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[Doytch]

Congratulations, Major League Baseball, you just screwed every team that doesn’t have the capability of running out a $100+ million payroll, and you just made winning a lot more about Major League payroll size than anything else. In the name of cost reduction, you just made it even less likely that teams like Tampa Bay or Oakland will be able to build long term winners. This agreement will set competitive balance back significantly, and now our only hope is that the damage is so obvious that these changes get repealed as quickly as possible.

Holy crap, I totally agree with Dave Cameron.

This new CBA is a joke.

 

[eznark]

Not really. Offensively they were pretty much equal and Kemp plays CF as opposed to LF. And even if Kemp isn't great in CF, you are on the record as saying Braun isn't the greatest in LF.

It's not a big deal, though.

I'd consider "jobbed" as one being the obvious choice over the other. The two playing different positions in the outfield doesn't really do it for me in terms of making it a clear slight especially since Kemp isn't some spectacular defensive player. He's slightly above average.

I think Kemp deserved it if you are an Orthodox Nerd. I think Braun deserved it because I am a motherfucking homer!

 

[yankeehater]

Holy crap, I totally agree with Dave Cameron.

This new CBA is a joke.

Is this because of the rookie pool? I dont get why people keep saying small market teams wont be able to sign their draft picks now. Unproven players will just have to sign for less now which is good for everyone except fucking agents.

 

[Dmncnby2k9]

Holy crap, I totally agree with Dave Cameron.

This new CBA is a joke.

They should have done the caps using team payroll. So teams like the Yanks and Red Sox would be limited and teams like the Rays could spend without limits.

 

[clemenx]

Is this because of the rookie pool? I dont get why people keep saying small market teams wont be able to sign their draft picks now. Unproven players will just have to sign for less now which is good for everyone except fucking agents.

They won't sign for less. They will go play football. At least the HS talent.

 

[captmcblack]

Where can I read about the new CBA details?

The way people are posting in here, it seems like it's written and ratified by Hitler or something. Is the only thing that sucks the draft stuff?

 

[yankeehater]

They won't sign for less. They will go play football. At least the HS talent.

That is fine if that is what people do, but the players that do sign to play baseball will get less which is the most important thing. No more JD Drews.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

 

[Dmncnby2k9]

That is fine if that is what people do, but the players that do sign to play baseball will get less which is the most important thing. No more JD Drews.

That's bad man. Means even less amateur talent to choose from.

 

[yankeehater]

Right but if teams dont have to break the bank on players who are going to bust before even making the big leagues in most cases, I would think that is a good trade.

 

[eznark]

 

[CajoleJuice]

There's also the international signing cap, right?

 

[Dmncnby2k9]

There's also the international signing cap, right?

Yea and I was reading a worldwide draft might be possible by 2014.

 

[eznark]

I was really hoping a more firm slotting tax would come with the ability to trade picks.

 

[Malo]

So they put a cap on the draft and international signings? Wtf MLB and you still can't trade draft picks. Hopefully this gets rectified in the next cba *sigh*

 

[rekameohs]

Nice to see Miguel Montero get some recognition, though it's lol for an MVP vote.

He really improved into one of the better defensive catchers out there last season, and he'll continue to be a threat with his bat.

 

[clemenx]

Yea and I was reading a worldwide draft might be possible by 2014.

They didn't learn from Puerto Rico? That would be the stupidest thing ever, unless they're trying to lure Latins away from the game.

 

[Dmncnby2k9]

They didn't learn from Puerto Rico? That would be the stupidest thing ever, unless they're trying to lure Latins away from the game.

Me n my co-worker always talk about PR. Baseball is almost completely dead there, thanks to the draft.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Like it wasn't already shitty enough for small market teams. At least the Royals unveiled the changes to the 2012 uniforms today, and they're good.

 

[Lambtron]

I think Kemp deserved it if you are an Orthodox Nerd.

Not going to disagree, I am a nerd.

I do agree the CBA is a far worse injustice. If they're going to punish teams for spending over an arbitrary limit, why not make it the luxury tax threshhold? The Yankees and Phillies and Red Sox of the world can spend freely, but the Pirates, Rays, etc. of the world lose draft picks for spending too much in the draft? To try to build a winner that way? Awful.

