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[Toppot]

My friend, its not rubbish - what you paid for was a preorder, and you're being given the opportunity to play around with Minecraft in its current development state in exchange. It wasn't until very recently, in fact, that the forced "Minecraft Alpha/Beta ver XXX" was removed from the gameplay UI.

It is more the recent bastardization of Beta in its meaning that I object against. Beta is meant to mean when a game is feature complete and is being tweaked. Minecraft doesn't fulfill that requirement and hasn't for ages.

I get that they went for a completely new development cycle where people play it and test it, and I'm cool with that, it's very interesting and the gaming industry is taking note. But this isn't a demo or a 'GT Prolog' thing. We are getting the game in full, they are just adding and adding to it. Beta to them just meant that it could be played without crashing, which is really more a late alpha thing.

People have bought the game and have been playing it for months, they have communities of mods, skins, texture packs and severs that are paid for run with people putting in 100's of hours. And they have to take into consideration that they would be annoying their customers by requiring worlds to be restarted to enjoy newer features. And as I have said this is unlikely to change when minecraft 'releases' a d stops using the 'beta' tag

If you take Playstation Home as an example, that was beta for ages and that didn't require a redownload of everything or a wipe of player data. I understand it is very different as it is a modular shared world, but this came about through proper alpha testing and closed beta testing. Minecraft got a lucky break and exploded in success, and it doesn't have the kind of thought and structure built into it to be flexable.

 

[Orlandu84]

We should just limit all the building to one continent until 1.9 hits. Then expand and create the rest of the new world.

Not a bad idea. We could limit ourselves to an "Old World" and then expand when 1.9 comes out to create a "New World." Some people, however, will want to explore. Maybe we could keep a certain direction (like East of a certain point) off limits till 1.9 comes out.

 

[EVIL]

I took out a fair bit of bonemeal and wood so after the guilt tripping on here I put in a ton of Mossy Cobble, Sandstone etc, trying to fill chests

I AM ABSOLVED I TELL THEE.

no mossy cobble there bro.

btw ark.. with the expected rush of players around 1.8, will veterans and donators be guaranteed a slot?

=}

 

[Mikor]

Yeah, if we make an effort to not go too crazy with the exploration, then it shouldn't matter too much when 1.9 hits - and if there are unsightly gaps between the 1.8 and 1.9 biomes, we call always do some terraforming.

BorderGuard is your friend, NeoCrafters. Based on the posts I've been reading over the past few pages regarding your Arks and the thievery of community chests within them, I'd expect NeoCraft staff to realize that if you dont code-enforce things like that, it'll never happen. NeoGAF, and the NeoCraft server, is just too large and too broad of a community to hope that everyone is going to play nicely with one another and do what's best for the group.

*snip*

Once again, all of these ancillary things are irrelevant to the fact that Mojang has said for over a year now that you are paying for the privledge of playtesting their game in a pre-release state. Your anger over the worldgen changes would be more justified if they pulled this stunt after its official Release - but until then, its just not relevant to the conversation.

Myself and my colleagues have placed hundreds, if not thousands, of hours towards hosting servers, developing mods, creating complimentary mobile apps, and more. We understand where you're coming from with the mods, texture packs, etc - but all of us developers understand what we're getting ourselves into in creating ancillary content for an unfinished product.

Your example of PS Home is probably not a good example, since they've already announced a total overhaul of the entire Home software package and they're completely doing away with Home as it stands now.

 

[Houston3000]

Yeah, why don't you guys just install a plugin on the server that sets up an invisible border. When 1.9 hits disable the border and let people explore beyond it to uncover the new biomes. I think it would be pretty cool to actually keep the bordered area relatively small to, think about it.

It will foster the construction of a very concentrated central city hub. A huge major city with tall buildings, "apartment" complexes, and other mass-use structures - like an in-game Manhattan. The mine built directly beneath the city will be complex to and, since it's concentrated into one area, could be easily refined into a "finished" mine system (with tracks, carts, pillars, well laid out torches. It will also foster community since everyone will be together in one area instead of spread so far apart. Maybe even leave things like warps and flying disabled at first since you'd never need to travel too far anyways.

