Support NeoGAF

[bloodydrake]

Orboros is so freaking cool looking.

no doubt I'm very anxious to move beyond the Dnd Boardgame figures and start on the Hordes Armies.

 

[krypt0nian]

So I got a little ambitious and decided to do some gold NMM (Non-Metallic Metal). What I've got here is just the base colors for the evil armor (just red with gold banding) and tonight I'll be doing the blending. The red looks a little cartoony but maybe adding a wash might help mute the colors a little bit. I did get started on the bone spikes, the skulls, and the horns but my power went out and I didn't get a chance to upload its current state. I'm hoping to wrap that up tonight as well. Once all these are done I'll move on to the leather belts, boots, and pouches and then the fur and hair after that. I'll work on the arm/axe assembly after that.

Looking back, I really wished I had turned the horns back like ram horns, or even chop them off and do antlers. Oh well.

I also have to do the basing, which is typically what I leave last. I can do a snowy wasteland, desert badlands, forest grounds, or city ruins. I haven't decided which I want to do but I can take suggestions.

Just remembered this helpful article for battle damage. I'm tempted to try this on the armor as well.

I've been meaning to ask, what mini is he? I really like something about him.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Orboros is so freaking cool looking.

Trolls 4 Life

 

[krypt0nian]

Trolls 4 Life

Hehe. Hordes in general has appealing art.

But I want to teleport!

 

[Leunam]

I've been meaning to ask, what mini is he? I really like something about him.

Reaper Miniatures, Marek Manslayer

 

[krypt0nian]

Reaper Miniatures, Marek Manslayer

Oh ok, cheers!

 

[BattleMonkey]

Hehe. Hordes in general has appealing art.

But I want to teleport!

Movement is extremely important in Warmachine/Hordes, so yea it's awesome to be able and teleport.

I went trolls because I'm lazy and just like being so hard to kill.... just lumber around hulk smashing stuff slowly. Not the most effective but easy builds heh.

 

[bloodydrake]

Privateer Press really does have spectacular art design.
I have to admit I would have loved if the battle-box starter set had Trolls instead of Legion

For Circle I do love the models, but I'm looking at alternate color schemes for the armour.
I'm not a big fan of green/bronzed gold trim scheme.

I'm thinking even changing the green to turquoise might look nicer.
or perhaps a deep orange to red with silver trim instead

 

[krypt0nian]

Privateer Press really does have spectacular art design.
I have to admit I would have loved if the battle-box starter set had Trolls instead of Legion

For Circle I do love the models, but I'm looking at alternate color schemes for the armour.
I'm not a big fan of green/bronzed gold trim scheme.

I'm thinking even changing the green to turquoise might look nicer.
or perhaps a deep orange to red with silver trim instead

Check out bluetablepainting on YT for the Circle figs. They did a jaw dropping Autumn theme. I'll dig for the link.

Found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3w_t9HiIBM

This is what I intend to do when I get a bit more skill.

 

[Leunam]

The mane on that wolf looking dude is awesome. Wish I had thought of that. Had I seen this video earlier I would have done an autumn base for my mini instead of winter.

 

[krypt0nian]

The mane on that wolf looking dude is awesome. Wish I had thought of that. Had I seen this video earlier I would have done an autumn base for my mini instead of winter.

That vid made me fall in love with Orboros, no pun intended.

 

[MutantCyborg]

So I started painting some older models I had laying around and I'm having an issue. I primed the models in Chaos Black primer from Games Workshop (admittedly the can of primer is a couple years old). I started painting them last night and coated 2 models in a purple. Now I woke up this morning and the models are black again. Is there any reason to this? I painted them again to see if I just watered down the paint too much and it looks like the model is absorbing the paint.

 

[bloodydrake]

oh wow! that is a much much attractive natural color scheme for the circle.

I love the chestnut and indian reds and orange look awesome. I like that a lot more then the default color.

eKaya and Laris look so much nicer

This

Vs.