 

[Doytch]

Right but if teams dont have to break the bank on players who are going to bust before even making the big leagues in most cases, I would think that is a good trade.

"Break the bank?" Are you mental? The teams that went balls-out in spending still spent significantly less on all their picks than Ryan Howard is going to make in one year.

And why do fans like you always try and side with the big bad greedy owners (who are multi-billionaires) instead of some hick 18-year-old from Kansas or poor-as-in-my-parents-can't-afford-electricity-or-to-send-me-to-school 16-year-old from Venezuela? Friggin America. </rant>

I was really hoping a more firm slotting tax would come with the ability to trade picks.

You can apparently trade draft spending allocations, but a team can only gain up to 50% of their original allotment.

 

[ConradCervantes]

Called that shit, foos!!!!

 

[eznark]

You can apparently trade draft spending allocations, but a team can only gain up to 50% of their original allotment.

haha, what an absurdly opaque solution. Draft Tax Credits. Retarded.

 

[captmcblack]

I guess the argument is that you can't write provisions in a ruleset that is supposed to apply equally to all teams to specifically affect only a few teams.

...or something like that. I dunno...I'm just trying to make sense of the issue, I guess. I see that it sucks for small-market teams who want to get their hands on some primo international players or draftees cheaper than if they'd have to sign them as free agents, but at least that rule hurts every team looking to do that, right?

 

[jakncoke]

http://www.piratesprospects.com/201...-were-forever-eliminated-from-contention.html

Forever fucked.

 

[eznark]

http://www.piratesprospects.com/201...-were-forever-eliminated-from-contention.html

Forever fucked.

My gut reaction was that this would make most of the CBA slotting stuff moot:

If you’re thinking that teams can just get around this type of scenario by handing out a major league deal, think again. Major League deals are no longer an option for draft picks under the new CBA. This ends deals like the one Trevor Bauer received, where the UCLA right hander signed a major league deal worth upwards of $7 M, with a $3.4 M signing bonus, only $400 K above slot.

Guess not.

 

[captmcblack]

So I guess teams will have to spend money on free agents now?

 

[clemenx]

I'd rather teams pocketing that money now.

Yay! let's spend less on drafting young talent so we can overpay MORE washed up veterans!!

 

[Windu]

You can probably thank John schierholtz for this shit, he is on that special committee and has selig's ear. The braves have not gone over slot in a while. We do spend a lot on international players though.

Edit: international bonuses are capped at 1.8 mil for successful teams. Oh wtf. Well so much for that market. Luckily, the braves have some of the best scouts and development people around.

I'd consider "jobbed" as one being the obvious choice over the other. The two playing different positions in the outfield doesn't really do it for me in terms of making it a clear slight especially since Kemp isn't some spectacular defensive player. He's slightly above average.

I think Kemp deserved it if you are an Orthodox Nerd. I think Braun deserved it because I am a motherfucking homer!

Average in center is probably plus on the corners.

 

[eznark]

Average in center is probably plus on the corners.

Probably.

Not collapsing in two of the five months you play is probably more "valuable" than disappearing for those two months.

 

[Lambtron]

I'd rather teams pocketing that money now.

Yay! let's spend less on drafting young talent so we can overpay MORE washed up veterans!!

No kidding. If the CJ Wilsons & AJ Burnetts of the world are going to command $15+ million a year salaries, why in the hell would teams take that risk?

 

[Windu]