Then when 1.9 hits disable the borders and everyone can set forth and build their ridiculously huge castles, libraries, domes, lake houses, etc... but there'll always be that huge central hub city. More massive and complex than the one you had before.

 

[Grinchy]

Let's not pretend that they actually update Minecraft quickly. I just don't believe 1.9 is a month away from 1.8. If we go by track record, it will be much longer than that and will be delayed again after the date that they give us.

This server is full of crazy people who build like crazy people. Even if it's only 2 months between 1.8 and 1.9, the server will be full of the craziest shit ever because that's what people seem to be able to output on this server. I have no qualms about wiping for 1.8 and wiping for 1.9.

 

[Toppot]

Once again, all of these ancillary things are irrelevant to the fact that Mojang has said for over a year now that you are paying for the privledge of playtesting their game in a pre-release state. Your anger over the worldgen changes would be more justified if they pulled this stunt after its official Release - but until then, its just not relevant to the conversation.

Myself and my colleagues have placed hundreds, if not thousands, of hours towards hosting servers, developing mods, creating complimentary mobile apps, and more. We understand where you're coming from with the mods, texture packs, etc - but all of us developers understand what we're getting ourselves into in creating ancillary content for an unfinished product.

Your example of PS Home is probably not a good example, since they've already announced a total overhaul of the entire Home software package and they're completely doing away with Home as it stands now.

Then I guess I just have to say I don't like how they have run things. I do understand that I have paid for a pre-release software and that it is perfectly acceptable for them to make the changes how and when they are. I just don't like it =P

As far as I'm aware all that's happening is a massive overhaul of the US Home's main areas (The hub, shopping area, gaming area etc) Nothing major about how the game runs or is built. There was just the post on the US blog, nothing I've seen on the EU blog about such a thing and they are still doing updates to the Home client 1.55 and 1.56 i think. A major change would mean all previous areas would have to be redone or updated. So I shall look into this and if you have any links to it I would appreciate them.

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

Yeah, why don't you guys just install a plugin on the server that sets up an invisible border. When 1.9 hits disable the border and let people explore beyond it to uncover the new biomes. I think it would be pretty cool to actually keep the bordered area relatively small to, think about it.

It will foster the construction of a very concentrated central city hub. A huge major city with tall buildings, "apartment" complexes, and other mass-use structures - like an in-game Manhattan. The mine built directly beneath the city will be complex to and, since it's concentrated into one area, could be easily refined into a "finished" mine system (with tracks, carts, pillars, well laid out torches. It will also foster community since everyone will be together in one area instead of spread so far apart. Maybe even leave things like warps and flying disabled at first since you'd never need to travel too far anyways.

Then when 1.9 hits disable the borders and everyone can set forth and build their ridiculously huge castles, libraries, domes, lake houses, etc... but there'll always be that huge central hub city. More massive and complex than the one you had before.

That sounds like a great idea.

 

[Orlandu84]

Yeah, why don't you guys just install a plugin on the server that sets up an invisible border. When 1.9 hits disable the border and let people explore beyond it to uncover the new biomes. I think it would be pretty cool to actually keep the bordered area relatively small to, think about it.

It will foster the construction of a very concentrated central city hub. A huge major city with tall buildings, "apartment" complexes, and other mass-use structures - like an in-game Manhattan. The mine built directly beneath the city will be complex to and, since it's concentrated into one area, could be easily refined into a "finished" mine system (with tracks, carts, pillars, well laid out torches. It will also foster community since everyone will be together in one area instead of spread so far apart. Maybe even leave things like warps and flying disabled at first since you'd never need to travel too far anyways.

Then when 1.9 hits disable the borders and everyone can set forth and build their ridiculously huge castles, libraries, domes, lake houses, etc... but there'll always be that huge central hub city. More massive and complex than the one you had before.