 

[BattleMonkey]

So I started painting some older models I had laying around and I'm having an issue. I primed the models in Chaos Black primer from Games Workshop (admittedly the can of primer is a couple years old). I started painting them last night and coated 2 models in a purple. Now I woke up this morning and the models are black again. Is there any reason to this? I painted them again to see if I just watered down the paint too much and it looks like the model is absorbing the paint.

What kind of paint are you using? Brand and type.

 

[MutantCyborg]

What kind of paint are you using? Brand and type.

Its called Craft Smart Acrylic paint. I bought it in a craft store called Michael's. I know its not vallejo paints but its all I can afford.

 

[Leunam]

Picked up some Yu Jing and Haqqislam models, three each. Can't wait to get started on these.

So I started painting some older models I had laying around and I'm having an issue. I primed the models in Chaos Black primer from Games Workshop (admittedly the can of primer is a couple years old). I started painting them last night and coated 2 models in a purple. Now I woke up this morning and the models are black again. Is there any reason to this? I painted them again to see if I just watered down the paint too much and it looks like the model is absorbing the paint.

That is really weird. My guess would have been really watered down paint but it looks like you checked for that. Yeah, what kind of paint is it? It's acrylic right?

Its called Craft Smart Acrylic paint. I bought it in a craft store called Michael's. I know its not vallejo paints but its all I can afford.

Try it on a different plastic surface with the same primer and see if you get the same results.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Its called Craft Smart Acrylic paint. I bought it in a craft store called Michael's. I know its not vallejo paints but its all I can afford.

Never used that one, unless it's very watery, because if so it would dry a bit clear and seem like your coats are not going on well. Also between coats did you let the paint dry first? Cause otherwise the coats will usually not really work out.

At Micheals I usually recommend the cheap Apple Barrel paints. They have never given me problems.

 

[MutantCyborg]

Never used that one, unless it's very watery, because if so it would dry a bit clear and seem like your coats are not going on well. Also between coats did you let the paint dry first? Cause otherwise the coats will usually not really work out.

At Micheals I usually recommend the cheap Apple Barrel paints. They have never given me problems.

I think I saw some apple barrel paints maybe ill pick some of them up if I cant figure this out.

I am letting the paint try before doing a second coat. I just looked at the model I repainted and the black is more of a black with a very very pale purple tint, but still not the color of the actual paint.

Should I try painting a model without watering down the paint at all? Could it be the primer that is the issue here?

 

[Leunam]

You're shaking the paint too right? If it's been sitting for a while the water and pigment might separate.

 

[MutantCyborg]

You're shaking the paint too right? If it's been sitting for a while the water and pigment might separate.

Yep, I shook the primer before I applied it for about 3 minutes and the acrylic paint for 30ish seconds before applying.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I think I saw some apple barrel paints maybe ill pick some of them up if I cant figure this out.

I am letting the paint try before doing a second coat. I just looked at the model I repainted and the black is more of a black with a very very pale purple tint, but still not the color of the actual paint.

Should I try painting a model without watering down the paint at all? Could it be the primer that is the issue here?

Don't water down the paint, especially cheaper ones. Though I generally never water down any paint for models no matter how good they are.

The color of primer used does have an effect on how your paint comes out, so if your using watered down purple on black, your going to need lot of coats to show unless your using extremely bright colored purple. A white primer might be better if your using a dark purple.

 

[MutantCyborg]

Cool, thanks. I might be able to pick up a can of white primer tonight. Any specific brands I should look at? I'd prefer not buying another games workshop brand, I think I spent $20 on it a few years ago.

Is there an article on which color primer to pick when? I can't really search that well on my phone.

 

[Leunam]

Grey primer provides a nice balance for light and dark colors. White will make lighter colors look better and black helps darker colors. It's entirely possible to use on or the other (see my mini above).

Krylon supposedly makes a good primer but I've yet to try it myself. I'm sure someone on here has used it before, or at least another alternate to Citadel stuff.

 

[nicoga3000]

Krylon is OK, but I really do prefer Army Painter or Citadel. It's slightly more expensive stuff, but your prime coat is one of (if not the most) important coats you'll put on. Even a mist over the model will make a difference.