UPDATE: Here are more details around how the Signing Bonus Pool works within the Draft:
The range of the Signing Bonus Pool is from $4.5 million-$11.5 million.
The more picks a club has, the larger the pool becomes that the club will have to work with.
The size of the pools will standardize more from club to club after next year’s class of free agents.
The size of the pools will be dependent on the number of picks a club has in a given year and where those picks fall within each round. A club with the first pick of the Draft will have the largest pool.
Source: MLB
Here are the details of the new 5-year labor deal just announced by MLB and the MLBPA:
I.. TERM
a. Five-year contract
b. December 1, 2016 termination date
II.. SCHEDULING,, REALIGNMENT,, AND POSTSEASON PLAY
a. Beginning no later than the 2013 Postseason, Postseason play will be expanded for the first
time since 1995. A second Wild Card will be awarded to the Club in each league with the
second-best overall record among Clubs that do not win a division. The two Wild Card Clubs
will play a single Postseason game, the winner of which will advance to the Division Series. A
decision on adding two Wild Cards for 2012 will be made no later than March 1, 2012.
b. The Houston Astros will move to the American League West starting in 2013, creating two
leagues of 15 Clubs each.
c. Starting in 2013, Interleague games will be played throughout the entire schedule, rather than
exclusively in specific inter-league segments.
d. Active Roster limits will be expanded to 26 for certain regular or split doubleheaders.
III.. RESERVE SYSTEM INCLUDING AMATEUR PLAYERS
a. Free Agency
1. All eligible Players will become free agents as of the end of the World Series, with no
election required, and the “quiet period” will be five days.
2. The tender date will be December 2 beginning in 2012.
3. Article XX(B) free agents signing minor league contracts who are not added to the
Opening Day roster or unconditionally released 5 days prior to Opening Day shall receive
an additional $100,000 retention bonus and the right to opt out on June 1.
b. Draft Pick Compensation
1. Starting in 2012, “Type A” and “Type B” free agents and the use of the Elias ranking
system will be eliminated.
2. The current system of draft pick compensation will be replaced with the following
system:
A. Only Players who have been with their Clubs for the entire season will be subject
to compensation.
B. A free agent will be subject to compensation if his former Club offers him a
guaranteed one-year contract with a salary equal to the average salary of the
125-highest paid Players from the prior season. The offer must be made at the
end of the five-day free agent “quiet period,” and the Player will have seven days
to accept the offer.
C. A Club that signs a player subject to compensation will forfeit its first round
selection, unless it selects in the top 10, in which case it will forfeit its secondhighest
selection in the draft.
D. The Player’s former Club will receive a selection at the end of the first round
beginning after the last regularly scheduled selection in the round. The former
Clubs will select based on reverse order of winning percentage from the prior championship season.
c. Salary Arbitration Eligibility
1. The percentage of players with two years of service who will be arbitration eligible will
be increased from the top 17% to the top 22% in terms of service.
2. All players tied at the 22% cutoff will be eligible for arbitration.
d. Minimum Salaries
1. Major League will increase from $414,000 in 2011 to: $480,000 in 2012; $490,000 in
2013; and $500,000 in 2014; COLA in 2015 and 2016.
2. Minor League will increase from $67,300 in 2011 to: $78,250 in 2012; $79,900 in 2013;
and $81,500 in 2014; COLA in 2015 and 2016.
e. Rule 4 Draft
1. The draft will continue to be conducted in June, but the signing deadline will be moved
to a date between July 12 and July 18 depending on the date of the All-Star Game.
2. Drafted players may only sign Minor League contracts.
3. Signing Bonus Pools
A. Each Club will be assigned an aggregate Signing Bonus Pool prior to each draft.
For the purpose of calculating the Signing Bonus Pools, each pick in the first 10
rounds of the draft has been assigned a value. (These values will grow each year
with the rate of growth of industry revenue.) A Club’s Signing Bonus Pool equals
the sum of the values of that Club’s selections in the first 10 rounds of the draft.
Players selected after the 10th round do not count against a Club’s Signing
Bonus Pool if they receive bonuses up to $100,000. Any amounts paid in excess
of $100,000 will count against the Pool.
