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MLB '12-'13 OffSeason OT: Magic is the New Market Inefficiency

The Elite

The Elite

BOSS
I'm cautiously optimistic for the Jays. If we're not moving Mathis. What are we doing with Buck? We also have D'arnaud in the can as well.
 
C

calder

Member
Quick someone throw some water on me

Toronto now a good AL East bet By Dan Szymborski

Let's start with the premise that Toronto was much better than the 73-win team it was in 2012. The Jays got an amazing year out of Edwin Encarnacion, but outside of Encarnacion, the team wasn't the beneficiary of much in the way of good luck.
...
I asked ZiPS to project Toronto's new acquisitions and the computer likes this trade as much as I do. Jose Reyes projects at .293/.343/.450 and 4.5 WAR in Toronto, which combined with a 2.4 WAR projection for Maicer Izturis over a full season as a starting second baseman, represents a 4-win improvement over the projections for Yunel Escobar and Adeiny Hechavarria, who are reportedly headed to Miami in the trade.

Toronto's rotation looked weak at the start of the season and after a flurry of Tommy John surgeries -- hopefully the Jays got a group discount -- was a smoking wreckage by the end. Buehrle and Johnson project to add 6 wins above replacement, and considering they replace innings likely to be thrown by replacement-level (and possibly worse) pitchers, that's likely 6 net wins, not gross. If Romero's recent elbow surgery fixes him to the point at which he can be just half the pitcher he was in 2011, a front four of Johnson, Buehrle, Romero and Brandon Morrow looks downright good.

Bonifacio and Buck don't provide the same big gains that the other three players in the trade bring, but Buck -- with a more typical season -- is worth a few runs more than J.P. Arencibia and Bonifacio can fake enough positions to provide excellent value as a role player. The Jays still could use a second-tier left fielder to round up the lineup, but GM Alex Anthopoulos has plenty of time left to make an addition there.

So we're looking at a Jays teams that projects to win about 90 games, and while their division rivals in Tampa Bay, Baltimore and New York all won 90 or more regular season games in 2012, none of the three were unstoppable juggernauts and all have real concerns heading into 2013.
...
Click to expand...
A bit overly optimistic? Maybe. I think more it's a case of overestimating the flaws of the AL East contenders, but hell if you can't be overly optimistic in winter why bother. ;)
 
P

ph33nix

MWO
This franchise doesn't seem to understand that wanting to win is the best brand of business. For fucks sake, the Dolphins took for granted the fanbase and loafed around for over a decade. All the Marlins do is this shit over and over.

Since Pat Riley has gotten here he's only accepted winning which is why the Heat have been relevant most of the time he's been around. Maybe the Marlins and Dolphins should take a god damn clue and start making SPORTS decisions.
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
Now I wish Pujols would had been dumb enough to take the Marlins offer last off season. Seeing him right back on the market would had been great.
 
T

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
ph33nix said:
This franchise doesn't seem to understand that wanting to win is the best brand of business. For fucks sake, the Dolphins took for granted the fanbase and loafed around for over a decade. All the Marlins do is this shit over and over.

Since Pat Riley has gotten here he's only accepted winning which is why the Heat have been relevant most of the time he's been around. Maybe the Marlins and Dolphins should take a god damn clue and start making SPORTS decisions.
Click to expand...
Well, at least the Dolphins made a decent decision to draft Tannehill, now they gotta build around him.
 
J

Jon

Member
Don't even know what to say to this bullshit. Loria is a fucking joke. Guys, try to pretend if you were a legitimate Marlins fan. I know that seems impossible, but somewhere, they must exist. I don't know if I would ever be so mad than right now. It's one thing to unload after winning a World Series...it's another thing entirely to drum up enthusiasm with a new stadium and a fairly decent team, only to ditch the whole plan the very next year.

Seriously, contract the Marlins. What a fucking joke.

I hope that team loses 140 games next year.

Mike Stanton must be licking his chops for free agency at this point.
 
M

McNei1y

Member
Jon said:
Don't even know what to say to this bullshit. Loria is a fucking joke. Guys, try to pretend if you were a legitimate Marlins fan. I know that seems impossible, but somewhere, they must exist. I don't know if I would ever be so mad than right now. It's one thing to unload after winning a World Series...it's another thing entirely to drum up enthusiasm with a new stadium and a fairly decent team, only to ditch the whole plan the very next year.

Seriously, contract the Marlins. What a fucking joke.

I hope that team loses 140 games next year.
Click to expand...

I hope everyone in that FO goes to jail.
 
J

jbug617

Banned
matthewwhatever said:
The Marlins must be trolling the Jays. "Yeah, you can have Buerhle, Reyes and Johnson. Bonifacio, too. But *snicker* we want Mathis!"

Seriously, why would anyone take Mathis over Arencibia?!
Click to expand...

I don't know how much money Marlins are kicking in. So maybe they didn't have a choice.
 
T

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
Jon said:
Don't even know what to say to this bullshit. Loria is a fucking joke. Guys, try to pretend if you were a legitimate Marlins fan. I know that seems impossible, but somewhere, they must exist. I don't know if I would ever be so mad than right now. It's one thing to unload after winning a World Series...it's another thing entirely to drum up enthusiasm with a new stadium and a fairly decent team, only to ditch the whole plan the very next year.