Grey is my personal favorite primer. You can build up bright colors without too much work and it helps to keep the model from becoming too bright or too grim by default.

Black primer is excellent for shadowing work. It works great for an initial basecoat as well. You can build into the shadows when you layer which is nice. Also, it is the best option for when you're going to be doing drybrushing armor and such. You can prime black, drybrush sliver, thin ink wash, and BAM.

White primer gives ALL of your colors more pop. It's also the best way to begin working with presentation quality reds, yellows, and oranges. Those are all very challenging colors to pull off effectively (if you don't use many thin coats, you get a model that LOOKS like you painted it).

I really suggest grey to ANYONE new to painting for more than rules (3 color rules in tournies and such). It all comes down to personal preference, though. It depends on how you paint, too. If you try grey and don't like it, figure out WHY, and adjust. Did your model feel too drab? Go with white. Did it feel too "fake"? Try black.

The only two absolutes in miniature painting are:

1) Buy expensive ("name brand") brushes, because honestly, expensive brushes really are nicer.

2) Thin thin thin thin thin your paint.

 

[bloodydrake]

(3 color rules in tournies and such)

serious question tho its a side track..whats that all about? is there painting rules for playing in tourneys?

 

[Leunam]

Some Warhammer/Warhammer 40k tournaments require your minis to be completely painted (minimum of three colors not including basing) otherwise you are docked points, I think.

 

[bloodydrake]

ahh I see its to promote playing painted not just primed ect..gotcha

 

[Leunam]

Getting there. Arm isn't glued in which is why I'm holding it so awkwardly. Given that it's a two hand weapon the axe head seems surprisingly small for a figure like this. These are just mid-tones, of course, so highlights and shading are next once I've laid down the mid tones for the skin, the axe, and the gauntlets.

 

[MutantCyborg]

I think I figured out my problem. The paint is drying a bit darker than I thought it would. Duhh, I'm an idiot. I painted to model over in a yellow and it was fine. Now I ruined to model and need to strip it but at least I figured it out. I used windex to strip some models that had sloppy primer on it, but it still took a lot of brushing with a toothbrush to remove the paint, and there is still a little left on the model. I remember someone saying use simple green, does it remove most of the paint itself or will I need to spend 5 minutes per model scrubbing it down?

How do you guys go about picking color schemes? Should it come natural to you oR should i look for something to try and emulate? I have trouble picking colors that mesh well together. I guess I need to be more artistic or something.

 

[Zaptruder]

Getting there. Arm isn't glued in which is why I'm holding it so awkwardly. Given that it's a two hand weapon the axe head seems surprisingly small for a figure like this. These are just mid-tones, of course, so highlights and shading are next once I've laid down the mid tones for the skin, the axe, and the gauntlets.

As fascinating as your little photo-doc of your painting process is...

It seems like you're taking forever on a single mini.


I mean, I understand that the process of painting a good mini is a time expensive process - having done it to a very high level several times myself.

But the whole photo-doc process of yours is making it seem like a super-epic multi-week struggle to get a single mini painted.

I find that quite amusing tbh.

 

[Leunam]

I think I figured out my problem. The paint is drying a bit darker than I thought it would. Duhh, I'm an idiot. I painted to model over in a yellow and it was fine. Now I ruined to model and need to strip it but at least I figured it out. I used windex to strip some models that had sloppy primer on it, but it still took a lot of brushing with a toothbrush to remove the paint, and there is still a little left on the model. I remember someone saying use simple green, does it remove most of the paint itself or will I need to spend 5 minutes per model scrubbing it down?

I've used Simple Green for stripping metal models and removing release agent from resing models. I leave them in overnight and rinse them while brushing the paint away. No real need to scrub incredibly hard, but maybe I got lucky.

How do you guys go about picking color schemes? Should it come natural to you oR should i look for something to try and emulate? I have trouble picking colors that mesh well together. I guess I need to be more artistic or something.

First thing I do is look at a painted version of the mini. I actually didn't find that for the model I've been working on so I decided I'd go with a scheme that might fit the character. First off, he looks like a barbarian obviously. I play a lot of MTG, and barbarians in MTG tend to fall under Red so that's what I used as a base. He also reminded me of a Khorne Berserker from GW, and they're all red and gold also.