B. Clubs that exceed their Signing Bonus Pools will be subject to penalties as
follows:
Excess of Pool Penalty (Tax on Overage/Draft Picks)
0-5% 75% tax on overage
5-10% 75% tax on overage and loss of 1st round pick
10-15% 100% tax on overage and loss of 1st and 2nd round picks
15%+ 100% tax on overage and loss of 1st round picks in next two drafts
4. Proceeds generated by the tax will be distributed to payee Clubs under the Revenue Sharing
Plan that do not exceed their Signing Bonus Pools. Draft picks that are forfeited by Clubs will
be awarded to other Clubs through a lottery in which a Club’s odds of winning will be based
on its prior season’s winning percentage and its prior season’s revenue. Only Clubs that do
not exceed their Signing Bonus Pools are eligible for the lottery.
5. Competitive Balance Lottery
A. For the first time, Clubs with the lowest revenues and in the smallest markets will
have an opportunity to obtain additional draft picks through a lottery.
B. The ten Clubs with the lowest revenues, and the ten Clubs in the smallest
markets, will be entered into a lottery for the six draft selections immediately
following the completion of the first round of the draft. A Club’s odds of winning
the lottery will be based on its prior season’s winning percentage.
C. The eligible Clubs that did not receive one of the six selections after the first
round, and all other payee Clubs under the Revenue Sharing Plan, will be
entered into a second lottery for the six picks immediately following the
completion of the second round of the draft. A Club’s odds of winning the
lottery will be based on its prior season’s winning percentage.
D. Picks awarded in the Competitive Balance Lottery may be assigned by a Club,
subject to certain restrictions.
E. Top 200 prospects will be subject to a pre-draft drug test and will participate in a
pre-draft medical program.
f. International Talent Acquisition
1. By December 15, 2011, the parties will form an International Talent Committee to
discuss the development and acquisition of international players, including the potential
inclusion of international amateur players in a draft or in multiple drafts.
2. For the 2012-13 signing season, each Club will be allocated an equal Signing Bonus
Pool.
3. For each signing period after 2012-13, Clubs will be allocated different Signing Bonus
Pools, based on reverse order of winning percentage the prior championship season
(i.e., the Club with the lowest winning percentage the prior season shall receive the
largest Pool).
4. Bonus Regulation of International Amateur Players
A. Beginning in the 2013-2014 signing period (July 2, 2013 - June 15, 2014), Clubs
may trade a portion of their Signing Bonus Pool, subject to certain restrictions.
B. Clubs that exceed their Signing Bonus Pools will be subject to the following
penalties in the 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 signing periods:
Excess of Pool Penalty (Tax on Overage/Draft Picks)
• 0-5% - 75% tax
• 5-10% - 75% tax and loss of right to provide more than one player in the next signing period with a bonus in excess of $500,000.
• 10-15% - 100% tax and loss of right to provide any player in the next signing period with a bonus in excess of $500,0000.
15%+ 100% tax and loss of right to provide any player in the next signing period with a bonus in excess of $250,000.
C. The penalties for exceeding the Signing Bonus Pool will increase beginning with
the 2014-2015 signing period if a draft or drafts is not agreed to by July 2014.
5. All international amateur players must register with the Scouting Bureau to be eligible to
sign, and the top 100 prospects will be subject to a drug test.
6. The Office of the Commissioner and the Union will form a joint committee to assist
international players with their transition to educational/vocational programs after their
baseball careers are over.
IV.. REVENUE SHARING
a. The net transfer value of the Revenue Sharing Plan will be the same as the current plan. Net
transfer amounts will continue to grow with revenue and changes in disparity.
b. The fifteen Clubs in the largest markets will be disqualified from receiving revenue sharing by
2016. The revenue sharing funds that would have been distributed to the disqualified Clubs will
be refunded to the payor Clubs, except that payor Clubs that have exceeded the CBT threshold
two or more consecutive times will forfeit some or all of their refund.
c. The Commissioner’s Discretionary Fund will increase from $10 to $15 million per year.
V.. COMPETITIVE BALANCE TAX
a. The threshold level of $178 million in 2011 will remain unchanged in 2012 and 2013. The
threshold will increase to $189 million for 2014, 2015, and 2016.
