitbart's comments section? Maybe link us to your success in the endeavor?

 

[Madame M]

Like I said, an open dialog will not change his mind, but it would expose his bad arguments to the people he is trying to reach.

Not really, Milo preaches to a choir.

 

[Doctor Ninja]

Then why aren't you doing that instead of lecturing people? I'd really enjoy watching you attempt to open a dialog and convince Milo fans that he's wrong. Can I suggest you try Breitbart's comments section? Maybe link us to your success in the endeavor?

I had an open dialog face to face with an honest to God fascist where I live, me and my friends exposed him and fallacious arguments to everyone and he is a laughing stock now.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Ummm he's plenty exposed. Like banned from twitter fir being a racist harasser exposed.

If only the same could happen to trump.

I would toast to that.

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

Like I said, an open dialog will not change his mind, but it would expose his bad arguments to the people he is trying to reach.

It's already exposed. What is it doing? People condemning him? For reasonable people yes, but for those seeking him out? They'll find him even easier if he's given more opportunities and more chances to spout hate. He can say what he wishes where ever he wishes. But that doesn't mean we have to stand for it. You want to say that fighting him or showing that there is consequences for outright hate would give him ammo? What about the people who already see him as evil? Does it not also give them ammo as there is someone who will stand up and fight evil in the most base of instincts that anyone can understand? Words are the weapon of the civilized, but a one on one physical confrontation is a universal language that everyone can understand regardless of language, creed, race, religion, ethnicity or gender.

Did Open carry disappear in California because Martin Luther King Jr cupcaked his ass with words? No. It disappeared because minorities started fighting and Malcom X started using the laws to his advantage to force hateful white people to reappraise what they believed was status quo. Both types are needed. You can't win with just words. You have to make it physical. What good is a moral victory if you're destroyed in the process?

 

[besada]

I had an open dialog face to face with an honest to God fascist where I live, me and my friends exposed him and fallacious arguments to everyone and he is a laughing stock now.

We're not talking about your neighborhood fascist. We're talking about Milo. A well known, highly popular, well connected person. You and your friends ganging up on some jackass isn't remotely similar. So, you've instructed everyone on how to solve the problem, so I'd like to see you do it. Not some other issue, but this one. I'd like to see you convince Milo supporters they're wrong. If you can't or won't, I can only assume you're talking out of your ass.

 

[BocoDragon]

We need new Boondocks now more than ever, only if the creator and writing team came back.

Holy shit YES.

That anemic season a couple years ago was a waste... but we need smart satire now.

 

[Doctor Ninja]

It's already exposed. What is it doing? People condemning him? For reasonable people yes, but for those seeking him out? They'll find him even easier if he's given more opportunities and more chances to spout hate. He can say what he wishes where ever he wishes. But that doesn't mean we have to stand for it. You want to say that fighting him or showing that there is consequences for outright hate would give him ammo? What about the people who already see him as evil? Does it not also give them ammo as there is someone who will stand up and fight evil in the most base of instincts that anyone can understand? Words are the weapon of the civilized, but a one on one physical confrontation is a universal language that everyone can understand regardless of language, creed, race, religion, ethnicity or gender.

Did Open carry disappear in California because Martin Luther King Jr cupcaked his ass with words? No. It disappeared because minorities started fighting and Malcom X started using the laws to his advantage to force hateful white people to reappraise what they believed was status quo. Both types are needed. You can't win with just words. You have to make it physical. What good is a moral victory if you're destroyed in the process?

MLKs entire movement was about civil disobedience and not violence, even was inspired by Gandhi even.

 

[Messofanego]

When legislation and the powers are headed by Republicans where nothing is done to fight injustices, don't be surprised when things get violent. Even scientists now have to become politicians. A baby can't come to the USA for life-saving surgery because of the Muslim ban. If we can't fight for these issues in a democratic and orderly fashion, it's time to fight for what's right.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Holy cow. This type of thinking is what pushes people to the right.

I don't think that's what pushes people to the right, dude.

 

[Doctor Ninja]

We're not talking about your neighborhood fascist. We're talking about Milo. A well known, highly popular, well connected person. You and your friends ganging up on some jackass isn't remotely similar. So, you've instructed everyone on how to solve the problem, so I'd like to see you do it. Not some other issue, but this one. I'd like to see you convince Milo supporters they're wrong. If you can't or won't, I can only assume you're talking out of your ass.

He wasn't some small Jackass, he was a pretty popular college history professor.

 

[besada]

He wasn't some small Jackass, he was a pretty popular college history professor.

So still talking out your ass, I see.

 

[31GhostsIV]

Explain to me why this shit is getting work like this to begin with?

 

[d00d3n]

Explain to me why this shit is getting work like this to begin with?

Right wing student organizations have the money, invite him and pay him.

 

[Madame M]

Explain to me why this shit is getting work like this to begin with?

