excelsiorlef
Member
What....
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Milo Yiannopoulos's UC Berkeley speech cancelled due to protests, campus on lockdown
- Thread starter ezekial45
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What....
StrategyFan
Member
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Maybe if we just ignore ultratruman he will go away.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Ironically the exact reason this fails is the exact reason that censorship, in this sense, is now nonsensical as a concept. With the internet anyone can find a platform and anyone can find an audience. Literally the only way to stop hate speech is with threat of violence or incarceration. Ignoring it is useless because there are infinite channels to propagate to receptive listeners
Imp the Dimp
Member
Have these been posted yet? They seem.....relevant
Yeah that seems accurate. I'm really worried where the US and partly the UK is headed.
Albino_Yeti
Member
I don't understand, are you denying that there were rioters at Berkeley? They were caught on camera setting fire to buildings and beating the shit out of random people, including one guy who was already unconscious.
Fuck those rioting anarchist scumbags. Not only are they cowardly pieces of filth, hiding behind their masks while they gang up on people 20-1, but they give legitimate protestors a bad name.
He has a book deal, man. Ignoring him doesn't/won't work.
Fucking zero.
No, I'm saying Trump followers might have hired anarchists to show up and fuck shit up to make it look like liberals, BLM activists, etc. were doing it. They've done it before.
If we just don't look (and get Paul Anka) it'll all go away.
TBiddy
Member
No, I've never said that he "deserves" to speak at a university. I'm not defending "him". I'm arguing that using violence to silence speech isn't a good idea and that everyone - no matter how shitty their world view is - should have the right to speak publicly.
That doesn't change the fact, that everyone else has the right to protest publicly as well. But using violence to silence someone? I don't condone. That doesn't make me a "nazi defender". Thank you.
There's a difference between "deserve to speak at a high profile university" and "have the right to speak publicly". I thought that was fairly obvious.
excelsiorlef
Member
He also has a podcast hosted by podcast one.
Like this guy everyone just decided is legitimate because the world has gone insane
Glass Shark
Banned
???
shanafan
Member
I thought this was an interesting statement from an article today.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...-lockdown-amid-protest-over-speaker/21705365/
Some 150 "masked agitators" were responsible for the violence during the otherwise largely peaceful protest of about 1,500 people, the university said in a statement, noting that the school "is proud of its history and legacy as home of the Free Speech Movement" in the 1960s.
I guess times are changing.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...-lockdown-amid-protest-over-speaker/21705365/
Some 150 "masked agitators" were responsible for the violence during the otherwise largely peaceful protest of about 1,500 people, the university said in a statement, noting that the school "is proud of its history and legacy as home of the Free Speech Movement" in the 1960s.
I guess times are changing.
ultratruman
Banned
You are wrong. I am not one of those 'they go low, we go high' people. It's much more complex and important than that.
Physically beating people, accepting the erosion of common decency, it is symptomatic healing. It makes you feel good, but it allows the real problem to grow.
I know it's hard to believe, but there really is a world out there where most ordinary people have never heard of Milo Yiannopoulos. Ok, he has a book deal: so does everyone these days. The only way to beat Trump is to radically rethink what the left means today, and win these ordinary people's votes. If the Left allows itself to be seen as physically violent towards people, this will never happen.
Gandhi brought down the entire British empire in India through peaceful demonstrations and general strikes, and there was nothing flaccid about him.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
What "evidence"?
A debate is simply the contention of an idea. Equality is never placed in areas of accuracy, validity etc just by debating. It is the debate that usually gives listeners the impressions of where each point stands in those regards.
Messofanego
Banned
I didn't check this follow-up but am so glad that the punch is making Richard Spencer worried.
Im afraid this is going to become the meme to end all memes. That Im going to hate watching this.
I was planning to go out tomorrow during the Womens March to do some journalism but I cant do that anymore. I have reached a stage of being a public figure where I am going to be recognised and then be attacked."
I am worried about going out to dinner on an average Tuesday because these people are roaming around.