Ever read "The Mote in God's Eye"? It is a science fiction novel about first contact with a race of aliens (Moties) who have been stuck in a single solar system. The key reference point is that the aliens' had a civilization that would collapse from civilization to savagery every 150 years due to resource scarcity. Trapping the Neocraft members in a small area might force us to use every single resource present in said area. Such a scarcity might have unintended consequences, such as social social collapse or dismantling old projects to start new projects.

 

[mcrae]

Ever read "The Mote in God's Eye"? It is a science fiction novel about first contact with a race of aliens (Moties) who have been stuck in a single solar system. The key reference point is that the aliens' had a civilization that would collapse from civilization to savagery every 150 years due to resource scarcity. Trapping the Neocraft members in a small area might force us to use every single resource present in said area. Such a scarcity might have unintended consequences, such as social social collapse or dismantling old projects to start new projects.

social collapse? on minecraft? lol what

the fact that many players would be able to go spelunking/exploring to their hearts content wouldn't go over well i dont think. massive regulated mining gets booooring.

 

[rezuth]

Man, I had a crazy dream last night, and it was very... Minecraft-y.

I was exploring a cave and happened upon a rather large dungeon, but it was in a semi-circle-ish room, with half of it looking like it caved it. Toward the caved in side, I saw the loot half buried. I proceeded to uncover all sorts of new blocks and and was all excited... Then I turned around and a huge Zelda-like Poe with glowing red eyes was staring me down, hovering menacingly. His eyes got bright a launched a 3 row attack of flames on the floor, all the way across the room. Somehow, I knew the only way to kill it was with a bow and arrow, so I promptly shot it in the face... Then I woke up.

I drew a quick little rendition of it, lol.

Kinda reminds me of Wraiths from Mo' Creatures

 

[Mikor]

Then I guess I just have to say I don't like how they have run things. I do understand that I have paid for a pre-release software and that it is perfectly acceptable for them to make the changes how and when they are. I just don't like it =P

As far as I'm aware all that's happening is a massive overhaul of the US Home's main areas (The hub, shopping area, gaming area etc) Nothing major about how the game runs or is built. There was just the post on the US blog, nothing I've seen on the EU blog about such a thing and they are still doing updates to the Home client 1.55 and 1.56 i think. A major change would mean all previous areas would have to be redone or updated. So I shall look into this and if you have any links to it I would appreciate them.

I was referring to the massive overhaul in reference to your statement about Home not requiring its users to redownload or regenerate existing content, when the overhaul will force users to do exactly that. That's all I meant.

I was only responding to you directly because you're the only one who took the time to do so to me. Lots of Minecraft fans feel the same way you do - I've had a number of friends of mine completely stop playing until the game's "release" for that very reason, in fact.

 

[Toppot]

social collapse? on minecraft? lol what

the fact that many players would be able to go spelunking/exploring to their hearts content wouldn't go over well i dont think. massive regulated mining gets booooring.

I think it could work if say you can explore everything north of spawn, so like half the current map, then when 1.9 is out people can go south of spawn as well.

I was referring to the massive overhaul in reference to your statement about Home not requiring its users to redownload or regenerate existing content, when the overhaul will force users to do exactly that. That's all I meant.

I was only responding to you directly because you're the only one who took the time to do so to me. Lots of Minecraft fans feel the same way you do - I've had a number of friends of mine completely stop playing until the game's "release" for that very reason, in fact.

Home's houses aren't redownloaded so the work taken to decorate them isn't lost, but i take your point that this isn't very relative to the random generation of Minecraft, so i shall drop this point.

You have made some very good points and I enjoy a good discussion. I'll just take a seat now with the people that are unhappy about it but will keep playing the updates =P

 

[Lazlo Woodbine]

I like the idea of confining development to one island too (if what we're hearing is true). Should help foster some better community projects as well, in the mean time.