Seriously, contract the Marlins. What a fucking joke.

I hope that team loses 140 games next year.

Mike Stanton must be licking his chops for free agency at this point.
Click to expand...
This corrupt fucking team...
 
J

Jon

Member
Seriously, I am still angry about this, and I am not even a Marlins fan. I can't even laugh at this.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
PLAN AND SIMPLE!

LOL I wonder if the package the Dodgers sent to Boston might have gotten those players from Florida? I think I'd rather have Reyes/Johnson/Buerle over Gonzalez/Crawford/Beckett. Actually, seeing those players written out like that, i'd MUCH rather have the haul Toronto is getting. Anyone know how the prospects Toronto is trading compare to the ones the Dodgers sent?
 
M

McNei1y

Member
Jon said:
Seriously, I am still angry about this, and I am not even a Marlins fan. I can't even laugh at this.
Click to expand...

It's really disturbing that such a move could be made in sports. A team that just spent millions of dollars last off season, just made a huge trade... for the third time this year. Loria should be shit canned. He's fucking over an entire city. And it pretty much fucks over the MLB since they just had a relocation project only a year ago... so you can't really move them when they lose all their fans in a year or two.
 
Q

Quick

Banned
I like that TSN keeps using the clip of AA walking towards Paul Beeston, who's holding a plate full of food for any sort of Jays coverage.
 
F

Fenix

Member
Wow, this trade must be huge, SportsCentre led off with it!

I wonder when they would have gotten to it if there was a hockey season.
 
J

Jon

Member
cashman said:
c'mon, this is some pretty funny stuff
Click to expand...

It would be funny if it were the Yankees, or the Red Sox. Not from some asshole who already called his fanbase stupid, and then treats them as such just to make money from marketing and television contracts. Honestly, I think the only thing that is keeping the league from considering taking action against Loria is the fact that the Marlins have won two World Series' in similar fashion, but this is taking it to an entirely new level.
 
R

Rafa=FedKilla

Banned
Jon said:
It would be funny if it were the Yankees, or the Red Sox. Not from some asshole who already called his fanbase stupid, and then treats them as such just to make money from marketing and television contracts. Honestly, I think the only thing that is keeping the league from considering taking action against Loria is the fact that the Marlins have won two World Series' in similar fashion, but this is taking it to an entirely new level.
Click to expand...
The league won't do anything, Loria and Selig are in cahoots. They conspired and racketeered to kill the Expos.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
FINALIZED 12-PLAYER TRADE DETAILS

Blue Jays GET:
-- $4 million in cash considerations
-- IF/OF Emilio Bonafacio
-- C John Buck
-- LHP Mark Buehrle
-- RHP Josh Johnson
-- SS Jose Reyes

Marlins GET:
-- RHP Henderson Alvarez
-- RHP Anthony DeSclafani
-- SS Yunel Escobar
-- IF Adeiny Hechavarria
-- OF Jake Marisnick
-- C Jeff Mathis
-- LHP Justin Nicolino
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Mr. Enigma said:
FINALIZED 12-PLAYER TRADE DETAILS

Blue Jays GET:
-- #4 million in cash considerations
-- IF/OF Emilio Bonafacio
-- C John Buck
-- LHP Mark Buehrle
-- RHP Josh Johnson
-- SS Jose Reyes

Marlins GET:
-- RHP Henderson Alvarez
-- RHP Anthony DeSclafani
-- SS Yunel Escobar
-- IF Adeiny Hechavarria
-- OF Jake Marisnick
-- C Jeff Mathis
-- LHP Justin Nicolino
Click to expand...

1) I'm still stunned...a little disappointed about losing Hechavarria and Marisnick, but I think Reyes/Buehrle/Johnson is more than enough to offset that.

2) I have a feeling that when Stanton reaches free agency, it's going to be like in cartoons, when someone leaves so quickly you just see a blurred outline where they used to be.

3) Now AA just has to, say, trade Arencibia+ fror Dickey, and find a solution in LF, and 2013 is looking pretty good.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
They aren't trading Stanton only because he's still renewable and not arb eligible yet. After 2013 though, he's probably on the move.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Miami tax dollars at work, waiting for Stanton's farewell
Click to expand...

If he really is on the block I would love to see Seattle throw something at them..
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Mr. Enigma said:
They aren't trading Stanton only because he's still renewable and not arb eligible yet. After 2013 though, he's probably on the move.
Click to expand...

Just depends if they feel like running at a WS again.
 
F

Fenix

Member
The Marlins are gonna have a hell of a time signing any big name FAs after this, given their no NTC policy.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
rando14 said:
Yeah like Eternal said, I don't think he's available until 2013. By then the Mega Mariners will have signed Hamilton to 10/275 and Swisher to 7/126
Click to expand...

Yeah the Mariners have never been like the Rangers in that regards, but nice try at a troll..


I will give you 3.5/10
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Fenix said:
The Marlins are gonna have a hell of a time signing any big name FAs after this, given their no NTC policy.
Click to expand...

Players love the Marlins, tho.. only hurt with Albert
 
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