He also looks like a mountain warrior of sorts which is why I chose a snowy base. He's got fur boots and gloves, but shows a lot of skin. Go figure.

I'm sure there are a few color theory articles out there for determining what color combinations work best.

As fascinating as your little photo-doc of your painting process is...

It seems like you're taking forever on a single mini.


I mean, I understand that the process of painting a good mini is a time expensive process - having done it to a very high level several times myself.

But the whole photo-doc process of yours is making it seem like a super-epic multi-week struggle to get a single mini painted.

I find that quite amusing tbh.

It is amusing.

For single minis I tend to take up to three hours from primed state to completed base. However, because I'm obviously not a fast painter, the result is usually very mediocre by my standards. With this guy I've really taken my time learning and practicing new techniques (washes and feathering thanks to the great link that bloodydrake posted). Also, I only really worked on this guy for maybe 45 minute bursts, usually less. Haven't had much time to devote to painting as I've got lots of other commitments.

And technically, I've only been working on this since Sunday.

 

[bloodydrake]

so my warpwolf kit finally came in.... YAH!

But the 1/8th magnets are still on order...booooo..

I get home and cut open the figure bag lay all the parts out for the 3 configurations ..............
and its missing 3 hands....CRY!

I already went thru this with the store about a token kit that was missing half the fury tokens..they don't do returns on opened purchases..
F**K ME RUNNIN now i gotta see how or if I can get something directly from Privateer Press support, God only knows how long thats gonna take.

What a pain in the ass..that really put a damper on Getting Circle done anytime soon

 

[BattleMonkey]

Privateer has some of the worst packers, always have. I've had to contact PP three times for replacements of missing mini parts over the past five years. Last one was missing shield from a jack that took almost six weeks for them to replace.

 

[nicoga3000]

serious question tho its a side track..whats that all about? is there painting rules for playing in tourneys?

As Leunam said, some tourneys require all of your models to have at least 3 colors on them to be played. Otherwise, yes - you lose points. It makes sense as it promotes the hobby aspect of gaming, but I know some people who just want to play the game and don't go to certain tourneys because of it.

 

[bloodydrake]

appears I was incorrect I'm only missing one hand.
All the other hands are shared..they recommend magnetizing the hands as well as the arms shoulders(who knew).

I think what thru me off was the set comes with 6 arms I assumed it would come with six hands not 4..but welp thats how ya save money I guess.
Luckily I hadn't glued on the hands in the Warpwolf that came with the 2 player battlebox yet, so I can still have enough while waiting for the one hand thats missing to be delivered.

on the plus side 2 deliveries came today.

1.
All legion of everblight figures I ordered from miniature market in the states arrived. ended up being 25dollars cheaper (was 80 including shipping vs 105 from local).
They labeled box as 10dollar gift so guess no worries about duty.

2. Universal Monsters bluray boxset from the amazon.co.uk arrived as well only cost 53dollars vs the 133 amazon.ca wanted for the same diskset.

Looks to be a fun Thanksgiving weekend

 

[BattleMonkey]

So a 2nd Star Trek Tactics set is coming out for Heroclix in January:

The first set was nothing more than rereleases of the same ships from the Fleet Captains Board Game, but now we are seeing some actual new unique sculpts with Cardassian and Dominion ships. The Romulan ships are from the Fleet Captains expansion, but wonder if this means we will see a Dominion War set eventually for that board game. As for Tactics, it is really just Heroclix rules, no differences really and it's compatible with that game line.... so yea you can have an Enterprise fight Gandalf...... or if you want to just play Tactics as it's own game that is always possible. Paint jobs are passable as usual clix vehicles look fine, it's when they do actual people where the paint jobs look like crap.

 

[Leunam]

My poor attempt at NMM this weekend.

Not particularly happy with the axe head. Most of the mini (the body chunk) has no real irregularities besides the typical side effects from the casting process. The arm and axe, however, suffer from a lot of pitting on the axe head and some detail is muddled up in the left hand. I think next time I come across this much pitting on what should be a smooth surface I'm going to give it a few passes of liquid green stuff before I start painting.