Milo use to be someone who came off as level headed, who's statements were backed up with research, and while I disagreed with most of his views, I enjoyed watching the discourse unfold and subsequently how he challenged my views. WTF happened to him, how do you go from that to being a Nazi scum bag. I guess he was really good at hiding his real intentions and thoughts before
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
If white supremacy could be defeated by argument and debate it would not currently be in control of the White House. Unless the argument is that we didn't argue that white supremacy is bad enough
excelsiorlef
Member
I'd like to debate your right to be considered human, you go first please tell me why you should be considered human...
NoblesseOblige
Banned
It still amazes me that people are daft enough to think ignoring people like Milo will make them disappear. He does't exist because people give him negative attention. He exists solely because he gets positive attention from a herd of people he panders to. In doing so he generates profit for himself. The absolute last thing we should do is ignore it and allow him to continue to mirror the messages of bigots, racists, Nazis, and their ilk. As long as those people exist then so will people like Milo. By turning the volume down on their megaphone we can at least hope the hatred spreads less. But ignoring him is just going to allow it to flourish.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Hey, I believe black people and homosexuals should be put to death. Respect what I think, and come debate me if you don't like it. Otherwise you are the fascist! And don't even think about punching me, even if I think your life is worthless and should have your rights removed, and am actively campaigning to achieve that.
Seriously, how can someone defend this kind of speech? It's pure hate, plain and simple. You can't defend that.
It's funny how you appear to be fine with hate rhetoric (which hurts countless innocent people), but saying it shouldn't be tolerated is what crosses the line for you.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
We're getting into semantics here.
A debate is a formal discussion of ideas. That's the proper definition. To debate formally/academically, both positions must be given equal time and respect. In that sense, I do not think we should debate an ideology that considers the Holocaust a good idea. Not all ideas are equal. Like, how do you meaningfully debate with someone whose end game is ethnic cleansing...?
Glass Shark
Banned
I agree the American left needs significant change, but it seems like you're more content with saying "compromise and just let them have their Nazi parties in peace" where I'm saying the left needs to get as loud and extreme as the right has been willing to get for years. I'm not saying we need to go picking unnecessary fights, but when Nazis and Nazi sympathizers start gaining traction, it's time to stand our ground, and sometimes things are going to get rough.
ultratruman
Banned
How the fuck does 'not physically beating him' = ignoring him?
Here's a quote from Abraham Lincoln, who says it better than me, about confronting the mobocratic spirit:
excelsiorlef
Member
Fucking when?
When he was harassing Zoe Quinn? Or the transphobic nonsense attack on Brianna Wu who has never even said she was trans, or the racist assault on Leslie Jones that got him banned on twitter... or the transphobic harassment of a student at a previous "speech" he gave....
Fucking when?
What do you mean what happened to him?
He wasn't good at hiding.. like at all.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Was Milo physically beaten?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The greatest thing for this country would be if nazis and all their ilk were just as afraid to leave the house as black people do on a daily basis. Time for them to go back to 4chan.
shanafan
Member
Wait a minute.. what? lol
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I hope you didn't consider him to have any value post 2013... If you did then you were either completely ignorant to what he was doing, or you need to reevaluate some things about yourself.
everyday math
Banned
president is watching Fox News again. 30mins before his stupid ass tweet
Stop.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I believe that Milo is very disingenuous and violence like this is something that plays into his style very much. He will do ugly and provocative things then play very sweet and innocent when anyone actually tries to call him on his bullshit. But he gets his easiest and most effective hits in when he is "counter attacking" against something that is obviously crossing over the boundaries of civility.
Obviously the correct strategy to use against him to just keep on pushing relentlessly when he has no argument and starts to act cutesy or changes the subject. It's the obvious weakness in all his flawed positions. If anything acts of violence serve him so well that you have to suspect him and his allies from organising them themselves. It wouldn't be a first by any stretch of the imagination.
Obviously the correct strategy to use against him to just keep on pushing relentlessly when he has no argument and starts to act cutesy or changes the subject. It's the obvious weakness in all his flawed positions. If anything acts of violence serve him so well that you have to suspect him and his allies from organising them themselves. It wouldn't be a first by any stretch of the imagination.