Affirmative action bake sales put on by college republican groups

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

MLKs entire movement was about civil disobedience and not violence, even was inspired by Gandhi even.

And what did that get him and his people? Hosed by high pressure fire hoses? Dogs savagely biting them? Tear Gas? Cracked skulls? While the majority of white people at the time stayed silent showing either silent approval or outright approval of the times? He was inspired by Gandhi? Yeah. Did very little. Though the body may perish, my message goes on? So you want actual minorities to sit down and peacefully discuss with monsters? Oh please Mr. Monster, give us mercy. Oh please let us live in this place. Oh please don't discriminate against me. Oh please don't kill me or harm me. Oh thank you for your fucking scraps. No. If you want to be treated as a human being with some fucking dignity you FIGHT against your oppressors. People don't give power willingly and if these fucking Nazis attain power they will kill untold people of color if it becomes socially acceptable to stay in power. Empathy? You honestly believe that empathy should be given to these devils?

 

[Doctor Ninja]

So still talking out your ass, I see.

As you wish, ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Call me a liar if you want, but that worked and violence isn't the answer, we live in civil society governed by law, we shouldn't subscribe to violence.

 

[Double Donut]

I don't think that's what pushes people to the right, dude.

I disagree. I think using insane hyperbole, dehumanizing and vilifying Trump supporters as a whole, could definitely make a centrist go "you gotta be kidding me" and lean them to the right. And I'd absolutely bet it helps push people on the right into the alt-right.

 

[theguy]

We're not talking about your neighborhood fascist. We're talking about Milo. A well known, highly popular, well connected person. You and your friends ganging up on some jackass isn't remotely similar. So, you've instructed everyone on how to solve the problem, so I'd like to see you do it. Not some other issue, but this one. I'd like to see you convince Milo supporters they're wrong. If you can't or won't, I can only assume you're talking out of your ass.

There's a special place in Hell for people like Milo. He's the LGBT equivalent of Uncle Tom who works for an alt-right fake news site.

Popularity means nothing. As a gay man, I can't stand him; and I know no other decent LGBT in the world who supports him.

There is no convincing his supporters that up isn't down and water isn't wet. His "connections" would be the first to kick the chair out from under his feet if given the opportunity.

 

[besada]

As you wish, ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Call me a liar if you want, but that worked and violence isn't the answer, we live in civil society governed by law, we shouldn't subscribe to violence.

Well, I do actually think you're lying, but that wasn't the point. The point was, you asserted that Milo's fans could be talked around. I asked you to do so. So, either you don't think it's worth the effort, or you can't. Which is it?

The super easy way to prove your point is to go do it. Seriously, go convince someone online that likes Milo that they shouldn't and link it back here. Given your impressive abilities, that should be a cakewalk.

 

[Doctor Ninja]

And what did that get him and his people? Hosed by high pressure fire hoses? Dogs savagely biting them? Tear Gas? Cracked skulls? While the majority of white people at the time stayed silent showing either silent approval or outright approval of the times? He was inspired by Gandhi? Yeah. Did very little. Though the body may perish, my message goes on? So you want actual minorities to sit down and peacefully discuss with monsters? Oh please Mr. Monster, give us mercy. Oh please let us live in this place. Oh please don't discriminate against me. Oh please don't kill me or harm me. Oh thank you for your fucking scraps. No. If you want to be treated as a human being with some fucking dignity you FIGHT against your oppressors. People don't give power willingly and if these fucking Nazis attain power they will kill untold people of color if it becomes socially acceptable to stay in power. Empathy? You honestly believe that empathy should be given to these devils?

It worked for Gandhi and worked for MLK, these noble acts were the ones that gave people their rights, not violence. I hope leave sentimentality behind and be a bit more objective.

I live in Ireland, I know what needless violence does and what it can create. Hate will generate even more hate.

 

[antonz]

History has shown that in the end the only way to deal with fascism is by directly confronting it and if needed through force.

You do not talk to it or leave them alone. Fascists want you to leave them alone and they want you to be passive. That empowers them. They exploit peoples willingness to try and approach things peacefully.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I disagree. I think using insane hyperbole, dehumanizing and vilifying Trump supporters as a whole, could definitely make a centrist go "you gotta be kidding me" and lean them to the right. And I'd absolutely bet it helps push people on the right into the alt-right.

Look at what Trump campaigned on.

Look at what Trump is doing less than a month in to his presidency.

That's what pushed people to the right. Not butthurt feelings.

 

[Siegcram]

I disagree. I think using insane hyperbole, dehumanizing and vilifying Trump supporters as a whole, could definitely make a centrist go "you gotta be kidding me" and lean them to the right. And I'd absolutely bet it helps push people on the right into the alt-right.

I forgot that "Nazi" is a magic word that turns "moderates" into actual right-wing extremists if they're exposed to it repeatedly.

Anything to absolve the silent acceptors of the status quo from their collective idiocy.