On the other hand, the pauldron and gauntlet assembly was fun to paint and I thought it came out well. Nice deep red thanks to a black ink wash and mild highlights to the gold trim. Going to finish tonight hopefully so I can start working on the Infinity stuff right away.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I usually don't mind much defects on fantasy figs and weapons on them. Often kind fits in the more rough fantasy like setting. I tend to be more sloppy with fantasy figs it seems as it doesn't stick out as much as with sci fi stuffs.

Anyways, by the way another interesting kickstarter for a nice looking modular terrain solution is up: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1093338811/medieval-village-for-28mm-gamers

 

[Leunam]

I'm going to throw a lot of money at that kickstarter.

 

[Leunam]

Finished. Now I no longer have to spam the thread.

Awful pictures. I'm going to have to put together a light box so I can get better lit shots.

Anyway, there isn't much to be said that I didn't cover already. Feathering/blending and washes for the skin and red armor. Wash and highlight for the fur. NMM gold and metal for the banding and axe respectively. Drybrushing for the haft and skulls on the belt. The base is made from black lava basing paste, some Citadel basing sand, and Gale Force 9 static grass and snow. Snow was just PVA with snow flock mixed in with the end of a brush. Also used some plasticard brick pattern sheet on the base.

Overall I think this is a good model for practicing different textures and features. Fur, leather wrappings, trim, bone, skin etc. It's particularly great for practicing feathering and blending given the large amount of muscly body that there is to paint.

I'm actually pretty happy with this mini. I'm not particularly good to begin with, but I'm very happy that I got a decent result with the skin, which has always been a problem for me, and I got in some valuable practice with the NMM on an odd surface. I'd like to paint another fantasy mini soon (I've got two other models I want to tackle) but I've got some Infinity stuff that will likely arrive tomorrow so I'm going to focus on that.

Questions, comments, criticisms are always welcome.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I'm going to throw a lot of money at that kickstarter.

Yea considering if and what level to invest in. Looks like it could be easier to work with than the terraclips stuff. Kinda don't care about all the little bitz though being tossed in like the carts, but it adds flair to often bare looking battlegrounds.

 

[nicoga3000]

Finished. Now I no longer have to spam the thread.

Questions, comments, criticisms are always welcome.

Before I say anything, I'd suggest posting this on CMON if you want some harsh (yet VERY helpful) criticism. Those guys are brilliant painters over there. Also, understand that I'm only being picky because that's how you improve.

Worth noting - picture quality may have an impact on my comments. Some of the things I'm pointing out may be moot if the pictures aren't doing it justice.

- You did a great job on the fur. Not much to say there. If I had to be picky, I'd say you could have picked out a few LESS for the white highlight. But overall, excellent.

- NMM isn't easy. You did a good job given the constraints of the model. There is NO other way to get better outside of doing it over and over and over. Learn from examples, try them out, etc. Good work.

- The shaft of the axe is good but almost needs more "pop" to stand out from the flesh. Maybe a black wash or something would have helped? The texture is there, though - that's what's important.

- The flesh is good. Given that the majority of the model is fleshy, it stands out the most. It looks a LITTLE chalky. That's almost always due to using too thick of paint. More layers is ALWAYS better. Like, there is not a single case in painting I can think of where less layers is good (OK - maybe time?). It looks like you could have used a few more THINNER layers to get the smooth transition. Also, while some of the flesh regions look fantastic, some look, I don't know, rushed? Again, I'll blame camera over your painting abilities.

- More on said flesh...The second picture looks incredible. The third and fourth pictures accentuate some of the flaws. I think it has to due with extreme highlighting, really. It may have been the color you decided to use for the final highlight? If it were thinner, it may have come off less harsh.

- Red is a tough color to paint over black. The helmet is slightly streaky due to (what looks like) you trying to use thicker paint to get coverage. Always use more thin coats to get coverage. You can get a FANTASTIC look by simply using lots of thin layers.