b. The tax rate will decrease to 17.5% for Clubs that exceed the threshold for the first time, and
the rate will increase to 50% for Clubs that exceed the threshold for the fourth time or more.
Rates will remain the same for Clubs that exceed the threshold for the second time (30%) and
third time (40%). The CBT rates in 2012 will be subject to a transition rule.
c. The Competitive Balance Tax structure under the 2006 Basic Agreement will be modified so that
a team that moves below the threshold will be treated as going over for the first time when it
next exceeds the threshold.
VI.. DEBT SERVICE RULE
a. The Debt Service Rule will be maintained, but the default EBITDA multiplier has been lowered
from ten to eight, and from fifteen to twelve for Clubs incurring stadium-related debt in the first
ten years of a new or renovated stadium.
b. Debt of a Club’s owner or related party will be covered by the Debt Service Rule if the debt is
serviced, in whole or in part, using Club funds or assets.
c. Debt Service Rule certification process for new ownership has been modified.
VII.. BENEFIT PLAN
a. Players will continue to receive the maximum allowable pension benefit under IRS rules.
b. Owners will make a $184.5 million annual contribution.
c. Waiting periods for life insurance and disability insurance for active players have been
eliminated.
d. Pension benefits and life insurance benefits for certain classes of retired players and widows
have been improved.
e. The payments to the former non-vested players that began in 2011 will continue for the term of
the Basic Agreement.
f. Access to health coverage has been improved for international players and their families.
g. Health care benefits have been improved while managed care initiatives have been introduced
to help with costs.
VIII.. HEALTH AND SAFETY
a. Players, managers, and coaches will be prohibited from using smokeless tobacco during
televised interviews and Club appearances. In addition, at any time when fans are permitted in
the ballpark, players, managers and coaches must conceal tobacco products (including
packages and tins), and may not carry tobacco products in their uniforms or on their bodies.
Individuals who violate the policy will be subject to discipline. The parties also agreed upon an
extensive program of education and public outreach regarding the dangers of smokeless
tobacco.
b. The parties agreed on a program of mandatory evaluation by a trained professional for Players
who are suspected of an alcohol use problem (including Players who are arrested for DWI or
other crimes involving alcohol), and for players who are arrested for crimes involving the use of
force or violence.
c. The parties agreed that no new players will be permitted to use a low density maple bat during
the term of the agreement.
d. By 2013, all Major League players will wear a new batting helmet developed by Rawlings that
protects against pitches thrown at 100 miles per hour. The new version of the helmet is
significantly less “bulky” than prior versions of the more protective helmet.
e. The concussion policy that was implemented prior to the 2011 season has been improved and
will remain in effect for the duration of the Basic Agreement.
IX.. DRUG PROGRAM
Commencing in Spring Training 2012, all players will be subject to hGH blood testing for reasonable cause at
all times during the year. In addition, during each year, all players will be tested during Spring Training.
Starting with the 2012-2013 off-season, players will be subject to random unannounced testing for hGH. The
parties have also agreed on a process to jointly study the possibility of expanding blood testing to include inseason
collections.
X.. OTHER
a. Participation in the All-Star Game will be required unless the Player is unable to play due to
injury or is otherwise excused by the Office of the Commissioner. Players Trust will receive an
increased contribution and players will receive additional benefits.
b. All Players will be subject to a policy governing the use of Social Media.
c. Weekend waivers during the regular season will be implemented beginning in 2012.
d. The parties will agree upon a comprehensive international play plan in which Clubs and Player
will visit countries in which games have not been staged in the past.
e. Non-discrimination protections based on sexual orientation were added to Article XV.
f. Instant Replay will be expanded to include fair/foul and “trapped” ball plays, subject to the
Office of the Commissioner’s discussions with the World Umpires Association.
g. Modifications to Fourth Option and Outright Assignment rules.
h. The parties agreed to an improved process for challenging official scorer decisions.