Every time I see someone try to pass this off as a "free speech" issue I feel like punching something.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Stone Ocean
Member
No one should be allowed to promote hate speech in public. I agree with the violence bit but fuck that blanket notion of freedom of speech.
What happened to the America that took pride in quashing Nazi Germany? That shit is on your doorstep right now, ringing the bell, like some jackbooted salesman. This ain't the time to debate with the guy whether or not what he's selling is worth anything that debate happened 80 years ago and ended in over 60 million dead now's the time to unleash the fucking hounds.
You don't debate Nazis. You clamber on stage and gank their leaders: the Milos and the Dick Spencers. That doesn't mean everyone has to stand up and fight, but don't stand in the way of those who are.
You don't debate Nazis. You clamber on stage and gank their leaders: the Milos and the Dick Spencers. That doesn't mean everyone has to stand up and fight, but don't stand in the way of those who are.
TimeEffect
Member
we need a lot of clarification on this because this is the muddy middle that is causing misinformation and misinformation serves the nazis
Are the rioters separate from the protestors? Do they support the cause? Or are they feigning support to cause violence?
Who are these anarchists? Like I dont understand how there's always a group of people beating innocent people or causing damage to innocent people just in the name of chaos.
It's incredibly damaging if protestors are lumped in with them because the general reader will condemn it all and this is equivalent to indifference and silence for whatever nazis do
excelsiorlef
Member
Milo literally got banned from Twitter for being a major fucking racist harasser and he still gets asked on to TV shows, book deals, whatever and treated like he's not a crazy fucking racist...
Like this is what we're seeing, being a horrendous racist doesn't matter, telling me he's a horrendous racist doesn't matter, so fuck him, fuck his movement, shut it down, and keep him off the platform.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
As a black man, and i'm sure many can agree with this, the danger that I could be killed on a daily basis via the assumption that I must be up to no good for even the most benign things is very very real. All nazis have to worry about is being punched in their fucking face but I could sit on a bench listening to music and have someone call 911. Nazis don't deserve the luxury of not being afraid to walk around unafraid that their ideology won't be opposed as more and more white moderates claim that their hate speech is just either a)politics or b)a difference of opinion, both of which show an insane lack of critical thinking while simultaneously downplaying the severity of nazi ideology as well as the ideology of white supremacy that is current ruining the lives of millions of people.
ultratruman
Banned
Or what? You're going to beat him?
Messofanego
Banned
And stay online. Don't dare to come out of the house proud to be a Nazi. Call alt righters, KKK, white nationalists, white supremacists, as Nazis in media and everywhere. Don't allow public conferences. Don't allow public space to be used for hate speech. Make hate speech a crime like it is in European countries. Don't allow Nazis to be part of law enforcement. Don't allow them near weapons. Don't allow media coverage. Have compulsory education about what happens when you let Nazis run amok in society. Work in getting these white people out of unemployment. Don't give them a reason to join Nazi groups.
wait a second. Since when is Milo a Nazi?
I never knew him as anything other than someone who hates feminists, is pro-men's rights, pro-Trump and an insanely rude "troll" asshole who gets a kick out of offending people.
Since that was my understanding i never understood the big deal in him being allowed to talk at universities. His opinions, though i disagree with pretty much all of it, never seemed "extreme" enough to me to warrant a ban on him. (like for example Spencer would)
I never knew him as anything other than someone who hates feminists, is pro-men's rights, pro-Trump and an insanely rude "troll" asshole who gets a kick out of offending people.
Since that was my understanding i never understood the big deal in him being allowed to talk at universities. His opinions, though i disagree with pretty much all of it, never seemed "extreme" enough to me to warrant a ban on him. (like for example Spencer would)
He works for a white supremacist website.
Even if he wasn't a neo nazi, he still actively singles out and harasses students at the universities that he goes to speak at.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Exactly.
More Fun To Compute
Member
If you are so offended by him that you literally can't deal with the thought of him existing in the public sphere then just take a back seat and leave him to more level headed people. Random acts of violence are not the answer to his rope-a-dope strategy.
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