Overall, I would say this is an amazing bit of work, especially considering it sounds like it's not your normal painting theme. Don't take my comments too harshly...I don't like giving candy comments. As a painter, you want someone to give you all they can in criticism so you can, you know, improve.

My biggest comment? Thin your paints. If someone tells you that you don't have to, they're wrong. Always thin your paints. You watch ANY painter's tutorials on YouTube and they ALWAYS thin their paint.

 

[BattleMonkey]

If a person is using cheap hobby paints from a hobby store, I would never tell them to thin their paints. They are often thinned enough already.

 

[Leunam]

- The shaft of the axe is good but almost needs more "pop" to stand out from the flesh. Maybe a black wash or something would have helped? The texture is there, though - that's what's important.

I thought of doing the exact same thing when I was finished. I got a nice texture from the base and then the drybrushing but it did look like it lacked some depth. I was thinking brown wash at the time but black would probably yield a better effect.

- The flesh is good. Given that the majority of the model is fleshy, it stands out the most. It looks a LITTLE chalky. That's almost always due to using too thick of paint. More layers is ALWAYS better. Like, there is not a single case in painting I can think of where less layers is good (OK - maybe time?). It looks like you could have used a few more THINNER layers to get the smooth transition. Also, while some of the flesh regions look fantastic, some look, I don't know, rushed? Again, I'll blame camera over your painting abilities.

I think along the back I might have rushed a little more. There isn't much buildup coming from paint due to it being thinned down, but it did affect transitions like you said. I do thin my paints but it doesn't show sometimes by way of streaks and chunkiness. The chalkiness might come from the color choice as the highlight is really bright compared to the layer its on top of.

- More on said flesh...The second picture looks incredible. The third and fourth pictures accentuate some of the flaws. I think it has to due with extreme highlighting, really. It may have been the color you decided to use for the final highlight? If it were thinner, it may have come off less harsh.

Again, yeah down to color choice. I think I made a point about it earlier where I only used three colors for skin where I should have used five. I'm going to grab a few paints tonight and I may just buy new paints solely for skin.

- Red is a tough color to paint over black. The helmet is slightly streaky due to (what looks like) you trying to use thicker paint to get coverage. Always use more thin coats to get coverage. You can get a FANTASTIC look by simply using lots of thin layers.

Yeah definitely a problem here. Funny because the Blood Angels I painted using the same red have much smoother surfaces.

Thanks for the input. I'll be keeping this in mind in the future.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

If a person is using cheap hobby paints from a hobby store, I would never tell them to thin their paints. They are often thinned enough already.

the problem is that they have fuck all for pigment, when watered alot they seperate from the binder and settle all "chalky" looking when they dry.

 

[nicoga3000]

If a person is using cheap hobby paints from a hobby store, I would never tell them to thin their paints. They are often thinned enough already.

I've used the shitty Walmart paints (Apple Barrel or whatever), and I can tell you that they work OK out of bottle, but you will ALWAYS get better results with a little water. It's discretionary of course, but unless the paint you have is as viscous as water, a slight thinning will NOT hurt your model.

I know I sound like a dick, but I say it from experience.

E: Regarding fizzelopeguss's comment...I was going to say, if water spreads your pigment too much, buy a thinning medium instead. OR!

Just don't buy shitty paints.

 

[bloodydrake]

I just wanted to say I enjoyed the whole break down as you go.

Seeing some things being done in stages is great to get a feel how others progress vs just seeing it done and trying to figure out the what they did to get there.

 

[Leunam]

Glad you got a kick out of it. This is the next guy I'm going to paint, but I think I'll do the breakdown in a single large post rather than spam the thread over and over. I really like the color choice they've got here, and I don't paint green often enough, but I've got a scheme in mind that I'm going to use already.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Another Kickstarter ending soon, this time for Judge Dredd Miniature Game: Block Wars - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1990654819/judge-dredd-miniatures-game-block-war

 

[Draxal]

Does anybody play/collect 15 mm sci fi miniatures? Was wondering if people had opinions of the ranges (of the ones I've seen so far I think I like Critical Mass Games's aesthetics the best).