I imagine if another wipe looms then I'll probably stick to mining and lvl'ing till 1.9. Talking of lvl'ing; any ideas on how things like levels are going to be approached on NeoCraft. I was reading this on crafhub today and it got me thinking about the wider ramifications of 1.8's changes:

http://crafthub.net/2011/09/01/how-1-8-could-change-minecraft-multiplayer/

@Evil: I still have a few stacks knocking about, might want to get in quicker this time though lol

EDIT: @Orlandu:

Ermmmm...

 

[Mengy]

I imagine if another wipe looms then I'll probably stick to mining and lvl'ing till 1.9. Talking of lvl'ing; any ideas on how things like levels are going to be approached on NeoCraft.

XP will be in 1.8, but it won't do anything. Skills and/or levels won't be in til 1.9.

 

[Jhriad]

I still fail to understand why veteran Minecraft players continue to act surprised when new map generation is required upon updates to the worldgen code.

New terrain generation (extending the map out to find the new bits) should be expected. Having to restart the map entirely every month shouldn't. It's still a poorly planned way of handling things instead of bundling both generation updates into one patch rather than two successive patches.

My friend, its not rubbish - what you paid for was a preorder

Minecraft is available to the general public as a beta but that's not an excuse for inconveniencing your user base particularly when it's a paid public beta. What we paid for isn't a preorder it's payment for continued development. See Kickstarter or similar models. Software iterations come so fast nowadays that simply calling something a 'beta' so you can push it out in an incomplete form and continue development is commonplace. Just because that tag has been attached doesn't discharge the responsibility a developer has to insure their products cause as little hassle as possible to their consumers. Once released to the general public, "beta" or not, it's the developers job to insure their product works as desired. It's our job to speak up when it doesn't. This is particularly true when we are directly funding the development of said project. (This is a salient point in mobile development as well)

'Beta' as it's commonly used in cases like these no longer awards the sort of complaisant attitude that a true beta does & should. This isn't a product test it's more akin to a soft launch (plus the crowdfunding angle) and should be treated as such.

 

[vas_a_morir]

So, should we wait until 1.9 to do a server reboot?

 

[Grinchy]

We should wait until 1.9. Then, when they announce some of the huge features in 2.0, we should decide to wait again.

(/sarcasm)

 

[Toppot]

So, should we wait until 1.9 to do a server reboot?

Really it's too early to tell, we will need official confirmation that 1.9 requires new landmass to be generated and if so a time frame for 1.9.

Either way the server will be restarted for 1.8 probably so we can play around with the new stuff online and collect any new items. Then if 1.9 is released soon after we can just load up the ark again and restart for 1.9. Depending on how long before the next 'required' reset people will be apprehensive to start building big cities/villages/structures, but also won't gather many resources as they won't be able to be carried over like it is now.

And out of curiosity how long has the current map been used for?

 

[ArtistDude88]

Kinda reminds me of Wraiths from Mo' Creatures

:U THEY EXIST! Just need to loose the arms and make the cloak red

 

[Ranger X]

As always, things are going to way "you need to regenerate chunks at the new version".
1.9 is probably more complex than just adding NPCs.

If 1.8 contains all the major new terrain editor features, I would be fine in starting something with minimal exploration and then we go full out in 1.9

 

[vid]

At this point, the "official release" of Minecraft is only a couple of months away, why not just wait for that before doing a full reset?

 

[Woorloog]

At this point, the "official release" of Minecraft is only a couple of months away, why not just wait for that before doing a full reset?

Good point really. Of course there's one issue with this... The full release is on November. And Skyrim, Halo CEA and bunch of other games are released on November...
Yeah yeah, new games are released this and next mont has well...

 

[limlark]

Someone help me believe the posts I am reading. I cannot do it.

 

[Toppot]

At this point, the "official release" of Minecraft is only a couple of months away, why not just wait for that before doing a full reset?

Such logic, I applaud you sir.

But I think the answer is we are too impatient and want to experience things as soon as possible, and the madness, confusion and messing around with arks and restarts is the price we pay.

Someone help me believe the posts I am reading. I cannot do it.

This and your avatar fit so well together. Care to make a more coherent sentence?