http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?...r-labor-agreement&catid=30:mlb-news&Itemid=42

 

[MikeTyson]

Indians sign Sizemore (deal could be done by tonight).

 

[darkside31337]

One of the craziest wrinkles in the CBA that nobody is talking about are Cubans under the age of 23 counting against the International cap. Besides the insane discrimination by singling out Cubans and International players (how the hell would THAT hold up in a court?) my paranoia says reverse birth fiasco in the making. Falsify birth certificates to turn a 21 year old into a 23 year old in order to be able to pay a player more and sign him.

This CBA just shows the complete absurdity of a group of union members "representing" the interests of amateurs who aren't actually part of the union. The union actually did their job, the players in the union got some nice perks (dramatic increase in major league salaries) while MLB shoots themselves in the foot and throws the non-union members under the proverbial bus.

 

[jman2050]

This new CBA is all sorts of screwed up. I think Dave Cameron is a useless blowhard but he's right on the money here.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Just to distract from all the horror that is the new CBA, I cannot help but laugh at the picture chosen for B. Colon on his Wikipedia page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolo_Colon

 

[yankeehater]

"Break the bank?" Are you mental? The teams that went balls-out in spending still spent significantly less on all their picks than Ryan Howard is going to make in one year.

And why do fans like you always try and side with the big bad greedy owners (who are multi-billionaires) instead of some hick 18-year-old from Kansas or poor-as-in-my-parents-can't-afford-electricity-or-to-send-me-to-school 16-year-old from Venezuela? Friggin America. </rant>


You can apparently trade draft spending allocations, but a team can only gain up to 50% of their original allotment.

As much as people want to hammer Howard, and he has definitely fallen off, at least he did something in the big leagues before he got paid. I hate the idea of unproven players get big money in any sport. I also hope this will stop these players from holding out and just going back into the draft. I couldnt care less about the owners, I just hate that players who were just drafted could hold up a team. Thanks to the slotting system hopefully no player will ever be able to hold out again after being drafted.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

As much as people want to hammer Howard, and he has definitely fallen off, at least he did something in the big leagues before he got paid. I hate the idea of unproven players get big money in any sport. I also hope this will stop these players from holding out and just going back into the draft. I couldnt care less about the owners, I just hate that players who were just drafted could hold up a team. Thanks to the slotting system hopefully no player will ever be able to hold out again after being drafted.

Still bitter about J.D. Drew?

 

[yankeehater]

Still bitter about J.D. Drew?

I will always hate him for the way he did things, but it is way more then just him. The best thing to come out of the new NFL CBA was the rookie cap, and I think it is great that baseball is trying to do the same thing. I cant stand the idea of guys who are just drafted making more money then established players.

 

[Sanjuro]

Or Francona.

There is a part of me which still believes it could be some strange re-signing where he does return. Seen stranger things happen around here.

Red Sox have asked today again for Toronto to reconsider their stance on talking to Farrell.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

Marlins have acquired P Wade LeBlanc from the Padres in exchange for C John Baker.

 

[CygnusXS]

Question for MLB-Age:

If you guys had to choose between this CBA as it is, or an extended labour stoppage with a better CBA in the outcome, which would you choose?

 

[Dmncnby2k9]

Question for MLB-Age:

If you guys had to choose between this CBA as it is, or an extended labour stoppage with a better CBA in the outcome, which would you choose?

Ill take the current CBA. Lockout affecting the season are the worse man. This one ain't that bad. I need my baseball fix!

 

[Mr. Enigma]

Question for MLB-Age:

If you guys had to choose between this CBA as it is, or an extended labour stoppage with a better CBA in the outcome, which would you choose?

Work stoppages do more damage than anything. It's not even a question.

 

[jakncoke]

Question for MLB-Age:

If you guys had to choose between this CBA as it is, or an extended labour stoppage with a better CBA in the outcome, which would you choose?

I'd let the baseball world burn to the ground if that means the Pirates can go back to over slotting to get talent through the draft

 

[eznark]

Question for MLB-Age:

If you guys had to choose between this CBA as it is, or an extended labour stoppage with a better CBA in the outcome, which would you choose?

Seems like a pretty obvious question. The owners could enslave all players for all I fucking care as long as the players keep dancing for me.

I haven't heard any grumbling from owners of small market teams yet so I'm reserving judgement. These things never, ever play out like we assume they will.

Participation in the All-Star Game will be required unless the player is injured or is excused by the Commissioner's office.

All players will be subject to a policy regarding the use of social media. (Might be called the "Tony Plush Rule.").

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Mr. Enigma]

The owners wanted all the draft money restrictions.

 

[eznark]

The owners wanted all the draft money restrictions.

If it destroys small market teams as the Chicken Little's claim it does, then there would certainly have been dissension among many owners. Especially a guy like Attanassio who basically just bought the Brewers for fun and has been quick to criticize other arrangements he feels are bad for smaller market teams.

 

[Windu]

i'd say the players probably wanted it more, they want money going into FA, not the draft.

 

[Sanjuro]

Question for MLB-Age:

If you guys had to choose between this CBA as it is, or an extended labour stoppage with a better CBA in the outcome, which would you choose?

Out of the four major sports, MLB is the only one that simply can't afford to have a work stoppage. So, no.