 

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Just seen the latest Yogscast and OH MY GOD (I know we all like to keep the server as vanilla as possible but...) this needs to see the light of day on NeoCraft.

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/394966-imagetomap-v10-custom-ingame-map-items/

EDIT:

@Evil: Just upped the Mossy Cobble to 9 full stacks in the community chests. Bitches be prowlin' so be prepared

 

[Grinchy]

Just seen the latest Yogscast and OH MY GOD (I know we all like to keep the server as vanilla as possible but...) this needs to see the light of day on NeoCraft.

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/394966-imagetomap-v10-custom-ingame-map-items/

Yeah that's really nice especially if we end up getting the ability to slap the maps on walls.

 

[Ranger X]

Just seen the latest Yogscast and OH MY GOD (I know we all like to keep the server as vanilla as possible but...) this needs to see the light of day on NeoCraft.

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/394966-imagetomap-v10-custom-ingame-map-items/

EDIT:

@Evil: Just upped the Mossy Cobble to 9 full stacks in the community chests. Bitches be prowlin' so be prepared

What's up with that? It's all mossy cobble you gathered by finding dungeons? daaaaamn.

 

[Rabbit Lord]

Jeb has already said there will be new biomes for 1.9 too. Maybe it's not enough for us to worry about, we can always just explore more chunks to get the new stuff.

Ah screw it, I've changed my mind. Lets start 1.8 Neocraft as soon as possible and just stick with it no matter what happens. We'll adapt and overcome whatever else changes!

New World HHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed.

 

[Xun]

I too think we should work within an area and lock off the rest of the world, that way we'll be able to spawn the new biomes without much of a problem when 1.9 hits.

I think we could all collectively build something really great for a spawn area.

 

[Complex Shadow]

I too think we should work within an area and lock off the rest of the world, that way we'll be able to spawn the new biomes without much of a problem when 1.9 hits.

I think we could all collectively build something really great for a spawn area.

i am down. lets start on a blue print.

 

[rezuth]

:U THEY EXIST! Just need to loose the arms and make the cloak red

They have a fire version that is red

 

[Xux]

So we figured out the issue with connecting to my friend's server. Turns out she was running it on simulated LAN over Hamachi so I can to connect to her through that. Whoops.

Anyway, Jesus Motherfuck this game has good music.

Also, it's kinda frustrating how fast you die on Normal.

 

[Ark]

Just seen the latest Yogscast and OH MY GOD (I know we all like to keep the server as vanilla as possible but...) this needs to see the light of day on NeoCraft.

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/394966-imagetomap-v10-custom-ingame-map-items/

EDIT:

@Evil: Just upped the Mossy Cobble to 9 full stacks in the community chests. Bitches be prowlin' so be prepared

Holy shit. Downloading and playing these maps now.

 

[Orlandu84]

social collapse? on minecraft? lol what

the fact that many players would be able to go spelunking/exploring to their hearts content wouldn't go over well i dont think. massive regulated mining gets booooring.

At least someone gets my quirky sense of humor All I really meant by my post is that limiting where people can go in the server (a legitimate option in my opinion) might lead to significant and unintentional consequences. I am not expecting people to go nuts or be malcontents, but I would not be surprised if really odd things happened.

 

[Jhriad]

At least someone gets my quirky sense of humor All I really meant by my post is that limiting where people can go in the server (a legitimate option in my opinion) might lead to significant and unintentional consequences. I am not expecting people to go nuts or be malcontents, but I would not be surprised if really odd things happened.

If the borderguard is of sufficient size most people will never notice. If you look at the Neocraft map and check out where the majority of ppl are they're mostly around the built areas with an increasingly small number of people the farther from spawn you get. People generally want to build close enough to each other that whatever they're building will be seen.

 

[wilflare]

thanks to jediyoshi! i finally got into minecraft!
thanks mate

can't wait for the new update

 

[Ark]

If I can get bordercraft working on the server, I will definitely cut off the map in preparation for 1.9.

Additionally, if I can make another, separate block within that, I'm going use that to create a super secret project I'm really excited about starting. I just need to make sure I can block that area off from everyone but me

 

[Ranger X]

If I can get bordercraft working on the server, I will definitely cut off the map in preparation for 1.9.Additionally, if I can make another, separate block within that, I'm going use that to create a super secret project I'm really excited about starting. I just need to make sure I can block that area off from everyone but me

Oh that's nice you like this idea!
It will make things interesting to play in a defined area.

 

[Xun]

Oh that's nice you like this idea!
It will make things interesting to play in a defined area.

Yeah.

I imagine people will create some pretty impressive stuff.

 

[hodgy100]

If you are still tying to work out how to barricade us all in one area for 1.8 have you thought about just making a physical barrier using bedrock, you could use a world editor to quickly get a barricade in place.

 

[Xun]

If you are still tying to work out how to barricade us all in one area for 1.8 have you thought about just making a physical barrier using bedrock, you could use a world editor to quickly get a barricade in place.

That's actually what I was thinking as well.

Edit: Also what was the verdict on the height restrictions or is that still up for debate?

 

[Mikor]

*snip*

As we've had this discussion in private before I believe, I wont get in to too much of the nitty gritty, but your assumptions about what Minecraft is and is not is completely irrelevant - Mojang's stance is that you are preordering a title and being given the opportunity to beta test, and so that's what it is. Customers being uneducated about what they're buying into cannot and should not ever influence the way a company develops its product.

 

[Mengy]

If you are still tying to work out how to barricade us all in one area for 1.8 have you thought about just making a physical barrier using bedrock, you could use a world editor to quickly get a barricade in place.

I don't like this idea. No offense, but the less we use world editors on the server the better IMHO. I just would rather the world be changed and edited by us, the players, in game, than by anything that could mess things up. Isn't that what ruined the biomes on the current server?

 

[Rabbit Lord]

I don't like this idea. No offense, but the less we use world editors on the server the better IMHO. I just would rather the world be changed and edited by us, the players, in game, than by anything that could mess things up. Isn't that what ruined the biomes on the current server?

Agreed.


Also, I have fraps, so I am going to attempt to make a video of our server. Any music suggestions?

 

[Ranger X]

I don't like this idea. No offense, but the less we use world editors on the server the better IMHO. I just would rather the world be changed and edited by us, the players, in game, than by anything that could mess things up. Isn't that what ruined the biomes on the current server?

Yeah but if it's if ONLY for a temporary barricade, I don't see the harm. I don't like any modifications normally. I didn't even install flying.

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

Agreed.


Also, I have fraps, so I am going to attempt to make a video of our server. Any music suggestions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8cELTdtw6U

Perfect song for the end of a Minecraft Server.

Edit: And to be fair, the Bastion end theme 'Setting Sail /Coming Home' is also quite appropriate in our situation ¬_¬

 

[Ark]

Isn't that what ruined the biomes on the current server?

That was because the server file corrupted during a major server crash, ours wasn't the only one affected at the time.

 

[Grinchy]

I really want this update. Can someone explain how to manipulate time so that I can start playing it right now, but then return to this present later on and experience the days I missed out on?

maybe i'm thinking too much about the movie Primer

 

[Jhriad]

but your assumptions about what Minecraft is and is not is completely irrelevant - Mojang's stance is that you are preordering a title and being given the opportunity to beta test, and so that's what it is. Customers being uneducated about what they're buying into cannot and should not ever influence the way a company develops its product.

Sorry, but you're wrong. When you pay for Minecraft you're paying for the game as it is right now. Purchases during the development of the game are discounted and include the full game upon release.

You're purchasing the client and in doing so funding the development of the game. It's been in the Terms of Use forever now that Mojang cannot guarantee that any project will ever be completed and/or provided support for. There's always the risk of a project being discontinued at any time. As such when you purchase the game you're only buying the client as it stands at time of purchase with the hope, but not guarantee, that you will receive updates and eventually a "Release" version.

Everything above in italics is a direct quote from either the MC or Mojang site.